Control or Combo Slaver, Which one and Why?

[The Hamburgler]

Pepsi or Coke?  Transformers or Gobots? Workshop Slaver or Control Slaver? All of these predicaments have aroused questions, problems and a difficulty of choosing one or the other. The real dilemma to be focused on in this article is Workshop Slaver or Control Slaver. Both have their own strengths and weaknesses. However, this isn’t a mathematical sequence (sorry Dr. Sylvan) because there are too many undefined variables involved. Maybe neither is better, except one would fit better in a certain environment than the other. To find out, we must dig further down the rabbit hole (Neo) and venture to areas unspecified but prior The Mana Drain members.

Workshop Slaver
A fast broken deck that relies on tempo to get the broken started and compiled. Workshop Slaver, alike most other combo oriented decks, can out-broken aggro and lay down fatties like Pentavus and (S) Memnarch early on. The deck has a second edge against control, with running generally four main decked Chalice of the Void and enough draw to over accumulate their progression. It is generally suggested in area’s with seldom hate, as it falls face front to a resolved Null Rod. It has a weakness against faster combo, but since combo is at an all time low currently no fret is intended. I know the deck uses Force of Will and Chalice of the Void as a backup against threats such as Null Rod, Damping Matrix, Memnarch, Gorilla Shaman, Root Maze and even Nevinyrral’s Disk. The deck is weaker than control Slaver against decks that play a lot of hate, such as Gay/ R. Although Workshop Slaver runs main deck Chalice of the Void and Force of Will, it can’t outrace solid counter back up and Cunning Wish for back up hate. Without further ado, I present the matches for Workshop based Slaver.

Aggro/ Hybrid Match up (Oshawa, Madness, TnT and Fish/ Landstill based decks)

The Big “O”
I have been having trouble with the Big “O” match up. In the first game it has main deck Null Rod and more than likely Root Maze, and game two you get the shaft in the sideboard while he brings in direct artifact destruction, Tormod’s Crypt and Ground Seal. The best plan is to outrace the opponent and get a fatty or broken out as soon as possible. Root Maze makes getting a solid Goblin Welder method going a faint dream, and is finally dwarfed by Ground Seal. I find Memnarch to be not as rendered useless as people say in this match up. With a Tolarian Academy out, stealing opponents Arrogant Wurms and swinging for eight a turn sounds like a plan. Along with that theory, Memnarch has one more toughness than any creature in the deck, making it an effective wall until you get overrun.

Madness
Being faster than Oshawa, it can be rigorous to tame the deck when overrun with Wurms and ‘Wallas. It does lack the amount of hate that Oshawa has that makes the deck so resilient, so it is tamable in early games. Draws sevens are side boarded out game two, as it helps them too much. Slavering them is fairly useful, you can pitch their hand to Wild Mongrel and use Deep Analysis to your advantage. This isn’t the match up to worry about.

TnT (Tools and Tubbies)
Although it can’t pack so much hate against Slaver as it would like due to the deck using similar based cards, it can get some ridiculous first turn Juggernauts or Su-Chi. Goblin Welder is quite the tool in this match up, as it can play with opposing Juggernauts and especially Su-Chi, turning it into an every turn life loss. Like every opposing deck that runs Goblin Welder, it can be used to your advantage, as it can Welder your own Mindslaver back in, creating a solid lock on your opponent. You can use Triskelion to kill himself or Survival of the Fittest to get rid of all his threats when he is under slaver. Artifact Mutation is very annoying and loses a lot of well-achieved tempo on the rise. It has a lot of juicy targets such as dormant Mindslavers, Gilded Lotus, Memnarch and Platinum Angel.

Fish/ Landstill biased decks
It is very dependant on getting an early Pentavus especially, or getting a constant Slaver lock going. This is definitely not the deck to play in an area with abundant masses of Fish and Landstill, as it has so much main deck hate. Blood Moon is the best option to sideboard in, and then go for early large beat down. Saving Force of Will for Null Rod is a good plan, as it is probably more tedious in disrupting your plans than any other card droppable on second turn. These two are definitely my worst matches; they both have answers to Goblin Welders, Mindslaver and can accumulate manlands until they can stick it to the tubbies. The whole key to this match up and most other control-based decks is card advantage. If you can keep a seven-card hand throughout the game, and then unload on an unsuspecting opponent, it will be a shock how fast the game can turn around. That is the deck at it’s best in these treacherous match ups.

Control Matches (Hulk/ GAT, Keeper and Control Slaver)

Hulk/ GAT
Very possibly the best match up for the deck. There are simply too many ways for a resolved and activated Mindslaver can interfere with the decks plans. Any deck that runs Psychatog has to be prepared to discard his hand and remove the graveyard with no devastating effect on your life total. Blood Moon is the ace in the board for most builds in my area, but it can differ between Red Elemental Blast and even Triskelion, depending on the favorite or most common builds at the time. Once again, an easy matchup, play it like the combo it is and resolve and activate an early Mindslaver generally ends the game.

Keeper
Packs a lot of main deck and Cunning Wishable targets that can wreck your day. Among these Gorilla Shaman, SB artifact hate, Damping Matrix and Swords to Plowshares. Damping Matrix doesn’t faze me as much as the usual opponent who would offer to shake hands. Mana Disruption that slows the deck down and loses it’s tempo are much more effective, obviously I mean it’s primary contender Null Rod. The key to this match up is obtaining card advantage through Thirst for Knowledge, Brainstorm and the most effective Library of Alexandria. Side boarding is tuff, Blood Moon and Red Elemental Blasts are the most ample targets, but different builds of keeper may apt your decisions.

Control Slaver
Possibly third in the toughest matches category. Most builds run SB or MD Gorilla Shaman, obviously Goblin Welder and counters to be a nuisance and kinder the broken. They get the most advantage of draw sevens due to Yawgmoth’s Will being ridiculously broken, and is set up for the win in the end more often than surprising. It has just as many draw effects than you, if not more. Making it not as easy to out-race, as normal control would be. As well as the usual threats, it uses Fire/Ice, an effective way to cure your opponent of your Welders on the board.

Combo (Dragon, DeathLong, Belcher and Food Chain Goblins)

Dragon
A not so hard match up game two and three, but generally a loss game one. Most of the time, the deck will just win turn one or two. In game two you get sideboard options like Tormod’s Crypt and against some builds Red Elemental Blast or Blood Moon. Chalice of the Void and Force of Will can help along in slowing the combo down enough to get a slaver on them. Against mono black Dragon I prefer dropping Chalice for one if possible first turn. It stops Dark Ritual and more importantly, Duress. Which allows you to play Force of Will and live for a turn or two, so a plan can be mustered.

DeathLong/ Goblin Charbelcher
Sadly, I could only snag a game against the deck when an off-caper came in town so my knowledge of the deck is a mirror of this. From what I have heard, it is slower than most combos and can be outright stopped by a Chalice of the Void or Force of Will. If used, Trinisphere obviously has excellent strengths against both of these matches.

Food Chain Goblins
Generally a Chalice of the Void takes care of the deck, except game two when Null Rod and sometimes Damping Matrix comes in against you. A resolved Trinisphere generally tips the scale of victory to your side. The deck can win on turn three either buy combo or beat down. Uses Goblin Sharpshooter and Siege-Gang Commander that can generally clear the way of chump blockers. Getting a Slaver on him is fairly effective; you can kill him with Goblin Sharpshooter, rig the deck bad and use his Wastelands against him.

Conclusion of Matches
A strong, resilient deck that can take down control like Mike Tyson to his Mom. It has problems with gay red, Landstill, Control Slavery and The Big “O”. If these decks that are tough were abundant in your general facility, I wouldn’t recommend playing Workshop based slaver. Unless you rig your sideboard pre-cautiously, in which case you may be better off playing control Slavery. Like I said, Landstill and Gay/ R are very rigorous match-ups. In order to succeed against them constantly you will have too either get off an early Mindslaver, then play and break the Standstill on your opponent, drawing you three cards. It is crucial against Gay/ R to save Force of Will for Null Rod game one, as beyond that they have seldom threats against you. I am considering adding Juggernaut to my sideboard, as decks like Landstill and Fish can’t handle it. Game two and three they have better sideboard options than you besides Blood Moon, and Red Elemental Blast. The key is out-drawing them and countering any form of Null Rod, then play a fatty with a Chalice of the Void out to stop any form of removal the deck may comprise. Against Landstill I find the biggest threat to easily be Nevinyrral’s Disk. It deletes all permanents in play and loses any tempo the deck had started. Dropping Chalice of the Void with two counters is a tool here; it gets rid of Mana Drain, Standstill and in some builds Fire/ Ice. Still, save the Force of Will for the Disk, it normally ends the game when activated (unless you Memnarch all their lands :p). If you didn’t notice, I failed to mention Stax and Welder MUD. Well, I will briefly analyze how nearly every game eventually ends:
Memnarch 7
Wizard Legend (R)
1UU: Target permanent becomes an artifact in addition to it’s other types.
3U: Gain control of target artifact

Control Slaver Matchups (Aggro/ Hybrid (TnT, Fish/ Landstill, Oshawa Stompy and Madness)

TnT
A problem unless a Mana Drain runs into an early beat stick (Juggernaut, Su-Chi and Triskelion). TnT has a problem against both Slavers, since it is generally based on using Welders and artifacts, it’s sideboard can’t be as provincial as it would like. The matchup is fairly simple, and can generally be won from a Goblin Welder out and a Su-Chi on the board. Since the deck is reactive with counters and TnT sometimes fits itself into a fatty-based tempo, a Mana Drain can win the game. Especially when the deck runs such high casting cost permanents, juicy targets that can set up an early Mindslaver. Fire/ Ice should be saved for opposing Goblin Welders, as it ensures the resolution of all of your opponent’s artifacts. It can be used to get a slaver lock going on him using his Goblin Welder, but the occurrence of this is less than likely. Flame-Tongue Kavu is an excellent sideboard option in my opinion; it takes down small things like Welders and blocks the big guns (see: Juggernaut), or takes out two big guns. Can also take the form of beat down, which is a surprisingly common occasion.

Landstill/ Fish
As opposed to Workshop Slaver, Control Slaver doesn’t have a difficult time with this match up. Game one Landstill generally plays a Standstill early on, wait it out and storm up some broken, break it if they are tapped out or during their attack phase (Mana Drain). Then, next turn attempt to mimic Workshop Slaver by unloading as many tools as possible; this will generally win you the game within a few turns. Game two you get some juicy cards in your sideboard, Red Elemental Blast and Blood Moon among them. Blood Moon will normally just tear down the house, it disrupts their mana and manlands, creating a tranquility effect, and allowing most of your spells to be resolved. Like I said, not a hard match up at all. Fish, on the other hand runs main deck hate (Null Rod) and has seven assorted ways to kill a Goblin Welder, if not more. It is an alright match up, and sometimes can be handled by out-drawing your opponent, and if he gets aggressive then feed it into a Mana Drain, and unload some broken.

Oshawa Stompy
Same thing here with workshop slaver, Oshawa is definently a deck you may want to be void of in your area. They have strong main deck hate (Root Maze and Null Rod) and have intense sideboard options. Not as fast as Madness, but can definitely play enough beat sticks to overcome your life total and playing field. Game two they have even more hate, Ground Seal, Tormod’s Crypt and most of the time direct artifact destruction. I generally like to bring in Flame-Tongue Kavu, as it removes any creature they play and attacks and blocks. This is a generally tough match up and it is recommended that instead of just preparing your sideboard against it, try a different deck if it is rampant in your area.

Madness
Although much faster than Oshawa, this is a bit easier on you. Generally Madness does not tend to run main deck hate such as Null Rod and Rootmaze. Madness can be taken care of once again with a Flame-Tongue Kavu. A big Mana Drain can be set off an Arrogant Wurm, and it can lead to an activated Mindslaver. Mindslaver generally succeeds in discarding their whole hand (Wild Mongrel) and targeting you with Deep Analysis. A resolved and activated Mindslaver generally leads to a victory. Platinum Angel does the same thing, except the Angel says it in ink. Once again global discard agents should be the lambs of the main deck to go to the sideboard, to the already stated Flame-Tongue Kavu.

Control (Hulk/ GAT, Keeper and the mirror match)

Hulk/ GAT
Here, Control Slaver tries to be like combo Slaver and resolve and activate a Mindslaver. It is so successful against a Psychatog, it removes their hand and graveyard from the game. You can get a Slaver down two ways, resolve a Goblin Welder and Thirst for Knowledge it away, or cast it with a lot of counter back up. A very good match up, I don’t think it is your best considering any game with counters flying around can go either way. If you can out draw him, then you can out counter him, if you can out counter him then you can play Mindslaver, which generally ends the game at that.

Keeper
Similar to most control matches, a resolved Goblin Welder can conclude all counter wars over artifacts and can win games alone. Keeper has a lot of answers to anything Control Slaver has, but there are so many versions that trying to hate one out is rendered pointless. Damping matrix and Gorilla Shaman can spoil your day, but the key is in card advantage. You have a stronger draw mechanism than your opponent, and card advantage generally leads to a victory. In the sideboard Red Elemental Blast comes in, and in most cases Blood Moon as well.

Control Slaver
I find that the player who controls a Gorilla Shaman generally wins the match. It stops long turn slavering and can disrupt mana at savage times. Thirst for knowledge to set up the Mindslaver first can turn the game around. Saving Fire/ Ice for your opponents Gorilla Shaman or Goblin Welder can be very appetizing, but Library of Alexandria is the main course, as your opponent has no way to get rid of it. Another thing I was entirely unaware of was it is apparently legal to sacrifice Memory Jar after end steps go on the stack, meaning you keep your hand until the end of next turn. Of course you would only make your opponent do this when he is a “slave for you”.

Combo (Dragon and DeathLong)

Dragon
Relatively hard matches up, considering any deck that can kill you turn one or two isn’t precisely cake. If you can establish a very early Mindslaver, it can be used to deck your opponent by going infinite on them. Other wise just try and load up on counters and slow them down. The other key is Cunning Wish. Putting the leaving play effect on the stack and killing the Worldgorger Dragon/ bouncing it will result in them not having any permanents. Besides that, Tormod’s Crypt, Stifle and Blue Elemental Blast are viable sideboard options. Platinum Angel stays in for its ability to be an obstacle combo can’t overcome, and game two and three are equalized at least, if not in your favor.

DeathLong
A hell of a lot easier than Dragon. It rarely can win turn one, or even turn two. Establishing a counter base is successful against this combo. Fire/ Ice the Xantid Swarms again, and get a Platinum Angel into play. Try and counter the draw sevens, as they will generally take mane burn if they get countered and will stop them in their tracks. I have only played a couple games against DeathLong with control Slaver, and find it to be a fairly easy match up. I generally take out as many global draw effects as I can for the extra Fire/ Ice (Xantid Swarm), Fact or Fiction and Stifle.

For your reference, these are the two builds I have been playing with. More testing has gone into Workshop Slaver, so I have my own private build that I will show you. My Control Slaver list is very similar to The Atog Lords, with some meta gaming and changes.

Creatures  
1 Pentavus
4 Goblin Welder

Control
2 Fire/Ice
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
2 Gorilla Shaman
2 Cunning Wish

Drawing, Searching
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall  
1 Memory Jar
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker

Other
1 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Mindslaver

Mana
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus

Land
1 Library of Alexandria
3 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Strand
4 Volcanic Island
5 Island

Sideboard:
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Flame-Tongue Kavu
2 Blood moon
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Stifle
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Fire/Ice
1 Echoing Truth

This is the build I am testing with, I really like the two main-deck Gorilla Shaman, they have treated me very well, and take care of Null Rod in desperate cases. I would say more, but I am still doing more and more testing, so my word may be faulty to trust. Here, on the other hand is my list for Workshop Slaver, which I have tested and played with for a while:

Combo Slaver 3.0
Creatures
4 Goblin Welder
1 Pentavus
1 Memnarch

Protection
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mindslaver

Draw and Search
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Memory Jar

The Mana Base
4 Mishra’s Worshop
4 Volcanic Island
4 Shivan Reef
3 Gilded Lotus
2 Polluted Delta
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Peal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus

Sideboard
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Blood Moon
3 Trinisphere
2 Meta game slots

EDIT:
Due to consistency issues, I am trying out a blue/ red build. I added a Chalice of the Void, Timetwister, Brainstorm and two Shivan Reef in place of Underground Sea, Yawgmoth’s Will, two Gorilla Shaman (in sideboard) and Demonic Tutor. I still liked the Gorilla Shamans, but haven’t decided if they have earned main deck slots, because they aren’t explosive and don’t belong in the main deck of a deck that is built to be explosive.

I am currently content with the main deck, I am still testing with the sideboard. I am also pending two cards, Vampiric Tutor and Mind Twist that I have yet to make my decision on. Well that was just for reference as to what I was testing with. Now back to the important topic of discussion, which to play, where and why? (If you are still interested in some card analysis and description, it will be at the bottom of the article)

Which Slaver to Play and Where?
Both Slaver builds have their own odds and ends, and are good against a certain arch type of decks. Your choice between the two can be just from a favorable decision you like about the deck, if you aren’t a control player and like playing broken stuff fast, play workshop slaver and vice versa. I have picked my choice, because my metagame is fairly balanced and is balancing itself more and more, so I choose which I want to play on one simple reason. The control build of Mindslaver is a reactive type, it needs an opponents spell to be played with a moderate casting cost, or it fails. The Workshop build is pro-active, or self-accumulating. It builds on itself based on tempo, and can get started without an opponent starting you off first. If you still aren’t satisfied and are looking for a route of success over likeness, then this is what I would recommend:

Where I would Pilot Combo Slaver
In an area with a lot of Hulk/ GAT, Madness, aggro and Workshop based prison decks. I suggest this because:

1) Any deck that is catastrophically affected by an activated Mindslaver early on is a good match up. Control Slaver, being a reactive based deck has to wait for food for Mana Drain to set up the early Mindslaver. Where as with Workshop Slaver, the deck is proactive and can activate a Mindslaver within two or three turns.

2) Control has a tougher time with aggro than combo, obviously. When playing Combo Slaver in an aggro occupied environment, the entire idea would be to lay down as much broken as possible, something that Control Slaver is incapable of unless a resolved Mana Drain gets its way through on a big target early on. Workshop Slaver is much safer.

3) Most prison-biased decks have a great match up against control. With a combination of Goblin Welder, Smokestack, Tangle Wire and Trinisphere, Control Slaver will have a tough time handling all the threats and lock components. With Combo Slaver, you can make a mass amount of permanents with Pentavus, something that hinders the Tangle Wire/ Smokestack lock. On top of that, Memnarch is a bomb. It takes control of unsuspecting artifacts and uses them to your advantage. Both decks do fine against most prison decks because an activated Mindslaver early on is very effective, but if it is rampant then Combo Slaver has an extra edge.

Where I would Pilot Control Slaver
Control Slaver has a good matchup with most control decks, anywhere with a lot of stacker/ artifact prison, control, Dragon and hybrid (Fish/ Landstill). I find this reasonable because:

1) Control Slaver has possibly the most draw effects out of any control deck. The key to winning the control match up is card advantage, so if you take the deck that has the most card advantage, you find your winner most likely, unless they have Kerz’s luck with Mana Crypt. Running Goblin Welder, eight counters and nine draw three’s will generally ensure the resolution of most of your artifacts.

2) Like I said above, both decks have a good match up against stacker. Stacker will win once it gets you in a hard lock, but as The Atog Lord once said, “ The later the game goes, The better off you are”. If you can dissect the lock and break it apart, then you will most likely win.

3) Any deck that can kill you turn one or two is a tough match up. Dragon is so much harder when piloting Combo Slaver, and I know people might have raised their eyebrows at that line. Even with Chalice of the Void and Force of Will main-deck, Dragon is well known for it’s ability to surpass hate, and unless you resolve a chalice for three and two, stopping the animate effects, then Chalice of the Void is a, well a void card. In Control Slaver you have Cunning Wish for viable targets, sideboard options, simply more counters and Fire/ Ice to stop the Xantid Swarm.

4) Against Fish/ Landstill Control Slaver has a huge advantage. With Combo Slaver, a Standstill slows down your tempo and has to be broken. In Control Slaver it isn’t such a threat, as it can just draw a card each turn, take some damage and break the Standstill at end of turn or during your opponents attack phase (Mana Drain). Then, when they are tapped out unload some broken which will generally win you the game shortly. Null Rod isn’t such a threat as it is to Workshop Slaver; Control Slaver has main-deck answers (Cunning Wish) and runs fewer artifacts.

My Card Decisions (Workshop Slaver only)
I am currently testing out black just simply for more broken cards, especially Yawgmoth’s Will. I am still pending/ testing the use of Vampiric Tutor. I use Polluted Delta to ensure the extra red for Gorilla Shaman and black for Yawgmoth’s Will and Demonic Tutor. I run two main-deck Gorilla Shaman more as a metagame decision, and because it is the house in Slaver vs. Slaver games. I cut Windfall and Timetwister because Windfall was a dead card too often, and Timetwister lacks too much synergy between Goblin Welders and Yawgmoth’s Will. Mind Twist makes Mindslavering an opponent a bit redundant, but it may be effective enough to give the control match up to your favor. I also cut one CHalice of the Void and one Brianstorm, because Chalice of the Void is only favorable when set at two, so multiples are useless against most decks. Brainstorm sets up the broken, but I don't see a need to do it multiple times, one should do it. Please, post opinions and thoughts on my builds, as I am somewhat indecisive with some of my current choices.

Conclusion
I am still under the belief that Workshop Slaver is better due to it being self-accumulating and proactive, where as Drain Slaver is reactive. I suppose it also involves the hate in your environment, meta gaming and your taste of decks. I hope this helped you make a decision about which to play, but the decision is clear in my environment and taste. If you read this far, I would appreciate some critics, thank you for reading and tell me what you think is the best Slaver build, control or combo and the card choices.
- The Hamburgler

[Razvan]

Okay, I will have to re-read this again, since my head was spinning, but a very well-written post.

Workshop vs. Control Slaver comes down to simple tactics. Control cannot go as broken as Workshop, and thus, according to the explosiveness vs. consistency theory, is the more consistent built.

Which means what?

Well, primarily, I think that Workshop Slaver will have an inherit vulnerability to control decks if this broken start does not happen. Playing catch-up sometimes is required, and I don't think that the Workshop built is designed for that. A lot hinges on a first turn Welder that is allowed to survive in order to be usable. Should this not happen, the situation becomes a bit more tense, as they will generally have a turn to deal with it. The presence of FoW and other roadblocks shore this up, and help with  the combo-matchup.

Workshop slaver also has more big dudes, which do help in a stalemate. Mindslaver is Mindslaver, but no card says game over more than Memnarch, and Workshop slaver is much more friendly and accomodating to that.

And yes, Null Rod is a very dangerous card against Workshop slaver.

So again, it all depends on explosiveness vs. consistency.

[The Hamburgler]

The only consistency problem in the Workshop build is getting the three mana by third turn to cast Thirst for Knowledge, which is why Gilded Lotus is in the deck. Once a Gilded Lotus resolves then you start a draw mechanism going, which leads to the broken stuff then Mindslaver lock. The control version is fairly consistent, but it relies on resolving a Mana Drain on an opponent's spell. Otherwise it is too slow, and can lose to random aggro while looking for the mana it needs to support the deck itself, such as Mindslaver and the kill conditions.

Okay, I will have to re-read this again, since my head was spinning, but a very well-written post.

Thanks, I appreciate critics like I said   .

[Razvan]

I fully agree on Gilded Lotus. My original build didn't have any, and when I saw Smennen's version, I immediately added 4. I am not sure which one's better, 3 or 4, but either way, it improved it immensely.

The control one can last until you can actually cast a Mana Drain. It can afford to wait, since it's not so vulnerable to mindless hate. At least that's what I found.

[Shades]

The only consistency problem in the Workshop build is getting the three mana by third turn to cast Thirst for Knowledge, which is why Gilded Lotus is in the deck. Once a Gilded Lotus resolves then you start a draw mechanism going, which leads to the broken stuff then Mindslaver lock.

Thats definately right and a really big problem for this deck! Keep the Lotus off the board and you will probably win with a control deck.

And the Drain build is definatley not THAT reliant on the Drains as you say.
The Drains are your weapons for such annoying things like Null Rods, Shamans and opposing force of wills. They keep your welders on the board and let your Thirsts resolve.
But they are NOT the decks engine like the Gilded Loti are. When a Gilded Lotus is on the board you will probably win the longer the game dures. Keep it off the board and the Slavery player cannot flood the game with his bombs...

Maybe I just draw crappy yesterday, but I had to mulligan like 10 times in 7 rounds and thats definatley not good for a tier 1 deck...

[The Hamburgler]

I don't mean to say that Control Slaver is entirely Dependant on Mana Drain, but the deck is too slow if it doesn't get the Mana Drain, as in even slow considering it's a control deck. Like I said, Drain Slaver is reactive, where as Workshop Slaver can self accumulate, and keep a steady defense. It is my favorite of the two.

[The Hamburgler]

You can also be really short about the difference between the 2 decks:
Shop-Slaver is much more explosive, while Control-Slaver is much more consistent.

The entire point of this was to get away from the dull observations like these. Try playing Workshop Slaver and dropping a first turn Gilded Lotus (Mana Crypt+ Mishra's Workshop) and within one turn Combo Slaver is much more consistent. I am aware on how blunt that analysis is. Against GAT there really isn't much else to do, it is possibly the best match up for the deck. I mean I hate just blunt observations.
What's the difference between the Mono-green land destruction deck and Green Power Ranger? Both originated from the same deck. Deck's can be similar in comparison of the cards they use, but by all means Combo Slaver and Control Slaver are very different decks, just about everything besides how they lock the opponent and obviously the key cards based around it, but they play very different.

[Prism]

excellent post, you obviously spent a lot of time testing.

i have a question:

4) Against Fish/ Landstill Control Slaver has a huge advantage. With Combo Slaver, a Standstill slows down your tempo and has to be broken. In Control Slaver it isn’t such a threat, as it can just draw a card each turn, take some damage and break the Standstill at end of turn or during your opponents attack phase (Mana Drain)...

how do you break a standstill with a manadrain? or does this mean you should play something, and then drain their counter?

clarification would be appreciated. thanks!

[The Atog Lord]

Burgler, very well-written post. It is clear that you have put a lot of thought and testing into your writing.

Prism, these some thoughts on the Landstill matchup, from my Primer:

Should Standstill resolve, your best bet is often to keep playing lands and taking a few damage each turn. Then, once the Landstill player has six or seven cards in hand, use an instant to break Standstill at the end of that player’s turn. Thereafter, given the high concentration of threats in your deck, you can usually establish a strong board position with counter backup on the following turn. This matchup is generally favorable.

You can often out-draw Landstill, and can often break a Standstill and then "go off" next turn. The match is very much in Control Slaver's favor.

[The Hamburgler]

excellent post, you obviously spent a lot of time testing.

i have a question:

4) Against Fish/ Landstill Control Slaver has a huge advantage. With Combo Slaver, a Standstill slows down your tempo and has to be broken. In Control Slaver it isn’t such a threat, as it can just draw a card each turn, take some damage and break the Standstill at end of turn or during your opponents attack phase (Mana Drain)...

how do you break a standstill with a manadrain? or does this mean you should play something, and then drain their counter?

clarification would be appreciated. thanks!

The idea pends on the situation. You generally take damage from manlands when under a Standstill, draw a card per turn until you rack up an impressive amount of broken/ counter back up. Then, when they have UU untapped and Standstill in play, brake it on let's say a Thirst for Knowledge, which will theoretically get Mana Drained. This will force your opponent to use the three mana during their second main phase, which is uncomfortable, they will play something like a Nevinyrral's Disk. This will then open up a one turn period where most of your spells will resolve, and this is when you take over the game. If they don't have UU open they you brake it at end of their turn, forcing them to discard in most cases. The point of the (Mana Drain) was to remember when to play spells to get around it.

The Atog Lord:
Thank you very much, the entire basis of the deck is out-drawing against any control based deck, and a standstill deck being one of them. I admire your work on the deck, good job on the high finish at the CT lotus tournament.

[zero]

I find it interesting you advocate cutting a chalice from the workshop version. My own playtesting indicates that I want it set at 2 within the first 3 turns for the most effect, and to me that means 4 of them is a must. The ones I draw later either get discarded to a thirst for knowledge, or get set at 0 to give me 1 more blue with a tolarian out and then get welded for some more slavery, or just get played so i can immediately tinker it away. And I think welding back your slaver and timetwistering to screw your opponent's full hand to be pretty humorous, but that's just me...and I would worry you may be cutting your blue count a little too low to support force of will reliably.
One other thing I'd worry about is the mana base, I think you actually need the 4 volcanics and 4 shivan reefs, not only to ensure you reliably draw them, but any type 1 player worthy of the name will probably try to cut off the red sources ASAP if he's running 5 strip effects.

[The Hamburgler]

Zero:
I am still in the testing with the black in the deck, as everyone knows Workshop Slaver is having consistency issues, so the mana base might be affected. I am testing against every deck with five strip effects to see if they harm me.
The reason I didn't like running four Chalice of the Void was because the only number they were good to be set at was two, so drawing into two or more Chalice of the Void is generally redundant. I am still in the works with different ideas, however no matter what colors you are running taking out two Ancient Tomb for two Polluted Delta/ Flooded Strand seems to be the right play. Although Ancient Tomb can make two colorless mana, I don't think the speed is the problem. The problem is finding the three mana (including blue) to cast Thirst for Knowledge by turn three or earlier. If it is done off an early Gilded Lotus, then you will be surprised in how consistent the deck is. I just don't like having cards that are such a waste that I would discard them before anything, and having cards like that in a combo orientated deck is critical. I do acknowledge Chalice of the Void's importance in the deck, I am just still testing between different versions.

[nataz]

Just a quick couple of comments,

Nice match up analysis, but I would have to agree with zero that I wouldn’t ever cut a chalice. Sure, chalice for two is often an auto play turn 1-3, but depending on you knowledge of the other persons deck, chalice set at a variety of numbers can be devastating.

Example, chalice for one after you lay down a mox monkey or welder can be huge in the mirror, tog, draw 7, and keeper matches. Chalice for two is strong against mana drain, and artifact hate. Chalice for three kills hulk dead unless they are main decking mox monkey (ugh, that happened to me, chalice for three first turn, him, mox monkey second turn), stops rack and ruins, dampening matrix and a host of other hate. Chalice for zero stunts mana development in a ton of decks.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that usually I use the chalice as an offensive weapon, both early and often. Very rarely will it ever hurt me as much as it hurts the opponent. Most of my threats can be welded into play, where as I can intelligently use chalice to completely stifle my opponents hate, threats, draw, etc. To do this effectively (and use the workshops to their fullest extent) I really think going fewer than four chalices is a mistake.


ps,
I would also cut the FoF and or Timewalk before I cut the Timetwister. Twister can be very very good, and the positives outweight the negitives almost all of the time considering you can often times just weld in what you want to save, and shuffle everything else back into your deck to draw into again. Not to mention its always fun to screw with dragon, tog's, and other welders deck's graveyards.

[cssamerican]

Most of my experience is with the Workshop variant so that is what my comments are directed at.

I will also say that I would never cut Chalice of the Void. In the best case scenarios it can win games all by itself. And in the worst case scenario in which you would only want to set it to two, you will still want to see it as early as possible to get the strongest effect. Plus drawing additional ones later in the game is not that bad even if they are unneeded since you can put them into play for zero and weld them away.

Also I would stay away from fetchlands completely because it can open your mana base to Stifle. I know this may seem trivial, but you can tap a Shivan Reef for red mana and play a Goblin Welder even with a Wasteland in play; however, stifled fetchlands don't allow you to play anything. This is something that does come up more than you would think especially if you play in a control environment, or in budget (Fish) environment.

I noticed that some people are running more beats as a defense against Null Rod, which is probably a good plan. In my experience the two weakest cards in the deck that you could cut would be: Time Walk (Most time in the early game it doesn't do a whole lot unless you start with a broken hand anyway, and late in the game it is usually unplayable because of a Chalice of the Void.) and Fact or Fiction. (Although it is a very powerful effect when it resolves, the problem is sometimes four mana is just very difficult to come by if you do not have a Gilded Lotus in play, and it is almost impossible to hard cast with a Null Rod in play.) Now if I were going to add cards to the deck for beatdown purposes I would look at Sundering Titan because he could be such a bomb, and his drawback would almost always hurt your opponent more than it would you. Or Platinum Angel for the evasion, and the, you can't lose effect. While both of these creatures are expensive you can use that Workshop mana you paid so much money to get to cast them, and you can always weld them into play as well.

[The Hamburgler]

@ Cssamerican:
I don't know why people suggest cutting Fact or Fiction, it is four to cast but it is so solid when slavering an opponent and making him split the pile five and zero. Chalice of the Void, after a day of testing and dictating I have decided to add the fourth, even though the only number where it doesn't hurt is two. Sundering Titan, along with Sinkhole is too slow for the format, so it is just a Johnny-creature, when creatures like Memnarch and Pentavus are much more effective. I am not afraid of Stifle at all because it would be a waste of a Stifle; they would be waiting for the Mindslaver activation/ Welder to Stifle. Null Rod is pretty easy to maintain without taking up valuable slots in the sideboard, it happens to be a two casting cost spell, so Chalice of the Void is capable of shutting it down. To take an extra measure you could simply save the Force of Will for it. Depending on what deck is playing Null Rod, Gorilla Shaman can take care of a cheap moxen and then Goblin Welder can get rid of the Null Rod.

@ Nataz:
Timetwister would likely get the axe because it would make no sense to play it when you have a Mindslaver lock already going, unless it was dragon and you were going to kill them with their own deck, and even then it's not such a good idea. I will edit my list a bit.

[cssamerican]

If you are playing a good Fish player, and he knows the Slavery match well it is very likely he will stifle your fetchlands. Why? Because he knows Slavery is starved for color mana, and he know his turn two Null Rod will shut down Mindsalver. Fish is about tempo, preventing you access to color mana is one of the best ways of stealing that tempo. Plus, if the fish player sits and waits for you to activate a Mindslaver that means he is also waiting for you to drop a Penatvus (Not a real good strategy on his part)

I was not so much suggesting cutting Time Walk and Fact or Fiction, as I was saying that if I were to cut cards for additional beats those would be the two I would cut. Why Fact of Fiction over Timetwister? Timetwister rocks in your opening hand, Fact of Fiction usually blows in you opening hand. Timetwister can be used as a defensive card; Fact or Fiction can not. You even said that Fact of Fiction was great because when you mindslave someone Fact or Fiction gives you five cards, that sounds like win more 90% of the time to me. Hell, if I am mindslaving and casting Fact or Fiction I am probably in a winning position anyway.

I fail to see how a turn two 7/10 Armageddon is too slow in the environment. Sinkhole isn't great because all it does is remove one land from play; Sundering Titan removes multiple lands from play and beats down HARD!

[The Hamburgler]

Maybe I just don't like Sundering Titan because it can't hit Mishra's Workshop, Tolarian Academy, Ancient Tomb, moxen etc. It needs a Goblin Welder to get started though, and yes I will admit is an excellent fatty. I would just prefer a Memnarch that can steal threats, like Sundering Titan. I am considering using Viashino Heretic in the sideboard as a replacement of Gorilla Shaman or Trinisphere (I never liked it). A good Fish player would also be aware of Chalice for two and as well be aware that Chalice of the Void can be Stifled, therefore a Null Rod can still slip through.

Update:
I was reading over Smmenen's thread on Combo Slaver, when I realized that he doesn't use Library of Alexandria. I talked to Kerz about it and he said it contrasts the decks play, Library of Alexandria being more conservative than the deck should be, and how it has a negative interference with the deck's ability to explode. Any thoughts?

Posts merged. -Dr. Sylvan

[Dr. Sylvan]

There's a big contrast between LoA's incentives for restraining your play and Slavery's instinctive urge to spring forth and pwn with whatever it draws. You constantly want to play the artifacts and Welders, not hold back for an extra couple of draws.

[Razvan]

Chalice... I keep inserting it in, and keep getting disappointed with it... I don't understand why...

I think it's primarily because I use 4 Trinispheres in almost every Workshop variant built I have (approaching 10+ now, and only one doesn't have it, the old Stax version)... and that card really makes every other lock component useless, or almost so.

And yet, on some occasions, it's game over if I get a Chalice early enough. Chalice for 2 and 3 wrecks decks, and it's so hard to let go. I think some serious analysis needs to be done for this... hm... maybe I should! *ponders article*

Unlike some here, I am honestly in love with Trinisphere (if I could have sex with it, I would, so don't suggest it... ). This card is getting better and better daily. Unbelievable.

Library of Alexandria

I think Phil right above me made the point about it. Workshop needs to be explosive, it can't afford to waste time setting up. Combo decks generally don't like the LoA, and sometimes, Workshop decks have to work like Combo decks to succeed.

Sundering Titan

I took a look at the 7/10 Split decks that Triple_S played, and I think it has potential. These dudes are wrecking balls against a lot of decks that Workshop decks have trouble with. Against Keeper or Tog, a resolved Titan can irrepairably wreck the mana base. Multiple uses and it's good night.

Viashino Heretic

Yey! It's catching on. I really like this little guy. What Gorilla Shaman cannot kill, the V-Heretic can. Yes, it can destroy Dreadnoughts too. And anything else... for 1R... with Memnarch? It's a Predator Flagship.

[cssamerican]

The Hamburgler this is what Steve has said on the subject.

I completely agree with Caelestis' (sp?) comments.  The deck is extremely multi-faceted.  I went through about half a dozen test games against Tog this past Tuesday before I actually played or used a Mindslaver - winning almost all of my games with Memnarch.  

Let me start of by saying that your arguments, Jhaggs, against Library seem to be:

1) you never used it to a draw a card

2) you'd rather play something else on turn one that is marginally better than a colorless mana source

I think to all the people who are against Library, you need to ask what the deck is doing.  This deck is nothing like the old Workshop prison decks.  Why?  Becuase this deck can be much slower.  The old Shop decks were more comboey becuase they just unloaded onto the board out of necessity.  The way that Mindlsaver works it means that you can activate that effect and have the same effect as what Stax was trying to do in the first place the space of one turn.  

Did you read my tournament report in the tournament forum?  Check out how alot of my games went that I won.  Its true that the deck does want to do something disgusting by a certain turn, but the fact is that you don't have to do it immediately.  The deck in my opinion succeeds because it is multifaceted.  That is how I beat Null Rod and other hate cards - I play the deck to suit each matchup.  

Getting back directly on point: you do not need to combo out immediately.  As a way to counter your first argument, here is how I use library.  If I drop a turn one library (something I LOVE to do - especially if I am drawing), I will generally only use it twice, and then do something ridiculous.  I probably draw with Library as much in the midgame as I do on turn 1-2.  Why?  Because I use Library alot after Twister, Wheel, and in recurring Jars.  

There are very few things that you have to do absolutely immediately (relating to your second point).  One of the few things that I think has a truly limited window of opprotunity is Chalice 2.  If you can't do a turn one or two Chalice for 2, you should forgo it for something else (which is why Brainstorm is so good in this deck).  If you are playing, you have a two turn window to play Chalice 2.  But if they get UU up, I'd say its almost too late unless you do it as a lure and follow up with something more broken.  

Library is not something you can rely on to win you games - becuase it is true that you must play the "beatdown (i.e. combo role)" in many matchups, but drawing a few cards before doing it is certainly worthwhile in my view and has proved to be time and again.  

How do I play this deck?  I feign like I am a control deck until I combo out on turn three or thereabouts - which can mean playing 3 draw 7s in one turn or going nuts with Slaver or Memnarch.

Steve

But I hope you read the whole thread because it gives a lot of insight on why and why not you should run LoA in Workshop Slavery.

[The Hamburgler]

@ Cssamerican:
Hi, I have already read the thread and know his belief's about Library of Alexandria. I think it is an excellent thing to draw in your opening hand, and when activated two or three times early on can store up the explosiveness. On the other hand, when it is drawn when you are lacking cards in hand and draw it late or mid-game, it well just sucks. It is the best card you can get against any control match up, but it is generally agreed that the explosiveness that Slaver can unleash is well enough to override control as is.

@ Razvan:
Trinisphere would be loved that much if I played in an area without Wasteland, other shop decks and with plenty of Tendrils based decks. More interestingly:

I took a look at the 7/10 Split decks that Triple_S played, and I think it has potential. These dudes are wrecking balls against a lot of decks that Workshop decks have trouble with. Against Keeper or Tog, a resolved Titan can irreparably wreck the mana base. Multiple uses and it's good night.

I am still standing by my opinion, it is a major threat and can take care of lands within a few turns. The only thing is, it helps the control match up a lot, but the only problem is control isn't the expertise of decks that appear to be a menacing match up for Combo Slaver. Threats can take care of control, but explosiveness can do the deed as well.

@ Dr. Sylvan:
Library of Alexandria guarantees a win against any deck where the entire plot would be to gain a hand advantage over your opponent. Through testing, I realized that these matches were too seldom to occur, so it was a useless spot.

UPDATE
Library of Alexandria clearly opposes the deck's explosiveness, and lacks synergy with the deck. There is one slot in the main deck, I am considering adding a Triskelion or Duplicant, but am open to ideas/ suggestions.
- The Hamburgler

[Toad]

I was reading over Smmenen's thread on Combo Slaver

It is a CONTROL deck.

I'm really pissed of being forced to write that in every single Slavery thread. If you play it as a Combo deck, then you simply do not understand how the deck works.

And Library of Alexandria is good in Control decks right? I mean, why is drawing cards bad? Why do you want to pull a turn 2 Mindslaver activation against Aggro and do nothing with his deck when you can pull it on turn 3 after drawing an additionnal card? Have you ever used Library in the deck? Turn 1 LoA is an awesome setup against many decks.

You should remove Brainstorms too because it opposes the deck's explosiveness and lacks synergy with the deck. No?

[The Hamburgler]

I was reading over Smmenen's thread on Combo Slaver

It is a CONTROL deck.

I'm really pissed of being forced to write that in every single Slavery thread. If you play it as a Combo deck, then you simply do not understand how the deck works.

And Library of Alexandria is good in Control decks right? I mean, why is drawing cards bad? Why do you want to pull a turn 2 Mindslaver activation against Aggro and do nothing with his deck when you can pull it on turn 3 after drawing an additional card? Have you ever used Library in the deck? Turn 1 LoA is an awesome setup against many decks.

You should remove Brainstorms too because it opposes the deck's explosiveness and lacks synergy with the deck. No?

This befuddles me. IF Mindslaver is control biased, then why is it essential to start off with explosiveness? If Mishra's Workshop is a control deck then how is there two versions of Slaver, one called control, the other apparently neutral. As to how you came to the conclusion that a deck based on explosive starts that generally degenerate any form of card advantage the deck holds in the end, it must have been a philosophy based on play against control, where the deck plays in a control form, then still unloads, except at different times. Bainstorm doesn't lack synergy, it increases consistency and is a search for broken cards, it wasn't added to gain synergy, but instead to gain consistency. Library of Alexandria, as you proclaim is a meta game based deck. In my general environment control is at a scarce amount, nearly extinct, making the altered play of the deck nearly obsolete, where I would use Library of Alexandria to it's fullest. Library wastes a tap mana to draw a card, meanwhile your opponent is playing Null Rod or Damping Matrix. Playing this deck as a control deck is a major fault, I know you are one of the leading Workshop players in the world, and I admired your work on Welder MUD, Slavery and TnT, but I am, as I said, befuddled by how you came to this conclusion. Sorry to ask you to post again, but maybe a brief explanation of why you would play Workshop biased Slaver as a control deck in regular matches, against control, combo and aggro.
- The Hamburgler

[Smmenen]

I was reading over Smmenen's thread on Combo Slaver

It is a CONTROL deck.

I'm really pissed of being forced to write that in every single Slavery thread. If you play it as a Combo deck, then you simply do not understand how the deck works.

And Library of Alexandria is good in Control decks right? I mean, why is drawing cards bad? Why do you want to pull a turn 2 Mindslaver activation against Aggro and do nothing with his deck when you can pull it on turn 3 after drawing an additional card? Have you ever used Library in the deck? Turn 1 LoA is an awesome setup against many decks.

You should remove Brainstorms too because it opposes the deck's explosiveness and lacks synergy with the deck. No?

This befuddles me. IF Mindslaver is control biased, then why is it essential to start off with explosiveness? If Mishra's Workshop is a control deck then how is there two versions of Slaver, one called control, the other apparently neutral. As to how you came to the conclusion that a deck based on explosive starts that generally degenerate any form of card advantage the deck holds in the end, it must have been a philosophy based on play against control, where the deck plays in a control form, then still unloads, except at different times. Bainstorm doesn't lack synergy, it increases consistency and is a search for broken cards, it wasn't added to gain synergy, but instead to gain consistency. Library of Alexandria, as you proclaim is a meta game based deck. In my general environment control is at a scarce amount, nearly extinct, making the altered play of the deck nearly obsolete, where I would use Library of Alexandria to it's fullest. Library wastes a tap mana to draw a card, meanwhile your opponent is playing Null Rod or Damping Matrix. Playing this deck as a control deck is a major fault, I know you are one of the leading Workshop players in the world, and I admired your work on Welder MUD, Slavery and TnT, but I am, as I said, befuddled by how you came to this conclusion. Sorry to ask you to post again, but maybe a brief explanation of why you would play Workshop biased Slaver as a control deck in regular matches, against control, combo and aggro.
- The Hamburgler

The claim that brokeness is the best route to victory is not properly founded.

Some of my favorite hands with the Workshop Slaver deck involve turn one Brainstorm, turn two Thirst, turn three Thirst again or Fact.  In that respect its just mimicing the control deck and then BAM on turn 4-6 I can just go off.  Alternatively, by playing turn one Brainstorm, turn two Chalice 2 and turn three Gilded Lotus draw some cards is not very "combo"ish.  I'm using the Chalice to control the board as Keeper would use Moat.  The Slaver deck is NOT a combo deck - it is a hybrid concept.

Steve

[The Hamburgler]

As for hybrid, I always believed decks like Fish to be a hybrid concept, being a control and aggro slur. I guess I should be more opened minded in choosing the arch-type of my decks. I still think it doesn't lead as much to control as it does aggro, seeing as even though it utilizes cards like Bainstorm and Thirst or Knowledge, they are made to set up the combo. The deck plays a lot like Hulk, it draws a lot of cards then just wins. The other difference between this deck and control is that control uses counters as an aggression, to stop opponent’s threats. In Slaver, Force of Will is used to stop the hate, same with Chalice of the Void. Thank you for the clarification, and lastly Smmenen if the deck is a control deck, then why don't you use Library of Alexandria? (This is just from looking at your latest Workshop thread of Slaver)
- The Hamburgler

[Smmenen]

As for hybrid, I always believed decks like Fish to be a hybrid concept, being a control and aggro slur. I guess I should be more opened minded in choosing the arch-type of my decks. I still think it doesn't lead as much to control as it does aggro, seeing as even though it utilizes cards like Bainstorm and Thirst or Knowledge, they are made to set up the combo. The deck plays a lot like Hulk, it draws a lot of cards then just wins. The other difference between this deck and control is that control uses counters as an aggression, to stop opponent?s threats. In Slaver, Force of Will is used to stop the hate, same with Chalice of the Void. Thank you for the clarification, and lastly Smmenen if the deck is a control deck, then why don't you use Library of Alexandria? (This is just from looking at your latest Workshop thread of Slaver)
- The Hamburgler

I have used LOA for almost the entire time I've been playing it.
http://www.morphling.de/coverages/top8decks.php?id=124  (look at 8th place)
The only list that didn't have the LOA was my article with Toad - and the decklist we posted in that article was old.

Steve

[The Hamburgler]

http://www.morphling.de/coverages/top8decks.php?id=114

So you decided to cut an Ancient Tomb for the Library? (Going by that list)
Dr. Sylvan thinks that it goes against the decks explosiveness, and I think that reserves two or three turns drawing cards may succeed against control, but utter explosiveness is capable of overrunning the deck with sheer threats and broken. How do you respond to this? Did you ever try fetchlands in place of Ancient Tomb(s), to help cure the color inconsistency problem, if so then what was your outcome and if not then try it.
If I may ask, how do you explain your most recent sideboard? Mogg Salvage seems much less than Gorilla Shaman, stopping a constant Goblin Welder engine, and what is with two Platinum Angels, why is two necessary? Thank you for your output, as well as you Toad, sorry to be another post you had to dictate why I'm wrong about the arch-type of Slavery  :lol: .

[Toad]

* "Why is that a Control deck" issue :

- Against Combo. You can't really rely on a broken Mindslaver activation by turn 2, because It's highly unrealistic. Your game plan here is to slow down the game with Chalice of the Void and Force of Will, while developping your mana base in order to ramp up to 6 manas including 4 non Workshop ones, digging into your deck thanks to Brainstorms and Thirst for Knowledge. Then you use Mindslaver, and win. That's a typical Control game plan.

- Against Aggro. An early Mindslaver is not spectacular because you won't hurt Aggro really much if your opponent has no mana on the board. If you do that, Mindslaver is just a 10cc Time Walk. As Smmenycakes mentionned, you want to dig a mana base using your draw spells during the first few turns, then combo off using a combination of Welders, Mindslavers and fat dudes by turn 4 or 5. Turn 1 Brainstorm, turn 2 Chalice of the Void for 2, turn 3 Gilded Lotus for a Draw7 or a Thirst for Knowledge, turn 4 Mindslaver or Pentavus or Memnarch is what you want to do against Aggro.

- Against Control, Its all about building a mana base and outdrawing the opponent. You don't really want to throw a Mindslaver into a Mana Drain.

* Why is Slavery fundamentally an hybrid deck?

Slavery is an hybrid concept like Tog is, for example. Tog can basically ignore the opponent while drawing huge amounts of cards, then go off with Tog and Berserk. Now, take a Tog deck, swap Accumulated Knowledges and Intuitions with Thirst for Knowledge, Mana Drain with Mishra's Workshop, Duress with Chalice of the Void, Tog with Mindslaver and Cunning Wish / Berserk with Goblin Welder. And you have Slavery and can play it using Tog's game plan. As Tog is, Slavery is a Control deck that wins in a turn by combo-ing off the opponent, so Its a Control deck with a Combo win condition.

[RoadTrippin]

This befuddles me. IF Mindslaver is control biased, then why is it essential to start off with explosiveness?

Because we're playing Type One. Let's take the most reactive deck I can think of- Keeper for example. Keeper is obviously a control deck, no doubt. But, if it couldn't ever have accelerated starts (faster than +1 mana/turn) it would just suck. That's why budget decks are worse than real decks.

[The Hamburgler]

@ Toaddy:

I was reading over Smmenen's thread on Combo Slaver


It is a CONTROL deck.

I'm really pissed of being forced to write that in every single Slavery thread. If you play it as a Combo deck, then you simply do not understand how the deck works.

And Library of Alexandria is good in Control decks right? I mean, why is drawing cards bad? Why do you want to pull a turn 2 Mindslaver activation against Aggro and do nothing with his deck when you can pull it on turn 3 after drawing an additional card? Have you ever used Library in the deck? Turn 1 LoA is an awesome setup against many decks.

You should remove Brainstorms too because it opposes the deck's explosiveness and lacks synergy with the deck. No?

I misinterpreted this, by this I thought you meant the deck was based on disruption, like the average control deck, but what I think you meant was that it plays out like a control deck, most comparable to Hulk. I didn't reach this conclusion because I just viewed the deck's sole base as getting the Mindslaver off as soon as possible, but still when effective. Both decks play like control decks, except Mishra's Workshop biased Slavery is capable of doing silly things early on, and uses it's counters (Chalice of the Void, Force of Will) as a more defensive state, where as in Control Slavery is based on sweeping threats and then turning the Mana Drain mana into hopefully early threats, like I said Workshop Slaver is proactive or self-accumulating, where as Control Slaver is reactive based. The other thing is, against aggro explosiveness is excellent, but that doesn't mean it has to be in the form of a Mindslaver, a second- third turn Pentavus does the job, and explosiveness can be control as well, a first-second turn Memnarch is better than any draw the deck supports, and is ridiculous with a Goblin Welder.

@ Roadtrippin':
That would be true if it were most other decks, but the entire sole basis is to explode, but in the meanwhile play draw like Thirst for Knowledge. Example:
First turn:
Volcanic Island, Goblin Welder
Second Turn:
Mishra's Workshop, Mox Jet, Gilded Lotus, Thirst for Knowledge and pitch a Pentavus.

That may seem ridiculous, but it isn't as rare as it may look. I was wrong though, because I wasn't open minded. The deck isn't entirely based on explosiveness, as it can play a steady "draw race" with control. Your point was made though, thank you.
- The Hamburgler