B/R List

[Jander78]

The biggest problem with the new 1.5 list is that anyone who was playing 1.5 can't just recover from these changes.  You are not able to just modify your decklist to adjust to the new lists.  They completley and utterly destroyed just about every well known archetype that existed in the format.  None of these changes helped the 1.5 community, it is just an attempt to create a new community.  

They DO have a TMDesque site (they even use the same forum software TMD originally had). The problems are:

1) It's a convoluted URL. Unless you visit it often, it's not as easy as typing in 'www.themanadrain.com'.

2) Noone writes articles for format exposure. Not. Even. Reports.

3) There's like a VA metagame, an upstate NY metagame, and a random smattering of places that run 1.5 in total. The upstate NY metagame reminds me of when Type 1 was more obscure and BDominia was the site of choice. Back then either you played in NGNY, Richmond, or you belonged to a metagame where simply having good cards was often enough. We all know how crappy and stagnant Type 1 was back then, right? Well, without slapping 'The Source' folk in the face, I can't imagine how much different that relatively unexplored format is currently.

Your assumptions are somewhat correct.  Let me clarify a little.

1) The URL is not a straightforward easy to remember website.  This isn't that big of a deal for anyone accustomed to forum browsing, but it does have it's obvious accessiblity issues and doesn't travel too well via word-of-mouth.

2) This is a little misunderstood.  There are approx 900 users on the 1.5 site and quite a bit of work has been going on in the past year that has completly revamped and developed the format that is now formerly known as 1.5.  There have been many articles written and quite a few reports.  They have been generally isolated to "The Source" because StarCityGames doesn't print a lot of submissions involving 1.5.  

3) About the metagame:  You are correct in saying that 1.5 is probably where type 1 was a few years back.  But on the other hand, look where type 1 is now.  You have a good community, a lot of recognized players, and many viable decks.  1.5 was already heading in that direction with a lot of heavily worked on and tested archetypes and a growing community.  Given another year or two and 1.5 would probably be a rich and thriving format.

I'm trying not to complain too much, I'm just trying to get the point of view across from a 1.5 player.  But the fact is that anyone with a vested interest in 1.5 has been slapped in the face by the DCI.  Most of the 1.5 community didn't want the lists to be separated.  My own personal reasons were mainly in fear of something like this happening (this is actually much worse than I could have thought) and just outright destroying the format.  Most people in the format owned either Drains, Bazaars, or Workshops to an extent.  These are cards that simply defined archetypes and, in most cases the decks involving them are now completly unplayable.

Maybe this is will bring down the prices on Bazaars, Drains and Shops a little. That's be nice.

 I don't think you will see most 1.5 players sell their Bazaars/Shops/Drains. Most of them will probably come over to play type 1 and will cause another influx in the price of power cards.

[Zherbus]

2) This is a little misunderstood. There are approx 900 users on the 1.5 site and quite a bit of work has been going on in the past year that has completly revamped and developed the format that is now formerly known as 1.5. There have been many articles written and quite a few reports. They have been generally isolated to "The Source" because StarCityGames doesn't print a lot of submissions involving 1.5.

I didn't know that... That's REALLY tragic. Honestly, if I had known I would have offered to host some reports/articles and links to The Source just to get more exposure.

3) About the metagame: You are correct in saying that 1.5 is probably where type 1 was a few years back. But on the other hand, look where type 1 is now. You have a good community, a lot of recognized players, and many viable decks. 1.5 was already heading in that direction with a lot of heavily worked on and tested archetypes and a growing community. Given another year or two and 1.5 would probably be a rich and thriving format.

Well honestly, I guess I don't really see the evidence of a growing community. While I think The Source is a great start, it has no real way of getting people there outside of word of mouth, which is even more hindered because one might think that typing www.thesource.com would bring them to the land of 1.5...

[LoA]

While I think The Source is a great start, it has no real way of getting people there outside of word of mouth, which is even more hindered because one might think that typing www.thesource.com would bring them to the land of 1.5...

I did exactly that earlier today, if fact.

[Garvman]

It's like the 1.5 community was building a bridge and the DCI just came and leveled it while we were still working on it.  

What gets to me is that Jander is right... most of the decks that were considered to be good, or on the up, are now completly un-playable.  There is no "quick recovery" to be done for many people who put their hearts into defining and building the decks and the format  (My deck, seems to have survived, but I don't like it's chances against the massive amount of combo that is to come).

The source can be found here: http://grexin.shonic.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi

[Zherbus]

It goes along with our comparison with old Type 1 versus new Type 1... We were sitting all comfy with our 5 mono-colored decks, Keeper, and Academy until innovation struck and made everything either unplayable or required a total revamping. It was our Ice Age, and now this is yours. Incidentally, assuming it becomes a PT/GP format, 1.5 is about to be FLOODED with players. It's going to be much bigger than T1.

[Whatever Works]

Is anyone else somewhat worried that the rise of type 1.5 will hurt type 1 growth??? Will this format maybe steal newcomers who might have been budget/semi budget type 1 players to instead just play 1.5?

Looking at it from the perspective that its a budget format (compared to type 1). It is like a better version of extended that might attract some people. All the cards are much more availible so it has a much better opportunity to grow to a level that type 1 is just unable to achieve, because power is limited (that makes me hate dealers who hoard 20+ black lotuses that could be going to better use). Also Type 1.5 is also probably going to get more support from WoTC then type 1 ever will simply because they can still probably make more money off that format (though not alot compared to type 2 etc.)

[xthexpunisherx]

Maybe this is will bring down the prices on Bazaars, Drains and Shops a little. That'd be nice.

Speaking of bringing down prices of some of the "Second tier" cards (Bazaar’s etc) I wonder how the prices of Fork and Braingeyser will be affected.  Anyway I think that there are some deck's that may be able to use/abuse Fork.  

Think about playing against Tendrils.dec getting tendrils putting all of those copies on the stack and then forking the original tendrils back to its original caster putting those copies plus one on the stack, or even better using Fork for lowering the need for high storm count (first casting tendrils for 5 then forking it again for 6).  Then think of the rule implications of it (If this even works which I wouldn't be sure it would).

It basically gives red a chance in hell against control.  Not a good chance but a chance.  It is a reactive card but since we play with the most broken cards in the format being able to copy them (Ancestral, Mana Drain, Force of Will) It can make for interesting situations.  Imagine Forking someone’s Cunning Wish Or Forking a Tinker?  It isn’t something that will destroy or dominate the format but It will make some interesting red rogue decks a little less of a pushover.  All in all everyone has pushed for this to be unrestricted and I feel it should, I just love the possibilities for how fork can be used/abused.  

As for the new name and B/R list for “1.5â€? I’m glad to see it.  It’s a good format that should be enjoyed by everyone, teach the younger players about the history of the game while still not breaking the bank TOO much.  

Anyway that’s all I’m thinking about these changes.  See you at Waterbury!

[Radjammin]

I have been wishing for this for a long time.  Also glad to see Fork off the restricted list.

I really think the people that are complaining should go play type 1, it sounds like they wish they were playing it already.

I am glad they gave us back this new budget format with such a massive card pool and combo hasn't been already written off.  If the cards are broken, which probaby they are, they will be banned by Dec.

At least I still have my cool new format for years to come.

[Jander78]

2) This is a little misunderstood. There are approx 900 users on the 1.5 site and quite a bit of work has been going on in the past year that has completly revamped and developed the format that is now formerly known as 1.5. There have been many articles written and quite a few reports. They have been generally isolated to "The Source" because StarCityGames doesn't print a lot of submissions involving 1.5.

I didn't know that... That's REALLY tragic. Honestly, if I had known I would have offered to host some reports/articles and links to The Source just to get more exposure.

I appreciate the generosity and I think most of the other people would as well.

I really think the people that are complaining should go play type 1, it sounds like they wish they were playing it already.

Most of the people that are hardcore 1.5 players, play in the format because they find it more challanging than type 1.  Without random broken starts, game swinging single cards (Will), or decks that win on turn 1, 1.5 is a more balanced format in terms of "brokeness".  1.5 is obviously limited to a smaller card pool and you don't have a lot of options in regards to Tutors or Draw, making deck construction a lot tougher.  I'm not going to get into a big debate about the differences between the formats as it is pretty much moot at this point.  I'm just trying to show that there were many players that appreciated the format the way it was.

I am glad they gave us back this new budget format with such a massive card pool and combo hasn't been already written off. If the cards are broken, which probaby they are, they will be banned by Dec.

This statement pretty much sums up why I was upset with the announcement.  Once all of the re-bannings have taken place (which is inevitable with unrestricted artifact accel), 1.5 will essentially be a budget format, and honestly who wants to play in a solely "budget" format.

[Carlos El Salvador]

Just to give you all an idea of what the unbannings did to the 1.5 format:

2 Land Belcher:
 Bayou
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Tinder Wall
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Land Grant
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Cabal Ritual
3 Eladamri's Vineyard
4 Chromatic Sphere

//Draw
4 Night's Whisper
4 Spoils of the Vault

//Protection
4 Goblin Welder
4 Duress

//Belcher
4 Goblin Charbelcher


And Long:
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Mox Diamond
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Glimmer Void
4 Dark Ritual
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

4 Diminishing Returns
2 Fact or Fiction
4 Brainstorm
4 Mediate
2 Mystical Tutor
4 Duress

4 Burning Wish

2 Tendrils Of Agony

SB:
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Vindicate
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Regrowth
1 Primitive Justice
1 Simplify
1 Hull Breach
1 Temporal Cascade
4 Other


While I know we don't have draw sevens besides the one Steve M uses on here, We still have plenty of draw fives and draw fours now.

[Rybo]

and wont those decks be raped by a chalice for 0 or 1?

[jpmeyer]

It's like the 1.5 community was building a bridge and the DCI just came and leveled it while we were still working on it.  

What gets to me is that Jander is right... most of the decks that were considered to be good, or on the up, are now completly un-playable.  There is no "quick recovery" to be done for many people who put their hearts into defining and building the decks and the format  (My deck, seems to have survived, but I don't like it's chances against the massive amount of combo that is to come).

The source can be found here: http://grexin.shonic.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi

Here's a little secret: when you write for a site like Star City, your viewship increases many, many fold.  The same is true for going from Star City to mtg.com.  You might have 900 registered members at The Source, but if you look at mtg.com,  up to 15 THOUSAND people vote on the polls in Aaron Forsythe's weekly column.  Get out there and write!

[BreathWeapon]

Just to give you all an idea of what the unbannings did to the 1.5 format, people will now be owned by Null Rod more than ever.

[Covetous]

These sweeping changes are very interesting.  I'm not really sure what to make of them.  The type 1 changes are unsurprising and I don't really expect a lot to change, although people keep saying that Doomsday has potential.  I don't really know--I have never played with it.  The drastic changes to type 1.5 come as quite a surprise, however.  Sure, some of the cards there seem to be too broken for a non-broken format.  But the statements that people have made about completely destroying all of the tier-1 decks seems appropriate.  Of course, I couldn't name more than one tier-1 type 1.5 deck if I had to--Dragon and LandStill are the only ones that I have heard are actually good.  Sure there are Mask decks and maybe something abusing Workshop, but I was certainly under the impression that Dragon was even better in 1.5 than in type 1 and that LandStill was one of the only ways to deal with it effectively.  

Maybe I'm wrong, but this belief had kept me from being interested in type 1.5--it seemed like there were two really good decks, a few pretty good decks, and a bunch of scrubby stuff.  This is total opinion, of course, not really based off anything--just from the limited info that I had gathered.  Now, it seems that 1.5 will no longer have its old, tried-and-true archetypes and will simply be decks from other formats adapted to the 1.5 card pool.  Belcher especially seems disgusting, and I wouldn't be shocked if several standard or extended decks came out to play.  Affinity with Lotus Petal seems unfair to me.  So, in my eyes, type 1.5 has changed from a bastard format that most people don't know or don't care about that has only a few really good decks to a bastard format with the same decks as other formats but using some older cards, like dual lands, sort of like extended with duals.  

The separation of the type 1 and type 1.5 B/R lists seems like a good move, but I still raise an eyebrow at the unbanning of the 0cc mana acclerants.  I am pretty sure that my interest in 1.5 won't really change, just my reasons for not being interested.  I guess that budget players will be excited because they don't need expensive cards to play a classic/vintage/old-school format, but if I was a budget player I would play a format other than type 1 (or else I would play Fish).  I will stick to type 1 because I have the cards for it and it seems to be the most balanced of all formats--sure, decks can win turn 1 or 2, but the format has the tools to handle these decks, unlike type 2, where decks can win turn 3 or 4 and there's not a whole hell of a lot you can do about it.  Based on the number of viable decks, I still think that type 1 has the edge despite the abundance of broken, game-swinging cards.  At least everyone can play with or against them.  

Maybe all of the type 1.5 players in upstate New York (where I have recently moved) will begin to play type 1, which I prefer--right now, there aren't any type 1 events in Rochester but there are type 1.5 tourneys every week.  Anyone in Rochester who wants to play The Gentlemen's Format (type 1) drop me a PM.

[goober]

I made that Belcher, and Null Rod doesn't rape it.  I can win easily before they play it, and I run 4 Oxidize MD now.

[Bulls on Parade]

I'm in love with this format. It's exactly what I've hoped to see since forever.. a format of ridiculuosly overpowered (read: accelerated) bad decks. I don't know what could be more fun to play than this, honestly, and I really hope it receives some serious WotC support.

I made that Belcher, and Null Rod doesn't rape it.  I can win easily before they play it, and I run 4 Oxidize MD now.

Your list is actually far from optimal. I'm not going to muck up this thread with decklists, but I really, really hope someone makes a temporary board for discussing the new "1.5" format. If this format becomes a PT style format, I'm going to do everything I can to support it. To pioneer seems like a strong word for what I'm trying to explain, but it's my goal, essentially.

[AngryPheldagrif]

Illusionary Mask

  haters

That is all.

-Dan

[Jacob Orlove]

This thread could have served a useful purpose. Instead, it brought the magic of IRC to tmd. So anyway, closed.