Permanent 'split card' (black and green)

[Matt]

Name
1BG
Enchantment
As ~this~ comes into play, choose one -- "all creatures get +1/+1"; or "all creatures get -1/-1".
~this~ gains the chosen ability.

That is a hideous wording but I really can't figure out how else to say it. Surprisingly, I can't think of another instance where we've seen a dual-use permanent.

I think it's fair because it affects both players, unlike a Glorious Anthem or Engineered Plague (the closest parallels I can draw).

[Matt]

Current wording:

Unknown Vapors
2GB
Enchantment
As Unknown Vapors comes into play, you may put a taint counter on it.
If Unknown Vapors has a taint counter on it, all creatures get -1/-1.
Otherwise, all creatures get +1/+1.

[Malhavoc]

Just the first name which came to mind: "Rise or Fall"?  

[dandan]

Mutated Evolution springs to mind

If you want to go the split route

Parasite/Symbiote

[Ephraim]

I think the casting cost needs to be {W}{B}. There is clear precedent for white being the colour that offers across-the-board creature enhancment. Not just with Glorious Anthem, but with stuff like Knighthood and Serra's Blessing. Green offers large, temporary bonuses or +1/+1 counters to creatures in play at the time of casting.

[Sheera]

In addition to the color-change, I feel this needs a cost-increase by at least 1 mana. [card]Engineered Plague[/card] and [Card]Glorious Anthem[/Card] both already cost three mana to play and are quite strong cards at what they do. Yes, yours has a symmetrical effect, but it's also much more flexible and even touches all creatures with its removal part for the remainder of the game, not just those of one chosen type. I could easily see this as a 4-of-no-brainer in T2 WB control decks, even at a cost of 2WB.

Otherwise, that card's a really fine idea.

Name suggestion: Hope / Despair

[Jacob Orlove]

I like the white/black suggestion. However, the two choices for this card are dramatically different in power. Glorious Anthem is pretty terrible, and this is significantly worse at pumping creatures. However, this is really good at making creatures smaller.

[Jebus]

I'd feel better about this being a triggered comes into play ability, but I suppose this wording works.

[Matt]

I don't think it's undercosted. Pernicious Deed cost this much, and it's a LOT stronger. Apocalypse really showed that enemy-color gold cards can be pretty damn strong and still be fair. W/B is especially hard to overpower, so if I were to change it to those colors there's no WAY it would cost more than 1WB.

I would really prefer this being green and not white, if possible.

Jebus: What would such a wording look like?

I actually came up with this idea when I realized that there had never been a card which universally made everything smaller. Ascendant Evincar comes close.

[Jebus]

How about:

When ~this~ comes into play, choose one - All creatures get +1/+1; or all creatures get -1/-1.

[Matt]

I thought of that, but then it's really weird, because the pump effect only happens when it comes into play...but it sticks around.

Example: I play this, every creature in play gets +1/+1. But further creatures wouldn't. However, if I cast Flicker on this multiple times, there would be multiple pump effects going on the stack, and it would pump creatures multiple times...it's just weird, and doesn't fit in any template.

Triggered abilities pretty much are used for something that happens and then goes away, which this shouldn't. It also seems weird to make a continuous ability use the stack, which is why I worded it the way I did. I could change it to a triggered ability (replacing 'as' with 'when') but it has to keep the "gains the chosen ability" clause to make the pump/depump a static ability.

[Jebus]

I thought of that, but then it's really weird, because the pump effect only happens when it comes into play...but it sticks around.

Example: I play this, every creature in play gets +1/+1. But further creatures wouldn't. However, if I cast Flicker on this multiple times, there would be multiple pump effects going on the stack, and it would pump creatures multiple times...it's just weird, and doesn't fit in any template.

Triggered abilities pretty much are used for something that happens and then goes away, which this shouldn't. It also seems weird to make a continuous ability use the stack, which is why I worded it the way I did. I could change it to a triggered ability (replacing 'as' with 'when') but it has to keep the "gains the chosen ability" clause to make the pump/depump a static ability.

You're right, I didn't think about it only affecting what was in play when it resolved.

[corncob]

When {this} comes into play, choose one -- Put a hope counter on {this}, or put a despair counter on {this}.

Creatures get +1/+1 as long as {this} has a hope counter on it.

Creatures get -1/-1 as long as {this} has a despair counter on it,

[Jebus]

When {this} comes into play, choose one -- Put a hope counter on {this}, or put a despair counter on {this}.

Creatures get +1/+1 as long as {this} has a hope counter on it.

Creatures get -1/-1 as long as {this} has a despair counter on it,

That isn't very intuitive.  How does adding a counter really help this?

So, instead of remember what effect is being applied you have to remember what kind of counter is on it?

No need to complicate things when you end up with the same result.

[corncob]

Short of Wizards adding rules for split permanents, you're gonna have to remember something.  Counters seem to be the easiest thing to keep track of and requires the least amount of rules wrangling.  Plus it opens up some wikkid Giant Fan combos.

[Jebus]

Short of Wizards adding rules for split permanents, you're gonna have to remember something.  Counters seem to be the easiest thing to keep track of and requires the least amount of rules wrangling.  Plus it opens up some wikkid Giant Fan combos.

It's still just a counter.

So, now I have a counter with two possible names.  It just opens up a lot of confusion.

[corncob]

It's still just a counter.

So, now I have a counter with two possible names.  It just opens up a lot of confusion.

Well, yeah, but the whole concept is confusing.  Prolly why Wizards didn't make split permanents in the first place.

[Jacob Orlove]

It's still just a counter.

So, now I have a counter with two possible names.  It just opens up a lot of confusion.

Well, yeah, but the whole concept is confusing.  Prolly why Wizards didn't make split permanents in the first place.

[card]Primal Clay[/card], anyone?

[Matt]

Looking for a name
A name like no other name
It should do me proud.

For inspiration, I'm thinking of a sort of tree that might grow in some forest which can give off spores that hurt its enemies or a friendly pollen to aid its allies.

[Trollstorm]

Maybe make it cost 2WB or 3WB and choose "all creatures you control get +1/+1" or "all creatures you do not control get -1/-1"?

[dandan]

Weeping Willow seems to fit the flavour of despair / growth.

[Matt]

Weeping Willow seems to fit the flavour of despair / growth.

That's kind of funny, but I don't know if it's right for an enchantment.

[Jacob Orlove]

Maybe some kind of Grove? There's certainly a precedent for those being enchantments, at least.

[Matt]

Perhaps Weeping Grove? Willow Grove? Weeping Willow Grove is kind of fruity.

[Matt]

bump.

[Jacob Orlove]

You could make this a flip card:

Name  1GB
All creatures get +1/+1. As this comes into play, you may flip it.

Other name
All creatures get -1/-1. Whenever there are no creatures in play, flip ~other name~.

But those flip cards are terrible, so the current version is probably better.

[Matt]

I refuse to make a flip card. All I want is the name.

[Matt]

This is relevant:

Night of Souls' Betrayal
2BB
Legendary Enchantment
All creatures get -1/-1.

[PossessedAven]

How about someting to do with light and dark...like Dusk's Dawn or Impending Dawn?

Or you could go with a good vs evil war theme...Tides of War?


Just a thought

[Laurie Cheers]

Unknown Vapors
1GB
Enchantment
As Unknown Vapors comes into play, you may put a taint counter on it.
If Unknown Vapors has a taint counter on it, all creatures get -1/-1.
Otherwise, all creatures get +1/+1.