Military Training Cycle (C/U/R)

[Ephraim]

Basic Training

Enchant Creature
~This~ comes into play with one training counter on it.
During your upkeep, remove a training counter from ~this~.
As long as ~this~ has no training counters on it, enchanted creature gets +1/+1 and attacking doesn't cause it to tap.

Advanced Training
{W}
Enchant Creature
~This~ comes into play with two training counters on it.
During your upkeep, remove a training counter from ~this~.
As long as ~this~ has no training counters on it, enchanted creature gets +2/+2 and has first strike.

Elite Training
{W}{W}
Enchant Creature
~This~ comes into play with three training counters on it.
During your upkeep, remove a training counter from ~this~.
As long as ~this~ has no training counters on it, enchanted creature gets +3/+3 and has double strike.

***

Without the delay, each of these enchantments would be extremely powerful for its cost and rarity (okay, okay - the common one is mediocre no matter how you slice it). The delay reflects the time it takes for the creature to reach that level of military expertise.

I'm considering a possible modification to the way these work, but I want to get input on the idea first. The alternative possibility would be that when the training counters are gone, the creature gets one or more +1/+1 counters and gains the granted ability permanently. That makes the wait a little more bearable. That way your enchantment doesn't survive long enough to grant the creature abilities, but then get disenchanted before the creature gets a chance to use them.

Possible wording: When ~this~ has no counters on it, sacrifice ~this~. If you do, put (#) +1/+1 counters on enchanted creature. Enchanted creature gains (ability) (This effect doesn't end at end of turn)

[Ephraim]

Current Wording:

Humble Squireship
{W}
Enchant Creature
Fading 1
When you remove the last fade counter from ~this~, put a +1/+1 counter on enchanted creature, it gains "attacking doesn't cause this creature to tap.", and is a Squire in addition to its creature types. (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)


Dutiful Enlistment
{1}{W}
Enchant Creature
Fading 2
When you remove the last fade counter from ~this~, put two +1/+1 counters on enchanted creature, it gains first strike, and is a Soldier in addition to its creature types. (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)


Rhadamanthine Knighthood
{2}{W}{W}
Enchant Creature
Fading 3
When you remove the last fade counter from ~this~, put three +1/+1 counters on enchanted creature, it gains double striike, and is a Knight in addition to its creature types. (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)

[Ephraim]

This got buried under a pile of cards closed and added, so I wanted to bounce it back to the top of the forum.

[Sheera]

Wouldn't the rare one be much better, if it were a global enchantment that enhanced each creature you control? Though they exist, I somehow dislike rare enchant creature cards.

[Ephraim]

You're right that it would be more powerful. If I were to go that route (and I'm not, it's much too strong), I'd probably have to increase the delay and/or make it cost more. Giving just one creature +3/+3 and Double Strike is going to lead to a severe beating, as it is.

[Ephraim]

I changed these so that they're sacrificed when they have no counters on them and grant the power/toughness gains and the ability permanently. It would be far too frustrating to put up with the delay these require only to have them disenchanted at the last second. The fact that you're giving your opponent multiple turns to deal with the effect before you reap the benefits of your spell is more than enough of a drawback, I think.

[Jebus]

Needs to be "At the beginning of your upkeep..."

[Ephraim]

Bah. What the heck!? Right after you mentioned that in the other thread, I fixed it here, too. I wonder if I forgot to click "submit" or something.

[graedus]

Here is some feedback


Basic Training

Wording: "... and gains "Attacking doesn't cause this creature to tap."
General thoughts: I like the name and concept. I think it is a bit overpowered for a common since you are removing the ovious drawback of creature enchantments. I would up one turn the delay of the effect and reduce in one toughness. Comparing this card to its closest equivalent, dragon scales, this card is undercosted by 1 and has no other relevant benefits.


Advanced training

Only name ideas, perhaps Seasoning Duty,


Elite training

Name ideas: Battle Mastering, Veteran's Code
General thoughts: This is an ÜBER crappy rare!. My suggestion is to drop one W of the casting cost, and give the two +1/+1 counters right away. I like the idea of both first strike and doesn't tap to attack instead of doublestrike. Look at Serra's embrace, its better and just uncommon!

[Ephraim]

I'm going to leave the names as is, for the time being. They're uninspired, but they definitely unify the cards as a cycle.

I don't think that Basic Training is undercosted at all. The one-turn wait is a fairly large cost, even if you do get the upgrades permanently. Dragon Scales happened immediately, boosted the toughness by one more, and had an additional ability that let it be reanimated for free. Basic Training seems markedly worse to me, so it merits the decreased mana cost.

I think you may have slightly misread Elite Training somewhat. It grants three +1/+1 counters, not two. I'm not saying that makes it a whole lot better. I want other opinions on this one, though. I hadn't really looked at the case of Serra's Embrace, but with the delay, this does seem somewhat worse than the Embrace. If this took hold immediately, it'd be incredibly powerful at its current price. Have I underestimated how much I could get away with in the rare in this cycle?

[walkingdude]

Remember not all rares should be constructed quality. I think maro in one of his articles said that about 1/3 was the high end and that that was pushing it.

Besides unless this is truly abusive (armadillo cloak or rancor) this isn’t getting playing in constructed because of the innate card disadvantage risk. So making it stronger would only make it one of those cards that’s annoyingly good in casual (like congregate, but less broken). I think the power level is good as it.

[Ephraim]

Good call, Walking Dude. I think I'm going to initiate the...

24 Hour Clock

[Jacob Orlove]

Cocoon was completely unplayable, and it gave flying and +1/+1 for G. None of these are too good, but they're bad in a nice way. Maybe we could unify the set more with a series of brief quotes, as a soldier advances?

Also, it might be better if it was like "footsoldier training, knighthood training, paladin training" (but with a better set of names), and it conveyed the requisite creature type.

[Ephraim]

I don't know if there's room for flavour text on these. In fact, I'd appreciate it if a templater could make sure that there's room for all of the rules text!

I also think that these are somewhat better than cocoon. Granted, cocoon only costed , but it took three turns to yield those meagre results and kept the creature tapped down, in the meanwhile.

Also, Paladin is no longer a creature type. However, it seems that the creature type squire is still on the books, so I will happily change them so that they result in a Squire, a Soldier, and a Knight.

Edit: Oops. Paladin actually is still a valid creature type. Oh well, I think it's cooler to bring back Squire, anyhow.

[Jacob Orlove]

Making demons into paladins would have been weird anyway. That's why I wanted a better set of names--and yours are good.

[Ephraim]

I must confess, I'm rather proud of the adjectives that came to mind on this one. Not only do the enchantments increase in rank, but the adjectives proceed as well. The squire accepts his training because he's expected to, the soldier because it is right, and the knight because it is his privilege.

[Ephraim]

These are functionally a little bit different than they were before, so I'll restart the 24 Hour Clock.

[Matt]

These are way too long. Perhaps using fading would shorten them.

[Ephraim]

I should've thought of using fading. It shortened the text by several lines, so I hope that fixes the problem.

[Matt]

They're still really long once you change the "~this~"s to include their real names.

[Ephraim]

I'm looking for suggestions on these. I'm not really sure how to shorten the text anymore. Is there a less cumbersome way to describe the effect I want to do? Should I just make it so that they enchantment confers the benefits, rather than using counters and gained abilities? That'd make these even weaker, but it would shorten the text.

[Ephraim]

Would this text work? Also note that I gave this card Fading 1 before, which doesn't cause it to get sacrificed the turn after you play it, which is what I initially wanted.

Humble Squireship

Enchant Creature
Fading 0
If you sacrifice ~this~ because of fading, put a +1/+1 counter on enchanted creature, it gains "attacking doesn't cause this creature to tap.", and is a Squire in addition to its creature types. (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)

[Ocifer]

I, personally, would use this template:

Humble Squireship
W
Enchant Creature
Fading 1
Whenever ~this~ has no fade counters, put a +1/+1 counter on enchanted creature, it gains "attacking doesn't cause this creature to tap.", and is a Squire in addition to its creature types. (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)

Also, I would suggest reducing the cost of the rare card by 1 and finding a different mechanic than Double Strike. It not only seems excessive (as in a "you win" card) but also just doesn't seem to fit the theme right. Giving the knight both abilities may well be the best answer, though I imagine there is a white ability out there that is being overlooked (protection or pump maybe).

[Ephraim]

I don't think that wording works correctly. The "whenever" trigger will trigger multiple times, won't it? You don't sacrifice the enchantment immediately upon removal of the last fade counter. You sacrifice it the following turn, when you can't remove a fading counter.

Could I use something like this, though:

When you remove the last fade counter from ~this~, <do stuff>.

It's a little bit shorter, it has an unambiguous trigger and I don't think it violates any rules about what can or cannot be a trigger. I'm going to change the wording to that.

As far as the power level of the rare, I don't think it's all that high. You give your opponent three turns to destroy the enchantment or the creature and you can't even play the card until you hit four mana. It's been previously noted that these are, in fact, rather wimpy, and I tend to agree. I'd also rather not change what each of the enchantments grants. The three abilities are all white in flavour and are ranked accordingly by power. I think that Double Strike makes the rare powerful enough to be interesting and perhaps worth the wait. "Vigilance" and first strike together aren't nearly so good, I think.

[combo_dude]

Would Fading 1 with a "when you remove a fade counter from ~this~, do {this}" work? As long as the creature gains the ability permanently, rather than the enchantment giving the creature the ability itself, then that should work.

[Ephraim]

It complicates the interaction with Parallax Inhibitor, which I wish to maintain.

[combo_dude]

By "it complicates", does that mean that you want to let the creature get bigger and bigger with Inhibitor, or not?

However, I don't know how this could be worded for the bigger enchantments. It would almost certainly have to be "when you remove the last fading counter from ~this~..." - then Parallax Inhibitor makes a pretty cool trick with the last one (giving it +6/+6 and double strike).

[Ephraim]

Yeah, I was mistaken. It doesn't work in either case. With your initial suggestion, "When you remove a fade counter from ~this~..." the small one would give its bonus twice with a Parallax Inhibitor. With my wording, all of them can give a counter twice.

The interaction I wanted to preserve with Parallax Inhibitor was that it would increase the training time. I hadn't thought about it making these better. However, it's still a combo involving creature enchantments and a crap rare. Are we okay with this, people?

[Jacob Orlove]

Honestly, even if there was a lethal 2-card combo with the inhibitor, people probably wouldn't mind. This is fine.

[Ephraim]

Very well. 24 Hour Clock.