TheManaDrain.com
October 11, 2025, 05:23:11 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: [Deck Construction] Ravager (Combo-Aggro Version)  (Read 3960 times)
SpencerForHire
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 1473



View Profile
« on: May 11, 2004, 06:42:16 pm »

Intro
Type 2 has been hit with a surge of a powerful deck known as Ravager Affinity.  This deck has been rampant and has been almost viable as a type 1 deck in it's block contruction.  The next step is obvious, making ravager a type 1 phenominon.
First I will start with my thoughts on color selection and what style of play I am persuing.
Ravager Affinity is lightning fast and is decently consistent, however as it is almost entirely made of artifacts it has a problem in hate.  Main deck [card]Null Rod[/card]s and a SB enemy to boot.  I believe as far as colors go it should be BUr.  The style of this deck is pure and simple, go off before your opponent goes.  
The Problem: Getting the cards fast enough to win, and hoping you aren't hated before that time.  It was suggested to me by several people to run green for [card]Oxidize[/card].  I thought it foolish to run green in a combo deck just for one card, the inconsistency would jump tramatically and even if I was to add [card]Berserk[/card] and [card]Crop Rotation[/card]; it probably wouldn't ever be worth it.
The object is to run fast enough that such cards as null rod wouldn't be a concern.  I have gotten a basic build down but I am unsure on several cards.  Don't get me wrong, i've been testing and testing I just can't get the consistency faster then pure 3rd turn.  

The Basic: The inclusions that without the deck could not run in my opinion are as follows.

//The Kill [12]
4 [card]Disciple of the Vault[/card]
4 [card]Arcbound Ravager[/card]
4[card]Shrapnel Blast[/card]

//The Grinder [8]
4 [card]Myr Enforcer[/card]
4 [card]Frogmite[/card]
--space--

//The Draw [9]
4 [card]Thoughtcast[/card]
1 [card]Ancestral Recall[/card]
4 [card]Skullclamp[/card]

//The Auto-Win [2]
1 [card]Time Walk[/card]
1 [card]Yawgmoths Will[/card]

//Manabase [22]
5 Moxen
1 [card]Black Lotus[/card]
1 [card]Mana Crypt[/card]
1 [card]Sol Ring[/card]
1 [card]Lotus Petal[/card]
3 [card]Seat of Synod[/card]
3 [card]Vault of Whispers[/card]
2 [card]Great Furnace[/card]
4 [card]Glimmervoid[/card]
1 [card]Tolarian Academy[/card]

As you can see under it's current build it runs only 53 cards.  Obviously that isn't even legal deck size; that is my concern.  I want it to be fast, explosive and consistant as all hell (truely a technical term Razz).  I have several options at this time as to where this deck should go from this point.

1) It was suggested that [card]Timetwister[/card] be added, I thought at first that this was a poor choice, but recently I was running ravager versus a rogue tog build (not at all good but it served a purpose) and he played [card]wheel of fortune[/card].  After the wheel he went off a little bit and promised I would die next turn.  He never made it to the next turn, I just dropped my entire hand onto the table and he scooped.  
I am now thinking that with the present colors, I have an option in Draw 7's.
So question one is yes or no?
Include [card]Timetwister[/card]?
Include [card]Wheel of Fortune[/card]?
Include [card]Tinker[/card] + [card]Memory Jar[/card]? (I find this the most preferred and there is reasoning for the lack of inclusion in Tinker*)

*Tinker isn't currently included because it is 3 mana to grab an artifact, as it stands I don't have any facts that even would cost me 3 to play.

2) To add to consistancy I was thinking of adding tutors, obviously it would be almost entirely of the black tree.  [card]Demonic Tutor[/card] is the only one I am really missing out on at all and to a minor extent [card]Vampiric Tutor[/card].  The problem with both is they can slow me down (but as a counter arguement: could just as well speed me up).  Demonic is two mana, one of which I would rather be spending on a Disciple.  Vampiric is a topdeck tutor which means I would already have to have a skullclamp which alsomeans that I probably already can win.

Include [card]Demonic Tutor[/card]?
Include [card]Vampiric Tutor[/card]?
Include [card]Mystical Tutor[/card]?

3) The last and one of the most important of my issues is that lack of creatures in the section I so "eliquently" call The Grinder.  The affinity or 1 drops that take a clamping.  The original final choices for such a deck are [card]Ornithopter[/card]* and [card]Arcbound Worker[/card].  I find however that when going for bad speed you want to cycle through everything twice as fast; [card]Myr Moonvessel[/card] is my choice personally, he gives you the mana to continue right along with your kill without having to tap anything for a clampage.

Include [card]Myr Moonvessel[/card]?
Include [card]Arcbound Worker[/card]?
Include [card]Ornithopter[/card]?*

*On a tangent and as a very last mini-issue; another concern is getting around early blockers/lockage.  Ornithopter is also good for snapping on +1/+1 counters.  There is another option however in [card]Fling[/card]
Include [card]Ornithopter[/card] for evasion?
Include [card]Fling[/card]?

Sideboarding will altoghethor depend on the final build of this version of the deck.  The lack of green could be changed in a Aggro-Control version of the deck in which case red wouldn't be needed for it's brute force and speed.  White isn't included although alot of people like the idea of [card]Auriok Steelshaper[/card].  Input would be much obliged, and if disruption is what this deck apparently needs, [card]Duress[/card] is my current thought.
Thank you.
-Spence Hayes
Logged

Team Technology - Strictly better than our previous name.
Morpheus31
Basic User
**
Posts: 6



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2004, 07:15:44 pm »

It is not the right time for this deck.  If you play in a small tornament i suggest trying this but for a large torny there would be to much hate this deck would catch.  This deck would auto loose to null rod and gar/r is a popular 5 proxy deck because it is easy to constuct with 5 proxies.  It is very powerful but automatically loosing to a card that is in many main decks and sideboards does not want to make me play this deck.   good article though
Logged

I love the nightlife, baby, and your mother.
jpmeyer
fancy having a go at it?
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 2390


badplayermeyer
View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2004, 07:15:46 pm »

You don't need to kill before Null Rod hits.  You just need to cast Ravager before Null Rod hits.
Logged

Team Meandeck: "As much as I am a clueless, credit-stealing, cheating homo I do think we would do well to consider the current stage of the Vintage community." -Smmenen
johnstown713
Basic User
**
Posts: 318


Johnstown713
View Profile
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2004, 07:49:45 pm »

I have been playing this for a little bit and love it.  Defintely put in the Timetwister and Wheel of Fortune since they are just broken.  I don't think tinke is worth and the jar is in my deck but I am taing it out.  Here is my build:

Mana:
5 Moxen
1 Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Glimmervoid
3 Great Furnace
3 Vault of Whispers
3 Seat of the Synod

Creatures:
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
3 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Disciple of the Vault
3 Goblin Welder

Spells:
1 Yawg Win
3 Shrapnel Blast
2 Rack and Ruin
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Timetwister
3 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Skullclamp


The Rack and Ruins have proven to carry their weight and I also found that thirst is better than Toughtcast.  this could be since it has synergy with the Welders.  I brought this to the last Waterbury and went 4-4 without even playtesting.  I also forgot to include twister and wheel.  The power and speed of this deck is unbelevable and it even has a good late game.  I also dont scoop to null rod due to glimmervoids.
Logged

Collecting Alpha Mons's Goblin Raiders:

Current Count 148
Spike_Tribop
Basic User
**
Posts: 8


Spike+Tribop
View Profile
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2004, 09:28:08 pm »

This is my current five proxy build:
Ravager Affinity
Critters
3 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
Other Spells
4 Thoughtcast
4 Skullclamp
4 Genesis Chamber
1 Windfall
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Yawgmoth's Will
Mana Sources
4 Glimmervoid
3 Seat of the Synod
3 Vault of Whispers
2 Great Furnace
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
Logged

Signature.
policehq
I voted for Smmenen!
Basic User
**
Posts: 820

p0licehq
View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2004, 10:33:42 am »

Currently I'm not seeing anything that Tolarian Academy could (if drawn) speed up. I think that Arcbound Crushers should go in with deckbuilds that have Genesis Chambers, and Mishra's Workshops/Tolarian Academy/Sol Ring/Moxen/Black Lotus push them into play. They grow really quickly (especially with the draw 7s) and work in a similar way that Ornithopter and Blinkmoth Nexus work in type 2.

I don't think you should be playing artifact lands because of Null Rod's abundance.

Barry
Logged
johnstown713
Basic User
**
Posts: 318


Johnstown713
View Profile
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2004, 10:41:07 am »

Null Rod can be negated by glimmervoid and I also feel that the workshops do not pull their weight in this deck.. They don't seem appropriate and I havent played a game yet where I wish I had one.

Johnstown713
Logged

Collecting Alpha Mons's Goblin Raiders:

Current Count 148
SpencerForHire
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 1473



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2004, 12:28:59 pm »

There is a reason for the lack of workshops and for the inclusion of academy.  [card]Skullclamp[/card] is the king of the crop and runs this deck.  Workshop can be used to speed out nothing because everything is already soo cheap.  Tolarian isn't to drop cards, tolarian is to skullclamp and maybe a tiny bit for the {U} in Thoughtcast.  It equivalantly gives you 1 mana to clamp each creature and a little spare for future creatures you will hit via clampage.  Workshop can't be used to produce clamp mana and it doesn't produce colored, there is not reason for its inclusion.
Logged

Team Technology - Strictly better than our previous name.
ELD
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1462


Eric Dupuis

ericeld1980
View Profile
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2004, 05:48:46 pm »

If I had to run that list and add 7 cards they would be 4xWelder, 1 Tinker, 1 Memory Jar, 1 big fat guy.  

Tinker/Jar/Welders gives a sick draw engine and turns every card you draw into a threat.  I'd go for one fat guy just there to be tinkered for.  Sundering Titan, Platnum Angel, Pentavus whatever, there are lots of good ones to pick from now each with pros/cons.
Logged

unrestrict: Freedom
ArdvarKing
Basic User
**
Posts: 12


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2004, 07:08:21 pm »

I am somewhat adverse to running Skull clamp in some of the builds i am seeing:
a.) It Needs a Creature to eat, and would therefor need more 1/1's other than Disciple, w/o sacking your mites and Enforcers which are nessisary
b.) Null Rod
c.) Potential of Just plain More efficant drawing w/ T2 cards

however i think that in some what more rogue-ish builds it would be alot more apropiate. The solutions exist in addition of gennisis chamber for the easy clamps, also b/c running 4 Workers just to be clamped fills unneed space.

I think that in T1 a more combo-ish version running w/ gennisis chamber, clamp could fuel some large assults....

and just to throw in my 2 cents, i think that thopter should be kept for evasion and an easy affinity drop
Logged
johnstown713
Basic User
**
Posts: 318


Johnstown713
View Profile
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2004, 07:12:39 pm »

Dear God did you just say to not run Skullclamp???WTF   That is one of the sweetest cards in the deck and helps keep it consistant.  Put on a creatue block and then draw cards if you are really desperate.  Have you ever heard of skullclamp and ravager?  It is insane and is a must.

Johnstown713
Logged

Collecting Alpha Mons's Goblin Raiders:

Current Count 148
Kees
Basic User
**
Posts: 8

z_mann@hotmail.com
View Profile
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2004, 04:51:54 am »

maybe adding flings is a good id, to burn-up a big ravager or myr enforcer

ornithopter is a fine card, but will be killed if hes blocks a kird ape or other weenies, maybe phyrexian walker is an id

maybe force of will back up
Logged

No signature, Maybe I'm dead.
johnstown713
Basic User
**
Posts: 318


Johnstown713
View Profile
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2004, 05:30:49 am »

Force of Will is hard to play because you rarely see yourself wanting to pitch a blue card.  You can't really play mana drain either because of the double blue issue.  It is hard to play counters in a deck that only runs off a few lands or moxes.

Johnstonw713
Logged

Collecting Alpha Mons's Goblin Raiders:

Current Count 148
Suckamouf37
Basic User
**
Posts: 61


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2004, 08:09:00 am »

Maybe Mana Leak? Other than that, if you say you can't use Force, I don't know what to suggest in the realm of countermagic.

I definitely think you should play Twister and Wheel, as well as Tinker, Jar, and something huge to Tinker for.
Logged
johnstown713
Basic User
**
Posts: 318


Johnstown713
View Profile
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2004, 09:01:39 am »

There is n sense in playing counters.  They are just not necassary for the deck and I also feel that tinker isn't appropriate.  If you are going to play a big guy to tinker for, when your tinker gets countered your screwed.  This deck doesn't run on that many lands and looks for a fast kill.

Johnstown713
Logged

Collecting Alpha Mons's Goblin Raiders:

Current Count 148
SpencerForHire
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 1473



View Profile
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2004, 10:24:50 am »

Here is my most recent build.

//The Kill [12]
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Shrapnel Blast

//The Grinder [13]
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Frogmite
3 Ornithopter
1 Genesis Chamber
1 Pentavus

//The Draw [7]
2 Thoughtcast
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Skullclamp

//The Auto-Win [6]
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoths Will
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Memory Jar

//Manabase [22]
5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
3 Seat of Synod
3 Vault of Whispers
2 Great Furnace
4 Glimmervoid
1 Tolarian Academy

The pentavus along with the genesis chamber is ridiculous for clamp fodder.

Now for answering your comments...
@ArdvarKing: a) The tokens created by pentavus and genesis chamber.  And the frogmite and enforcer are excellent for eating.  In type 2 this deck runs barely any 1/1's and clamp why should it run any worse in Type 1.  b) Just go faster then null rod, if a rod drops you can still aggro them to death.  c) This baby is beautiful ([card]skullclamp[/card]) it's so good it might even get the boot in type 2.  Why would this not be the key to the deck in t1.  I wouldn't jump to conclusions unless you've run the clamp yourself.  It is ridiculous.

@Kees: Have you read [card]Ornithopter[/card] at the cost of one toughness over [card]Phyrexian Walker[/card] he flies.
Force of will requires the removal of blue cards.  I don't have tat many.  

@Johnstown713: You make alot of sense about counters and disruption which is why I haven't been running them.  The biggy ([card]Pentavus[/card]) for the tinker is just optional it is mainly in for the jar combo, I also like the idea of being able to ditch a land to tutor a ravager or a genesis chamber.

I am also going to start testing [card]Sphere of Resistance[/card] as SB disruption versus control and combo decks that could have the ability to outrace this deck.

Just out of curiosity, whoever moved this to the Newbie Forum I am just interested in knowing why so I can improve further posting...  I had detail about the deck choices and the deck wasn't just some concept I pulled out of my *** Wink.  Thanks i'm JC
Logged

Team Technology - Strictly better than our previous name.
Spike_Tribop
Basic User
**
Posts: 8


Spike+Tribop
View Profile
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2004, 09:07:16 pm »

The entire Tinker+Memory Jar thing really hurts more than it helps. I know that in theory it would make the deck better since it allows more drawing and thus more free threats but it is a much faster and overall better deck if you include multiple Genesis Chambers instead. The same goes for Pentavus which I also think should be a Genesis Chamber. The card is amazing in this deck and no matter when it comes out it will be an active threat since we are always drawing into more creatures.
Logged

Signature.
Colossus
Basic User
**
Posts: 47

CyanMerdonna
View Profile
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2004, 01:51:23 pm »

Quote
The entire Tinker+Memory Jar thing really hurts more than it helps.

Thank you!  The only tutor that belongs near this deck is Tinker, and the only card it should tinker for is skullclamp or ravager.  Memory Jar is slower than mud!  Why not run workshops?  I mean, worst case 1 shop, one ornithopter, and there's your frogmite?

The best 1/1 for the job is the artcbound worker- you clamp him, draw 2 cards and make you're Ornithopter bigger (or ravager if you have him).

Anything that is a fatty and or the Goblin Welder just slows the deck down.  In the end the more focused you are, the more you will win.

By the way- Genesis Chamber is terrible.  WHy test a card that has been ruled too terrible to use in the type Ii version of the deck here?[/quote]
Logged
Spike_Tribop
Basic User
**
Posts: 8


Spike+Tribop
View Profile
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2004, 02:12:03 pm »

Quote
Why test a card that has been ruled too terrible to use in the type II version of the deck here?


Because there is far less aggro in this environment.
The Chamber really helps against control as we gain free clamp fodder and in matches against Fish and other random aggro I can just play combat damage games by moving my Ravager's counter to an unchecked Myr.
Logged

Signature.
Username?
Basic User
**
Posts: 11

bobthelawyer1234
View Profile Email
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2004, 03:01:15 am »

try adding demoic tutor, a. recall
Logged
RockForBrain
Basic User
**
Posts: 1

Dolfan+SK
View Profile Email
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2004, 11:16:17 am »

I think that spike has a good build, but over all the deck isn't really meant for t1.  Any deck that wants to beat ravager can and will beat it. I just don't see the deck beak such decks as Hulk and Dragon.
Logged
ctthespian
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 224



View Profile
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2004, 12:05:46 pm »

Arcbound Crushers are insane in this deck.  Also triskellion with Ravagers or a Dying crusher are also insane for adding many +1/+1 counters to the Triskellion.

I've been expiermenting with worldly tutors to get tech creatures simialr to the way TNT uses survival.  That allows me to run less disciples and fit critters in like a Trisk, Uktabi (for null rods) and other possibilites like: Vedalken Archmage, Duplicant, Sundering Titan and Steelshaper.

I also run workshops and 3/4 Genesis chambers.  Welders are also currently in my main build.  Crushers are the key and are insane if dropped first turn.

-Keith
Logged

Alpha Underground Sea = $200
Alpha Black Lotus = $1000
Knowing that I can build almost any deck in T1 and have it be black bordered. = Priceless
Spike_Tribop
Basic User
**
Posts: 8


Spike+Tribop
View Profile
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2004, 07:15:23 pm »

Here is what I've been playing to battle the MD Rods.

Ravager Affinity
Critters
4 Ornithopter
3 Viashino Heretic
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
Other Spells
4 Thoughtcast
4 Skullclamp
3 Genesis Chamber
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Windfall
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Yawgmoth's Will
Mana Sources
4 Glimmervoid
3 Seat of the Synod
3 Great Furnace
2 Vault of Whispers
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald

The Heratics are what I found to work best but there is probably something better. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.
-Spike
Logged

Signature.
Spike_Tribop
Basic User
**
Posts: 8


Spike+Tribop
View Profile
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2004, 08:32:39 pm »

Err...ignore that.
Here is my current list.

Ravager Affinity
Critters
4 Ornithopter
3 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
Other Spells
4 Thoughtcast
4 Skullclamp
2 Genesis Chamber
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Windfall
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Yawgmoth's Will
Mana Sources
4 Glimmervoid
3 Seat of the Synod
3 Vault of Whispers
2 Great Furnace
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald

Sideboard
4 Tree of Tales
4 Oxidize
2 Stifle
2 Duress
1 Disciple of the Vault
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Genesis Chamber
Logged

Signature.
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.154 seconds with 21 queries.