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Author Topic: Can the current spoiler for TMD's first set be posted?  (Read 4406 times)
GerryMander
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« on: August 15, 2004, 01:45:10 pm »

I, for one, would like to see a current spoiler for our first set, if it isn't too much trouble...
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« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2004, 02:42:57 am »

I wouldn't mind seeing the spoiler, but if nothing else, I'd like (privately or publically) to see the blue component. I'm working on filling it out, but I'd like to see what design space has been filled, as yet, and where there is still room for contributions.
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« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2004, 01:04:09 pm »

I'll do something when I get a net connection back. Look for it in the next two days or so.
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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2004, 04:40:11 pm »

Well the net connection people have been DICKING ME OVER for TWO WEEKS now, with the option of making it three, so I'll just do it at home and post it via the school computers.

Also, some minor changes will happen to artifacts, because we now have word that equipment is a permanent addition to the Magic repetoire.
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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2004, 04:41:54 pm »

Quote from: Matt
Also, some minor changes will happen to artifacts, because we now have word that equipment is a permanent addition to the Magic repetoire.


They said that like, months ago.
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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2004, 11:14:05 am »

Quote from: Jebus
Quote from: Matt
Also, some minor changes will happen to artifacts, because we now have word that equipment is a permanent addition to the Magic repetoire.


They said that like, months ago.


Hey, in Texas, word gets around a little slow.
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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2004, 01:49:06 pm »

What's missing? Does any color have too much of a mechanic and not enough of its others (example: black having like 10 discard spells)? How could this list be improved, and why does your suggestion effect such an improvement?

What cards should be here and aren't? What cards are here but shouldn't be?

So far only gold, land, artifacts, and black are completed, so that's all I'm presenting for now.




LANDS

Common (5): Wash-lands cycle

Uncommon (5): Allied Void-lands cycle

Rare (5): Deepheart Mines, Magonia, Xa-On, Ruins of Oneah, Fane of Flesh

It's always good to have multilands, though maybe having two sets of multilands is too much. As for the rares, for the longest time I had Scorching Mirage as the five-color land, but I decided it was more complicated than I wanted it to be. The other lands give a nice cross-section of abilities.



ARTIFACTS

Common (11): Cursed Golem, Glass Golem, Statesman's Cloak, Cloak of Arachnids, Lightning Rod, Moldable Metal, Unspirited Construct, White Lotus, Catalyzing Agent, Breeding Tank, EMPTY SLOT

Uncommon (11): Spike Infiltrator, Hourglass Gnomes, Inhibiting Orb, Static Wand, Spectrum Medallion, Infirmary Ward, Kicker Machines cycle

Rare (8): Ingenuity, Royal Circlet, Slave Collar, Perimeter Alarm, Goblin Catapult, Ancient Speculum, Gargoyle Eyes, Æther Vortex

There's not a lot of ways to use Glass Golem in the set, so possibly it should be replaced. I also don't really like Æther Vortex, despite it being my card, because I think it may end up being a card like Strip Mine was when it was in type two - every deck would play it, because it's SO easy to use. What do you think of using Actuator, Nether Gate, or Keldon Mangonel in its place?



GOLD

Rare (10): Rift, Ku-ul Wishbringer, Flesh Dragon, Last Onean, Besieged Armory, Fizzle, Withering Trance, Swarm Tactics, Divine Right, Æther Skip

The rares are pretty well done. Direct all complaints to Bram, as he chose them.



BLACK CREATURES

Common (10): Plague Thrull, Berserker Thrull, Thrull Drone, Amateur Assassin, Khabal Scavenger, Faces in the Dark, Undying Warriror, Voidstalker, Phyrexian Soldier, Plagued Rats

Uncommon (8): Terrifying Apparition, Shifting Undead, Thrull Shade, Soul Slave, Murder of Crows, Skeletal Priest, Phyrexian Archivist, Old Kramburious

Rare (8): Reygoth, Birth Priest, Neurophage, Many-Tentacled Thing, Nightblade, Anjin Slayer, Wailing Specter, Vicious Necromancer

Lots of varied casting costs here, and lots of great cards. Is Old Kramburious a little too weird to not be a legend? Terrifying Apparition is very underpowered. All but one of the rares takes double-black to cast. Lastly, 'anjin' is dumb.



BLACK SPELLS

Common (10): Soft Underbelly, Shadow Blast, Symbiont, Cruel Logic, Entropy, Stolen Secrets, Infamy, Aura of Terror, Decapitate, Pierced by Many Wounds

Uncommon (9): Petrify, Assassinate, Crypt Raid, Yawgmoth's Whim, Lost in Shadow, Mind Plague, Putrid Rain, Eyes of the Dead, Desecrate

Rare (10): Presence of the Necromancer, Kaervek's Scorn, Hydrolysis, Soul Search, Dread Portal, Shadows Ascendant, Aneurysm, Bewildering Visions, Corrupt Plane, Assassin's Guild

Is Deathbed Conversion too like Presence of the Necromancer to include them both? Bewildering Visions may be too weak, Soul Search is definitely too strong. The entire Plane cycle needs a revamp; if they're to be enchant worlds, they need to be symmetrical. That's a good fix, because the Corrupt one in particular is too strong (which reminds me, I bet we can make a more interesting card for such a great name as "artificial plane").
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GerryMander
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« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2004, 10:35:01 am »

I say we drop Soul Search, move Crypt Raid up to rare, and find another uncommon.

I don't really like the idea of search abilities being in uncommon slots.
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« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2004, 09:30:36 am »

As I work my way through the list, I'm going to keep a running tally of my concerns. If I don't finish in one sitting, I'll post updates in blue as I continue.

I'm concerned with the selection of rare lands. There's a bias toward white, with both Xa-On and Ruins of Oneah. I don't mind that there's not perfect symmetry among the rare lands, but I'd like to see a bit more of a spread. I'd leave Xa-On and remove Ruins of Oneah, which I would replace with Volcanic Peak. I definitely like Deepheart Mines, though. It's a much more interesting card than either Scorching Mirage or City of Rust.

I am also concerned about using the wash lands as a common cycle. They're costly, but they can produce three colours of mana. I'm not positive exactly how powerful they are, but I'd put them roughly around the Homelands multilands (Aysen Abbey, Castle Sengir, etc.) and the Planeshift Lairs, all of which were uncommon.

The flavour text on Flesh Dragon needs to be reconsidered. It's inconsistent with the card. While the creature is easier to kill, it is by no means less powerful than any other dragon.

Props to Bram for the good selection of gold cards. A perfect balance of colour appearances.

***Okay, that's all for the time being. I'll come back later and work on the black cards.***
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« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2004, 10:40:26 pm »

Update: Black Cards
(pre-emptive notice: I'm making a lot of objections to the general power level to rarity ratio I'm seeing here. If the goal is to make this set very high-powered and this theme is applied with great consistency throughout, then my objections are somewhat less strenuous, although I don't like such a high power level either, even if it is consistent.)

I object to Plague Thrull being a common. It is several times better than a directly comparable creature: Phyrexian Denouncer. It is cheaper and doesn't tap to activate.

I object to Berserker Thrull being a common. Black creatures with first strike do not occur frequently. Although they reprinted Nekrataal in 8th, there haven't been any new ones for a long while. Particularly at that mana cost, even with the penalty, I think this card is uncommon material. I also object to the flavour of this card. It doesn't involve a creature sacrifice of some sort; it shouldn't be a thrull.

I object to Khabal Scavenger being a common. Consider Moriok Rigger, a creature that I think is very comparable to Khabal Scavenger, but which is a rare.

I object to Phyrexian Soldier being a common. Consider Skyshroud Soldier, another common, which costs just one less, but is on colour, and only brings the copies to your hand. Particularly seeing that Murder of Crows, which is at best this card's equal, has been included as an uncommon, this is out of place.

I object to the flavour of Thrull Shade. Part of being a Thrull is having an ability that requires some sort of creature sacrifice. This doesn't have it, it shouldn't be a thrull.

Reygoth is off-flavour for a Thrull. I only mildly object in this case, since his flavour clearly establishes him as a leader among thrulls.

I object to Infamy being a common. The closest comparable card, Venom, is on-colour for such an ability, has a converted mana cost of three, and doesn't actually kill the creature until the end of combat.  Infamy is many times better than Venom, I think and deserves to be accordingly rarer (maybe even to the extent of making it Rare)

I can find no such card as "Aura of Terror" in the black master list.

I can find no such card as "Putrid Rain" in the black master list.

I can find no such card as "Eyes of the Dead" in the black master list.

I can find no such card as "Desecrate" in the black master list.

I object to the flavour of Hydrolysis. The word means separation by water, a distinctly blue idea. The name should be changed to something more black, like Necrolysis, Radiolysis, or Chemolysis.

I don't object to both Crypt Raid and Soul Search being in the deck, but it is my opinion that their rarities need to be switched. Soul Search seems like the weaker card to me. It's more general purpose, but Crypt Raid seems a lot more powerful to me.

I can find no such card as "Corrupt Plane" in the black master list.

I can find no such card as "Deathbed Conversion" in the black master list, so I can't compare it to Presence of the Necromancer.
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« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2004, 12:35:25 pm »

Deathbed Conversion is white. If you can't find Desecrate, you're not looking very hard.

All the other cards you can't find are in the "cycles" list and not the black list.

Phyrexian Soldier I want to be common for Limited purposes, otherwise it's a trash uncommon and will probably never be used.

Plague Thrull should stay common. I made the card precisely BECAUSE I was consistently disappointed with Denouncer's tap requirement, and how that slowed it to the point of being trash. Perhaps it should cost 1B but it definitely will not recieve a {T}. Compare to that black goblin from Onslaught, and to Mogg Fanatic. It's a good card, but not overpowered (especially if we make it a 1B common with no {T}).

The Thrull flavor objections are a good point, and I will look into the matter.

Infamy would be absolute crap at rare.

'Necrolysis' sounds like a decent replacement for Hydrolysis.

I haven't played around with Crypt Raid yet but Soul Search is unquestionably overpowered, and will be changed pending some discussion with Jacob.

The wash-lands should be fine at common. They're a little better than the common lands in Invasion, but that's okay since those cards were rather bad.

With the new legend rule (see Maro's article today), I can simplify considerably Scorching Mirage. It will just be legendary now, and that makes it less obvious that Deepheart Mines is the multiland of choice, so that issue is back on the table.

Ther eis indeeed a white bias but not too much, since the Ruins of Oneah aren't playable outside of W/R. I always hate to see when WotC visibily stretches a cycle just to include all five colors in perfect balance. Fuck that, I can live with bias as long as it's only a few cards. But perhaps Ruins is too narrow to be used, and should be droped for that reason...? Are there any other lands you'd rather see in Ruins' place?

As far as overall power level goes, yes, this set is going to be a little higher than usual, probably around Odyssey. One of the hitherto-unspoken ideas about the set is that every card should have a use somewhere - if a card is useless in constructed, you should be happy to see it in limited, and vice versa. I'm far, far more concerned with eliminating Mudholes than with eliminating Wild Mongrels.

You're right about Khabal Scavenger. He's a rare for sure.

I fixed Flesh Dragon's text.
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« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2004, 09:18:59 pm »

I suggested Volcanic Peak in favour of Ruins of Oneah.

I'm going to go back and look again for the cards I couldn't find before.

In the meanwhile, could you possible post any of the other colours in the set? Blue, in particular would be helpful, so I can 1) get a sense for what blue ideas you're emphasizing in the set and 2) so I can fill in any holes I might see with my card creations.
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GerryMander
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« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2006, 01:51:48 am »

It's a shame to see that the set in progress crapped out so fast
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« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2006, 09:17:00 am »

Where is the spoiler?
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