[discussion] hypothetical red ritual

[jpmeyer]

On mtg.com, a teaser for Champions of Kamigawa showed a playtest card that costed R and did 3 of something.  While in all likelihood, this will be some sort of Lightning Bolt variant, for a second I remembered how the shifting color pie made fast mana red's domain and that Dark Ritual was a card that did 3 of something for one colored mana.  Granted, for power reasons I heavily doubt that they would make a red Dark Ritual, but hypothetically speaking, what sort of effect would this have on Type 1, and more specifically on combo?

[Roxas]

Interesting.  It'll probably be quite good in some sort of Belcher deck.  It's probably not quite as good for Tendrils decks, however, especially since Burning Wish is now restricted and Dark Ritual helps feed Tendrils and broken black spells.  First-turn Wheel of Fortune has potential, though.

As far as non-combo decks, I don't think it'll see a whole lot of play.  I doubt a red Dark Ritual would be enough to revive classic Sligh builds.  However, it might have practical applications in a workshop deck of some sort.  Obviously, a deck like FCG could probably make use of it.

[MuzzonoAmi]

I actually see a Red Ritual having a TON of potential. Not only would Belcher like it, but it would make a Red-Deck Wins port a very realistic option, because one of the biggest things standing in the way of that right now (the fact that the increasingly fragile Workshop makes Stacker 'strictly superior') would be at least partially undone. From my limited tinkering with such a deck, it really only needs the fast mana to drop a consistent turn 1 Tangle Wire or other proactive mana-denial spell.

[Lockdown]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I believe their partial spoiler reveals it doing 3 damage to something for R.  Don't know what special conditions there might be.  Probably something very limiting, like a specific creature type/color, something to that effect.

[Jacob Orlove]

Here's a hypothetical belcher list that replaces black with red (important changes in bold):

4 Goblin Charbelcher
2 Living Wish
3 Goblin Welder
2 Xantid Swarm
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Memory Jar
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Windfall
1 Tinker
1 Channel
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Timetwister
1 Ancestral Recall
1 (necro gets cut)
1 (tendrils gets cut)

4 JP Ritual
4 Land Grant
4 Tinder Wall
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
2 Seething Song
4 Chromatic Sphere
1 Grim Monolith
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Chrome Mox
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby

1 Taiga

I'm not sure quite what you'd use to replace necro or tendrils, though. At least your land is a mountain, though.

I don't know if it's even possible to run 4 jp rituals and 4 dark rituals in the same Belcher list. If someone wants to try, though, I'd like to see it.

[MuzzonoAmi]

If nothing else, it's very funny that GREEN is the color that noone is talking about cutting from a combo deck.

[rvs]

*move* to rumors?

there's really no reason to start tinkering with this thing, since it's very, very much up in the air wether or not it'll be like this.

I'd be much more acceptive to a version that tries to mirror lightning bolt, and be a little worse.

[Toad]

Dark Ritual is banned from Extended. Seething Song already exists.

A red ritual is an utopy

[Methuselahn]

The red ritual already exists.  His name is Goblin Lackey

[Smmenen]

Hardly.  Goblin Lackey isn't good in Storm Combo decks - Red Ritual is.

[Razvan]

There is next to no way in hell there will ever be a red ritual. It would be nice, something of the form (R, add RRR or 3 to your mana pool, and it does 1-3 damage to you), but doubtful.

I think Wizards learned their lesson in printing cheap mana accelerators. Seething Song is nowhere close to as good (although I am sure people use it).

[theorigamist]

A red ritual would make Belcher so absurdly good.  It would also make Death Long insane.  If you could go red rit, red rit, Seething Song, black mana, Yawg Will, you're going to end up with more mana than God (especially when combined with black rituals and artifacts).  It's probably a very good thing that there isn't a red ritual.  (Oh, and also, imagine something like TnT with rituals in addition to Workshops, and the ability to maindeck hate like Blood Moon.)

[Methuselahn]

Hardly.  Goblin Lackey isn't good in Storm Combo decks - Red Ritual is.

Oh, I didn't realize JP said storm combo decks and I forgot that FCG wasn't a combo deck.

To really address the original post:  A red ritual would break the formats, probably all of them.  It may push Yawg's Will into the banned list.

[rozetta]

If it is a red ritual and not some crappy bolt variant, it would be so hype that I'd imagine WotC might do something nasty like put it in the rare slot. Their trend, however, seems to be to print "rituals" at more than 1 mana nowadays (Cabal Ritual, Seething Song and the green one that gives a mana of each colour). I seem to remember reading something once about how they were against the idea of cheap acceleration in the vain of dark ritual. Even if it did damage to the controller for getting the mana, it'd still be good enough for combo.

[ELD]

I'd like to see it add 3 colorless mana.  They could always narrow it even more, and make it mana that you can only spend on creatures or some other thing that doesn't win games.  Mana acceleration is goodness, always has been always will be.  I'm just glad talks of restricting dark ritual are no longer around.

[jpmeyer]

Granted, for power reasons I heavily doubt that they would make a red Dark Ritual

[Bulls on Parade]

I'm just curious why this card is being discussed as if it said

R

RRR

instead of what it actually says
(R

3)

[Smmenen]

A colorless Ritual is just as dangerous.  Do you think that's what they've  made?

[MuzzonoAmi]

It's more likely than something that makes RRR because even with Mirrodin in Type 2, it's less dangerous than something that makes RRR simply because it eats up rather than produces colored mana. For our purposes, the colorless is only marginally less dangerous than the colored, because of the nature of what we're accelerating and the fact that red mana is only slightly more useful than colorless mana to combo decks.

[Machinus]

R, Instant

CARDNAME deals 3 damage to target legendary creature.


I expect something like this.

[Binary]

From the latest spoiler, looks like it just does 3 damage to target player. Oh well.

[Matt]

Then why are you bumping this useless thread?

Also: they made a red Cabal Ritual AND this bolt variant.