Turboland deck wins Lotus in Minneapolis

[Methuselahn]

I have always thought it was easier to find a different deck to play than try and squeeze anti hate cards into combo.  If your disruption isn't synergistic with your combo, it's a bad card choice.

I guess Dragon shouldn't have run Xantid Swarm and Duress all that time then,  huh?

You do have a point.  I probably should have said ~this~ combo deck and other combo-*prison* type decks shouldn't run hate (like Dragon would).  Rather, just run more bombs.  Animal Farm comboes out while simultaneously using Crucible as disruption.

There is a balance between combo pieces + synergy and having strong cards too.  Duress fills the holes in dragon. (mono B mostly)  Note that Duress only indirectly helps you win with Dragon.  You are not going to kill anyone with a Duress.

IMO, if you need to run Xantid and Duress in Dragon, then you should be playing a different combo deck.

[wuaffiliate]

I dissagree, Xantids are just another tool to dragon, Xantid is basically a win condition if not delt with. Xantids make your opponent play your game, not their own, they need to deal with swarm, or lose. It can basically be said that swarm is just another part of the dragon combo.

Although im not a fan of duress at all, Swarm is just superior in every way.

[Mon, Goblin Chief]

Dragon can't use the play more threats plan only, simply because it dies when the combo is disrupted with removal. This deck on the other hand will not die if a HoG or CoW is destroyed, it will only be slowed down. The true question is, does this need protection from the opposing THREATs or not. Xantid Swarm should be unnecessary, while Duress and FoW my have their merits.

my 2 euro-cent

[urza_insane]

I think that is a good question. There are obviously faster combo decks out there that really aren't disrupted that much by Crucible. Belcher comes to mind. This deck has little chance to race other combo decks, so having duress or even maindeck null rods might give you enough time to set up and win. Another way you could go is up the ammount of Glacial Chasms. A Chasms is game over for a lot of combo decks out there. Any other thoughts on this?

[Klep]

This deck on the other hand will not die if a HoG or CoW is destroyed, it will only be slowed down.

The problem is that in this format particularly, being slowed down is not that far removed from being dead.  A free turn or two is all most decks in this format need to set up a pretty solid board position.

[Mon, Goblin Chief]

This deck on the other hand will not die if a HoG or CoW is destroyed, it will only be slowed down.

The problem is that in this format particularly, being slowed down is not that far removed from being dead.  A free turn or two is all most decks in this format need to set up a pretty solid board position.

As the problem here is being to slow, so the opponent wins, an option that either allows to stop them from winning as well as winning yourself seems superiror. That should rule out Xantid Swarm. I wasn't speaking of other Disruption, of which FoW should be superior IF it can be supported.

[urza_insane]

Force of Will would be great in this deck, it would be great in any deck! And I've tried to fit it into this deck many times, but without major restructuring it isn't possible. The core of this deck is made up of 14 cards, all of which aren't blue. Add on another 26 mana sources and it gets really hard to make Force consistant enough to warant it. I still, however, think duress or Xantid Swarm are great options. They both cost one, and only require 4 cards to be changed.

[rozetta]

Out of interest, would an Intuition or two be good in this deck? It would allow the following things:

- get 3 horns, explorations or crucibles if you have a missing combo piece
- get strip, land, land if crucible is in play (possibly the best reason)
- set up for a broken play (e.g. will, regrowth, twister)
- set up for will (e.g. lotus, ancestral, walk)
- get rid of stuff you don't want to draw any more (extra crucibles, explorations)

I'm suggesting this because last time I played TurboNevyn, I actually ran a couple of Intuitions and they were pretty good because the combo pieces are so redundant.

[hellswarm]

intrest point to note, from some ones earlier suggestions

3sphere

it could be cast easily first turn thanks to the help of workshop, besides if the only low casting cost spells u are playing are fastbond and explorations(which are cast out first to accelerate into faster that turn aned those after it. i e expolore workshop something) , y not include this card it helps proctect u for a few turns and slows down other combo decks?  

this card also gets aroudn the problem of adding more blue cards for force of will, and it even elmimiates the need for adding black for duress
all u really want is the fast curciable to hit the board adn 3sphere doesn't hurt u much it stops the hate combined with the ability of this deck keeping the number of lands the opponet has out down to a minimal u have a much better chance of using this card to its full potential.

[urza_insane]

Trinisphere has obvious synrergy with this deck, however I don't think it's the right form of disruption for it. It could make a great sideboard option, but having them maindeck seems like it would clog the 3cc cards. Trinisphere also isn't the best form of protection, Rack of Ruin hits just as hard and Mana Drain only costs more. I think its just a good thing that this deck isn't hurt by an opposing 3sphere that much, but other than knowing you don't have to fear it, I don't think there is much else.

@Intuition
I think Intuition would be an excellent tutor in this deck, however finding space for it is another issue. If you somehow find something to cut, I would much rather fill that space with disruption instead of more search. However it deserves some testing, I'm not sure how much speed or consistancy it would add to the deck.

[MrZuccinniHead]

i have been testing this deck out against a lot of decks and i must say it is quite formidible.  I have no clue what i would change except maybe a barbarian ring in the wish board against tormond's crypt which would be splash damage intended for dragon.

[Sagath]

Ive seen versions of this deck out and about since Cruicible was playermade and confirmed. Without seeming over the top, I feel that CoW is going to be the next defining Type 1 card. Screw Trinisphere and Chalice. This card will make more of a splash then both of those combined.

Control on control matchups it is a beating. Resulting in a 'who resolves COW" first game. In addition, CoW is forming itslelf a new decktype around it. Personally, after having played against it, I dont feel it is Tier 1, but it may be with some tuning. Without any of the usuall Type one staple 'glue' cards (FoW, Duress etc) it looses pritty bad to other combo decks in the format (Dragon most notably, which I would guestimate is 70/30 easily).

Last week in Toronto, I played U/R fish in a 30 man Workshop tourney.  I split for first in the Finals so I saw alot of decks (10+ fully powered decks). There were a total (out of the 30 decks) 30 Cruicibles between Sideboards and Maindeck. Now mind you, two decks packed them main (combo decks similar to this posted deck here). It could just be early in the Fifth Dawn entry, and is still making a splash, but it seems to be doing more then 3Sphere or Chalice ever did.

Hell maybe I'm right, or wrong, or maybe its just a fad. Question is should we be worring about this card?

[urza_insane]

Crucible of Worlds is obviously an amazing card. However I don't believe it is anything to worry about. There is a huge difference (in my mind) between a good card and a broken card. Crucible is, as of now, only a good card. Maybe in the future it will turn into a broken card, but there isn't anything YawgWin about it in my opinion. Hopefully nothing totally broken comes out of this card, because I'de hate to see it restricted.

[marmi01]

I played this deck yesterday and went 4-1 with it in a 33 person 5 Proxy event at Sydney. I came 2nd, only losing to a mate of mine playing a very strong Kobold clamp deck (and don't knock it until you have tried it - it can be insane and just go off on turn 2 or 3).

I ended up going...

Round 1 - 4 Colour control 2-1
Round 2 - Goblins 2-1
Round 3 - 7/10 2-1
Round 4 - Old school R/G beats 2-1
Round 5 - Lost to Kobolds (he had insane draws) 0-2.

A few comments....

Crucible of the World is just insane and the MVP of the deck! It helps with the combo (obviously) and is just nuts vs control or aggro/control deck. I found that playing prison style to get board control (and leave them with no lands) was the way to go.

This deck is full of synergy and one I believe is capable of beating any of the Tier 1 decks! Big call perhaps? Sure - but play testing and match play has shown me what it can do.

I have also been able to "go off" when it seems all hope was lost - gaining infinite life and then getting the combo with the barbarian ring when on 1 life.

Try it - its a real blast to play and competitive to boot!

Anyway, the tournament report will soon be up on www.mtgparadise.com.

[MrZuccinniHead]

yeah, this deck can turn around easily when you have some of the combo in play.

[urza_insane]

I'm not sure if anybody is still interested in this topic, but Browsers Article on Animal Farm is now up at Brainburst.

http://www.brainburst.com/db/article.asp?id=4344

Overall I liked the article, however I wish he had gone past the surface of the deck and made a more in depth analysis of the intircies and subtle nuances of this deck (which I know there are many of). The article is for those who aren't already familiar with Crucible Turboland. While this isn't a bad thing, I just wish there were more thought provoking parts. But, again, congratulations on the great deck and high finishes Brian!

I love my Exploring HoGs and CoWs, hopefully this archtype starts to get the recognition it deserves.