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Author Topic: Battle of Wits Article on SCG  (Read 3078 times)
Kowal
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« on: July 19, 2004, 11:08:26 pm »

In a format with such a deep and diverse card pool as Type One, oftentimes startlingly good archetypes aren't thought of or are ignored because there's simply not enough time to test them all. One such deck that's been around for quite a while is Battle of Wits. The concept of this archetype is simple: You sacrifice consistency for a very powerful win condition by running a maindeck of more than three times the size of your opponents'. While the size of your deck is clearly intimidating, that alone is not enough to break the format. That's why Matt and I are here to help.

Toaddy and I worked really hard on this.  So did Knut:  it's quite lengthy.  This is continued in part two, which is not yet up as far as I know.  Enjoy!

EDIT:  Part Two is up!

I mirrored this here.  Discussion is good, so...  Discuss!
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Zelc
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« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2004, 12:06:18 am »

While certain cards are missing from the card-by-card (Foil, REB, Morphling vs. Angel) and some other errors are present (no, Gainsay does NOT cantrip), I have to give you guys mad props for writing this up.  May <insert higher power of your religion/belief here> have pity on Dr. Sylvan if this thing gains in popularity and starts to show up in t8s everywhere, especially if it packs Noble Panthers.
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<Guo_Si> Hey, you know what sucks?
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Kowal
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« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2004, 12:27:35 am »

Yeah, with such a large piece, even going through it several times left a couple errors.

We ignored some cards in the card by card intentionally, but if anyone would like to know about certain cards, feel free to ask.
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BreathWeapon
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2004, 12:34:56 am »

Oh man, just wait until people take this thing to an Unlimited Proxie Tournament :shock:

Edit: I'm rather baffled that you made no mention of Oath of Druids in the deck, it seems like it could really fit the bill vs Fish etc. At worst, it Chains into Rector.
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AIcOPed
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2004, 01:56:00 am »

This was one of the most well written articles on scg I have ever seen.

good job.

What kind of record does this deck put up?

And maybe I missed it, but do you have a way of shuffling graveyard back in if needed? thx.
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but then again I think rain is wet, so who am I to judge?
Kowal
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2004, 02:21:24 am »

I'm running Timetwister, but Toaddy isn't.

The problem with Oath of Druids is that it often disallows my win condition to win.
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Toad
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2004, 03:33:16 am »

Quote from: BreathWeapon
Oh man, just wait until people take this thing to an Unlimited Proxie Tournament :shock:


I did it Wink The build I was using was not really tweaked and I had a disappointing 4-1-2 finish.

Ben has his own build all finished and almost all foiled (so pimp), and won a tourney at Origins with it.

Quote from: AIcOPed
And maybe I missed it, but do you have a way of shuffling graveyard back in if needed? thx.


I am using 4 Morphlings and 4 Decree of Justice in my own build, along with 4 Living Wish to catch Exalted Angel, so drawing too many cards is not an issue. This is why I'm not including Timetwister. Ben's build packs fewer win conditions (only 3 other than BoW), hence he uses recursion to enable Battle of Wits again if he goes under 200 cards.
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AIcOPed
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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2004, 04:50:12 am »

thanks. I had not noticed the timetwister.
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but then again I think rain is wet, so who am I to judge?
BreathWeapon
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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2004, 12:13:33 pm »

Well, I figure if you split your Win Conditions into:

4xBattle of Wits
4xDecree of Justice
4xOath
3xRector
2xDarksteel Colossus
4xLiving Wish

You shouldn't have any significant problems with resolving Oath=Game vs the appropriate decks. It's just so good to Oath->Rector->Therapy->Battle of Wits LOL. Plus, Gaea's Blessing is a VERY strong inclusion to the MD IMO, not to mention a possible screw vs Dragon. Frankly, putting a Colossus on the board "if" you drop below 200 should be just as game breaking as resolving BoW vs key Aggro match ups.

Also, what exactly are the Ratios for the deck? Is there an actual system for its components, or are you working with a "best guess."
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Kowal
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2004, 01:04:50 pm »

In most cases, the jobs our cards have are directly proportionate to the jobs of the cards in Tog and Keeper.
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LizardKING
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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2004, 01:10:43 pm »

Just of simple question :

As far as the drawing engine is concerned and bearing in mind you play 4 Intuitions, have you tested the Bazaar+Squee engine ?

And as a corollary :  Entomb can be interesting too (Bazaar+Squee, Deep Analysis, Therapy, etc...). What are you thoughts on that ?

That said, congratulations for this very interesting article. Always nice to see some innovation in our format.
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Kwisatz Haderach
Kowal
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« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2004, 01:16:06 pm »

Sadly, Bazaar and Squee do absolutely nothing on their own, so they're far too weak for the deck.  Bazaar also sets you back a land drop, which is huge.
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LizardKING
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« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2004, 02:03:48 pm »

ok, the land drop argument is fair. I will playtest the two versions this week, in order to make more enlightened comments. By the way, in Toad's build, one can tutor the SB Academy Rector by means of Living Wish, but in that case why not using Worldly Tutor too ? There is no enlightened tutor neither, whereas in Kowal's version, it is MD.
What are you thoughts on these tutors ?
Thanks for your answers.
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Kwisatz Haderach
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« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2004, 03:36:29 pm »

You never listed any mulligans in your matchups.  Does this deck have to mulligan more frequently than a 60-card deck?
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Zelc
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« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2004, 04:19:20 pm »

Three things:

1. Could you guys give us a sideboarding plan?  I know the 5 color build does not sideboard, but I was wondering when to bring in the extra Replenishes, Tinker/Colossus, and the Mindslavers in Kowal's 3c build.

2. Is Foil a good idea for this deck?  It seems like free counters could help the fast combo matchups, since 4 FOW isn't enough in a 240+ card deck.

3. Would it be a good idea to put Enlightened Tutor sideboard in Kowal's build?  Long-Term Plans is awful, and having four copies of a better tutor seems to be a good idea.
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<Guo_Si> Hey, you know what sucks?
<TheXPhial> vaccuums
<Guo_Si> Hey, you know what sucks in a metaphorical sense?
<TheXPhial> black holes
<Guo_Si> Hey, you know what just isn't cool?
<TheXPhial> lava?
Frappie
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« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2004, 06:05:32 pm »

Hey why not gamble? Gamble does the same thing that playing the deck does Gamble with that one card. (OMG if I ever suggest gamble in another deck for as long as I live I will chew and swallow one.)
If you consider gamble then why not wild research? same idea but more consistantly getting cards.
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« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2004, 07:24:09 pm »

Quote from: Frappie
Hey why not gamble? Gamble does the same thing that playing the deck does Gamble with that one card. (OMG if I ever suggest gamble in another deck for as long as I live I will chew and swallow one.)
If you consider gamble then why not wild research? same idea but more consistantly getting cards.


Rather than just spouting random cards, why not just suggest "hop on over to 5-color.com and borrow the tech they have been developing for years regarding decks sporting 250 cards".  Of course you have to factor in that their B&R list is dedicated to keeping 4 x Contract from Below in check, but it is still very enlightening stuff.
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