Need help with a sideboard for u/r landstill!!

[slighguy]

Okay let me first appolagize for the bad typing due to a broken hand and not sleeping very much(havent slept in 3 days).
       I have just recently built a u/r landstill deck and I need help with a sideboard and I also could use any info on the deck(good matchups,bad matchups,etc). I am not entirely sure how this deck plays out cause i am new at control but as far as I can figure you just try to keep stuff off the board and counter vital spells that could really ruin someones day.Ok now that part I get but the part I dont get is when do you start to go on the offensive and start beating with your manlands.I know that once you have board control it should be ok to start beating but I always tap out to attack and what i wanted to know is if thats the right play or should i just attack with 1 man land a turn untill I have enough mana stability to attack with more or should i just go for the throat from the start??

     Anyway let me post my decklist and i hope to get some responses.

counters//
4-force of will
4-mana drain
3-misderection(foil)
3-stifle(foil)
draw//
4-standstill(3 foil,1azn foil)
1-ancestral recall
1-timewalk
utility//
1-teferis response
4-fire/ice(normal )
3-chain of vapor(normal )
4-disk(bb,azn,signed)
mana//
1-mox sapphire
1-mox ruby
1-library of alexandria
1-strip mine
4-wasteland(foil)
4-mishras factory(spring pic)
4-faerie conclaves(foil)
5-beta island
4-volcanic island
3-flooded strand(foil)


 Ok Ithought about putting  LOA in the missing slot but that would make 28 mana sources which seemed like alot to me but i do wanna run the Loa but I need help figuring out what to cut??

anyway I have done a listtle testing and I have a bad matchup against food chain goblins 30/70 and the control match seems more in my favor like 60/40 but thats from minimal testing and I am not sure about the combo match but thats why i put this list up here and posted this thread(to get help on how to play this deck and all of its good,bad matchups)

And before you say to use the search for info on this deck I already have and most of the info I got was on gay red and fish and I feel these are totaly different decks that may play out the same but I want info on landstill and not those decks so I had to post this thread.

oh and here is the temporary sideboard that i need help with

3-reb
2-slice and dice
2-maze of ith
2-misderection
1-chain of vapor
1-dust bowl
2-beb
2-tormods crypt


I feel that this sideboard deffinetlly needs to be changed but since I am not sure what the good and bad mathups for this deck is I dont know how to make a SB for this deck so this is where I need the most help!![/b]

[Abakar]

Bad matchup vs food chain goblin?  The combo will never work vs landstill (stiffle, CoV, disk and counters), you got plenty of tools to deal with their creatures which are a little slower than in a normal aggro deck, so the matchup is highly in your favor.  Do not include anything for that matchup. As for control, it should actually be a little more than 60/40 if you play well...

However, I would cut a misdirection as they are not that useful these days and the deck does not need counters that much.  I would also cut 2 CoV for 3 lightning bolt.  With 4 CoV, you will have problems vs some good aggro, also the deck does not like dead cards and CoV can often be dead while bolts are really powerful... a control deck with so much damage potential is too much for many decks.

As for the mana base, I found the mox ruby to be useless most of the time, but this is really debatable, as for library, it is not good in the deck, it is great, you want to play on and you want to play at least 28 mana, that is the minimum I would consider.  However, I prefer to cut an island for a dust bowl which is really good.  I would also include lotus if you have one (I would swap it with mox ruby if I were you).

Finally for the sideboard I usually play:
2 Teferi's response
3 Tormod's crypt
2 Energy Flux
3 Maze of Ith
3 Red Elemental blast
2 Chalice of the void

This provides great tools for most decks you will encounter.

Blue blast are not needed unless you play your 4 CoV, in wihch case I don't know what I would remove from the sideboard.

[slighguy]

okay i have updated the deck and please tell me what you think.

[Abakar]

Well whatever you choose to play, I still gave you what I thought was the optimal version... I personally do not like your sideboard, but it depends on your metagame... however, from my experience, I found Energy Flux to be really good against most artifacts decks which are found everywhere these days (even though most people prefer rack and ruin).  I personally like to have tools against the decks that you are likely to find in top 8, so some side vs slaver is pretty good, not that you should worry that much about that matchup, but still...

One thing though, fire/ice is just twice as good as lightning bolt, do not cut one.

[MarkPharaoh]

Bad matchup vs food chain goblin? The combo will never work vs landstill

FCG is a soso matchup as they won't even try to combo you out but go the beatdown route.  You MUST have an answer to a turn1 Lackey or the Landstill player is done.

However, I would cut a misdirection as they are not that useful these days and the deck does not need counters that much.

This statement tells me how illexperienced at Landstill you are.  Landstill is all about control.  It has a slow ass win condition and doesn't really run broken cards such as Tog, Slaver, or Memnarch.  I think once or twice I went down to two Misdirections and within an hour I went back up to three, it's the optimal number and many will agree on this.

You MUST have 4 Fire/Ice in this deck, no exceptions!  Cut the 3 Bolts for 2 Teferi's and the 4th Fire/Ice unless you run in a lot of aggro.  Add the LoA, Landstill wants to drop a land every turn so 28 mana sources is fine.  Cut the Ruby for the Black Lotus or Lotus Petal.

As for the sideboard, I think 4 REB is a must against things like Hulk.  I would probably also pack a third Teferi's for any deck with 5 Strips.  Maze of Ith, CotV, and Crypts are all fine choices.  I would help you out more but I have no clue what your metagame looks like.

[Hi-Val]

Cut Misdirections. I put 2 Annul in their place, which is a card that actually wins games. Think about all the cards that MisD affects vs. Annul and you'll see why it's good. Basically, it nails Blood Moon and can catch stuff from a Chain bounce. It's a very strong card. I also see you running 3 Stifle, which is necessary to win the Gay Red and mirror match.

Hint: in the mirror or Gay Red, SIDE OUT STANDSTILLS. It comes down to who can Stifle a Wasteland first.

[Abakar]

This statement tells me how illexperienced at Landstill you are. Landstill is all about control. It has a slow ass win condition and doesn't really run broken cards such as Tog, Slaver, or Memnarch. I think once or twice I went down to two Misdirections and within an hour I went back up to three, it's the optimal number and many will agree on this.

Hum... you better go back to your math class my friend, do you have any idea of the probability of having a misdirection in your hand when you need it when you run 3 vs when you run 2 during a one hour period (about 4 games...), no need to make the calculation, I know it's not significant enough to justify your comments... If I were you, I would not insult one's play experience without being able to back your comments by meaningful arguments.  Also, did I ever say landstill is not about control? I said the deck was not all about counters which is true, the deck cannot run on counters without board control so misdirection are not that useful, that being said, running 3 is still very good, but there are better cards in my opinion.

FCG is a soso matchup as they won't even try to combo you out but go the beatdown route. You MUST have an answer to a turn1 Lackey or the Landstill player is done.

Well, it's true that if you play no bolt you will have problem against this deck, I really don't get it when people cut the bolts, you need 1cc removal to kill first turns creatures in order to play your second turn standstill...

You MUST have 4 Fire/Ice in this deck, no exceptions! Cut the 3 Bolts for 2 Teferi's and the 4th Fire/Ice unless you run in a lot of aggro. Add the LoA, Landstill wants to drop a land every turn so 28 mana sources is fine. Cut the Ruby for the Black Lotus or Lotus Petal.

Teferi's response no longer make the cut, stiffle is way more versatile, something the deck needs, a dead card can cost you the game, this often is dead.  Basically, you weaken your aggro match-up to add 2 responses which are good against your better matchup... In my opinion, 3 bolts are a must too.

[MarkPharaoh]

Hum... you better go back to your math class my friend

I don't need to.  I know this deck inside and out and unless you have 100+ hours clocked into this deck don't talk down to me like i'm some scrub who just started to play this deck.  Since one card doesn't make a difference, lets cut a Nevs Disk because the propability of drawing one isn't THAT much lower then having four.  Hell lets go down to 3 FoW and 3 Standstill as well...I don't care how small the margin is from drawing a Mis-D if you run 2 or 3, their is a margin, thus some games when you WANT the Mis-D you won't draw it if you have 2 but will if you have 3.

I really don't get it when people cut the bolts

Both me and Shock Wave like the Bolts but everytime we add them we end up cutting them for better cards.  Cards like CoV is just an overall better card then Bolt.

As for Response, some people run it, some don't.  I sometimes run and I sometimes cut it.  The good thing about this card is for it's surprise factor and it pitches to FoW/Mis-D in matches where you don't want it, but last time I checked, a good amount of FCG lists do run 5 Strips.  

As for Annul, thats really EXTREME.  I have ran them in the past but they are as situational as Response, if not more.  If you see a good amount of Workshops then it's a good possibility but otherwise I wouldn't recommend it.

[slighguy]

ok i have changed the decklist again and would like to know your thoughts.better,worse??

[ProZachar]

Here's my experience playing Landstill for 4 months:

Lightning bolt is more or less as good as the aggro you expect to face.  Though it is nice for a control deck to have ways to "just win".  Against decks that have few creatures, I've been known to hold on to my Bolts, get them down to 6 or 8 and double Bolt + Fire for the win.  

Misdirection is as good as the control and burn-based Sligh is.  I played 2; I rarely felt the need to run 3.  But I think that's a metagame call.

Teferi's response is only as good as Wastelands/Dust Bowls/Maze of Ith are prevelant.  If you have to deal with them a lot, TR is utterly awesome.  I ran 3 and loved them.

Stifle is only as good as combo.  I don't think Stifling fetchlands is a good call for this deck to do.  You can Stifle Wastelands, but I'd rather Response them.  I didn't run any stifles and never regretted it.

Sideboard:

Blue Elemental Blast is necessary.  Blood Moon devastates this deck.  

Red Elemental Blast is necessary if you face a lot of Blue.  Tech play:  If someone is playing a blue {creature, enchantment} spell that you want to counter with REB, let the spell resolve (unless it's an immediate "I win" card or Standstill, obviously) and use the "destroy" mode of REB.  Misdirect can't change modes, so if there's not another blue permanent in play, Mis-D'ing a REB doesn't do much.

Maze of Ith is good at stopping the aggro tide.  It's also decent in man-land type mirrors.

Crypt helps against graveyard combo and Welder decks.

DB is another good card in man-land mirrors.

I didn't run any CotV, but I didn't see much combo that Chalice for 0 or 1 would stop.

Trade Routes is another card I've seen Landstill players run.  I could never figure out what to cut to fit it in, though.

My SB was something like:

4 REB
4 BEB
3 Crypt
3 Maze of Ith
1 Dust Bowl

[Abakar]

I don't need to. I know this deck inside and out and unless you have 100+ hours clocked into this deck don't talk down to me like i'm some scrub who just started to play this deck.

Even though I do have over 100 hours experience with the deck, I still do not think it gives me the right to talk to you like you are a scrub, and I am sorry if that is what you got from my post.

All I was trying to say is that your statement saying that you removed a misdirection and put it back in after one hour of playtest is not relevent in the discussion as the difference between the two decks cannot be seen in a one hour period.  My comments would hold for FoW and Standstill as well, if you tell me that you played with 3 for an hour and realized it was bad, it would still not mean anything.  However, I am very much able to see that testing is not required to reach the decision to run 4, maybe you think the same of misdirection and I have no problem with that, but don't tell me I know nothing of the deck because I run 2.

Both me and Shock Wave like the Bolts but everytime we add them we end up cutting them for better cards. Cards like CoV is just an overall better card then Bolt.

Good for you, I have not found CoV to be that much better than bolt, but I did play 3 bolts and 2 CoV as I believe I have said earlier, if I were to cut the 3 bolts, I would add the 2 missing 2 CoV and whatever card not a misdirection and 2 teferi's response.  You need 1 cc removal.

As for Response, some people run it, some don't. I sometimes run and I sometimes cut it. The good thing about this card is for it's surprise factor and it pitches to FoW/Mis-D in matches where you don't want it, but last time I checked, a good amount of FCG lists do run 5 Strips.

I do not really like the Response when facing aggro, I prefer my bolts, but it's true it provides a surprise factor... I still prefer stiffle.


That being said, last time I played the deck I tried a Uwr version which I really liked as white allowed me to win a few matches I would have lost otherwise (I swapped 3 bolt for 3 StP and 2 CoV for 2 Decree).  However, I would not even consider that version if you expect to see BtB or Blood Moon... have you tested that version MarkPharaoh?

[MarkPharaoh]

Even though I do have over 100 hours experience with the deck, I still do not think it gives me the right to talk to you like you are a scrub, and I am sorry if that is what you got from my post.

Don't worry about it, I have an ego and get very defensive when it comes to my pet deck.

All I was trying to say is that your statement saying that you removed a misdirection and put it back in after one hour of playtest is not relevent in the discussion

Sorry, my statement was a bit cryptic.  What I meant was that I quickly switched back to three Misdirections, but in no ways was it an hour (sorry for the misconception).

Good for you, I have not found CoV to be that much better than bolt, but I did play 3 bolts and 2 CoV as I believe I have said earlier, if I were to cut the 3 bolts, I would add the 2 missing 2 CoV and whatever card not a misdirection and 2 teferi's response. You need 1 cc removal.

I consider CoV to be more flexable then Bolt.  It pitches, it's your main color and it won't back fire on you since the only thing to bounce is your Disk.

I do not really like the Response when facing aggro, I prefer my bolts, but it's true it provides a surprise factor... I still prefer stiffle.

My list ran 4 Stifle and 2 Responses.  But I will agree, Stifle is simply better.

I have no tried Uwr because i've seen it in action and other Landstill players I know who tried it out said it was crappy so I stayed away from it.  I mainly just focus on Urg and Urb versions.

[Hi-Val]

Annul is extreme? At the WORST it catches moxes.

Misdirection is good in a deck with permanents that it needs to protect. Landstill has none of these. It's better to run something that's more useful like Annul than MisD. MisD has one use in Landstill: winning counter wars. That's really freaking narrow. It's a good ability, but honestly, how many spells does landstill need to resolve?

You can make a point about how it steals Ancestrals and stuff, but for each one of those you say that you stole, I can bring up a countered Gilded Lotus or 7/10 that won me  the game.

What deck in T1 doesn't run artifacts or enchantments, vs what deck doesn't run misdirectable spells? The former is much less than the latter.

[MarkPharaoh]

Unless your playing against Workshop.dec all day Annul is horrible compared to Mis-D...WOW, you can counter an off color Mox, good job!  I'd much rather Mis-D your Force that every deck seems to have then counter your Mox.

Misdirection is good in a deck with permanents that it needs to protect

Last time I checked, you have to swing with manlands which I consider a permanent that needs to be protected and nevs Disk needs to be protected for a turn before you're able to crack it.

[Pomaxx]

honestly my advices result from playing 2 tournaments with Landstill- which might not  be enough to conclude something- even for myself- but nevertheless i am totally convinced by my statements (so far). I placed 12th and 5th at Duelmen with almost the same decklist.

1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Misdirection
4 Standstill
3 Stifle
1 Time Walk
4 Fire/Ice
2 Decree of Justice
1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Swords to Plowshares
 


Lands (26):
1 Adarka Wastes
2 Faerie Conclave
2 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
4 Tundra
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
 
Sideboard
 3 Dust to Dust
2 Exalted Angel
3 Maze of Ith
3 Orim's Chant
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Swords to Plowshares



Personally i think my sideboard is now outdated; i also did some MB changes (switch enlightened to MisD). Everything is a metagame choice.
I expect alot of GERMBUS, Belcher, Slaver and some random Aggro as well as Combo(Dragon). I like the U/W/r version better, because of the offered removal StP and SB surprises (Exalteds). So the actual version looks like this:

1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Misdirection
4 Standstill
3 Stifle
1 Time Walk
4 Fire/Ice
2 Decree of Justice
3 Swords to Plowshares
 


Lands (26):
1 Adarka Wastes
2 Faerie Conclave
2 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
4 Tundra
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
 
SB:
2 Exalted Angel(think about moving one to the MD; cause i do play one less conclave and need an additional Kill option)
2 Maze of Ith
3 Gilded Drake
2 Rack and Ruin
2 Null Rod
4 ReB/ Pyroblast


Drakes are in to defeat GERMBUS/ AGGRO after SBing.
Yu can never have too much Rebs against control after boarding- so i went to 4.
Null Rods :my replacements for O.Chants to battle Belcher/StaX/Slaver-they offer more flexibility but i am not sure about it yet (chants were GREAT against Belcher- look at his hand when he plays Landgrant and playing Chant at the right moment won me games)
R&R as well as Mazes purposes are clear, the most controversial choice might be Exalted Angel. They come in against Aggro which is obvious- but also in the Mirror and against Decks where i would like to leave all my mana open AND set a fast clock.(sure i cant play Exalted under standstill- but that does not matter as you can simply shift your playstyle to "wait- drain- Exalted- standstill")- Oh, and usually Landstill games dont last so
fucking long when u play with Angels!
I always liked Landstill for consistancy and hated it for lack of Brokeness compared to Keeper and other decks packing Will/Mindtwist and so on, so i try to evolve the SB to have an edge after game one.

[Shock Wave]

That's an interesting list Pomaxx. I am personally not a fan of 3 colour Landstill as it introduces inconsistencies that I am not comfortable with. However, European metagames generally don't feature a lot of Wastelands so mana denial may not be an issue for you.

I think the best aspect of your list is that it is something different and not an exact copy of the primer list. Too many people playing this deck either play it totally incorrectly or *build* it incorrectly. Any good control player understands the importance of making adjustments for their metagame, and this list clearly indicates a well-thought out strategy for said environment (although, some choices are a little peculiar).

Oh, and Annul is an absolutely atrocious maindeck choice unless you're playing against Slavery and 7/10 all day. Who plays cards that typically go 1 for 1 with moxes at best!?

[slighguy]

Ok when I posted this list I did not mention my meta which was a mistake but what I run into in my metagame is just a bunch of control like germbus,hulk,Gat,and lots of other random decks that you see everywhere like sui,sligh,stompy of the oshuwa kind and random rogue decks like reaplace and some type2 control crap.I think this is normal of most new england metagames from what I have seen in the past but as of lately the meta game has turned into fcg.meta and i really need help figuring out how to build my MD an SB to adjust to said decks.Oh and i almost never see combo at all(draw7,dragon,belcher,etc).

[OPColby]

I run URB Landstill (black added, which helps insanely to the deck,)

And this is what I run in the sideboard:

4 Red Elemental Blast (any kind of blue based control and the mirror)
3 Maze of Ith (tog gets slain, also good for the mirror)
3 Tormod's Crypt (dragon, other graveyard-based decks - I'm thinking about substituting 3 BEB's in for these...they really don't help all that much)
2 Perish (For Oshawa Stompy, I can actually have an over 50% in this matchup with these)
1 Slice and Dice (anything running decree of justice)
1 Chain of Vapor (I don't run cunning wishes maindeck, this is just here in case)
1 Mind Twist (control)

If I wasn't running black...I would run this:

4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Maze of Ith
2 Slice and Dice
2 Tormod's Crypt

The Blue Elemental Blasts help out more than most people think.  For your meta, they might do well.  Any deck that has red in it will be running 4 REB's for the sideboard, so they always help there.

To avoid posting two copies of the same post, only hit Submit once. Extraneous copy deleted. -Dr. Sylvan

[Abakar]

What do you guys play in the main deck with black or green?

[FreddieNDB]

This is my current Landstill deck list, I run U/W because I love DoJ so much.

// control
        4 Swords to Plowshares
        4 Nevinyrral's Disk
        4 Force of Will
        4 Mana Drain
        3 Stifle
        2 Misdirection
        2 Chain of Vapor
// draw
        1 Fact or Fiction
        4 Standstill
        1 Ancestral Recall
// utility
        3 Decree of Justice
        1 Time Walk
// mana
        4 Mishra's Factory
        4 Flooded Strand
        4 Wasteland
        4 Tundra
        3 Faerie Conclave
        3 Island
        1 Strip Mine
        1 Library of Alexandria
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Pearl
// sideboard
SB:  3 Serenity
SB:  2 Humility
SB:  2 Tormod's Crypt
SB:  2 Meddling Mage
SB:  2 Disenchant
SB:  2 Chalice of the Void
SB:  2 Blue Elemental Blast

I don't run teferi's response because it has never been very useful to me and it takes up too many slots IMO for its use. I'd much rather stifle a wasteland for U then tefri's it for 1U and not be able to respond to anything else.

For misdirection I run 2 because I don't find many things that I can misdirect and on top of that it's more cards lost. If you have too many misdirects and FoW's in hand then you have trouble finding the blue cards to back them up and even then I have trouble throwing away those important blue spells.

I also run one less faerie because I find them too slow and would prefer the extra flooded strand to get some quicker mana.

As to using annuls in place of misdirections, thats obviously a metagame call, but of course its only useful in a meta with a lot of artifacts. I would much rather replace misdirections with mana leak than annul.

as for SB options for U/R this is my SB for a U/R build

SB:  2 Energy Flux
SB:  2 Tormod's Crypt
SB:  4 Red Elemental Blast
SB:  3 Rack and Ruin
SB:  2 Chalice of the Void
SB:  2 Blue Elemental Blast

Dustbowl definately does not fit in Landstill at all because it starts destroying your colored mana which you never want to do when you are playing.

Maze of Ith isn't a favorite choice for me as you have other options against Hulk like REB and tormods crypt and I like to have mroe options  my SB

Chalice is a strong choice IMO, but I can also see it being dropped for a different choice (possibly even for Maze of Ith's). Also, energy flux can be dropped since your SB is already packing R&R.

These are just my suggestions, you can metagame accordingly.

[OPColby]

I only have three MD black cards with black:

Vampiric Tutor
Demonic Tutor
Yawgmoth's Will

They help so significantly, it's not even funny.

Dem Tutoring for an Ancestral or Nevinyrral's Disk has been gamebreaking.

An early Yawg's Will is always amazing.

If artifacts were heavy in my meta, I would run Rack and Ruin instead of the Tormod's Crypts in both builds.

I too run 2 Misdirections MD.  Getting rid of blue cards is never a problem for me, and I run 1 Teferi's Response/3 Stifles MD, 1 mox sapphire, 1 black lotus, 1 lotus petal for mana support for the first turn standstill, no ruby, no jet.

Maze of Ith is lovely.  You can't counter it and Tog doesn't have wastelands.  Screw you, king deck of type 1.

[MarkPharaoh]

What do you guys play in the main deck with black or green?

Green: MD Fastbond
SB Oath

Black: MD Will, Demonic, Twist, possibly Vamp

[OPColby]

Oathstill is horrendous with anything not running creatures, (and most of the meta actually doesn't run creatures,) and what would you put in there anyway?  1 Akroma?  (hasteful attacker/blocker)  Darksteel Colossus?  (synergy with the disk/bigger clock)

Never liked oathstill although it's an interesting deck idea.

Green is the worst thing to use as a secondary color to a landstill deck.

My order goes:

Blue is primary in all builds (obviously)
Red is secondary because it accelerates the clock (burn your opponent) and takes out weenies better (fire/ice) as well as has a better mana denial theme (fire/ice) is better in the mirror versus a U/W Landstill, etc etc.
White is the third color that should be looked at for the sole reason of  Swords to Plowshares and Decree of Justice.  Those are the only good cards white has to offer.  Wrath of God can obviously not be substituted for Nevinyrral's Disk.
Black is fourth, as it adds wonderful anti-control elements like Duress, AND you get tutors.  You can even viably add in dark rituals for speed with Nevinyrral's Disk.  U/B Landstill is not that bad at all, indeed inferior to U/R _and_ U/W Landstill, it beats out U/G Landstill in a second.  And let's not forget the almighty Yawgmoth's Will.  Combined with Dark Rituals, Landstill becomes a broken deck if it can survive that far without creature removal outside of disk.
Green is dead last.  It only has one card even worth looking at, and that is Treetop Village.  Unfortunately, it produces green mana which is worthless in Landstill, and there are no other good green cards outside of regrowth.  Getting out a big fattie with oath is not substitionary for creature removal and tutors.

[Pomaxx]

Slowly this thread evolves in a direction that was not intended by the author. Maybe a mod can change the subject to a more open Lanstill discussion to adress more people to some good and new thoughts about Landstill.

@slighguy; after reading your posts i want to give you some guidance with the SB. If you stick to U/R and your current metagame looks like

just a bunch of control like germbus,hulk,Gat,and lots of other random decks that you see everywhere like sui,sligh,stompy of the oshuwa kind and random rogue decks like reaplace and some type2 control crap

here is what i would play in SB:
4 ReBs (hopefully no more explanation needed; that is the strongest weapon you have against most blue based decks like Hulk/Germbus...)
3 Maze of Ith ( you dont have real fatty removal beside slow disks so maybe that your best choice- but i dont like maze that much because you miss an important land drop in the early game and maze does not remove clocks against you at all)
3 rack and ruins (If your Meta does not include much artifact based decks you better switch to something else- but in the other case, that is a good and FAST 2 for one removal at instant speed, where disk is to slow a turn)
2 Slice and Dice (needed against decrees,enemy  conclaves- also good as surprise removal for utility creatures or pentavite tokens, in the worst case scenario it cantrips)

The remaining slots you better test first!
2 Control Magic OR 2 FTKs( In my U/W/r version i play with gilded drakes to steal the big or winged and livegaining creatures, but you cant unmorph a stolen angel so maybe Control Magic is better- or you play the good old FTKs to remove and lay a clock at the same time, but they cant handle Exalteds)
1 Teferis Response ( You play one random Response in the MD, so you can go up to two if needed against wasteland/removal packing decks.


@shockwave
I fully agree with you that adding white has weakened my Manabase, but not to a point where i am colour screwed that often(which is all that counts to me). I am happy, that a Landstill expert like you gives my deck some comments- or to be more specific considers it to be different. Unfourtunately different does not automatically mean better. Suicide without dark rituals is different as is a three-assed-woman(maybe that is better?!)... i think you got the point. Personally i think that the only thing that distingiushes my deck from others is not the white splash nor the MD (decrees and swords) - it has to be the sideboard. (In europe a lot of landstill players splashed white)
About some month ago i read your primer some times and felt in love with Landstill. After testing it for some we(a)eks, i disliked some parts and tried it with white- the main reason was, that i am more a Control player than an Aggro-Control player. White was the logical next  step for me- so i added swords and the great decrees and dismissed bolts and some utility (CoV/Responses). The  added  SB options that the splash gave me i found to be great, they offered me the space to experiment with for example Dust to Dust( great surprise when i played it against slaver and removed the slaver from the game so he could not weld it back) and the Exalted tech against aggro and Control. Some cards did not make the final cut like Dust to Dust (sorcery is to slow and double white to much), some were OK like Orims Chant against Belcher and Combo others i will try in the near future like serenity. I would be interested what choices you consider to be peculiar- and what not.  Next sunday is the next Duelmen- and my SB can prove i was testing and thinking well.  

1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Misdirection
4 Standstill
3 Stifle
1 Time Walk
4 Fire/Ice
2 Decree of Justice
3 Swords to Plowshares



Lands (26):
1 Adarka Wastes
2 Faerie Conclave
2 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
4 Tundra
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

SB:
2 Exalted Angel(think about moving one to the MD; cause i do play one less conclave and need an additional Kill option)
2 Maze of Ith
3 Gilded Drake (steal angels and fatties)
2 Rack and Ruin
2 Null Rod (against belcher and slaver)
4 ReB/ Pyroblast


@OPColby , i dislike Oathstill too, but how about moving them to the SB and play with "worse than fish" like creatures in the MD? If Oathes i would prefer Combo Oath with crosan reclamation/stroke SB.

I am working on a U/G Landstill deck with root mazes/ESG/treetops/boas/hidden enchantments and so on right now- tell you if ready!

[MarkPharaoh]

lol, it's not Oathstill, did you neglect to read "SB" that was right next to it?  It's a transformational SB against decks that the Oath engine is stronger then using the basic Landstill plan.

Slowly this thread evolves in a direction that was not intended by the author. Maybe a mod can change the subject to a more open Lanstill discussion to adress more people to some good and new thoughts about Landstill.

Nah, the mods hate Landstill, espically JP.  They'll close it before they put it in the right direction.

[Pomaxx]

@markpharao

lol, it's not Oathstill, did you neglect to read "SB" that was right next to it? It's a transformational SB against decks that the Oath engine is stronger then using the basic Landstill plan.

Agree, i meant it the way you discribed ; U/g landstill (and not "Oathstill") with Oath engine in SB, but without fucking darksteel colossusses and other creatures(creatures<crosan combo).

Nah, the mods hate Landstill, espically JP. They'll close it before they put it in the right direction.

heard about it! they should hurry up to close this as soon as possible- before Landstill evolves to Tier 1  :lol: . But WHY do they hate Landstill that much and not FCG or O.Stompy?Anyway, hostility in addition to fear is a clear signal of respect- so lets take it as a compliment!

[Kowal]

on a tangent-

Most of the mods find landstill to be a pile at best.  JP hates when people play bad decks, so obviously he's very much against it.  I on the other hand don't care.  On an aside though, the worse we can really do to you is move it to newbie if it ceases being a discussion, because many other upstanding members of TMD believe it to be a good deck and warranting of said discussion.  It's also present in most metagames so it's something everyone, even JP, will eventually get paired up with.

If someone would PM me with what they want the name of this topic to be changed to, I'll be happy to oblige.

[MarkPharaoh]

Agree, i meant it the way you discribed

Sorry, that remark was directed to Colby.  

Kowal summed it up pretty nicely, a lot of people consider it a pile.  Why do people like JP think this?  Because Pro players fount ways on how to deal with the engine and beat it and since then it never showed it's face in T2 or Ext again; however, T1 players haven't fount a good way to stop the engine so it's still played which makes people mad.

[OPColby]

Landstill rizzocks.  It's my deck of choice.  I could play Tog if I wanted to.  I simply think Landstill is better.

It's not metagamed against which makes it = gold.

Why do people think Landstill is bad?

[Kowal]

Because the engine is dependant on your opponent, and you can't use it to search for answers to stuff that's already on the table.  Also, the removal is easily removed, extremely slow, and costs a bunch.  And it doesn't work through a null rod.

Also, unlike fish, it doesn't have a strong enough clock to force your opponent to break the standstill early.