Article -- Six Beginner's Delusions You Meet in Heaven

[rakso]

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=7520

Again, you might wonder why I dwell on cards I don't think will see play in Type I, even if I end up with a list that rejects all the new cards. While the Johnnies in all of you might not like it, I want to impress the thought process upon the beginners and people like Jarvis. Only after reading his column am I fully reminded why it remains important to write about Eternal Witness for the teenager who's at the Prerelease and has a passing interest in Type I.

[jpmeyer]

The obligatory digs at Inquest aside, I thought that this was one of your better articles in a while, bot h in instructing people and in explaining the whole dismissive nature towards new cards that tends to develop.

[rakso]

Sorry. I got buried under a pile of law school work immediately after I got back from vacation, and Knutson posts my articles one to two weeks after you submit them. First trial on Monday, I'm private prosecutor for a 12-year old rape victim.

[thorme]

First trial on Monday, I'm defense counsel for a 12-year old rape victim.

Good luck!

One question:  Why would a rape victim need a defense counsel?

[rakso]

Argh. That would be strange, wouldn't it? I'm defense in another of the dozen or so cases I'm handling right now.

[ump]

You also get flamed for posting that ubiquitous, gawdawful Black/Blue counter/discard deck that has nothing but four Avatar of Will to win with.

I assume this is a reference to my old deck because I don't recall anyone else ever advocating Avatar of Will.  First of all, I will concede that I was a super-scrub at that time, but even then, I won my share of games even at GenCon level tournaments.  It just proves that with all the fast acceleration in Type 1, anything can happen.  I've used Avatar of Will (sometimes even hard casted) numerous times for the kill where Negator simply would not have worked.  I will have to correct you and say that I never had counters in my deck except for my very first tournament deck where I sideboarded Force of Wills and Misdirections.  I only used the broken blue (Ancestral, Time Walk, and occasionally Mystical Tutor) and tested out Recoils.  Another thing is that I never had four Avatar of Wills, only two, but they were accompanied by the usual specters and shades.  Negators or Masticores were in various combinations in the maindeck/sideboard.

Anyways, thanks for the trip down memory lane.  It's always good to remember where you came from and how much you have learned from then.  However, I probably haven't given up my scrub status yet as I try to perfect a Crucible of Worlds based control deck.

[Jacob Orlove]

You also get flamed for posting that ubiquitous, gawdawful Black/Blue counter/discard deck that has nothing but four Avatar of Will to win with.

I assume this is a reference to my old deck because I don't recall anyone else ever advocating Avatar of Will.  First of all, I will concede that I was a super-scrub at that time, but even then, I won my share of games even at GenCon level tournaments.  It just proves that with all the fast acceleration in Type 1, anything can happen.  I've used Avatar of Will (sometimes even hard casted) numerous times for the kill where Negator simply would not have worked.  I will have to correct you and say that I never had counters in my deck except for my very first tournament deck where I sideboarded Force of Wills and Misdirections.  I only used the broken blue (Ancestral, Time Walk, and occasionally Mystical Tutor) and tested out Recoils.  Another thing is that I never had four Avatar of Wills, only two, but they were accompanied by the usual specters and shades.  Negators or Masticores were in various combinations in the maindeck/sideboard.

Anyways, thanks for the trip down memory lane.  It's always good to remember where you came from and how much you have learned from then.  However, I probably haven't given up my scrub status yet as I try to perfect a Crucible of Worlds based control deck.

Hmm. Maybe if what he said doesn't describe your deck, then he might not have been talking about you specifically. How strange!

It was a good article, though.

[ump]

Hmm. Maybe if what he said doesn't describe your deck, then he might not have been talking about you specifically. How strange!

You're right.  I was being narrow-minded.  It's just that I find it hard to believe that anybody else ever thought Avatar of Will was a good card.

[VGB]

Culprit #3: Arcane Denial
Those who knew me back in my past life as Beyond Dominia's moderator know there's no card I hate seeing more. Not only is it always posted in amateur Blue decklists, it's a favorite of abrasive novices who will insist on debating that it's the third best counter.

I never thought of it as the third best - but now that you mention it...

I wonder if anybody remembers this (actually, I'm quite sure they do).  

Good article - I disagree with you regarding Crucible, Salvagers, and your prior article dismissing Artificer's Intuition, but you present excellent arguments.

[The M.E.T.H.O.D]

LoL I remember that thread.

I would always rather have Mana Leak, and even after that I would choose prohibit over arcane denial.

[xrizzo]

Arcane denial is only good for countering your own brainstorm.  1UU mana, 2 cards, to draw 3 cards.  (still not very good)

Arcane denial is also good with plagiarize.  

Other than those two narrow cases, it blows.  That thread was one of the all time classic threads on the old TMD.

[Thissa2]

Arcane Denial + Brainstorm is still a 3 mana inspiration that requires getting two seperate cards... but Arcane Denial + Plagarize = tech

very nice article rakso, this has been the best one ive read  by you in a while...

[Zelc]

Arcane Denial + Brainstorm is still a 3 mana inspiration that requires getting two seperate cards... but Arcane Denial + Plagarize = tech

Wrong.  Arcane Denial says "MAY", so they don't have to draw a card.  At best, Arcane Denial + Plagiarize = hard counter + cantrip, AKA a really really bad Dismiss.  Unless, of course, your opponent is braindead and/or can't read the card, but that's a metagame dependent

Using it with your own spells really stinks.  It's like playing a spell that forces you to discard one, and then draw 3, netting you only 1 extra card.  It also adds 1U to the casting cost.

Arcane Denial is trash.

By the way, the article isn't bad.

[jpmeyer]

Back in the day I remember people using Arcane Denial to counter their own spells if your opponent tried to counter it.

[defector]

Nice article, good luck with the trial, my girlfriend just moved back to Baguio, keep the trash off the street
defector

[Matt]

When you screw up, everyone lets you know, but when you do something right, it's quiet. This was your best article since I can't remember when.

[Machinus]

While I have doubts about the widespread use of the specific vocabulary, I think the concepts are important. Overcoming the obstacles to deckbuilding and general strategy formulation have not been covered nearly enough, compared to things like card advantage or tempo, so I am glad to see them being talked about.

[Covetous]

Would I be correct (or perhaps belaboring the obvious) by stating that this article (which was very good, by the way) is explaining why certain cards and types of cards are casual cards rather than competitive type 1 cards?  Or would that be an over-simplification?  From a realistic standpoint, most people understand type 1 only from a casual standpoint, and a real competitive type 1 deck would walk all over 99% of all casual type 1 decks.  

So, many of the card choices seen in beginner's decks are simply cards aimed at casual play.  A lot of people I know play group games, where slow combo decks can actually work but fast, tendrils-based combo probably won't.  Obviously this is irrelevant to a type 1 tournament, but I think the idea can be extended--many people incorrectly estimate the power of new cards by thinking about them in the wrong way, based only on their potential brokenness, independent of costs and disruptability, or in the context of a group game.  

This is where statements such as "OMFG restrict auriok salvagers!" come from--people ignore the need for specific graveyard requirements and a 4cc white creature to win.  The power of cards in a  group game or on turn 8 is basically irrelevant to the banned/restricted list, which is aimed at one-on-one competitive play.  I know that when a new set spoiler comes out there are two type of people--those who say "wow these 5 cards will need to be restricted" and people who say "only these two cards will see type 1 play."  In most cases both types of people are wrong.  I myself was guilty of the first kind of thinking when Mirrodin first came out:  I thought that 5 of the new cards would be restricted--chrome mox (which actually was), fabricate and sylvan scrying (because they are tutors), spoils of the vault (well, I guess this is also a tutor) and isochron scepter (well, because it seemed too damned broken).  

When people who are primarily familiar with other formats (such as the cancer-causing type 2) and try to generalize their knowledge of type 2 to type 1, errors are bound to happen.  Just because a card is playable in type 2--or even pretty broken--doesn't mean it can translate to type 1.  Type 2 is generally about turns 4-7 (give or take), while type 1 is generally about turns 1-3.  So, just because Fabricate can search for ANY ARTIFACT (OMFG how broken--look at tinker) doesn't mean it's actually playable in type 1 because it costs 3 and doesn't even put the artifact into play.  

So, enough babbling--this was a good article and I think you did a good job of explaining why some cards and types of cards will always be casual-only cards.  And by the way, I think a lot of other people who play discard came up with the idea of avatar of will, I know I did, but many of us dismissed the idea as well--I personally decided that 4x rack and 4x wheel of torture negated the need for creature-based kill.  Oh, and I always liked phantasmal fiend in my UB discard casual deck because he didn't require UU and at the time I didn't have any duals (sad to say).

[Komatteru]

Arcane Denial used to be pretty good.  But that was back in 1997, before Tempest, when the environment was outrageously[/b]slow.  Back then, there weren't many counterspells.  You had the classic Counterspell, Mana Drain (not legal in Type 2 or Extended when that format was created that year), Force of Will (which was no where near the powerhouse it is now), and that's about it.  There was Memory Lapse, but that was as lame then as it is now.  Force Spike hadn't been reprinted yet.  Mirage added Dissipate, which I still think is awesome (my extended deck missed that a ton).  Visions had nothing.  So back then, Arcane was all you had if you wanted another couple permission spells (yeah, back when control was called "permission"), and the environment was slow enough that giving your opponent a couple extra cards was ok.

Plus Arcane was the only splashable counter until Mana Leak was printed in Stronghold.

I offer these lists for discussion.  I just threw this togther as I wrote this, so I might have forgotten something (but I can't remember if there's anything I've forgotten...).

My top 5 counterspells in 1997 (before Tempest):
1) Mana Drain
Back then, this was as good as it got.  Can you say 'bah-roken'?  Sure, sure, you can.

2) Force of Will
FoW was strong then, but no where near as necessary.  This card didn't take off until the end of Ice Age/Alliances life in extended, when it spent a good year on the watch list.  Even in Type 1, it wasn't absolutely critical (but still an addition few could pass up), as there wasn't a grave need to be able to counter something with only one or no land.

3) Counterspell
No frills, but great for the environment.

4) Dissipate
Bye bye, Hammer.  Slight didn't have a chance against white/blue control packing dissipate after the hoard was gone.

5) Arcane Denial
Great in Prision decks (remember those?) and the only splashable counterspell until Mana Leak.  Notice that there hasn't been one since then either...except Vex, which is awful (but that's just a little better than Arcane is now).  There really was nothing else?  Visions had Desertion...yeah...that was swell.  Deflection? Eh.  Not for 4 mana.

Perhaps my 5th there could be replaced with BEB, but that's too conditional.  I'm only considering straight counters here.  Can you even think of any other counterspells you played back then?  I sure can't.

My top 5 counterspells now:
1) Force of Will
This card that once nearly ruined extended is the what's saving Type 1.  This is really the only card that can keep fast combo decks (like draw7 or dragon) in check now.  Unless you go first, drop a Sapphire and a blue land or blue land, any other mox, Time Walk, blue land.  Neither of those two is really a great thing to depend on...

2) Mana Drain
For all practical purposes, this is where the list of played counterspells for most decks ends.  You'll see one or two misdirections in the boards of 'tog or miracle grow, but it's not a staple but any means.  This is.

3) Misdirection
Huge.  In T1, Misdirecting an early Ancestral or big Mind Twist can be a game breaker.  Cunning Wish makes this an amazing board addition.

4) Mana Leak
Granted, not many people would go with more than 4 of the top 2.  However, in T1.5, this gets used with Isochron Scepter.  I think that combo is even stronger than Counterspell/Iso because your opponent can bust a spell to force you to use the scepter then follow with something else.  With Leak/Iso, he'll play it, you can make him pay 3 and let him have whatever he cast (if its not something you really need to counter) and then deny him the ability to cast the next spell.  Either way, you really come out on top here.

5) Dissipate
We've gotten down to the point where no one is going to be playing these counterspells anymore (too many).  I still really like this card.  The printing of one card makes this that remove from game ability that much stronger: Yawgmoth's Will.  Add in all the flashback and other graveyard users, and you have yourself quite a nice counter here.  It's one of the few 3 mana counterspells (the other big ones being Absorb and Undermine).  The real trouble with this is that you can't play it in any format where you can't play FoW and Drain, so it's lost a lot of its fire.

Arcane is about the worst counterspell now.  The regular counterspell is only good in environments where you can't play the above spells...which is why blue control outside of vintage is horrible now.

[rakso]

Arcane Denial used to be pretty good.  But that was back in 1997, before Tempest, when the environment was outrageously[/b]slow.  Back then, there weren't many counterspells.  You had the classic Counterspell, Mana Drain (not legal in Type 2 or Extended when that format was created that year), Force of Will (which was no where near the powerhouse it is now), and that's about it.  There was Memory Lapse, but that was as lame then as it is now.  Force Spike hadn't been reprinted yet.  Mirage added Dissipate, which I still think is awesome (my extended deck missed that a ton).  Visions had nothing.  So back then, Arcane was all you had if you wanted another couple permission spells (yeah, back when control was called "permission"), and the environment was slow enough that giving your opponent a couple extra cards was ok.

You're discussing the pool before TESHEX, meaning before Whispers of the Muse, Ophidian, Forbid, and Mana Leak?

If we're talking Type I, what deck could use more than twelve counters (Force, Drain, Counterspell)? Moreover, if you're talking splash, Power Sink was not that bad in the card pool you're talking about.

If you really want to push the point, I guess the best Arcane could do at the time was play the role of emergency splashable counter, in decks like ProsBloom or 5-Color Green. The card advantage tradeoff is similar to Force of Will in those cases.

Again, at that time...

[Komatteru]

Yes.  Before Whispers, Forbid and Mana Leak.  Ophidian was in Weatherlight, but I don't recall the deck being played before Tempest.

Power Sink!! I told you I forgot something.  Yeah, that used to be fantastic before 6th edition rules.  That was a good alternative, although in any deck with aggro tendancies it would have been hard to use effectively.

Arcane was pretty awesome for Prison decks, where white was the main color (blue included for Arcane and maybe another miscellaneous counter or two) and the extra cards were irrelevant.  Those were pretty strong in T1 in in '96-7 and before (all the core components were in Beta), since they needed artifact mana, and T1 was the only format that could offer that before Mirage.

It was also great for Turbo Stasis decks, but I'm not sure how much those got played in T1.  That was a bit before me.

Again, at that time...

Indeed.  A lot of cards get worse as time goes on...recall stuff like Maze of Ith and Copy Artifact used/needed to be restricted.  Thawing Glaciers used to be the card in Alliances (man, that just shows you how slow it was back then, ne?), after the Bauldivian Horde fanaticism wore off a bit.  Now you'll get laughed at if you show up with that stuff at a tourney.  Others, like Force of Will, get better with time.  FoW was popular when Alliances came out and hard to get ahold of, but it was $2 when you could find it (crooks charged $4), but not to the tune of Isochron or even Fact or Fiction when those came out.