[deck] Crushing Chamber-Mono Brown aggro

[Mixing Mike]

I think I might have had to play you Comrade.  I wanted to read it and make sure everything was going to work as I was thinking it would.  I'm not comfortable with assumptions, espically my own.

[Rosholm]

is this in any concievable way better than affinity? I dont get it.

[JDawg13]

Yes, this deck is much more resiliant to Null Rod than is Affinity.  That was the whole idea when we built the deck at the height of the Fish insurgence into the metagame.  We wanted something that literally crushed Fish while standing up decently to everything else and ended up with this deck.  Now that Fish is on the decline a little it needs to be adjusted to deal with the current popular decks, namely Control Slaver, Workshop Aggro and 4cc.  As Hale said above, you'll have to bear with us while we work out these changes.

[Rosholm]

that logic seems flawed as null rod is pretty poor versus affinity as it is. this deck doesnt seem much better- you have better lands and aside from that it's the same. what you're losing out on(power, disciples etc) seems pretty huge compared to a marginal improvement in an already easy matchup.

[policehq]

Yes, this deck is much more resiliant to Null Rod than is Affinity.  That was the whole idea when we built the deck at the height of the Fish insurgence into the metagame.  We wanted something that literally crushed Fish while standing up decently to everything else and ended up with this deck.  Now that Fish is on the decline a little it needs to be adjusted to deal with the current popular decks, namely Control Slaver, Workshop Aggro and 4cc.  As Hale said above, you'll have to bear with us while we work out these changes.

That's interesting; this deck has very little problems with either of the three decklists mentioned (if you play Tangle Wire instead of Sphere of Resistance); the reason it's a bad idea right now is the resurgence (while temporary) of mono-blue. I imagine that it will be all too easy for the metagame to adjust to beat mono-blue (R/G beats even), so Crushing Chamber is temporarily on hold.

I really don't see any reason to play affinity over this build when they are of equal speeds and this deck is much less susceptible to hate.

Barry

[MisterShark]

I really don't see any reason to play affinity over this build when they are of equal speeds and this deck is much less susceptible to hate.
Barry

The Affinity deck that I eventually chose to play over this deck is much less susceptible to hate, with REB, Annul, Overload, Rack & Ruin and BEB all available choices for the board to combat Energy Flux, Null Rod, etc...

I really wanted to see this deck be the bomb-diggity but just came up dissapointed time after time after getting it up the pooper sideways against Fish players slapping Energy Flux down.  Workshops sure do blow when it comes to trying to pay your Flux-imposed upkeep costs on your 3rd or 4th turn.

Not to jack this thread or anything, but just to illustrate my point, here's the deck that I'm referring to:

RAffinity 7

Lands: (15)                                
4 Seat Of The Synod                                
4 City of Brass                                        
2 Glimmervoid                                        
4 Vault of Whispers                                  
1 Tolarian Academy                                  

Artifact Mana: (9)
7 Solomox  
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
 
Beats: (16)
3 Ornithopter
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
1 Darksteel Colossus

Utilty: (6)
3 Genesis Chamber
3 Cranial Plating  

Draw: (14)
4 Thoughtcast  
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Skullclamp
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Tinker
1 Memory Jar
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth’s Will

Sideboard
4x Annul
4x REB
4x BEB
1x Triskelion
2x Tormod’s Crypt

One could even squeeze in Oxidize or Naturalize if need be.
There's simply no way mono-brown decks could cover the multicolored sideboarding options that the above build does.

Of course, with BEBs and REBs, etc.. in hand one's tempo needs to slow a bit after boarding, but it beats getting auto-douched to Flux or Null Rod.
Pre-board this build is faster with it's Ravager/ Disciple synergy.  With Ravager on the board and a freshly resolved Disciple the damage just gets to insane levels instantly.

But I re-iterate: please forget about the above decklist and continue discussing Crushing Chamber.  It is not my intention to lead Hale's thread awry after the intense work he has obviously put into his baby.

[JDawg13]

That's interesting; this deck has very little problems with either of the three decklists mentioned (if you play Tangle Wire instead of Sphere of Resistance)

Somehow I find this difficult to believe.   Slavery has never a good matchup, no matter what version of the deck you're playing.  They follow a very simple game plan against this deck: slow you down long enough to get out a Plats, at which point you usually enter scoop mode.  Workshop Aggro has the huge Welder advantage and should usually be able to control your board long enough to beat for the win.  4cc may be better with Tangle Wire (and I'm not even sure that this is true), but that deck still has a ton of flexibility in it's gameplan against you.

The reason it's a bad idea right now is the resurgence (while temporary) of mono-blue. I imagine that it will be all too easy for the metagame to adjust to beat mono-blue (R/G beats even), so Crushing Chamber is temporarily on hold.

I don't know if the fact that mono-blue is on the rebound is the biggest reason not to play the deck, but it certainly doesn't help.  I'd say the abundance of Welders in the meta right now is a bigger reason to avoid playing this deck.  Either way, the fact that Crusher isn't that amazing right now still holds true, which is why Hale and I are working on a new build that is even less susceptible to the splash damage hate in the current metagame.

But I re-iterate: please forget about the above decklist and continue discussing Crushing Chamber. It is not my intention to lead Hale's thread awry after the intense work he has obviously put into his baby.

I think Hale would agree with me in saying that the deck never would have gotten to where it is right now without my help.  I spent countless hours working on the deck with Hale long before he ever posted it on TMD.  Not to sound selfish or anything, I just think I deserve a little more recognition than I've been getting.  That is all.

[Purple Hat]

first off:

It is not my intention to lead Hale's thread awry after the intense work he has obviously put into his baby.

Jaris has done at least as much testing on this thing as I have and we built both lists together.  I just posted the thread first and played in more tournaments cus I had more time/money this summer to just go play magic randomly and I have all the cards for this thing.

secondly:

I've played affinity.  It really sucks to have null rod dropped on you and not be able to use your mana or your ravager or anything else.  Saccing your board in response works, but it's like fish vs 7/10...all they need to do is find chumps for the ravager once they have the rod out.  Ravager was worse then this in the fish meta.  Ravager is  better vs welder decks though so it's probably better then Crusher right now.

Wait for the new list, hopefully debuting this weekend if we get it done for Williamstown I'm gonna play it and Jaris probably will too if he makes the trip.  Hopefully it'll be done by then.

Hale

[MisterShark]

@JDawg13
Sorry, didn't mean to leave you out.  It's just that Hale was the one that I was messaging back and forth with a bit.

[BeatDominator]

I don't really know if this helps but i'll give it a go.

Over the past 4-5 weeks i have been playing a decklist extreemly close to yours purple hat.  ( i think i run one more crucible than you at the moment.)

Anywho i made top 8 at dragon-con with it after much beat distributing and many matches explaining that yes token creatures do indeed touch the graveyard.

my comments heretofore are twofold...

1.  are you resolved to just accepting a first turn trinisphere and attempting to playing through it or do you have some other idea for it?  it seemed like a first turn 3sphere with a waste in their hand was scoop-em-ups time.  ( had some ideas about a splash of red for some rebs and artifact d, but just can't seem to get them hashed out, i am more than willing to share them if you are interested. )

2.  Have you yet had the insano damage hand? =)  2 tourneys ago in warner robbins GA, i hit some poor soul on the third turn with a 111/1 ornithopter.  

for those of you saying WTF...

(opening hand- workshop, mox, mox,  frogmite, skullclamp, sol ring, genesis chamber)

first turn:    workshop, mox, mox,  clamp, genesis chamber,  sol ring, froggie, clamp the extra, ( draw into chamber myr enforcer) , drop chamber enforcer.  pass turn

turn two:  (draw into  tolarian academy [ooooh buddy] ),  drop tolarian, tap sol ring clamp the 2 extra myrs, (draw into  plating, crusher, ornithopter, grim monolith) ,  drop crusher,  drop thopter,  tap tolarian add 13 blue to mana pool,  clamp the 4 myr tokens,  ( draw into thopter, froggie, skull clamp, cranial plating, crucible of worlds, ravager, mox, wasteland)  drop mox, ravager, froggie,  the other clamp, the other plating, and pass the turn.

turn three: (draw into other cranial plating),   tap sol ring, drop plating, tap to add 19 blue to mana pool, double clamp frogmite, (draw into ancient tomb, skull clamp, lotus, last cranial plate), drop lotus, the clamp and the plate, drop ancient tomb, clamp ravager,  draw into 2 myr enforcers, drop em, clamp 2 extra myrs, draw into mana crypt, workshop, skull clamp ( last one), crucible of worlds) drop those, put all 4 plates on ornithopter, beat in the mouth for a whole bunch.

well i'm sure most of this post is a waste of your time, but i made my day a bit better by actually having this happen.  Don't know if it helps you out either, but damnit....i had fun.

27 artifacts X 4 cranial plates = 108
2 skull clamps =  2
1 clamped ravager = 1 modular counter

108 + 2 + 1 = 111 damage from ornithopter, i had a 30/30 crusher too, but hey, who is countin right?

[Devoted]

Blinkmoth Nexus?
I think this might be an option beacause:
-It stores counters
-You can beat your opponent with a flying creature that he will not likely be able to block. ( Extremly powerful if you're storing counters on it )
-Pump plating
-Build affinity
-Chump block when crucible is in play

Last three was ripped from somewhere  

Goblin Welder:

I think the deck would get much more powerful if you added four goblin welder. You could weld up a myr enforcer or somthing and it would buy some defense against artifact removal. It also increases the number of counters on the crusher. Also with fish's increasing popularity I think that all fish players not maindecking 2 Fire // Ice ( Im Maindecking them myself ) will have a pretty hard time getting rid of the welder if they're not topdecking grim lavamancer. When null rod is in play you dont have much use for 2-3 moxes but you will have the better use of your dead enforcer. ( If you have one ) The consequence is that you have to add red mana.

Grim monolith:

-This one just give you more mana and works if you want to waste the power in it weld it up and down from your graveyard. ( not to likely )
-I don't know what to pick out of the deck but i think it might work.

Tsabo's web: (SB)

- Good sideboard option against U/R Fish and the deck that has increased in popularity slighly Landstill.

That's the things i wanted to mention that could improve your deck.

Thanks for a affinity deck that possibly is really fun to play?

[Comrade]

In my opinion, the skullclamp-chamber engine didn't work for me in Waterbury because I never had both a Chamber and a Clamp out at the same time [game never lasted that long]. I believe this engine can be cut out and replaced by something else.  I was constantly sideboarding it out in games 2 and 3 because it didn't work for me.

I ran the deck as initially stated, however, I didn't care to purchase a Mana Crypt at the time. My ten proxies in waterbury were 4 mox, 1 lotus,  and 4 workshop, 1 mana crypt.

Sideboard was 6 mountain, 3 Pyroblast, 1 REB, 2 Juntu Stakes, 2 Tormod Crypt, 1 KCI.

In my experience, had I been able to spot remove enemy Welders from the board before they could activate, I would have won several additional rounds in which I only won one game out of 3.  Counterspells and force of wills were a non-issue for me since this deck has quiet a variety of threats.

I heard about someone winning with a Lava Dart. Well, it just might be what this deck needs. In addition it may need instant speed artifact destruction in the maindeck to take care of belcher. This deck probably also has zero chance against a tendrils win condition deck - even if you have a turn 2 10/2 ornithopter up and running, it won't matter if you didn't go first (another problem for this deck).

[Purple Hat]

Blinkmoth Nexus? resons

This is why this deck MD's 4 coppies.  You missed the Use as engine with crucible in play aspect though.

stuff about fish

this deck destroys fish.  nullrod doesn't turn off crusher...or the manabase, or lots of other things.  also, fish isn't that popular anymore, thus the re-working of the deck

@111/1 ornithopters:
you do realize you can sac the crusher to the ravager to get around summoning sickness and still get the damage through right?  it coulda been 141/31.  

EDIT: @Comrad: Losing to belcher when not playing first happens, but if you hadn't cut all the combo hate from your deck/board you'd be able to beat tendrils decks.  I hear 4 Sphere and 4 Chalice is pretty savage against them, especially when you have strips to take out their lands too.

Hale

[Comrade]

Purple Hat,

I lost to a round one two land belcher deck that used tendrils as an alternate win condition. Since I didn't recognize the deck on site I thought it was tendrils but was surpised to see belcher game 3 (i won game 2, i think).

Afterwards I practiced with him and found that resolving a Sphere of Resistance in my opening hand led to him just saying 'Go' each of his turns followed by me hitting him with factories/thopters/crusher/frogs/etc. In fact whenever I got out a Sphere of Resistance at Waterbury I either won the game or made them fight like the devil to win.

Basically my opponent who I practiced with said I should basically mulligan until I get a sphere and a mana source to play it!

[serialjester]

1.  are you resolved to just accepting a first turn trinisphere and attempting to playing through it or do you have some other idea for it?  it seemed like a first turn 3sphere with a waste in their hand was scoop-em-ups time.  ( had some ideas about a splash of red for some rebs and artifact d, but just can't seem to get them hashed out, i am more than willing to share them if you are interested. )

I am currently sideboarding Relic Barrier to 'shut off' Trinisphere, as well as act as a Maze of Ith versus Colossus, Titan and anything else that is bad. Tapping someone's Vault/Monolith is some good as well, and I'm looking at it as the Rishadan Port of T1 as far as being able to force usage of mana during the upkeep phase.
I haven't run into anything packing 3sphere yet, so it is up in the air as far as how good it will actually be, but the theory in usage is sound at least, since even if they get a 3sphere out before you it's still a manageable drop, especially since you're running Shops.

[Comrade]

Question, would forcefield be a good sideboard or maindeck choice for this deck?

[Purple Hat]

if your opponent drops a 3sphere on you:
1)play a workshop
2)play a strip

This is what all of type one has been dealing with with 3sphere.  The card is just really good.  it's possible for this deck to play around it just because of the power of the manabase and the fact that basically everything is only gonna cost 3 so you can still do stuff,but it cuts down on your explosiveness alot.  I've won alot of games(50% or so) where my opponent dropped a 3sphere but it wasn't fun.

Hale

[policehq]

Trinisphere is yet another reason to run 4 Tangle Wire instead of Sphere of Resistance. Trinisphere doesn't work while it's tapped, and it's going to be while you go off on turns two and three.

Barry

[Purple Hat]

you realize belcher just kills you if you run wire over sphere right?  you play it and they go untap, upkeep, put wire on the stack, kill you.  Tendrils decks have a similar situation because they play alot of their mana the turn they go off.  Wire is better vs control decks but it leaves you way too vulnerable to combo.

Hale

[policehq]

Well, our sideboard tech/mainboard tech is reversed because of the metagames being different, obviously. My sideboard has 4 Damping Matrix for the Belcher match-up, which means games 2 and 3, if not game 1, are mine. The only Tendrils decks I see are TPS, and those are expected to go off between turns 4 and 6. That's not a threat to me personally. I see Trinisphere, fish, and 4cc way more than I see Belcher.

Barry

[Comrade]

What about running red in this deck? Currently I am trying lightning bolts and welders and have replaced skullclamp and chamber. I'm not using any typical welding targets but I'm trying to offset enemy welders.

[serialjester]

What about running red in this deck? Currently I am trying lightning bolts and welders and have replaced skullclamp and chamber. I'm not using any typical welding targets but I'm trying to offset enemy welders.

Then it's a different deck entirely, and shouldn't be in this discussion. Point of note is that Chamber/Clamp is the artifact equivalent of having Future Sight and Bargain on the board. If there's one colour to add, it's Blue, and I'd think that Welder in this deck and any close derivative of it would serve the same purpose that Welder did in TMS, as a secondary and not primary threat. Most of the time the only thing in My graveyard is Wastelands, barring counters you're not going to have alot to weld since the things most often Clamped are Myr tokens.

Blue would be a better option, because of Tinker/Walk/Ancestral/Transmute Artifact/Future Sight, but that is a radical departure from the stable(if vulnerable) mono brown approach.

You offset enemy welders by sideboarding(or maindecking if welders are present often enough) Cursed Totem. It's insane how many creatures this hoses that are a real pain in the ass to this, as well as any Workshop deck.

[Pizzatog]

Ive been toying around with this list. I think that what it really needs right now is the adding of blue. Erayo would be savage in this deck. Anyone have ideas to tweak the manabase for this? Pithing needle works well in the sideboard as well.

[Jacob Orlove]

Please don't bump threads that are over six months old, especially with such a short post.