The Meandeck Titan SCG tourney report

[Hi-Val]

You've gotta remember that Duplicant puts on Angel Pants when he assassinates one. A 4/5 beater can sometimes pose problems for 4CC. Duplicant operates under the same idea that artifact mutation does-- kill them with their own threats. But I digress.

I really like to be able to cast everything in my deck. Colossus is one of those win-more cards. He doesn't dodge Maze of Ith or kill opposing Shamans or Welders. Dupes does something that the deck doesn't have right now, and that's answering things on the board.

In regard to Ground Seal and Damping Matrix: These are pee in the cheerios. Instead of running Cunning Wish though, I would rather run a single Echoing Truth. Mana is at a premium, especially if you need to take care of Null Rods.

Honestly I don't know what I could add in to improve the combo matchup outside of something like Arcane Lab in the two-color version. Until Crucible gets THE BANHAMMAR running with two colors would be more stable, although you lose the almighty power of Will, one of the best reasons to run this deck.

[Outlaw]

What would be your take on

-1 Sundering Titan
+1 Pentavus

I am currently using your build with the substitiutions stated, now theres the ability to go infinite with Pentavus, along with having a vicious "rat pack" Sundering Titan, Mind Slaver, and Pentavus (Comin to a theatre near you via Intuition.)  Also with the re-introduction of Pentavus, the ability to deal with Fish's flying men is now aparent, along with in the stand off matches agaisnt another Mr. 7/10 you can leave one to block and fly over with 4.  

Also I like the idea of the mainboard echoing truth, we need an answer to deal with things like seal and null rod.  Meditate on this I will.

[dromar]

Angel Pants

lol. that's good. Angel Pants.

Yeah, duplicant is good. He gives a player some options. Like responding to Worldgorger Dragon, and trying on various creatures' pants, like DSC, angel, and titan. I love that card.

[negator0808]

This is the modified build I've come up with to address some of the weakpoints I found during testing:

3 Island
4 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
2 Darksteel Citadel
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria

7 SoLoMoxen
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault

4 Goblin Welder
1 Duplicant
2 Sundering Titan

1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Intuition
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Fact or Fiction

4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will

1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Cunning Wish
1 Mindslaver

SB:
1 Platinum Angel
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Echoing Truth
1 Gush
2 Blood Moon/Tsabo's Web
2 Rack and Ruin
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Fire/Ice
3 Chalice of the Void



First of all, I cut black from the deck. Yawg WiN IS powerful enough to warrant a splash, but in this Crucible heavy metagame, loading up the deck with extraneous duals can be a death sentence. Less important, but still worth noting, is that without Underground Seas, Titan rarely hits any of your lands at all.

Since I cut Will, I cut the third Intuiton. Even with black, I didn't like the third... often you will draw 2 AK's before you cast your first Intuition, and even if you don't, they can really clutter your draw. I found the "Will Intuition", the last one going for mana artifacts, to be purely win-more anyway.

I upped the lands to 16, and included 2 Citadels because of the prevelance of Strips and because Mox Monkey gives me problems.

However what I feel is the most important tweak is the addition of Duplicant and Cunning Wish... most people (including Doug) now run the Dupes but I find Wish to be invaluable... the two provide a tag-team that deals with any problem permanent that hits the table, since before any resolved hate cards were hard to win through. I wouldn't run more than one Wish... I almost cut a FoF for the second one, but since 90% your first wish would be for FoF, i kept it in the MD and therefore at 4 mana, not 7.

The board is unfinished but the Wish targets- F/I, R+R, Echoing Truth and BeB/ReB are staples, as well as Angel, which wins the combo and Fish matchups by herself. I'm not sure if Chalice is worth the space in the board, at least for my meta, because the most played combo is Dragon, which is resilient to the Chalice and the card inevitably shuts off many cards in our deck.

Now that I'm running more Islands, no black mana, and Citadels, Blood Moon may be better than Web in the SB. Its not as good vs Fish, but it is very good vs. 4cc and against Tog. The only downside is that it makes Drain hard to cast.



I wasn't sure where to put this... I know people dont like Decklists cluttering up their threads nor do they want multiple threads about the same deck. I just wanted to share my opinions and explain the choices I've made for my build.

[Whatever Works]

I ran a deck very similar to this before putting it aside saying that I couldnt make any current changes to get the deck to become tier 1 unless helped by a future set. My build didnt run cunning wish because I found it to be incredibly clunky, and you probably can notice that the casting curve of the deck is incredibly lopsided with several things costing 3 mana. The deck also tends to draw into more draw... into more draw... and then lacks buissiness spells. However, I did have fairly good results running 2 maindeck bloodmoons with a build that basically had these changes from yours:

-1 Cunning Wish
-2 Darksteel Citadel
-1 Thirst for Knowledge
+2 Island
+2 Bloodmoon

The deck can support the change pretty easily, and being able to fin an "i win" card into the maindeck that also is strong vs. the bad matchups was very helpful. I didnt like dropping a TfK, but it seemed neccessary considering the deck was incredibly draw heavy to begin with, and notice that bloodmoon costs 3 which hurts an already inconsistent mana curve.

[Caelestis]

It is my opinion from earlier on that even in the two color version, Wish is too slow to be used.  Instead of Wish, I believe that you should run Mystical Tutor, as Tutor-Tinker has proven itself to be extremely powerful against most decks. It also helps you find the missing third Intuition, which is imo the key to making the AK engine work.

[Whatever Works]

I ran a deck very similar to this before putting it aside saying that I couldnt make any current changes to get the deck to become tier 1 unless helped by a future set. My build didnt run cunning wish because I found it to be incredibly clunky, and you probably can notice that the casting curve of the deck is incredibly lopsided with several things costing 3 mana. The deck also tends to draw into more draw... into more draw... and then lacks buissiness spells. However, I did have fairly good results running 2 maindeck bloodmoons with a build that basically had these changes from yours:

-1 Cunning Wish
-2 Darksteel Citadel
-1 Thirst for Knowledge
+2 Island
+2 Bloodmoon

The deck can support the change pretty easily, and being able to fin an "i win" card into the maindeck that also is strong vs. the bad matchups was very helpful. I didnt like dropping a TfK, but it seemed neccessary considering the deck was incredibly draw heavy to begin with, and notice that bloodmoon costs 3 which hurts an already inconsistent mana curve.

[negator0808]

I'm not sure what to do with the Wish spot... it is slow, but being able to Wish up an answer to anything is really nice. It could be a Mystical, a third Intuition, or maybe even a MD wish target, probably F/I or Echoing Truth.

I don't think Blood Moon is strong enough to MD, but if you run it in the board I would probably cut a Citadel for a fourth Island to replace it. I love Citadel because I hate Mox Monkey and I can't see taking both out.

So the changes I would make after considering your thoughts on Wish are

-1 Darksteel Citadel
-1 Cunning Wish
+1 Island
+1 Fire/Ice OR Echoing Truth OR Mystical Tutor

And the board would have to change as well:

2 Flametongue Kavu
1 Platinum Angel
2 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Blood Moon
2 Rack and Ruin
2 Fire/Ice

Room can be made in a combo-heavy meta for 3 Chalices... Blood Moon is incredibly good vs. Dragon though so you really only have to worry about TPS/Belcher type decks.

[Whatever Works]

Running Bloodmoon in the board is probably not worth the space, especially if your going to be running only 3 islands in the deck. Mystical tutor is a very good card to get tinker then to grab collossus (actually good) or to grab duplicant/titan.

Tormod's crypt is a must have card for the board, because it dramatically helps in soooo many matchups that can give the deck problems... dragon/control slaver/any deck with welder... etc... 3 in the board could replace the bloodmoons.... However i have found that this deck works against itself alot of the time, and lacks synergy for sheer draw power.

[dromar]

It is my opinion from earlier on that even in the two color version, Wish is too slow to be used.

 I agree totally. Wish is a little too flexible in that you can get an answer to a problem card, but it costs too much for you to even use it sometimes.

Also, Mystical Tutor is a must have. Definitely.

[negator0808]

I think Gorilla Shaman might be worth a slot in the MD. He's amazing in the mirror/Slaver matchups for obvious reasons, but he also makes Titan vs. any deck Game Over. He kills their artifact sources and Titan mops up the rest.

He is also a somewhat narrow answer to Null Rod 1st game. Yes it costs 5 mana to do it but thats what Mana Drain is for.

I'm running 4 Islands btw, I cut the second Citadel for the fourth.

In my build, Mox Monkey will take the Wish slot, eschewing Mystical Tutor.

[Mixing Mike]

[Disclamer]: I'm not making any personal attacks or flames with this post.

From the latest list that's been posted, these are my comments.....

Mana Vault and Academy are trash.

Academy barely ever taps for 2+ mana early on, aka-the times when you need it to most.  Having to untap your Vault gives your opponent a 'Time Walk' effect.  That and the pings you take from it is enough reason to cut it.

Duress >>>>> Chalice.  Espically against combo, and Control.  The only aggro to get worried about is that of the Workshop nature, so Chalice is far to slow there.

If you're not playing 3 Intuitions, then I would you probably don't understand the deck.

The lone Cunning Wish needs to be cut.  A Duplicant would work well there, or Mystical Tutor.

[Whatever Works]

If you're not playing 3 Intuitions, then I would you probably don't understand the deck.

I completely disagree and think that statement is way over the top. It also depends heavily on play style, and if you run 2 or 3 colors. Alot of people only run 2 colors now, because they agree that running 3 colors for 2 cards in not worth it in a environment so heavily filled with Crucible ow Worlds. CoTV is an ok answer, but most of the better versions that dont run black now run 3-4 arcane labs vs. Combo that has been a decent answer.

Telling people they dont understand a deck because they dont copy and agree with your ideas is redicules (especially over a card like this). Plz consider that most people who play this deck side out draw spells when sideboarding, and if a person runs 3 Intuitions they often drop 1 while boarding if this says anything about the "need" to run 3 and no less. Dont get me wrong, its an amazing card, but it can play very heavy in a deck that already has a terrible mana curve, and often plays "counter productive" to quote eastman.

[Mixing Mike]

See, this deck is all about having good topdecking.  The Intuitions get out at least 3 cards, plus any cards you get off a draw spell you just tutored for.  Your Brainstorms thin the deck out by 1, as do the 5 Fetchs.  The Thirsts draw cards, Time Walk cantrips, Recall draws cards, etc...

The less cards you have in your deck, the more often you'll draw answers to your opponents threats, while drawing threats of your own to set up your mini combos.  You need to draw an Intuition early (and by early I mean the first 2 turns), espically against Workshop-Aggro, and Prison.

Big deal if you don't have Yawg. Will to set up with Intuition.  Playing a third Intuition does the following:

-Let you draw it more often.
-Play aggressivly with your Intutions, allowing your more important spells to that will set you up to resolve (TFK, Tinker, Welders, etc...).

[Hi-Val]

3 Intuition Hulk > 2 Intuition Hulk

Meandeck Titan == Hulk

.: 3 Intuition > 2 Intiution

Decreasing your "I win" cards makes me a sad panda.