NUKEHOUSE...My new stack Build.

[KandyKid]

Well, as many of you guys know, I love to play various varients of staX, its just so much fun times (for me, not my opponents :p) anyways, I piloted this build to a 5-1-1, this Saturday in a Lotus tourney just to scrub out in the first round of top 8...TO TOG!??!?!

Anyways, here is the list that I used:

NukeHouse.Dec

Lock (14)

4. Smokestack
4. Trinisphere
4. Tanglewire
2. Crucible of Worlds

Draw (7)

3. Thirst for Knowledge
1. Ancestral Recall
1. Timetwister
1. Memory Jar
1. Wheel of Fortune

Utility (7)

4. Goblin Welder
1. Tinker
1. Mindslaver
1. Time Walk

The NUKEHOUSE (4)

1. Razormane Masticore
1. Karn, Silver Golem
1. Triskelion
1. Platinum Angel

Mana Sources (28)

4. Mishra's Workshop
4. Volcanic Island
4. Wasteland
2. Ancient Tomb
1. Strip Mine
1. Shivan Reef
2. Polluted Delta
1. Asian Signed Tolarian Academy ;P
5. Moxes
1. Sol Ring
1. Mana Vault
1. Mana Crypt
1. Black Lotus

A couple issues with the deck now that I want to work out:

1. Should I drop 1 Ancient Tomb for another Shivan Reef? I noticed sometimes that I get color hosed, I have an excess of colorless mana and I don't have much colored mana to work with (if any). Sometimes this is not an issue, but holding a bunch of blue cards in hand without a means to cast them is not fun times.

2. The Mana Base (2), Should I include 1 more fetchland and cut one tomb/reef? The extra fetch works well under a Crucible to get the colored mana I need and to thin the deck.

Here are some card choices that some people may disagree with...

1) Razormane Masticore: This guy is the NUKEHOUSE some builds I see floating around run 2 trikes instead of one of these guys and a trike...boo-urns for you my friends, as Razormane is the biggest beating on a stick Evar, this guys plows through Fish/WTF/Juggernauts/Dryads/Togs/Creatures like its nobody's business...he is a house...a NUKEHOUSE to be exact.

2) Mindslaver: I agree that 1 random mindslaver should NOT be run in mono-red/monobrown decks, but with blue added, there is no reason not to run one, with card drawing and Tinker, it lets you win games that otherwise you had no business winning.

3) Thirsts Over Meditates: Here is a point of discussion that I really want to focus on...Thirsts are a Welder outlet, and they dig, but they dont dig as far as a Meditate nor do they net you as many cards. Under a trinisphere/stack/tanglewire, I think meditates are the NukeHouse, the loss of a turn is a minor setback to drawing 4 cards while your opponents just frowns. Problem with meditate is that if you dont have one of those key cards out, letting your opponent have multiple turns is not good times. Thirsts get the nod because they ditch a card to the grave, and since there are 4 welders, the synergy there is the NutHigh.

4) Platinum Angel: Once again, it lets you win Game1 in lots of matches that you have no business winning. A tinker-angel is an auto win against things like fish/fcg and against dumb combo like various tendrels decks and draw7, etc, it usually gets boarded out, but since it wins Game1 so often when it hits, it gets the nod.

5) Trinisphere Over Sphere of Resistance: Although Trinisphere is harder to cast than Sphere of Resistance, it gets the nod simply because you can work around sphere early (land - mox, etc) but under a trinisphere, your opponents dont do anything until atleast turn 3 (minding you go first and drop it first turn). Also, Trinisphere comes in Foil Version so obvisouly its superior.

Anyways, I posted it in this forum so it can get torn apart, also, I'm a scrub so I cant post in the Vintage Forum

I need opinion on what to change or some better choice explanations, Im going to use this deck again in two weeks for a recall tourney.

PS: I didnt post a Board cause boards always fluctuate in different metas, so there will be lots of disagrements.

[The Grim Reaper]

Hullo thar Adrian,

For a more stable manabase, I would recommend dropping the 2 Ancient Tombs and the random Shivan Reef for 3 more fetchlands. You have enough acceleration to not run the tombs and I have no idea what the reef is for. (Sundering titans maybe?)

Also, the single Mindslaver is kinda random, but you do seem to have an excessive amount of draw.

I'll post more tomorrow, its really late here and I can barely keep my eyes open.

-Bryn J.

[wuaffiliate]

i hear there is this 7/10 artifact creature that kills lots of lands. you should run titan, he makes all your lock pieces even more effective, but also doubles as a kill condition.

[riggy]

I think you're playing the deck with too many kill conditions. I usually run 3, and have run 2-3 for almost 11 months. My standard is Karn, Trisk and Sundering Titan.

A tinker-angel is an auto win against things like fish/fcg

Platinum Angel isn't that good as everyone and their sister is running artifact kill. And if Fish (with their Lavamancers and multiple fairies) or FCG (the version around here runs MD Vandals and Rack and Ruin) can't answer your Platinum Angel, you're playing in an underdeveloped meta. The same thing for Tendrils Combo. They all play Chain of Vapors, Hurkyl's Recall, or some other bounce effect. Angel just doesn't pull her weight.

Razormane doesn't seem to fit the theme of the deck. He doesn't destroy multiple permanents a turn, he doesn't stop the creatures you should be worrying about (such as Sundering Titan or Psychatog).  If he hits the table versus fish, it's no better than dropping other lock components and is worse than most of the lock pieces in your deck. I'd rather see Smokestack or Tanglewire than Razormane when playing Stax. All this, and I still haven't mentioned his drawback. You only need one or two welding targets. More than that, and you're just going to be discarding for the heck of it.

I play in my local T1 tourney every week and I don't think I swing for the win more than once or twice a night. Usually, my opponent scoops as I clear the board with Smokestack and in late game get a Crucible/Strip lock with a 3sphere on the board.

My suggestion would be:

-1 Razormane
+1 Sundering Titan (one of the top 3 Tinker targets, fits well with the Mana Denial aspect of the deck)

-1 Platinum Angel
+1 Thirst for Knowledge

As for your mana base, I'm toying with the idea of adding a third Crucible and trying out Mox Diamond and City of Traitors.

Those are my thoughts. Hope they help.

Michael

[SpencerForHire]

Any decent version of FCG will beat a platinum angel as long as they are indeed decent and run by someone with even the slightest intelligence (no offense to anyone who can't beat a platinum with [card]Siege Gang Commander[/card] + Prospector + [card]Goblin Sharpshooter[/card])

I think Intuition might be another solid thing to look into if you want quick deadly threats.  Throwing something fat into the yard ALWAYS as opposed to digging in search of fat to throw is probably much more desirable.  I suppose it all depends on how many cards you wish to have end up in your hand though.

[Razvan]

Hello Adrian,

Lock (14)

4. Smokestack
4. Trinisphere
4. Tanglewire
2. Crucible of Worlds

This is a cute lock, but I really would try to fit in 3 Crucibles in there. The card can just win by itself, it's so disgustingly broken.

Draw (7)

3. Thirst for Knowledge
1. Ancestral Recall
1. Timetwister
1. Memory Jar
1. Wheel of Fortune

I like the pun on Draw (7), whether intended or not. The problem is, I really think you need to go to 4 Thirst. 7 draw spells are not enough. They will generally get countered heavily, and you could quickly run out of steam while trying to maintain the lock. For Stax, I would also put in the Windfall, which is a really good card for it.

The NUKEHOUSE (4)

1. Razormane Masticore
1. Karn, Silver Golem
1. Triskelion
1. Platinum Angel

This is another problem I have with Stax. Running Karn isn't warranted anymore, as he just doesn't do enough in my opinion. Yes, throwing lock cards at the player is good, but the deck cannot afford to just lay back and wait for him, like last year. I like the Masticore, but I think stuff like Pentavus (crucial vs. Exalted Angel), would serve you better, instead of Karn. 2 Triskelions might also be a good idea.

Mana is fine, except:

1. Asian Signed Tolarian Academy ;P

Pshaw... damn Tolarians.

I really don't like it, as it can be rather painful to be screwed by a random Nev's Disk, Gorilla Shaman, or whatever. I really think a Shivan Reef can give the deck a boost of consistency in it's otherwise broken build.

Hm... I think I was a bit too negative. I like the deck, just I think it's not an optimal build, especially given the metagame.

[KandyKid]

I agree that Titan is a House in this deck, and yes, that is why the reef is there, I have a titan in my board.

I dont know about cutting karn though, Im having so much fun with him, especially since I run Razormane in the deck, during my draw, activate whatever, then shoot it with razormane, hehe. I killed many curcibles in this manner, but I agree, this combo doesnt warrant running a karn.

I would REALLY like for people to discuss what is better, a meditate or a thirst? his is my biggest issue as i love both these cards and it hurts me not to run meditates, they are just so strong.

Anyways, keep discussing, thanks!

PS: I'll post my SB in a few hours.

[Outlaw]

This is my suggestion, go down to 3 kills (Trisk, Razormane or Karn and add in Titan) with the 4th kill removed add in the 3rd Crucible (works well with Karn).  I am definitely in favor of Thirst as the draw engine, skipping turns can be wicked scary even if you have them in lock (cast something on upkeep and they just gained a free turn).  Sundering Titan is a definte welcomed introduction into stax, he really does wreck house and further act as a lock component.  I'd at least try it out.


-=Outlaw
Quick on the Draw.

[TheIneffable]

I am for TfK just because as long as you have the mana, it is never a dead card. Without having Lock pieces, casting Meditate can just be bad, letting them up their permanent count way too much. If you have them in a Crucible Strip lock, Meditate doesn't help here where as TfK will work within this lock. As long as this deck runs Goblin Welder I see no reason to run Meditate over Thirst.

[riggy]

This is a cute lock, but I really would try to fit in 3 Crucibles in there. The card can just win by itself, it's so disgustingly broken.

So adding one more crucible makes it a not-so-cute lock?

As for Thirst vs. Meditate, the key thing is (as mentioned above) the ability to cast Thirst independent of what the board position looks like. If you have no lock, casting Meditate hurts. Whereas Thirst gives you immediate targets for welding.

[BreathWeapon]

Thirst is also more useful for resolving High CC Artifacts like Sundering Titan,   Mindslaver or Pentavus etc with Welder. Personaly, I'm using Meditate right now, because it gives Stax it's own unique flavor. I really don't think one is more optimal than the other, however Chalices make Meditate a lot better than Crucible does.