[Report+Deck] Team GRO's BBC takes 5th at Waterbury

[Ultima]

BBC- Blue Belcher Control by Team GRO


Mono-blue belcher was a concept like many others that was born in Extended.   Extended teams started looking at belcher as a potent win condition when the spoiler for mirrodin first came about.  Then in testing, decks like “The Clock,â€? arose to take on the field of decks in Extended but Belcher couldn’t compare to the latent power of Tinker-Stax at the time.  To be fair, not a lot of other decks could either.

The concept for Belcher in T1 grew at first from the combo perspective.  Recently, Belcher combo took a Top 8 spot at Gencon symbolizing that Belcher Combo is perhaps the best instant win combo deck in T1 next to DeathLong.  

The idea for control Belcher for us however began when we started seeing control Belcher make an impact in 1.5.  When we saw the potential that it had in 1.5 beating the top tier 1.5 decks, we started to wonder if Mono-Blue was again a viable archetype.  Then our suspicions were further confirmed when Steve Menendian took a top 8 spot at Gencon with Mono-Blue using the traditional Morphling.  From this we gathered that indeed Mono-blue was a viable archetype but readily agreed that as a win condition, Morphling is aweful.  Back in the day when the format wasn’t as fast and fat, Morphling was a great win.  Now however, he’s just simply too slow, small, and mana intensive.  When we say fat, we’re referring to the fact that most decks that win by creatures now use creatures that are way bigger than anything Morphing can handle, i.e. Juggernaut, Sundering Titan, Darksteel Colossus to name a few.  Moreover, these same decks are have recursion abilities to bring back their men while morphling has no such back-up.  Fish is really the only deck that wins through the use of smaller men.  
As a win condition, Goblin Charbelcher is simply amazing for mono-blue.  It doesn’t suffer from creature removal, is removal for problem creatures, isn’t color-intensive to use and can win in one turn.  Mono-blue simply couldn’t have had a better win condition right now.  When we realized just from how fast the goldfish rate was from the original concept build, we knew this deck was tier 1.  And speaking from a metagame perspective, there simply wasn’t a better choice around.  The power of wastes and Back to Basics is overwhelmingly good right now as most already know.  The format is filled with non-basic tempo decks like 4CC and Fish.  Then add a crap load of counterspells with a 1-turn clock win condition and you have a mono-blue version of tog with the same draw, better answers, MD hate, and same goldfish rate.          

The first T1 versions of BBC looked like this

2 Goblin Charbelcher
2 Mana Severance
2 Misdirection
3 Mana Leak
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
2 Back to Basics
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Merchant Scroll
2 Cunning Wish
2 Intuition
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
1 Stripmine
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Wasteland
7 Island


This build was a rough sketch to begin with but the goldfish rate was putting us in shock.  In testing, it was becoming readily obvious that this could easily kill around turn 3-4 if you got the nut draw.  As well though, Library was not very good here and wastelands were just providing random wins.  Also, it was becoming abundantly clear that mana drain was insane in this deck.  There are so many sinks in this deck that mana drain easily shortens the clock of this deck by at least 1-2 turns.   Here mana drain is to BBC like animate dead is to Dragon.

Although I didn’t plan on it, at the last minute I decided to go to Newington to play for Stok’s Lotus.  The night before the long haul at about 1 AM, I made some changes and ended up with:

2 Goblin Charbelcher
3 Mana Severance
2 Misdirection
3 Mana Leak
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Back to Basics
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Tinker
2 Cunning Wish
3 Intuition
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
5 Moxen
5 Fetchland
6 Island
4 Wasteland
1 Stripmine

SB
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Back to Basics
2 Deep Analysis
2 Hurkyl’s Recall
2 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Propaganda


With this build I went undefeated in the Swiss and drew the last 2 rounds to a 4-0-2 record.  In the Swiss, I played 2 rounds to Fish and 4CC played by Samite Healer.  The other match was Draw7 which was not that difficult really.  BBC finished 3rd in the tourny though due to mana screw against Fish in game 3.  

Altogether though, after that experience and more testing, we felt there wasn’t a better deck more prepared for the metagame.  

Team GRO’s BBC Waterbury version

Kill//
2 Goblin Charbelcher
2 Mana Severance

Counterbase//
4 Mana Leak- (could be 3 mana leak and 1 misdirection)
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
Hosers//
3 Back to Basics

Draw and Search//
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
2 Cunning Wish
2 Intuition
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm

Manabase//
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
1 Flooded Strand
1 Stripmine
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
7 Island

SB//
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Deep Analysis
2 Hurkyl’s Recall
2 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Propaganda

This final build is more controlling than the previous.  Playing 3 Mana Severance makes this deck a bit more comboish but you’ll often find that your siding at least 1 out all the time versus control.  The same goes for Intuition really.  If your playing less than 3 mana severance, than there really isn’t any reason play a third intuition.  Merchant scroll is much more versatile here.   The darksteel colossus is for the fish and other aggro matches where they spend all their resources resolving null rod and you can simply go on to play your bombs like B2B and propaganda then tinker for it.  This way null rod ends up doing nothing games 2 and 3.  Null Rod usually gives your opponent a false sense of security which is a huge advantage.  If you expect heavy control, then 3 leak and 1 mis-d might be the better choice, but you think you’ll see more aggro and artifact- based decks then 4 leak is the best route.

Waterbury began the same way it always does for us Jersey players really.  We got up early, changed to one or two cars and started the long haul to Waterbury.  When I got there, I met up with good friend /teammate Steve (Grand Inquisitor) and caught up with how the Hadley guys are doing.  I want to go on record right now and say that Hadley is one the coolest and nicest teams this side of the US and they make every northern tourney a hell of a lot of fun.  

Round 1- U/R/G TnT

Game 1- He played an early jug but I soon bounced it with a wished chain of vapor.  I played a belcher and just belched him to death.  You know welders and survival are just not that good when you have a belcher down.

Game 2- I resolved early propagandas and kept him mana light with wastes.  When he finally got a mana base, I played a severance and then a tinker to end it.

1-0

Round 2- Squirrel Craft

Game 1- He played 3 squirrel nests in a row and I could only counter 2 of them.  I desperately search for a belcher but only see more land.  He wins from squirrel beatdown and I’m already upset.

Game 2- He has roughly the exact same opening with ancestral which I think is questionable.  Propaganda slows the game down though and I tinker for colossus and win.

Game 3- Again he starts off with moxs, recall, then 3 squirrel nests.  I feel it s my fault for not doing a deck check by this time.  I topdeck nothing but land and while he keeps dropping squirrels.  I lose and am very discouraged.

1-1

Round 3- U/R Fish

Game 1- I get mana-screwed and he wins easily.

Game 2- I drop a propaganda followed by a Back to Basics when he sees the win condition hit, he scoops.
Game 3- The same thing where I resolve a Back to Basics, then a Propaganda and he loses to belcher/severance soon after.

Round 4- Nantuko Rice- Mono-U with a splash of red

Game 1- He gets a crappy draw as I win one counter war and start resolving all sorts of business.  Then I resolve a belcher but lose the counter war over the severance.  I think he thought that he was safe for a while after that when he played an ophidian in his turn.  When the belcher started hitting his dome for 4-5 damage a turn, it was evident that wasn’t true.

Game 2- I resolved an early intuition with DAs and aks and started drawing a lot of cards.  He resolved an ophidian and it really didn’t matter.  It was obvious what the better engine was.  I wasted his one volc and played a tinker with double drain up.  He pondered it for a while and let it resolve but didn’t expect to see colossus come down.

3-1

Round 5- Control Slaver

Game 1- He resolved a second turn tinker for colossus through my force.

Game 2- I countered his early welders and played a Back to Basics.  Then I tinkered for colossus for the game.

Game 3- My early wastes really slowed him down.  I resolved a belcher then a severance but only had 2 mana which stayed open for drain.  He attempted a tinker but that got drained and ended the game.

4-1

Round 6- Bulls on Parade- Dragon

Game 1- I used my only waste on his bayou not knowing he was playing Dragon.  He used Bazaar and won with enormous card advantage.

Game 2- He played a first turn Xantid swarm but my early wastes slowed him down long enough for me severance/belcher before he could win.

Game 3- I kept a hand with counters, draw, 3 wastes and no islands.  I figure I had about 3 turns to draw islands.  I wasted his first 3 lands and mana-screwed him for the remainder of the game while belcher finished it.

5-1

Round 7- B/U TPS

Game 1- He resolved an early Bargain through my force and won easily.

Game 2- I resolved an early chalice for 0, followed by a chalice for 1 and he scooped.

Game 3- I had to mulligan to 5 and he duressed me twice before playing a tinker for colossus and ending it.

5-2

Round 8- White Weenie

Game 1- He played a lot of land taxes and used weenies to get me to 1 before I severanced and belchered him for the win.

Game 2- I just ignored him while he got the tax/scroll rack engine going.  I just severanced and belched again for the win.

6-2

So I make top 16 as the last seed which kinda sucks cause Steve is the top seed.

Top 16

Match 1- Steve with GAT

I admit that I did not test this match up nor did Steve because neither of us expected to play it this way, but with both of us having so much experience with both decks, I guess that was enough.

Game 1- Steve mulliganed and kept a bad hand.  I wasted his early land, then resolved back to basics for win.

Game 2- Steve countered all my draw spells but I still resolved B2B and Propaganda soon after.  I also drew 4 strips early which he fought back with Fastbond.  I countered his crucible and proceeded to topdeck more answers.  I would then go on to tinker for colossus and win.

Top8

Match 1- B/U TPS

Game 1- I was very hesitant about this match as it was the only one I felt was weak.  I countered his early stuff and resolved mana severance.  I topdecked mystical tutor and hoped to God that he didn’t topdeck the force so I could tinker into belcher for the win.  He did though and I had nothing left.  Then he tinkered for colossus and I took a hit.  Then I brainstormed into lotus and wish to chain of vapor his colossus back to hand.  After some turns of draw -go, I picked up 2 leaks and a drain.  I was nine though and he played three dark rituals with me only able to counter 2 then tendrils for the win.

Game 2- I kept a hand holding both belcher and colossus because it had first and second turn counters.  I countered his first wave of stuff and dropped a chalice for 0.  Then I hardcasted belcher and drained his force.  Next turn I hardcasted colossus from drain mana and won.  That was a great game.

Game 3- I kept a decent hand with first turn leak, second turn drain and some draw.  He duressed my leak and then went off second turn for the win.  I couldn’t do anything about it.

Then Ray tells me I have to play Brassman, then Method to see who takes the pearl in 5th.

Brassman – Tog

Game 1- He keeps a library hand which I counter with wastes. He doesn’t know what I’m playing but I outcounter him for a resolved intuition.  Then after I resolve then tinker for belcher, he knows.

Game 2- My early wastes keep him mana short and DAs with aks outdraw him to the belcher and severance combo.

Method- Meandeck Titan

Game 1- Early wastes keep his red off the table.  I resolve some draw and severance/ belcher him before he can stabilize.

Game 2- He outcounters me early when starts playing aks first.  He resolves a titan and a welder to which I’m holding back an intuition and hurkyl’s recall.  At the end of his turn, I recall him which he counters and respond with intuition ak for 5.  I then tinker for colossus, BEB his welder, and hurkyl’s recall him again for the game.  


Conclusion

So that’s how BBC took 5th at Waterbury.   I feel this deck is at the very least tier 1 with its only match up conflict being Italian TPS and possible Deathlong.  Because I expect both of these two decks to be more prominent after Waterbury, BBC should see some changes for a combo-metagame.  We really feel that BBC is the evolution of mono-u if it is to be a viable archetype.  We feel this because the metagame is so perfect for it and it has such a good game against the top tier decks namely, 4CC, Fish, and artifact aggro or stax.  

As far as the tourney goes, congratulations to Rich and I hope everybody had a lot of fun.  I really must say that Ray’s tournies are better than any DCI event I have ever seen and I hope he continues to have more amazing events.  There were a lot of amazing players there and the competition was astoundingly good.  Again I hope everybody had as much fun as I did.  

Later

John

Thoguhts/Comments?

[luke_twigger]

Round 2- Squirrel Craft

Game 1- He played 3 squirrel nests in a row and I could only counter 2 of them.  I desperately search for a belcher but only see more land.  He wins from squirrel beatdown and I’m already upset.

Game 2- He has roughly the exact same opening with ancestral which I think is questionable.  Propaganda slows the game down though and I tinker for colossus and win.

Game 3- Again he starts off with moxs, recall, then 3 squirrel nests.  I feel it s my fault for not doing a deck check by this time.  I topdeck nothing but land and while he keeps dropping squirrels.  I lose and am very discouraged.

Did you shuffle his deck after he presented?

BTW, thanks for spending the time to write an indepth and interesting report.

Luke


http://www.wizards.com/dci/downloads/Magic_FLR_20Jun04.doc

114.   Pregame Procedure
Before a game begins, players determine who plays first (see section 113). This may be done any time during the pregame procedure before the players look at their hands. (Note that players are not required to decide who plays first before sideboarding.) The following steps must be performed before each game begins:

1.   Players may exchange cards in their decks for cards in their sideboards (only after the first game of the match).
2.   Players shuffle their decks (see Universal Tournament Rules, section 21). Note that players may stop shuffling to perform additional sideboarding, but must then shuffle sufficiently.
3.   Players present their decks to their opponents for additional shuffling and cutting.
4.   If the opponent has shuffled the player’s deck, that player may make one final cut.
5.    Players present their sideboards and put them in a clearly distinguishable place.
6.   Each player draws seven cards.
7.   Each player, in turn, decides whether to mulligan (see section 115).

Once mulligans are resolved, the game can begin.

[rvs]

@luke: this tournament (Waterbury) was unsanctioned. Different standards could apply.

[LoA]

Different standards apply only in the sense that proxies are allowed.  I always cut my opponent's deck unless I'm playing a friend at the local coffee shop.  If I feel they didn't shuffle their deck adaquately, I'll shuffle it too (although not riffle shuffle, that's just mean).

[DavidHernandez]

Great report John. It's really a great deck!

As we've discussed, I think Colossus needs to be maindecked. The proof really comes from your last 2 experiences playing in big tourneys--Colossus always comes in, and seems to be a better win condition than the Belcher.

Congrats!

Dave.

[Comrade]

Are T1 events outside of Gencon ever sanctioned?

[Devoted]

Congratulations for the 5th place.
It was a great report also.

I dont think any serious tournament organizer is going to stop you from cutting your opponents deck. Do you think so?

@luke: this tournament (Waterbury) was unsanctioned. Different standards could apply.

[DavidHernandez]

Are T1 events outside of Gencon ever sanctioned?

Yes, but it's extremely rare. Attendence is low because few players have full power. The 5-10 proxy tourneys bring in people, but can't be sanctioned.

dave.

[BreathWeapon]

Great report John. It's really a great deck!

As we've discussed, I think Colossus needs to be maindecked. The proof really comes from your last 2 experiences playing in big tourneys--Colossus always comes in, and seems to be a better win condition than the Belcher.

Congrats!

Dave.

I really have to second this, ever since I took Steve's Mono-U list and integrated Tinker, Mystical Tutor, Darksteel Colossus, Platinum Angel and Crucible of Worlds I've managed to simply win games other Mono-U decks couldn't. You obviously have no use for the latter two Artifacts, but MD DC is Teh Nutz.

Also,  I think Mono-U is a stable platform for all sorts of 2-Card Combos. It's really just a question of which is best and what Draw Engines to use. Illusions/Donate, Belcher/Severence and Show&Tell/Colossus are all worth investigating, and Gifts Ungiven is a Bomb in Waiting for Mono-U.

[DavidHernandez]

and Show&Tell/Colossus are all worth investigating

Yeah, i have a build for this ready to go, but don't have anywhere to play it.

dave.

[Ultima]

Gifts ungiven sounds interesting but I can't see what you can do past resolving one because you have to play at least 4 different counters which is extremely difficult when playing Intuition/AK or if going for more draw, you need to play deep anal main also.  The deck is extremely slot tight as it is.

On another note thanks for the compliments fellas.

[Sr0mZ0]

First, congrats for this 5th place with an nonarchetype deck

Just 2 questions about your deck:

Why you no't playing 1 B2B more? It's a great lock condition...
Why not playing darksteel colosus MD, good kill condition vs lot's of aggro none-white combo deck.

Sry for my english

[rvs]

Are T1 events outside of Gencon ever sanctioned?

Yes, but it's extremely rare. Attendence is low because few players have full power. The 5-10 proxy tourneys bring in people, but can't be sanctioned.

dave.

However, in Europe, we have the coolest santioned stuff. Like Eindhoven's T1 - Even Toad is afraid to show up there!

[Smmenen]

Conclusion

So that’s how BBC took 5th at Waterbury.   I feel this deck is at the very least tier 1 with its only match up conflict being Italian TPS and possible Deathlong.  Because I expect both of these two decks to be more prominent after Waterbury, BBC should see some changes for a combo-metagame.  We really feel that BBC is the evolution of mono-u if it is to be a viable archetype.  

I don't see you can say this given that a mono blue deck placed 3rd, a full round higher than you.  Moreover, how do you plan on beating mono blue - which seems to me, hands down, to be your worst matchup.  You have identically dead cards, but you have two two cards combos and it should not be difficult at ALL for mono blue to counter both Belchers with Phids active.

[Nameless]

Conclusion

So that’s how BBC took 5th at Waterbury.   I feel this deck is at the very least tier 1 with its only match up conflict being Italian TPS and possible Deathlong.  Because I expect both of these two decks to be more prominent after Waterbury, BBC should see some changes for a combo-metagame.  We really feel that BBC is the evolution of mono-u if it is to be a viable archetype.  

I don't see you can say this given that a mono blue deck placed 3rd, a full round higher than you.  Moreover, how do you plan on beating mono blue - which seems to me, hands down, to be your worst matchup.  You have identically dead cards, but you have two two cards combos and it should not be difficult at ALL for mono blue to counter both Belchers with Phids active.

Well, I think what he is saying is that he's just plain faster then Mono-U, by a long shot; with this being the case then it's a matter of who had the better early draw on counterspells and who didn't if you ask me.  If he gets a Belcher those Ophidians aren't going to draw a damn thing even without the other combo card for the kill; but at the same time, if you get your Ophidians going then that Belcher won't see the light of day.

[Smmenen]

Faster than mono blue?  

Everything is faster than mono blue  that isn't an evolutionary leap, that's an inherent truth that every deck ever will be faster than mono blue.  It's impossible not to be.  Mono Blue control is by definition the slowest deck in any format.

[Nameless]

Faster than mono blue?  

Everything is faster than mono blue  that isn't an evolutionary leap, that's an inherent truth that every deck ever will be faster than mono blue.  It's impossible not to be.  Mono Blue control is by definition the slowest deck in any format.

Actually, I recall a time when 'Turbo' Zvi versions of Mono-Blue reigned terror down on the T1 community taking tournament after tournament until Fact or Fiction caught an untimely demize.

And...  While it may not win fast, most people with common sense know when the game is over, and that can happen very quickly with MB.  I was generally referring to how draw-dependent the matchup is.

And, again...  While you say it's slow, did you not resolve several 1st-turn Ophidians?  As I say, winning by life totals may have been slow, but the actual game was over very quickly.  Some people just don't know when to scoop.  But, I think you covered that nicely in Zherbi's Waterbury report.

[Smmenen]

Those decks aren't mono blue control.  Legend Blue was Aggro-Control and won like GroAtog did.  

Smmenen Blue is essentially Buehler Blue - Draw-Go.
It's true the game may end quickly in that your opponent scoops or it is functionally over, but the idea that you only go for the win when you have complete and total dominance over the game state means that mono blue is by definition the slowest deck in the format since no other deck does that.

[DavidHernandez]

Steve,

...beating mono blue - which seems to me, hands down, to be your worst matchup.

We haven't found this to be true at all. Morphling ends up a chump blocker, while the Phid's can almost be ignored.  TPS has been the worst matchup by far.

In any case, it still seems to me that Mono_U builds (of any kind) seem to lack the last bit of "umph" to get a tournament win. They get close but take 3rd - 8th.  In the last 45 days, I am aware of at least 2 smmenen Mono-U in the top 8 at Worlds (side event, 98 players), you having at least 1 or 2 top 8 finishes with smmenen-U, and Ultima with 3rd place and 5th Place using Team GRO MonoU-BBC.  

I'm sure Phil is putting the numbers together, and I'm anxious to see them.

Dave.

[Ultima]

I don't see you can say this given that a mono blue deck placed 3rd, a full round higher than you.  Moreover, how do you plan on beating mono blue - which seems to me, hands down, to be your worst matchup.  You have identically dead cards, but you have two two cards combos and it should not be difficult at ALL for mono blue to counter both Belchers with Phids active.

Actually in point to fact, the mono-u ophidian version is a very easy match.  The reason being the difference in draw engines.  The intuition/ak engine is much faster than the ophidians and after it resolves, usually a belcher would resolve thus ending the game.  Mono-u has no answers after a belcher is on the table because it doesn't play any wishes.

Its true that I lost while Ben went further.  I could only wish for the matchs that Ben got (damn combo matchs) and to be honest, I was really hoping to get matched up with him because I knew how favorable the match up is for me.

[Smmenen]

Now I know you are lying becuase mono blue isn't an easy matchup for any deck ever.  Easy matches are like when Long plays aggro.  Anything with as much disruption and countermagic as mono blue doesn't have easy matches.  Perhaps the only thing that has an easy matchup versus mono blue is something like 4 Gush GroAtog or, POSSIBLY, some variant of suicide black (and definately not with a good sb).  Matches against mono blue are long, tedious and annoying - rarely easy.  If you are winning that is one thing, but to assert the match is easy is facetious or a lie.

[DavidHernandez]

Now I know you are lying

Nice.

Thank Heaven for you.

[Ultima]

Now I know you are lying becuase mono blue isn't an easy matchup for any deck ever.  Easy matches are like when Long plays aggro.  Anything with as much disruption and countermagic as mono blue doesn't have easy matches.  Perhaps the only thing that has an easy matchup versus mono blue is something like 4 Gush GroAtog or, POSSIBLY, some variant of suicide black (and definately not with a good sb).  Matches against mono blue are long, tedious and annoying - rarely easy.  If you are winning that is one thing, but to assert the match is easy is facetious or a lie.

Facetious. LoL.  Easy there, Steve.  Don't take it so hard.  I'll elaborate further for you to better illustrate my choice of words.  I said easy because the testing showed mono-u phid to be such a favourable match, easy seemed an appropriate description.  The testing indicated that Mono-U phid was an extremely favourable match up because of the difference in draw engines.  Both phids and intuition are the same CC but intuition such a faster engine that phids couldn't keep up.  Its like the phid player would play a phid while the mono-u belcher player would play intuition for AKs and DAs.  The phid player is only drawing 1 extra card a turn while the belcher player is drawing 3-4 extra cards.  Then the belcher player simply resolves either a belcher or tinker and wins.  Its looks almost exactly the same on paper.  True, if the phid player resolves multiple phids between turns 1-3, then that's different.  But that happens very rarely outside of drawing a lotus and alot of moxes and phids in the opening hand.  And even then its difficult because the phid player drew that stuff instead of counters to keep them resolving.  If you don't believe me, just test the match-up.  Also refer to my and Jason Zheng's tourny reports.  He even had REB for me game 2 and it still didn't matter.  The AK engine just outraces ophidian by too much.

-John

[Smmenen]

And by "engine' you mean the lonely two Intuitions in your deck.  You assume far too much if you think you are gonig to be successful in
a) consistently drawing your two intuitions
b) getting them to resolve.  

Otherwise you have no draw engine.

[DavidHernandez]

Well, this thread was good while it lasted.  

By the way, since when is Brainstorm/AK/Intuition/Time Walk/Ancestral Recall/Tinker/Mystical Tutor/Merchant Scroll/Cunning Wish/Deep Analysis not a draw engine?

Congrats to teammate Ultima on another excellent showing.  Congrats to Teammate Grand Inquisitor who was undefeated going into the eliminations with GAT and finished 9th.

We hope some of you will try out the BBC list and see it's power for yourselves. So far, both of our decks (BBC and GAT) have been called crap (or non-optimal) yet manage to eat most everybodys lunch.

Winning a Mox at Waterbury certainly doesn't suck!

Dave.

[Ultima]

And by "engine' you mean the lonely two Intuitions in your deck.  You assume far too much if you think you are gonig to be successful in
a) consistently drawing your two intuitions
b) getting them to resolve.  

Otherwise you have no draw engine.

What can I tell you, the testing doesn't lie.  Like I said just test it yourself.

[ELD]

My mono U can beat up your mono U.  Honestly, I still don't understand the successs of Mono U right now, but I haven't been playing for the past couple months.  

I believe we may be in the midst of another interesting time in type 1 similar to the period when we tried to break Slaver.  Remember several months ago, there was a great debate over what the best way to abuse mindslaver was.  I even recall certain parties saying "not running workshop is a mistake"  Obviously that statement proved to be asinine, as control slaver is winning major tournaments, while workshop slaver has long been exposed to be a pile.  

Now we are looking at what is the best way to abuse Belcher.  Which is the stronger deck.  The blazing fast 2 land belcher, or this combo control Severance Belcher.  Perhaps both decks will continue to exist, as they are so functionally differant.    

BTW in my experiance, mono U doesn't like to play against Control Slaver.  At least in game one, welder is often a turn one "win"  If they board in BEB they are not as capable of stopping Thirst and lose from card disadvantage.

[Ultima]

BTW in my experiance, mono U doesn't like to play against Control Slaver.  At least in game one, welder is often a turn one "win"  If they board in BEB they are not as capable of stopping Thirst and lose from card disadvantage.

Traditionally, that's true.  However, thus far it the past two tournies, BBC has went undefeated against Control Slaver or Meandeck Titan mainly because of Hurkyl's Recall and Belcher itself.  Game 1 can be rough but game 2, you side in BEB to hold the welders until you resolve a belcher, then welders never stay on the table because you can just kill them with it.

[Smmenen]

I think, fundamentally, Control Slaver shouldn't be much of a problem for mono blue.  A resolved Goblin Welder isn't going to be a problem unless they can get an important artifact in the graveyard.  If you can counter every Thirst than that isn't a problem.  The only problem is if you let them get to 6 or 7 mana to hardcast Penatvus or Angel or Mindslaver.  But if you can't kill Welder with Keg by then, you deserve to lose that game becuase they have control.  I'm not saying it is a breeze, but assuming you can maintain control, a Welder isn't a problem.  The real problem is Tinker the fact that Control Slaver, like Tog and 4cc, can do broken things that you can't do anything about.  They can play cards like Tinker etc that you can't really address.  It's, imo, brokeness that mono blue loses to, not unlike Fish.

[DavidHernandez]

I was going to quote some of Smmenen's last post and say "Amen", but then I realized that the whole post was so good that I'd end up quoting the whole thing (which would simply be redundant).

In the Control Slaver and Titan matchups it becomes critical to hold on to your counters for the right spells. Having a good understanding of what the opponents real threats are will help win the match for you.

Dave.