Salvagers.dec: How we made a bad deck a bit better.

[AngryPheldagrif]

The lowdown:
Lately, the newbie forum has seen quite a few of the so-called 'Salvager' decks. These lists (examples here and here ) seem to be done in haste and far from optimal. So we decided to test things around a bit and replace the crap with the good. This is written in the form of an abbreviated primer, but since the deck lacks tournament winning Tier 1-ness at the moment, it probably doesn't deserve that honor.

We ran around several versions of the deck, including an all-out combo version and a heavily controlling version. What we discovered was that the combo just isn't fast enough to go for, so we stuck it in a combo shell and moved things around until it worked. The basic idea was to be able to put up enough of a control fight to keep the opponent off balance until we could surprise them and combo out.


Lands[/u]:
*We worked around with this until we decided that 4 colors was optimal and fit with the Keeperish nature of the control element.*

With our 4 colors in mind, having 5-color lands was a necessity.

[card]City of Brass[/card]: City gives us access to whatever we need, whenever we need it. The life is rarely an issue, and the lack of a further drawback makes this a necessity.
[card]Glimmervoid[/card]: This choice was a tough one. In a deck centered around artifact mana, the argument was that we'd have one out enough to make it worthwhile. In testing, however, the card was weak. More than one hand had to be mulliganned for lack of SoloMoxen. In matches where the opponent could hate them, such as Gorilla Shamans in 4cControl, these were a cause of frustration when we would often find ourselves utterly mana-less. In the end, these just didn't make the cut.
[card]Undiscovered Paradise[/card], [card]Gemstone Mine[/card], etc: After our original version that packed 5-color lands exclusively, we never really wanted them so badly. The deck ended up a lot less color intensive than we had thought. The advent of drawbacks, even more severe than Glimmervoids, was something we definitely wanted to avoid for the drawn out games where we were forced into control mode.
[card]Flooded Strand[/card]: When our testing began to show that the mana base was more blue intensive than multicolored, we decided that a few fetchlands would do the job nicely. The reason we chose Strands was we were going to play a single basic Island and Plains, but those got dropped in the final version. We stuck with these anyways.
Duals: With the Strands and Cities, mana was rarely a problem. We chose an assortment of Duals that fit our color needs while not clogging our draws.
Basics: In the end, the need for solid color fixing overrode the fear of Wasteland. We just didn't have enough room for more lands, and it sucked to draw them at inopportune times when we needed different colors.

Final concensus:

2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 City of Brass

Artifact Mana[/u]:

Moxen: A natural inclusion, the acceleration helped enormously and we never had problems with the off-colors.
[card]Black Lotus[/card]: Not only a godly accelerator, but a vital combo piece. Automatic.
[card]Lions Eye Diamond[/card]: Little help mana-wise, but still good for the combo. This may actually get cut eventually with so much tutoring power in the deck. In for now.
[card]Sol Ring[/card], [card]Mana Crypt[/card], and [card]Mana Vault[/card]: More great acceleration. The deck has plenty of colorless needs and these cards are great for the job.
[card]Lotus Petal[/card], [card]Mox Diamond[/card], and [card]Chrome Mox[/card]: These were all in the deck at one point or another, but ended up cut for various reasons. Lotus Petal was just not efficient enough, the added boost never really made up for the 1 time use. Mox Diamond just seemed to play havoc with opening hands. We just drew one too many 1 land hands for it too help enormously. Led to more mulligans than we could allow. Chrome Mox was the first to get the axe. Often we needed the colored mana for the spell in hand that this would power. The deck is just too fragile to allow it to blow valuable cards on an extra mana.

Final concensus:

1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald

The combo[/u]:
*We stuck Black Lotus and Lion's Eye Diamond in under artifact mana, and we didn't think we needed to re-justify them.*

[card]Auriok Salvagers[/card]: The whole point of the deck. Lets you go infinite with either Black Lotus or Lion's Eye Diamond. How many of these to run was an object of discussion, but in the end it's best to have too many in your hand than too few.
[card]Pyrite Spellbomb[/card]: The best win condition out there. Just lets you win, while also providing a bit of utility removal incase you draw it before you combo out.

Other people played fancy stuff like Conjuror's Bauble. I'd rather just have the spellbomb, which is ok on it's own. Once you combo out with a kill card you're going to win. I'd rather just kill them then have to deal with fancy stuff. It also frees up slots for better stuff. In this build, Cunning Wish also serves as an alternative win condition with Brain Freeze on the sideboard.

Final Concensus:

4 Auriok Salvagers
1 Pyrite Spellbomb

Control[/u]:
With the way the deck runs, the control is vital to running your opponent into the ground and soaking up his answers so you can go off unimpeded.

[card]Force of Will[/card]: A simple choice. With plenty of blue (22 in the maindeck) these are a natural inclusion. In addition to providing free protection, they play up the control element, providing help against faster combos like Belcher and Draw-7.
[card]Mana Drain[/card]: With the mana base quite capable of double-blue, these help enormously. With the Forces, these allow us to match more control-oriented decks, such as Keeper and Hulk, counter for counter. These also are an enormous assist to the combo, as the deck has plenty of sinks for the free mana, especially the Salvagers.
[card]Duress[/card]: These were very questionable during planning, but they often proved invaluable against some of the toughest matches. This extra bit of control worked wonders against sideboarded hate and against control in general. In the end we decided that a pair of these would work just fine. They help, but are often not vital, and drawing them later helped us by letting us use our first fetch for a Tundra, then playing these later off a City or another fetch.
[card]Cunning Wish[/card]: While technically these help with the combo, the main funtion was to rid ourselves of the ever-annoying artifacts such as Null Rod, Damping Matrix, Chalice of the Void, and Trinisphere. With a powerful selection of Wishable removal, these are often the gamebreaker in a stalled out game. These also serve additional purpose with the odd sideboard choices, which are explained later.
[card]Gorilla Shaman[/card]: During the late stages of planning, someone pretty much threw this out as a random idea and it stuck. Not only is it effective control in general, but it gives us a secret weapon against the almighty Chalice for zero. In the lategame, it can even take out Trinispere and Null Rod, taking care of pretty much any artifact-based disruption aside from Damping Matrix. Just the sheer surprise factor of having this up your sleeve is enough to include it. Even dropped early, it often can put enough of a clamp on your opponent's mana to hold them back until they find a way to remove it, often costing them a valuable piece of removal that could have been used on your Salvagers.
Fire/Ice, StP, etc.: Despite the similiarities, this is not 4cControl. The primary purpose is too use your combo to win the game. Having these Wishable is as far as we deemed necessary.

Final Concensus:

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Duress
3 Cunning Wish
1 Gorilla Shaman

Draw and Tutoring[/u]:

[card]Brainstorm[/card]: We needed something cheep and effective, yet Force pitchable. Brainstorm is perfect for the job. This beat out Impulse and all the other random blue cantrips by a mile. Not even to mention the synergy with the fetchlands.
[card]Ancestral Recall[/card]: *note* See 'Brainstorm' without the drawback.
[card]Timetwister[/card] and [card]Wheel of Fortune[/card]: From the earliest stages of testing, having a draw-7 or 2 was a natural inclusion for consistency's sake. A fresh hand and another round of brokenness. What more could you ask for?
[card]Demonic Tutor[/card]: Simply the best tutor. Period. Any card, any time. No questions asked.
[card]Vampiric Tutor[/card]: Slower and less efficient than the Demonic, but still powerful enough to warrant inclusion.
[card]Lim-Duls Vault[/card]: With such a varied combo, this lets us fetch something usable for a small chunk of life. Usually we ended up down no more than 4 or 5 before we found a set of cards we liked. Generally served the same function as Vampiric Tutor, but knowing that you're going to topdeck something useful even if they counter what you tutored for is very nice.
[card]Intuition[/card]: In a deck like this, Intuition is great even without Accumulated Knowledge. Since you're combo pieces work in your hand or graveyard, this is effectively a Demonic Tutor, and you can always get 3 Salvagers.
[card]Gamble[/card]: Now for the jank. Gamble is, and always will be, a risky card. You've got as much chance of losing what you want as keeping it. This makes Gambling for a Salvagers a risky proposition. However, with a full hand, it often works out. The real use of this card is for after you have a Salvagers, though. When you just need that pivotal Lotus or Spellbomb, Gamble guarantees you're going to get it no matter what. I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of flak for using this, but it was a lifesaver in testing.
[card]Trinket Mage[/card]: The card a lot of people have been looking at for this deck. It is an insti-fetch for your artifact combo pieces, as well as an emergency beatstick. The real gem of the card is that it is a solid body, providing a convenient stumbling block for your opponent. It will be a cold day in hell before this card actually beats your opponent for the win, but he serves the singular purpose of being a chump blocker, a threat, and a general nuisance, all wrapped up in a nice neat tutoring package. We all know how much control hates letting your opponents do stuff, so they'll often go ahead and waste the StP they were holding for your Salvagers when they start to take 2 damage every turn. It sounds dumb, but is very deadly when played correctly.
[card]Artificers Intuition[/card]: The card everyone's been clamoring about for this deck. We started off with 4 of them in our builds, since we figured the buzz had to be right. We quickly discovered how terrible these are. These require us to hold onto valuable SoLoMoxen that we'd otherwise want for acceleration, and are incredibly blue intensive. The only advantage this holds over other tutors is that it can fetch both artifact pieces of the combo. With so much draw and search power, this was rarely an issue, and the drawbacks are just way to severe to cut other tutors for this.
[card]Yawgmoths Will[/card]: Our decision not to include this was juch debated, and I know I'm going to catch a lot of flak for this. It basically comes down to this: While controlling, the main purpose of the deck is still to use the combo for the win. Because of the nature of the combo, you cannot win on the turn you cast Yawgmoth's Will. Because of this, we just felt that the cards inherent brokenness was not what this deck needed. The most you're likely to get is the replaying of a Brainstorm or tutor. We're ok just playing an extra tutor.

Final Concensus:

4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Timetwister
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
2 Intuition
2 Gamble
2 Trinket Mage

Final List:

2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 City of Brass
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
4 Auriok Salvagers
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Duress
3 Cunning Wish
1 Gorilla Shaman
4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Timetwister
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
2 Intuition
2 Gamble
2 Trinket Mage

And now for the most important part, the sideboard.
Since you're probably bored to tears by the complex card analyses I've presented so far, I'm going to keep this simple. With Cunning Wishes, we needed a wishboard. However, we wanted to balance out the normal wish targets with specialty stuff like extra tutors. Our sideboard:

4 Phyrexian Negator
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Misdirection
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Orim's Chant
1 Disenchant
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Corpse Dance
1 Entomb

Much of it is just generic wish stuff, with an emphasis on having varied artifact removal spells to deal with the otherwise fatal situations in which your opponent has things like Trinisphere or multiple Chalices. Some odd choices:
[card]Phyrexian Negator[/card]: This choice seems rather old-school, but we found that some matchups just were so packed with hate that we needed another choice. These were originally Quirion Dryads, but these came in since our final version does not include green. As these only were including after much of our testing was completed (and we discovered we needed them), this is the only seriously questionable slot. We were thinking that these would be better off as 3 Psychatogs and a Berserk, given the control-combo nature of the deck.
[card]Stroke of Genius[/card]: Cunning Wish for this is just an extra way of winning should they do something janky like Extract the Spellbomb.
[card]Entomb[/card]: This is the emergency tutor. It fetches either the Lotus or the Spellbomb. Inefficient? Perhaps. Useful? Definitely.
[card]Corpse Dance[/card]: The other emergency card. 100% jank, but being able to replace a Salvagers lost to random burn or discard is often a gamewinner, as its the last thing your opponent expects. In until we find something better.



Since we knew from the onset that this was probably not going to be Tier 1, we aimed our testing at how this plays against other decks, rather than what it beats or loses to. However, I'd like to note that this put up one hell of a fight, even when it didn't win. We limited our analyses to deck types in general, since we only got in a few days worth of testing.

Dragon
One of the more interesting matchups. The inability to remove Bazaar hurts, but just taking it easy and playing control is usually enough to keep your opponent wobbly until you bust out the combo. The shock value of your sudden victory is often enough to put you over the edge, but you must always play carefully, as they can do the same exact thing to you. Your best weapons in this matchup are the Cunning Wishes and Duress. The ability to reach proactively into your opponents hand and yank an animate spell or tutor is brutally effective, especially towards the mid-game. Having no Coffin Purge to wish for is often annoying, but in this matchup wishing for a StP or BEB has the same effect. The ability to use these as pseudo-tutors in some cases also can be a gamebreaker in a topdecking war.

Draw-7
Combo-wise, Draw-7 has you all washed up. The trick is too play controllingly. Your Forces are your only real protection, so use them wisely, but don't be afraid to blow them on a first-turn Black Lotus if you notice they miss a land drop or something. Draw-7's mana base is it's only major weakness. If you can survive the first turn or 2, Duress and Gorilla Shaman, as well as Mana Drain, become your best bets. If you can hold a Gorilla Shaman out, they often will simply shrivel up and die from lack of mana. Duress is a great first-turn drop, since Draw-7 has a disturbingly consistent 2nd turn kill, which Duress can often neuter. If by some miracle you can reach Drain mana, hit them where it hurts. Don't be afraid to play draw-go for a little while if you're holding the Drain with UU open. Just watch out for their Forces, which can wreck you when you're least expecting it. Just remember, if you can stall out long enough, you're probably going to win, so hang in there. Your key card is Force of Will of course.

2-land Belcher
All I can say is mulligan into a Force and pray. It's a tough matchup thats pretty much always decided by the first 2 turns. If you can survive the 2 turns then try to sit back and take it with Forces and Drains. Play strict control as much as you can. If you try to go head-to-head with their combo, you're going to lose. Control is your only hope. Your key card is still Force of Will.

Food Chain Goblins
Play this one aggressively, both in terms of controlling and comboing. Don't get too far ahead of yourself, and try to keep them under 4 goblins, the prerequisite number for them to cycle away your Salvagers. If you can play carefully, you can win this. The key to this matchup is in your tutoring power. If you work hard enough, you can win before they do. Use your counters carefully. A first turn Lackey is a threat, but without Food Chain they're just Goblin Sligh. Work it right and you can race them easily.

Gay Fish
This matchup is all about playing ruthlessly. Fish is full of answers to all your stuff, and they'll often have maindeck Null Rod. Play to win. If you give them time to stabilize, they will annihilate you. Your only chance is to match them with counters, and then win before they get their serious threats going. The key here is to remember that all the Cloud of Faeries in the world can't stop you once you combo out. Grim Lavamancer is not a threat unless they have double red open for a Lavamancer+Fire/Ice combo on the Salvagers. The big things to watch out for are Spiketail Hatchling and Voidmage Prodigy. And of course Null Rod. God do I hate that Rod.

Landstill
Play this like the Gay Fish matchup and it's yours to win. If they can resolve a Disk you're probably screwed, but until then you need to move ASAP to win. The key is to play matching counters, and ignore their lands. Watch out for Wasteland, though.

Workshop Slaver
This match is pretty much summed up with the phrase 'rollover and die'. Not only do they play 2 of your favorite artifact in their maindeck or sideboard (Chalice and Trinisphere), but they're fast and ruthlessly efficient. Play with a big degree of paranoia, but pray they crap out and don't make you combo yourself out with Slaver.

Control Slaver
A tad bit easier than the Workshop Slaver match. Be frugal with your counters, as winning the counter wars is your key to success. The surprise key here is Cunning Wish. Use these to fetch some good old silver bullets, and pray your opponent doesn't have one of their own.

7/10 Split
Go after the Welders, and pray they don't mulligan into a Chalice for 0. If they get a Titan on the board then you've lost, plain and simple. Until then, try your damnedest.

Trini or just plain old Stax
Force like there's no tomorrow, but 9 out of 10 times you're just plain fucked. They've just got too much bloody artifact disruption.
[edit]: This match isn't actually quite so bad as long as you can move fast and keep your permanent count high. Try to work around the Tangle Wires  and save your counters for the big threats like Trinisphere and Sphere of Resistance. If they resolve one of those early, go for a Cunning Wish ASAP. Otherwise, try to tutor up your Mox Monkey. Getting him on the board is a gigantic boon. If they're mono-brown, try to wait them out of Tangle Wires and such, while using your counters generously on the big threats. If they've got Welders, remember that you can use one of your many tutors to fetch up the Spellbomb as spot removal.

Gro and Hulk
No, I'm not insane. I'm lumping these together for a reason. Both of them play counters, while being able to win efficiently and both sport powerful draw engines. You're only real chance of winning is to let them fool around with drawing, and then win while they're tapped out. When they see Forces and Drains, they'll figure you're playing control. Don't dissapoint them, but  combo the heck out at the first opportunity.


4cControl
Another one of those fun 'roll over and die' matches. Not only do they feature the same complement of control, they also have StP and Gorilla Shaman. Post side-board they have Red Elemental Blasts, too. The key to winning this matchup is to spend extra time in church before tournaments. And pray god's in a good mood.
[edit]: In the first few turns, they are limited to Forces and the little bit of spot removal they can muster. If you can go pure combo you've got a valid chance of winning before they can muster a decent counter response. If not, throw around some stuff to keep them off balance. If you can play well enough, they'll often waste their counters on things like Intuition and Trinket Mage.



I'm pretty much just posting this so all the random people will stop posting completely untested piles. All questions, comments, and critisms are welcome, but if all you're going to do is tell me why this deck is inferior then please stay out of the thread.[/size] This deck is not just a random useless idea. We actually put time and thought into this. For all we know Wizards will just suddenly decide to kill Draw-7 and Belcher, so you never know if this could be the next big thing in type 1. If anyone wants to face this monstrosity, I'm reachable by e-mail (angry_pheldagrif at yahoo dot com) or AOL Instant Messenger (HunterKiller403). I'm always up for a game or 20 on Apprentice.

-Dan Carp, The AngryPheldagrif (Team DD head designer)

Don't EVER post in that size text again. It's incredibly rude, annoying to look at, and makes you look like a little child throwing a temper tantrum.
-Matt[/color]

[Bulls on Parade]

This deck is not just a random useless idea. We actually put time and thought into this.

...What? I tested like 1000 games with my Neo-Academy style Belcher deck, but that didn't make it more than a useless idea.

Anyway, on topic:

You only suggest using the combo in 3 relevant matchups (FCG, Fish/GayR, and Landstill). The rest of the matchup analyses either fall under the assessments "play control" or "roll over and die".

Pertaining to the Hulk matchup (excuse me if you already realize the flaw in your reasoning, but it's terribly hard to tell since you lumped two starkly contrasting archetypes' analyses together) if you play control, you're going to lose. Hulk has an immensely more powerful draw engine, and will overpower you.

For all we know Wizards will just suddenly decide to kill Draw-7 and Belcher, so you never know if this could be the next big thing in type 1

You aren't advocating a balls to the wall combo deck like Draw7 or Belcher, but [the current list looks like] a control deck that simply uses a suboptimal win condition. This statement is wrong on so many levels.

In conclusion, I agree that this deck is at least worth testing and this is definitely one of the better (read: closer to good) lists I've seen.

[Matt]

For all we know Wizards will just suddenly decide to kill Draw-7 and Belcher, so you never know if this could be the next big thing in type 1

It's still a three-card combo, and one of the pieces is semi-restricted (Lotus+LED). By that token and others (such as being a lot less than {W}, and Salvagers being useless on their own), this is almost strictly worse than the Crucible of Worlds combo decks. And those are terrible.

Three-card combos are, in all probability, NEVER going to be good again. Right now the best combo decks are one-card combos - Animate Dead! Tendrils of Agony! Goblin Charbelcher! - and even the two-card combos like Illusions/Donate and Rector/Therapy are not good enough. I can't imagine how many restrictions it would take to even make this idea the best combo deck, let alone one of the top decks of the format.

I'm really sorry to rain on your parade like this, but it needed to be said.

[goober]

Stop all these horrible Salvager decks, please.  "They might kill every other deck that exists, so we should be prepared," is not a good argument.

[VGB]

As Matt already intimated, Rector + Therapy is already a strictly superior combo, and it is currently out of vogue in many metas due to its susceptibility to hate (and the prevalence of said hate).  It also tends to roll over and die to Workshop and Dragon decks, and anything packing LD.  I will tell you why Rector is better than Salvagers - which are points you need to address in your deckbuilding:

1) Rector is essentially a 1 card combo, since it dying is what initiates the win.  Thus a resolved Rector against aggro can stave off beats until you dig to a Therapy.

2) Rector in play with a Therapy in the yard is more consistently a win than Salvagers in play with a Lotus/LED in the yard.

3) Both combos tend to die horribly to graveyard hate - but at least with Rector decks, you can hardcast Necropotence and Bargain and draw into your win condition, which still wins without Rector around.

4) Rector packs 11/12 disruption cards, both proactive and reactive (4 of which also happen to be a combo enabler).  This deck has 8 purely reactive disruption spells - Force + Drain - and I can never see this deck winning a counter battle due to the fact that it lacks the draw power of purer control decks such as 4cc and Hulk that also play only Force and Drain.

The fact that you suggest that LED can ever be cut is heinous, at least in my opinion.  Reaplace doesn't play LED because, well, control decks don't like to discard their hand under any circumstances, and the card is absolutely dead if it is drawn without the combo in place - but I believe it should still be played due to unforseeable complications, such as Duress followed by Crypt, etc.  Increasing the number of cards that complete your combo helps in those instances where you happen to draw into it versus relying on tutors, which require mana investment and have to resolve in order to be effective.

One thing that leads me to believe your build is far from optimal is the lack of card synergy - you have many strong cards that form the core of many combo decks (ReapLace, Draw7, etc.), but each card does what it is meant to do, and very little more, save the actual combo cards.  You will have to find some sort of tertiary enabler for your combo that ties it all together (read: provides some combination of disruption/tutoring/alternate win) in order to make this deck truly viable.

Now for the constructive criticism:

Rector is a very life-dependant deck, since every point you have left is a card drawn with Bargain/Necro - so cards that eat into that total are very carefully considered (fetches, Crypt, Vampiric).  This deck has none of those problems, yet only plays 4 fetches.  I would think that if you wanted optimal Brainstorm synergy, you would be playing at least 6.

This deck has many similarities to Rector in that the main combo piece costs {W}, and Rector at least has Ritual to help muscle out an early combo.  You instead opt for Mana Drain - which is a horrible combo enabler, since the mana it provides is purely colorless, and it requires a stable mana base to provide the initial UU.

PS
@goober - were you Smash in a former life?  You both have the same penchant for posting very little in terms of anything actually constructive.

[Dr. Sylvan]

@goober - were you Smash in a former life? You both have the same penchant for posting very little in terms of anything actually constructive.

First, this is a blatant flame, and unnecessary. If he's bad enough, he'll earn himself Moderator responses, but until then, he's another user and antagonizing him is pointless and unacceptable.

Also, goober's location says "Massachusetts" whereas Smash goes to UIUC.

[LotusHead]

Nice write-up!

I am pleased at least two Trinket Mages made the cut.

Your build has 15 lands, plus a ton of Moxen/brainstorms.  Is this to deal with Wastelands and whatnot? I would personally consider cutting 2 Cities of Brass for either two more Trinket Mages   or a Tolarian Academy and a Mystical Tutor.  The Mystical just rawks with brainstorms!

Does Stifle have a place in Salvager.dec? Many of the non-Keeper matchups get screwed by Stifle, or at least start a costly counter war.

[Lost In Admiration]

Cute? Yes.
Well-written? Yeah.
Innovative? Somewhat.
Viable? Sure as hell not.

End result = Good read, bad deck.  It's been said but if Rector Trix, a deck with a pair of two card combos, is barely viable, a deck with a restricted three card combo isn't going to have a chance.  Hell, I'd rather play Reaplace.

[Numba1Stunna]

I am all for deck innovation, but the basis of this deck, like many have already said, is not going to be competative. I know you were trying to point some of the other people working on the deck in the right direction, but it is a direction of losing really.

Please people use your time and effort towards another deck idea besides this one. preferably one that doesnt rely on a WHITE! CREATURE! with 4CC!

[LotusHead]

The Salvager is a 4cc white creature.  There is another deck that also uses 4cc white creatures.  4CC uses Exalted Angels.  Granted, they don't get f'd by Damping Matrix, Null Rod, but the Salvager is also a combo piece.

Don't knock this deck TOO much just for being new.  New deck engines/archetypes sometimes need a little fleshing out.

This deck can and does win quickly.  But against NON-combo decks, this deck can hold out for a while.  Against combo decks, well...this deck has Force of Will/Mana Drain like theirs do.

New Decks breed character.

[AngryPheldagrif]

I am all for deck innovation, but the basis of this deck, like many have already said, is not going to be competative. I know you were trying to point some of the other people working on the deck in the right direction, but it is a direction of losing really.

Please people use your time and effort towards another deck idea besides this one. preferably one that doesnt rely on a WHITE! CREATURE! with 4CC!

Realistically, it pains me to see so many posts that either skimmed over what I wrote or skipped right to the decklist. I even put specifically in that you shouldn't post to say "your combo is not good". I'm putting it in very large text in the hope that someone will pay attention and either add content or stay the heck out of my thread. It saddens me to see so many people, even the more respected members, just posting and telling me why my deck is bad. Especially those who resorted to simply useless or flaming posts. I'm not some random newbie making his first deck idea. I've been playing Type 1 for quite some time and have Top 8ed in several major tournaments including winning power9. Our team does work on actually competitive decks. We're working on some new tech right now, we just thought that it would be interesting to see how good Salvagers.dec could be.

I do not know why this has been moved to newbie. If the moderators do not like this then either close it or at very least give me a "Not enough content/potential/whatever, moved to Newbie" post. Inferior or not, this still has a lot more content than any posts that I've seen in a long time in the Open Type 1 forum.

We're mainly looking for feedback in terms of card choices and the tutor base. We found out that this deck still seems to have decent potential in ways that other decks don't, but we want to know how you think we erred or how this could be made better.

I'm going to use my last paragraph to respond to the one person whose comment was relevant.

Your build has 15 lands, plus a ton of Moxen/brainstorms. Is this to deal with Wastelands and whatnot? I would personally consider cutting 2 Cities of Brass for either two more Trinket Mages Very Happy or a Tolarian Academy and a Mystical Tutor. The Mystical just rawks with brainstorms!

Does Stifle have a place in Salvager.dec? Many of the non-4cControl matchups get screwed by Stifle, or at least start a costly counter war.

With enough space, the land becomes necessary to avoid color-screw with all the colorless artifact sources. The deck's tutoring power is already extremely high, and running 2-2-2 with the Trinket Mages, Intuitions, and Gambles seems to work well. Tolarian Academy seems like a good idea, but it mostly ends up as a dead card. Academy was left out for the same reasons that we cut Glimmervoid. If you don't have any artifacts it's useless. And Academy is sub-par until you have 2 or more. Mystical Tutor cannot fetch combo pieces so it was dropped early on. As for Stifle, the deck is just too tight to take something that doesnt help the win. It didn't even make the final wishboard. The only real use for it is against Draw-7's Tendrils, and if I can't hold them back with counters then I'm going to lose anyways.

-Dan

And for the record, this butchers ReapLace.

Posts merged. Don't double-post. -Matt[/color]

[Matt]

Don't use that text size, don't double post, and if you want to know why your thread was moved, chances are it was number four, Blatant Ignorance: "If you don't show us some minimal understanding, we'll quite possibly lock your thread." Specifically regarding understanding what makes a deck good, and when you should just abandon the idea in utero.

[LotusHead]

AngryPheldagriff showed anything BUT blatant ignorance in his mini-primer on a brand new deck type.  He showed clearly why he chose certain cards.  He did more testing than me, and I'm the one who kept pushing for a good Salvager deck.

The build looks good, with no fat.  No way I'm abandoning this NEW deck archetype.

The Gamble maindecked are two additional tutors, and it's "drawback" isn't really a drawback.  Combo pieces in the yard or in hand, it's all the same.  That's a whole lot of working tutorage for this deck.

Go Salvagers!

[goober]

The blatent ignorance isn't in how he optimized this deck, its that an optimal version of this deck is horrid.  If everyone here on TMD worked to optimize this deck, it would still do horribly.  This type of deck can never be viable.  Dragon is strictly better, because it is a combo with a 10 of and bazaar/buried alive.  The redundancy is something that will never be matched in this deck.  Plus the mana involved is prohibitive.  There is no reason to work on these decks when Draw7 and Belcher go off faster, Dragon goes off faster with more redundancy and disruption, and it scoops to half the decks, while not doing great versus the others.

I'll admit he did a great job of optimizing it, its just that optimizing it is worthless.  Salvager decks=Sui

[VGB]

The Gamble maindecked are two additional tutors, and it's "drawback" isn't really a drawback.  Combo pieces in the yard or in hand, it's all the same.  That's a whole lot of working tutorage for this deck.

As someone with actual play experience with Gamble during deck fine-tuning, let me interject my findings:

Gamble is an excellent tutor for cards that function well either in the hand or graveyard, such as Lotus in this deck (or Squee in decks with Bazaar).  When you have a large hand (4-6 cards), it will generally have the same function as a DT, and even if it does nail the card you just tutored for, it becomes an Entomb.

The weakness of Gamble is that it is unplayable in a deck utilizing T1 staple counters.  The reasoning behind this is that Force of Will is blue card dependant in order to be playable, and Gamble is just too much of a risk to play if you want to maintain some measure of control (read: maintain counters/blue cards in hand).

The only time Gamble is really a 100% sure play is when you have Salvagers in play - and that doesn't seem quite strong enough to warrant including it.  With that sort of functionality, you would do better to run Transmute Artifact in this deck, as it doesn't nuke a random card in hand.  A deck that truly abuses Gamble would be one that somehow utilizes the graveyard just as effectively as a player's hand virtually from the beginning of the game - which this deck doesn't do.

As for the question of this decks viability or "tier-oneness", it has obviously not come close to that level yet, but seeing as how Salvagers has utility beyond just generating infinite mana, and the fact that the restricted list still allows for 2 Lotii, a way still might be found to make this deck competetive.  This card would definitely do it: "Search your library for a creature and artifact.  Put that creature into play, and the artifact into your graveyard".  

[bebe]

Here is a listing of what makes a viable combo deck:
Primary needs
--speed
Well the deck can win fairly fast but there are many faster combos out there.
--how well the engine integrates with the rest of the deck
In fact is does not integrate that well
--card synergy with each other
Not much here
--recovering if the combo fails
You fail if the combo fails
--low complexity
Well it is more than a one card combo
Secondary needs
--how well the cards stand on their own
There cards that are useful but not outstanding
--protection for the combo
This you have in abundance
--secondary plan of attack
You have none
--the number of different cards required for the combo
Too many
--Susceptibility to hate
Yes.

Now every combo deck does not incorporate all of these
attributes but it helps to have a number of them.

Belcher suffers from many of the same drawbacks and its tournament results reflect this.

[Toad]

And for the record, this butchers ReapLace.

So, your deck destroys an horrible deck...
AWESOME!

Did you also test against ProsBloom and Zombie Bidding?

[Sextiger]

I played a very similar deck to this at a power tourney and I must say I didn't feel threatened at all despite the fact I was playing in essence, a "combo" deck. I just didn't feel that I was at any risk.

Sadly I must say, this looks just like Tog except with worse draw and no threats.

[AngryPheldagrif]

The blatent ignorance isn't in how he optimized this deck, its that an optimal version of this deck is horrid. If everyone here on TMD worked to optimize this deck, it would still do horribly. This type of deck can never be viable. Dragon is strictly better, because it is a combo with a 10 of and bazaar/buried alive. The redundancy is something that will never be matched in this deck. Plus the mana involved is prohibitive. There is no reason to work on these decks when Draw7 and Belcher go off faster, Dragon goes off faster with more redundancy and disruption, and it scoops to half the decks, while not doing great versus the others.

Then how exactly am I 9-4 in testing against Dragon while packing no graveyard hate? And don't tell me that the player or deck was bad. They weren't. The deck performs very differently from Dragon. And as for playing this over other combos, I'm actually playing Draw-7 now. But this has a lot more disruption than any of those decks. As for redundancy, you'd be amazed. I assembling the combo pieces is very simple with a deck like this.

And optimalizing a 'subpar' deck is in no way blatant ignorance. Blatant ignorance would be ignoring every new idea that comes along because it's 'worse than current decks'.

The weakness of Gamble is that it is unplayable in a deck utilizing T1 staple counters. The reasoning behind this is that Force of Will is blue card dependant in order to be playable, and Gamble is just too much of a risk to play if you want to maintain some measure of control (read: maintain counters/blue cards in hand).

a) I run plenty of blue cards. I never have problems with Forcing. As for the drawback, it's almost never of consequence. When I Gamble I'm almost always going to win that turn. 9 out of 10 times I Gamble for the Spellbomb or Lotus, and when I occasionally do it for Salvagers it's when I'm holding enough land and excess spells to make it work.

--how well the engine integrates with the rest of the deck
In fact is does not integrate that well
--card synergy with each other
Not much here
--recovering if the combo fails
You fail if the combo fails

I'm going to have to disagree here. The deck works very efficiently. The card synergy has been a problem that we're still working on, but the engine integration has been nothing if not spectacular. With so much draw and tutoring power the combo, even if not the speediest, comes out very consistently. And if the combo 'fails', I've got enough backup pieces to do it again.

--secondary plan of attack
You have none

a) I can always beat with the Mages and Salvagers. It sounds stupid, but I've done it more than once.

b) Do any other major combo decks have a second plan?
Dragon: No
Draw-7: No
Belcher: No

--Susceptibility to hate
Yes.

Susceptible, yes, but not only do I pack a good deal of counters and removal, but the deck is actually incredibly resistant to graveyard hate. All I do is hold the Lotus, drop the Salvagers, then wait a turn so I have extra mana open, then bounce it out of the graveyard in response to Crypt/Purge/etc. I can even work around Planar Void.

So, your deck destroys an horrible deck...
AWESOME!

Did you also test against ProsBloom and Zombie Bidding?

I think you mistyped the sarcasm smiley. I only made that comment in response to earlier people comparing it to ReapLace.

I played a very similar deck to this at a power tourney and I must say I didn't feel threatened at all despite the fact I was playing in essence, a "combo" deck. I was playing Tog for the match and I would only counter spells to accelerate my mana. I just didn't feel that I was at any risk.
Sadly I must say, this looks just like Tog except with worse draw and no threats.

You're post is very confusing. I think what you're saying is that you played Tog against a version of this. First of all, I would imagine that their deck was quite different from this. Unless you can get a decklist (which would be appreciated, by the way) we'll never know for certain. Not knowing the makeup of their deck, I can't tell you about how the countering worked. In this build, I'm packing enough counters and disruption to pretty much match you card for card. Of course I've got 'worse draw,' I've got tutors out the ass instead. And what do you mean by "no threats"? I go off for infinite damage and infinite mana.


I challenge pretty anyone here who keeps posting about why the deck isn't viable to an Apprentice duel. I don't care what you think about my deck, I'm a man of results. And you can't argue with results.

-Dan

PS: Minor tweaking to the deck is an ongoing process, a couple minor changes have been made already.

[whitepanther]

I'm not sure if this has been asked yet, but if you have the power, which obviously one would to be playing this deck, why not play a deck like Draw7? Sorry if that had already been asked but i couldn't wade through some of the responses.

I think the title of this thread says it all, you took a  really bad deck and made it a little bit better.

Edit: I would be more than happy to accept you apprentice suggestion and duke it out for a few matches.

[Sextiger]

If you desired infinite damage and infinite mana then you should just play dragon instead where only one spell needs to resolve and its game over.  You use multiple draw-7s which make the use of your counterspells/duress much weaker.  When you are going off, mana drain become a dead card as you can not be able to cast them while trying to supplement your own combo pieces.

[bebe]

Not to be a pessimist but Storm combos are quite different from yours so let us not discuss them here. They are far more resiliant to hate and less complicated. Dragon indeed does have a back up plans.  Verdant Force, Sliver Queen, Plated Slagwurm, etc. It is very redundant and that is why it is difficult to play against. Belcher is a problem and that is why it has a hard time.

As for being susceptible to hate - you have to deal with StPs, Null Rods, artifact removal and graveyard hate with a three card combo.

Tutors do not make the deck engine synergistic with the rest of the deck. Every combo deck relies on tutors and/or draw sevens to some extent. You are playing a control deck that has shoved in combo components.

[AngryPheldagrif]

Dragon indeed does have a back up plans.  Verdant Force, Sliver Queen, Plated Slagwurm, etc. It is very redundant and that is why it is difficult to play against. Belcher is a problem and that is why it has a hard time.

That's not a backup plan. That's either sideboarded (and I've got a SB backup plan, too) or vulnerable to the same hate the rest of the deck is. Backup plan is referring to an extra way of winning if your opponent resolves  a gameover spell (Like Null Rod/Damping Matrix for Salvager, or Withered Wretch for Dragon). Other than beating with the good ol' Mages and Salvagers, I have Cunning Wish as backup for those artifacts. Graveyard hate I try to work around, and StP is just a pain. If they've got StP then I go for a Duress. Flawless? Not even close, but still a solid backup plan.

You are playing a control deck that has shoved in combo components.

It looks bad on the surface, but it works the other way around. Just a combo deck seeded with control elements.

I'm not sure if this has been asked yet, but if you have the power, which obviously one would to be playing this deck, why not play a deck like Draw7? Sorry if that had already been asked but i couldn't wade through some of the responses.

In real life I play Draw-7 and just T8ed a decent sized tournament. This is just a pet deck at the moment. Why am I doing this then? Why not. Testing out new concepts is what creates new decks and lets Type 1 grow. Is this heavily viable? Probably not. But you never know when someone will discover a key piece or something. And it never hurts to test things out a little bit.

Edit: I would be more than happy to accept you apprentice suggestion and duke it out for a few matches.

PM me about it.

If you desired infinite damage and infinite mana then you should just play dragon instead where only one spell needs to resolve and its game over. You use multiple draw-7s which make the use of your counterspells/duress much weaker. When you are going off, mana drain become a dead card as you can not be able to cast them while trying to supplement your own combo pieces.

Without raising my e-voice or flaming, I'm going to ask you nicely to not post in here if you have nothing constructive to add. If you want to know why I'm testing this out then feel free to AIM or PM me for a lengthy expose on the subject. Otherwise just read through my entire post to find out. I've already answered most of your comments.

As for Dragon being a 'one card combo', I beg to differ. To combo out, you need:
a) A reanimation enchantment.
b) A way to get Dragon into the graveyard.
c) A way to break the loop and set up a win situation.

If you've found a way to do all that with one card, I'd really like to know which particular card that is.

-Dan

[LotusHead]

If Salvager.dec fails to go off, or is disrupted, the deck can definately recover.  It's not like Dragon, where your whole game goes away (okay, permanents).

Salvager's counters make it fight with the best of 'em!

I am extremely pleased that despite all the flaming going on, that this deck is being developed.  For those that only have comments of "stop developing this deck", that is hardly constructive, even for the Newbie Forum.

Look at the history of all currently established decks.  Fish was once mono-Blue, right? Now it's Gay Fish and a pain in everyone's arse.  Dragon once got stuff restricted (Entomb), but it was further developed to be a contender. Long.dec was shot all to heck last December with restrictions, but there are plenty of "Go for broke" 1 turn Combo decks out there now.  

Try Salvager.dec out.  It packs suprises. Keep up the good work.

[xerxes]

Wow, there is so much hatred for the Salvager deck on these boards. I feel that there is too much negativity towards this deck. Everyone likes to be the first person to dismiss a new idea on these boards. I’m not going to defend AngryPheldagrifs list specifically because it needs further tweaking, but the vast dismissal of the combo as a whole should be addresses.
1.   People are saying that it is a three card combo(Spellbomb, Lotus, Salvagers) and other combo’s in type one are only one card(Animate Dead and Necromancy.) This line of thinking is clearly a mistake. The Salvager player only needs to resolve one spell for the combo to work-Auriok Salvagers. The others can be countered because they will be retrieved later. Dragon similarly needs to only cast an Animate Dead given that there is a Dragon in the grave and an enabler. Both decks require a three card combo in this sense. But from a card advantage point of view, the Salvager deck is in a better position since both the Black Lotus and Pyrite Spellbomb are never dead draws, while a Dragon could be stuck uncastable in a hand without an enabler. Even, when a Dragon is discarded with the Bazaar it is the same card disadvantage as if any other purposeful card was discarded. Dragon is not a deck with a compact combo, the only reason that it is viable is because of the tremendous tempo gained from two combo pieces which effectively cost zero mana. I don’t consider Tendrils of Agony to truly be a one card combo because it requires a bastardization of your main deck to include many additional mana sources.
2.   What if the combo fails? When Dragon’s combo fails, all of the permanents could vanish. When the Draw7 combo fails, the player lost a lot of card advantage due to temporary mana sources, and could easily stall out. However, when the Salvager’s combo fails, it is no big deal, since it runs many permanent mana sources. Also, AngryPheldagrifs list contains Mana Drain as additional disruption. Cunning Wish also serves as a fallback when a hatecard such as Null Rod hits the table that many other combo decks simply pick up their cards over.


I hope that the talk about strictly superior combos subsides. The one combo that Salvagers truly competes with is Hulk, which caries all the same principles except a more compact killing card…maybe.


Concerning your decklist AngryPheldagrif…

The most glaring problem that I see is the lack of a draw engine. Skeletal Scrying, Intuition/AK, TFK, and Bazaar are the main engines used in competitive type 1. You could cut down on the tutoring a bit, especially since most of it is card disadvantage(Gamble, Lim-Dul’s Vault, Vamp T, Entomb,Draw7s). The half-assed Draw7 route that you took does not have much synergy with Mana Drain and Cunning Wish. If you do decide to take the Draw7 route to card advantage, then Tinker could serve as Jar fetcher or combopiece fetcher. Auriok Salvagers reminds me a lot of the Power Artifact/Gim Monolith addition in keeper builds in 2003. They both rely upon one restricted card. I never had too much trouble obtaining the combo pieces then with only minimal tutoring. Relying on drawing into the combo with heavy draw could serve as a better option. Intuition/AK has the most synergy with this deck since later Intuitions help the combo.
The one glaring card that your deck is lacking is Fact or Fiction. Not only does FoF give you card advantage, but either combopiece is put into the graveyard for later recursion.
Playing eleven cheap artifacts reminds me of one card-Balance.
I do like trinket mages more than other searchers and are good choices.
If you haven’t noticed it from my suggestions, I advocate a much more controlling version of this deck. There is not a good chance that Salvagers combo is going to outrace any other combo deck due to 3W+1W activation, so this necessitates a slower more controlling deck build.

[AngryPheldagrif]

I advocate a much more controlling version of this deck.

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Duress
3 Cunning Wish
1 Gorilla Shaman

How much more control am I going to add exactly? Any more and I'd just be playing Keeeeper with a crappy win condition.

-Dan

[rozetta]

I have to second xerexes feelings about members of this board always wanting to be the first person to shoot down any new idea (normally followed with "why don't you just play tog?" or some other equally asinine comment). Talk about an atmosphere ripe for stifling any innovation. I also agree that the decklist posted is far from complete.

Saying that, there have been some useful comments made here.

I have tinkered around with the salvagers idea myself, and it's true - it is an easy combo to pull off, despite the availablility of only two lotii. I'd personally go the other way, though - less control and more speed. Run rituals and necro + bargain. Definitely cut the gambles. Run Tinker and Jar (Tinker should really be a no-brainer in deck that is trying to win with 2 artifacts). Like I suggested in some other thread, run more artifacts and Welders, since they have synergy with the artifact plan, and can help versus control. Right now the deck list does look a little like a modified Keeper, and in the long run, it's not going to out-control decks with the same counter-base, but a real draw engine (like Keeper or Tog).

I suggest that if you come up with a build that tests well enough and is, in you opinion, solid, why not take it to one of the bigger tournaments coming up over the next few weeks and show people by making top 8 with it?

[AngryPheldagrif]

1) The changes you suggest aim the deck into an awful cross between Draw-7 and Welder-something, capping off with an awful win condition. The reason the deck is not built Draw-7 style is because then I may as well just be playing Draw-7 anyways. Except then I've have an awful win conditition.

2) Tinker was the first tutor we cut from the deck. If you think about it, why not just play Fabricate, cast the zero-mana artifact, and save yourself the sacrifice? And for Fabricate, seeing as the deck runs only 0 and 1 mana artifacts, the obvious choice is Trinket Mage, which does the exact same thing except with a free body. Therefore, Trinket Mage > Fabricate > Tinker in the deck. [/mathematical reasoning]

3) Why not play this in a major tourney?
a: The next tourney I'll be attending will be without power, as my teamate will be running our set in 4cControl.
b: I'm not suicidal enough to think that this is going to outperform my good old Draw-7 when I've got a choice. I posted the list after a lot of working and testing, but it's by no means 100% complete yet. I just wanted to open it up to other people for a fresh view after just keeping it in the team.

-Dan

PS: There have been some useful comments, but not the kind of 'usefulness' I was hoping for. And just too darn many 'Play X deck over this because it's better' comments clogging up the thread. Other than that, we're working on finetuning a few minor changes based on various suggestions, and we're also working on a revamped version with a serious synergy overhall.

[Purple Hat]

You still seem to be mystified as to why people don't think your deck will ever be good.  Let me see if I can shed some light on that subject...

in your original post you list the following as virtually unwinnable:
GAT
Hulk
1 land belcher
4CC
Trini or old Stax
Workshop Slaver

you list the following as extremely bad matchups:
Control Slaver
Gay Fish
Draw7 (should probably go in the unwinnable catagory but you didn't put it there so neither will I)
7/10 split

you list the following as hard but winnable (50/50 ish):
Dragon
FCG

you list the following as easier but still loosable:
Landstill

you list the following matchups as virtual auto wins:
NONE


so basically your own testing explains why people are so down on this deck...it has bad or unwinnable matchups against virtually the entire metagame.  It's a fun deck, but that doesn't make it good.  

if you compare this to any of the decks listed above you find that they all have good matchups against some decks they have slightly favorable matchups against a lot of decks, they have unwinnable matchups against very few/no decks.  or in other words their matchup breakdown is roughly the exact opposite of yours.  They can expect to play about half close matchups that are dependant on luch and play skill, a quarter just don't screw up matches and a quarter play very very carefully matchups at any given tournament.  If I took salvagers.dec to a tournament I'd be expecting to play about 75% extremely hard-unwinnable matchups.  That's why people don't think this is a good deck.  It just doesn't offer you the tools to win most matchups.

that asside I applaud your attempt to innovate, but part of innovation is knowing when an idea isn't showing results and moving on to something else.  If you're testing a deck with extremely bad matchups against 70-80% of the field it is a very good sign that you are testing a bad deck.

Hale

[VGB]

But from a card advantage point of view, the Salvager deck is in a better position since both the Black Lotus and Pyrite Spellbomb are never dead draws, while a Dragon could be stuck uncastable in a hand without an enabler.

First off, I have won games by hardcasting Dragon and having an opponent unable to deal with a 7/7 flying trampler.  True, the Lotus and Spellbomb aren't ever dead (any deck can attest to Lotus's viability :/), but Spellbomb is hardly a finisher and a crappy cycler to boot.

Second of all, Dragon is a proven deck - so people need to stop drawing comparisons implying that Salvagers is better, when people across the world have been T8'ing with Dragon for over a year.

Gamble is bad in this deck.  If you can't see that, then you are playtesting in a vacuum.  Of any deck to date, WGD is the best suited to abuse Gamble, yet it doesn't.  Once you start analyzing why WGD doesn't play Gamble, you'll see why this deck shouldn't.

@AngryPheldagrif

You need to stop picking and choosing which points you address - you attack the weakest arguments posed by us "naysayers" head on, but leave the strongest points we raise completely untouched.  You also need to stop defending your list as if it were carved in stone, because every single person other than you (and the surreal LotusHead) has identified serious flaws in your deck:

1) Gamble.  Too situational.  It is virtually common sense that if you are winning games with this card, then you are playing against bad decks.
2) Draw Sevens with Counterspells   .  Playing 8 counters + Duress and including draw sevens is just hokey.
3) You advocate a control strategy that dies to random hate - which control is supposed to resist by running basics and other maindeck tech such as CARD ADVANTAGE.  All you have is Cunning Wish to deal with the fact that Null Rod kills you, Trinisphere+Sphere of Resistance kill you, Coffin Purge kills you, Blood Moon kills you - the list goes on for miles.  The only way control decks stay in control is by having answers to their opponent's threats, and it's painfully obvious this deck runs out of gas fairly quickly.  Frankly, nothing I have seen yet convinces me to play this pile over any other random deck - and I am one of the easiest people to convince.

To put it simply, you need to address every one of Bebe's points - stop picking and choosing your battles, because therein you expose your weaknesses.