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Author Topic: [Report] Winning Waterbury with Lava Dart  (Read 5493 times)
The Atog Lord
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« on: September 15, 2004, 04:27:25 pm »

Winning Waterbury with Lava Dart
Rich Shay
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I went from my home in Norwood, Massachusetts to Waterbury with Demonic Attorney and Mike Lydon, both of whom played Control Slaver lists very similar to my own. I slept most of the trip down, and Mike was kind enough to do the driving.

I won, defeating Carl Winter as the Sun was starting to rise. I finished 7-1 in the Swiss before cutting to top sixteen. 187 people showed up. As always, Ray ran a great event.

Before I get any further, here is the Control Slaver list I played:

//NAME: Control Slaver
// Creatures
        1 Platinum Angel
        1 Pentavus
        4 Goblin Welder
// Counter
        4 Mana Drain
        4 Force of Will
// Drawing
        4 Thirst for Knowledge
        4 Brainstorm
        1 Fact or Fiction
        1 Ancestral Recall
// Other
        2 Blood Moon
        1 Mystical Tutor
        1 Cunning Wish
        2 Mindslaver
        1 Tinker
        1 Time Walk
// Black
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
        1 Demonic Tutor
// Mana
        1 Mana Crypt
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Black Lotus
// Land
        1 Library of Alexandria
        2 Darksteel Citadel
        2 Underground Sea
        4 Polluted Delta
        4 Volcanic Island
        5 Island
// Sideboard
SB:  3 Lava Dart
SB:  1 Mogg Salvage
SB:  1 Shattering Pulse
SB:  1 Blood Moon
SB:  3 Red Elemental Blast
SB:  3 Old Man of the Sea
SB:  3 Sphere of Resistance

A few notes on the list. More than anything else, I wanted to include a healthy number of Basic Islands in Control Slaver for Waterbury. In matchups such as Fish, Keeper, and Mono Blue, having those Islands is crucial. This decision lead me to a few further design decisions. First, with more Islands, the deck could no longer support Duress as well. The lack of Duress combined with the addition of more Islands led me to include Blood Moon in the main deck. Finally, I decided that the Sundering Titan was not necessary to include in the deck, especially with Blood Moon.

So far, the Moon has been rather strong. Against Keeper and other such polychromatic control decks, the Moon really cripples their mana base. Against a deck such as Fish, Blood Moon goes a step further, shutting down a sizable number of creatures. And when you consider that Control Slaver really plays a lot of red cards for having only four lands that produce red mana, you can see that the Moons do little to hurt Control Slaver’s own mana base.

As for the sideboard. Old Man of the Sea is so good that I picked up a fourth copy there. Against aggressive decks, he blunts their offense, often letting you use their own creatures against them. Even against Ophidians, Old Man is a game-saving card.

And do I need to mention Lava Dart? I had sort of hoped this card wouldn’t become well-known, but I guess that isn’t going to happen. Dart kills Goblin Welder. Then it kills another Goblin Welder. Sometimes, Lava Dart even kills an opponent.

Now, on to the matches.

Round 1: Hale (Purple Hat) with Dragon

I get scared when Hale opens with Bazaar and Emerald, but was relieved when he discarded Animate Dead to his Bazaar. I play out a second turn Welder, and Force his Intuition. Hale then Demonic Tutors and again activated Bazaar, tossing a pair of Dragons into his yard. I go for Tinker, which Hale forces. I soon have out an additional pair of Welders, and my army of red creatures brings Hale down to six life. However, he soon draws into Necromancy with Force backup, and we’re on to game two. I had no artifacts in play for returning the Angel he dumped into my graveyard.

I open the second game with a Welder. Hale plays out a Null Rod, which surprises and scares me, and uses Force of Will to ensure that it resolves. A few turns later, Hale casts Necromancy, which I counter. He then casts Animate dead, which I allow to resolve (I have counter  magic in hand, but decided against countering it). Hale then decks me, but my Welder returns my Angel for me. The Angel then beats him to death.

The third game sees us both send back our hands. I get a Blood Moon on the table early, and the game ends with Yawgmoth’s Will.

1-0

Round 2: Ethan “Ivan the Terrible� with Mono Blue

 Ethan begins the first game with two mulligans. I Force his Ancestral, Ethan wastes my one colored source, and I Force his Snake.  I finally find a Volcanic to go with my Citadel and Mox Pearl, and cast Thirst in response to his using his fetchland. Soon, I resolve a Fact or Fiction, while Ethan is a bit stalled on land. Eventually, I force through a Tinker for a Pentavus.

The second game, Ethan starts things off with an Ancestral. He Forces my card drawing, Strips my land, plays Back to Basics, and deals with my Welder. Ethan forces through an Ophidian. I play an Old Man on my next turn, but Ethan Control Magics him and Time Walks, sealing the game.

The third game was interesting. Ric Flair was kind enough to tape this one. I play a Sapphire and an Island and pass the turn. Ethan drops a Lotus and a Library. We go to Ethan’s end step. I try to Ancestral. Ethan pops Lotus and Leaks my Ancestral. Then he casts his own. Then, Ethan untaps his cards, draws a card, and plays a land. I call Ray, since he did not in fact cast Time Walk. The penalty for drawing an extra card is usually a game loss, but I offer Ethan and Ray the idea of just playing the game over since it was just the second turn of the game, and I’d feel bad about winning a match through a game loss. Ethan and Ray agree, and we’re off to our fourth game.

I play out some Moxes and a fetchland. Ethan, of course, opens with Ancestral. For those of you counting along at home, that’s an Ancestral in each of his four opening hands. We draw/go for a while, and Ethan goes for an Ophidian. It resolves, but so does my Mindslaver next turn. Ethan has a turn to deal before I Slave him, but he finds no way to stop himself from becoming Slaved on his next turn. I Slave him, wreck his hand, and then go off with Yawgmoth’s Will.

2-0

Round 3: Matt Snow with Tinker Keeper (The Eastman Special)

Matt’s interesting deck is similar to Keeper without white, using the Tinker/Colossus combo as its kill mechanism. Things start off amazingly well for Matt in the first game. He Demonic Tutors for Ancestral, which resolves. He then counters my own Ancestral, and my Blood Moon. He uses Yawgmoth’s Will to refill his hand, makes me discard my own hand with Mind Twist, and kills off my Welders. According to my own notes, “I’m doomed.� However, the fact that his deck lacks in win conditions then catches up with him. While my board is decimated, Matt draws no way to kill me, and dies to his own Mana Crypt.

In the second game, Matt counters my early card drawing, but I REB through an early Mindslaver. I slave him, ruining his hand. I then resolve Goblin Welder and Blood Moon. The Moon is devastating.

3-0

Round 4: Madmaniac21 with Gro

I have a Sapphire but no land to play. He has a fetchland, a Jet, and a Lotus. I Mystical Tutor for my Ancestral, but in response to my Ancestral he Wishes for Misdirection. Before long a giant green lady has killed me.

He mulligans the second game, and Strips my first turn Island. After a few turns I resolve a Tinker and get a Mindslaver (Pentavus is in my hand). I then Yawgmoth’s Will, and need to decide between Slaving him that turn, or Tinkering for a Platinum Angel. I decided to recast Tinker, getting Angel. I pass the turn. I counter his Black Lotus, and then he resolves Ground Seal, and Naturalizes my Slaver.

My notes get a bit messy here, but in the end that green lady has killed me again.

3-1

Round 5: Dan with Control Slaver (similar to my Origins list)

I am fortunate enough to start this game with Library. He plays an Island, and I resolve a Welder. I basically ride Library to victory this game, eventually Slaving him.

Dan starts the second game by Duressing me, taking Brainstorm over either of my Thirsts, when the other cards in my hand were Ruby, Welder, Citadel, and Underground Sea. He then Lotuses into a Thirst. He Blue Blasts my Welder, and Tinkers into a Pentavus. I thirst to dig for an answer, and he Demonic Tutors. I get out a Welder, which gets rid of his Pentavus, but he pulls off two tokens in response. I go down to two life. I Will and stabilize at two, and will end the game next turn. But Dan draws Brainstorm which draws him into Cunning Wish, which transforms into Fire and kills me.

We both have early Tinkers this game, and I am forced to Tinker for my own Pentavus to match his. We both resolve Goblin Welder, too. Then, on his end step, I Fact or Fiction. The piles are Ancestral, REB, Mana Drain, and Mindslaver in one pile, with Lava Dart in the other. I take the good pile, Flashback the Dart killing his Welder, and win off the Fact or Fiction.

4-1

Round 6: Corey (Diaonic) with Workshop Slaver

I have an early Library this game, which is only moderately good against Workshop decks. He Forces my Welder, and I Force his Tinker. I draw some cards with Library and Corey resolves a Chalice set to one. I Tinker for Pentavus, which goes all the way.

The second game, we both play early Welders. He then plays Black Lotus, Workshop, and a Mox. This time his Tinker resolves, and he also Thirsts out an Angel. This one doesn’t take long.

I start with an Ancestral on his upkeep, and then I demonic Tutor. He tries to Thirst, but I Force it. I then resolve Welder. He plays Slaver, but I exchange it for a less potent artifact in his graveyard. I then slave him, and soon go infinite.

5-1

Round 7: Gary (Doomhed) with Blue Green Madness

I get a very strong draw in the first game, casting Thirst and Discarding Pentavus. Soon my Welder returns that creature to play, and Pentavus successfully races Gary’s deck.

The second game is entirely about Old Man of the Sea. I love it when my opponent has to read a card I play. Old man steals a Lizard, and then a Dog. I counter the creatures too big for Old Man to take, and Old Man does the rest.

6-1

Round 8: Joe with Keeper

I’m not exactly thrilled that, at 6-1, I have to play out my final match. But, I was paired down against someone who needed to win and couldn’t draw with me. Joe mulligans the first game, and I have a Library. On the third turn, Joe plays a ruby and a Scepter. I Drain his Scepter, and he Drains back. He imprints Mana Drain on the Scepter. On my turn I play a Mindslaver, which resolves. I Slave him on my next turn, and the game is pretty much over after that.

In the second game, I resolve Blood Moon, and all Joe can do is Morph out a creature. The morph brings me low on life, but eventually I push through a Yawgmoth’s Will for the game.

7-1

Top 16 (Every deck I played in the top sixteen was either a Meandeck deck, or some variation on a Meandeck deck)

Top 16: Gary (Doomhed) again

Gary mulligans the first game, and I resolve a second turn Tinker. I get Platinum Angel. Gary goes to take his second turn, and I ask if he has any way to deal with her, or if I’m just going to deck him. Gary scoops up his cards.

Gary doesn’t put up much pressure in the second game. My notes are sparse here (this is past Midnight I believe) but eventually Yawgmoth finishes him off for me.

Top 8: Ashok (The M.E.T.H.O.D.) playing Titan

I play a Volcanic and pass the turn. He plays a Volcanic, a Welder, a Mana Crypt, a Mox, and a Thirst. I Mystical for Ancestral. I Time Walk, then Wish. Ashok decides to let Wish resolve, and I grab Lava Dart. I Dart his Welder. He Forces. I Flashback the Dart and it hits. On his turn he Fact or Fictions, taking Welder over AK and three mana. Then I resolve Yawgmoth’s Will.

Ashok Mulligans game two. I play land and a Sol Ring. He REBs my Thirst. Then he counters my Fact or Fiction. Then Ashok resolves Blood Moon. He has no basic lands, and I have one Island. I get a Slaver on the table after some time spent in draw/go mode. I can cast my card drawing off my Island, but Ashok cannot. This is a long game, but eventually my Islands win it for me. I’m really glad I didn’t lose to Titan.

Top 4: Kowal with Chalice Blue

Kowal’s deck is similar to Smmenen’s mono blue deck, but features Chalice. In the first game, I resolve Goblin Welder early, which is very strong against Mono Blue should it hit. Ben has a Back to Basics, but soon I resolve a Thirst discarding Pentavus. That ends the game, since mono blue has a difficult time dealing with that card.

The second game came down to Old Man of the Sea. I mulligan, and Kowal has a Chalice at zero. I let that in. Then, I Force Kowal’s Chalice at one. I Ancestral, and we play draw/go for a few turns. Kowal goes for Ophidian. I Drain, he Forces, I REB, he BEBs, and the Snake his play. Then I untap and cast Old Man of the Sea. Kowal can’t answer the Old Man, and soon I’m drawing with his Ophidian.

Finals: Carl Winter with Death Long

This was a great match, and Mike Lydon, with help from Mixing Mike, did a good job covering it. I was too tired to take notes myself, but it ended when I Lava Darted Carl in the third game.

Although it went very late, this was a really fun day. It was great to see everyone and to hang out. I’m looking forward to the next one.

Props

Ray for organizing this whole thing

Mike Lydon and Demonic Attorney for going there with me

Everyone there for making this such a fun tournament

Lava Dart for winning me the whole thing
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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2004, 05:01:14 pm »

Congrats Rich, you played some fantastic magic that day.
CONTROL SLAVER STRIKES AGAIN!!!!!!!11111eleventy-one1

PS.
The Match coverage for the finals match can be found here
http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19585
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2004, 05:11:27 pm »

Congratulations on your continued success with the deck. This looks like a pretty metagamed variant (MD bloodmoons being the most noteworthy). Also a quick question, are the spheres in the side for the combo matchup only, or is there another reason for them? And a lot of people are having success maindecking colossus, have you looked into it?
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2004, 06:49:50 pm »

Quote from: Meddling Mage
!!!!!!!11111eleventy-one1


LOL

Eleventy-one?  Awesome.

Anyway, yea WTG Rich, Lava Dart 4L!!!
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2004, 07:02:16 pm »

Hey man.  Congrats.  I really like the changes you've done.  However, you were doomed in the finals if it wasn't for that Lava Dart.  I think the lack of Duress would decrease your chances against combo.

Damn, I just thought how good Blood Moon is against Dragon.  The only thing is how bad Blood Moon can be in the mirror.  If they're a good player, then they should be fetching out basics anyways unless they need the red for a Welder, or black for a Duress (assuming nobody made the same changes you did).

This build is great, and I can't argue otherwise with theory.  However, there's still no real way to really swing a mirror match.  Perhaps we should look at CoK for something useful...  I know Lava Dart is there, and I must say it's not to bad.  I only find it useful when there's a Welder standstill.  Sure removing their Welder is gold, but it's not the center of the matchup.  

I'm intrested in the Spehres.  You only saw one storm-based combo deck all day (the finals mind you, but still only one all day).  Arcane Labs are just as good againt combo, and by combo I mean all forms of it.  Did you opt for Spheres becasue of the Welder synergy, or was it for the 2CC over 3CC?


BTW:  I love the return of Cunning Wish.

P.S. You win didn't get me to fall in love with a real deck again, you win all the time with this thing.  It was the new card changes I can see on your decklist that got me hooked again.

[EDIT]:  Why did you cut BEB?  Was it in favor of Lava Darts?  Darts seem to do nothing to a Siege-Gang Commander...Sad
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2004, 08:59:44 pm »

Mike, to address your questions:

Dart is pretty good in the Mirror Match. Granted, that tech isn't so secret any more...

As for Moon doing nothing in the Mirror, you now have two maindeck answers to Library.

The problem with Arc Lab is this. You play Lab. At the end of your turn, Storm.dec can bounce your Lab, and you can't even counter it. Then, they have free reign to combo off on their next turn. With Sphere, you can still utilize your control spells, while disrupting them. Further, it only costs two, and it is weldable.

Dart is a better BEB, except against FCG and Dragon. You already have the Moon against Dragon, which, unlike BEB, isn't stopped by Swarm. And as for FCG? I just took my chances. You can't win 'em all...
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« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2004, 02:26:15 am »

greetings and congrats on the win.

i play a similar build (-2 blood moon, +2 fire ice), and i just dont see how a person can win tourneys with this deck. it's no shot at the creator just a simple observation. i get absolutely owned by any variation of stacks, tnt, 7/10, affinity; basically any deck with workshops. they seem to be to damn fast and redundant for me to ever have a solid match-up.

could it be the region in which i play? (west coast, san fran)
do i just not "get" the deck?
if someone would shed some light on this most distressing of matters i could then move on.

thanks

(i know it is horrible to ask a seemingly unrelated question on someone else's post, but it just immediatly came to mind so here it is, sorry)
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« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2004, 09:12:18 am »

Rich:
Did you miss Memory Jar at any point in your matches?

Congrats!

Dave.
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« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2004, 09:21:01 am »

As far as I know, Memory Jar hasn't been included in most Control Slaver builds in quite some time.
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« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2004, 09:48:37 am »

Quote from: Yossarian
greetings and congrats on the win.

i play a similar build (-2 blood moon, +2 fire ice), and i just dont see how a person can win tourneys with this deck. it's no shot at the creator just a simple observation. i get absolutely owned by any variation of stacks, tnt, 7/10, affinity; basically any deck with workshops. they seem to be to damn fast and redundant for me to ever have a solid match-up.

could it be the region in which i play? (west coast, san fran)
do i just not "get" the deck?
if someone would shed some light on this most distressing of matters i could then move on.

thanks

(i know it is horrible to ask a seemingly unrelated question on someone else's post, but it just immediatly came to mind so here it is, sorry)


The Workshop match-up is indeed difficult, but you have to exploit the weaknesses of the very erratic Workshop decks. First, they won't get the broken draw every game. If they just get a blah opening, or mulligan down to 5 cards or so, barring a Draw-7, they won't be able to have any explosive opening at all. Since they can only rely on that, and large threats, you just have to worry about those large threats.

Control slaver has quite a bit of control for that, and has large threats of it's own.

If they do not go first, their board position is a lot less strong than it would otherwise be. Allowing you to drop your moxen first will enable you to get to 3 mana on your second turn, despite the possibility of them having a first-turn Trinisphere. Mana Draining one of their large threats will allow you to go into a very favorable position.

My problem with Rich's build is that it has absolutely no way to attack the mana base. No Strip effects, and no Shaman, and only limited destruction. This is indeed dangerous, as a deck like Titan will probably manage to punch through, and even the Mindslaver can do little to stop it (baring a lock, it's going to be tough). But, as Rich said, cannot win them all.

As far as the match-up vs. Workshop Slaver, I think Control Slaver has a bit of an advantage, due to the fact that it's a lot more consistent, and a more stable and safer mana-base.

It all boils down to that, I think.
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« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2004, 09:52:01 am »

@Zherbus:
I know it hasn't been played in a while, but I'm curious if the people playing Slaver are wishing it were in the deck. It seems to me that Jar has incredible synergy in Slaver, not just because of Welder/Tinker, but because in many cases it acts as a Mind Twist. This fits perfectly with the Control aspect of the deck. TMD User Meddling Mage stated in a thread that Memory Jar is not as good as it used to be, but noone says "why" nor do they mention what took it's place.

If you (or anyone else) are aware of a thread that discusses the pros/cons of Jar in Slaver, please point it out. I can't find it in the search function.

Thanks!
Dave.
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« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2004, 10:19:47 am »

I really only said that because you asked if it was 'missed' which would imply that he had it previous to this tournament. I don't think it's a bad idea to discuss it at all, I just had the same knee-jerk reaction to this as I did to 'how is Balance working for you' on an old 4cControl thread of mine. While Memory Jar may or may not belong, the way the question was asked through me off.
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« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2004, 10:27:54 am »

Yossarian,

Your build of the deck seems perfetly fine. I’ve maindecked Fire myself, and considered it again for this event. The New England metagame is very light on Workshop decks; I played only a single one out of twelve rounds. However, if you “dont see how a person can win tourneys with this deck,� perhaps there is more to the problem than just your metagame. Control Slaver is not an easy deck to play, and if you play it as though it were, say, Tog, you will have poor results.


David,

I’m afraid that Jar is no longer a great option for the maindeck. Against the Mirror, and any other matchup involving Goblin Welder, Jar can serve to fill the opponent’s graveyard with recurrable artifacts. Welder decks have become more and more popular here, and the mirror match is becoming more and more common. Also, Jar is another dead card against Null Rod. I ran Jar in earlier builds of the deck, but I don’t think it is needed in the current metagame.
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« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2004, 10:28:16 am »

Ok, I see that. "Missed" was the wrong word to use because of it's implications.

Also, for those of you wondering, I'm not trying to get the thread off on a Memory Jar tangent. I just want to know if Rich thought to himself (during play) "man, Memory Jar would have been the bomb right now, but all I have is <_insert_card_>".

EDIT: Argh. Rich posted simultaneously. Ok, thanks for the info.

Dave.
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« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2004, 10:41:18 am »

Well fist I would like to say congratulations. Secondly, I <3 Bloodmoon. I have ALWAYS played it in my Drain Slaver board and I have never lost a game after dropping it.

I am curious about only one thing since I know you have done a lot of playtesting with the deck: only 1 cunning wish??? do you use demonic and mystical to fetch it up if you really need a sideboard answer?
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« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2004, 11:16:15 am »

You don't really need that many sideboard answers, since your other maindeck cards (namely Mindslaver, Angel, and Pentavus) can handle a very large array of threats.
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« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2004, 02:34:21 pm »

I used to be a strong proponent of memory jar back in the day, and when the deck was still young it was still an excellent option. Unfortunately it really is no longer the house it once was for exactly the reasons that Rich cited. With the metagame the way it's been I've almost always wanted to tinker for something other than the jar, that's usually the measuring stick by which I judge how effective one of the larger artifacts in the deck is.

I'm a bit surprised that Yossarian thinks that workshop based decks are such a bad matchup. I would think the match would come down to who's got the most welders and can keep them on the table, running two MD fire/Ice should give you the edge in that category I would think. Also, you've got mana drain, which is just HUGE in this matchup, they tap all their workshops to cast a fat and juicy artifact and you drain it then go to you're turn and have a field day, either cast something fat of your own assured that it will resolve or cast like two TFK's and such and just beat him down with your card advantage for the rest of the game.
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« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2004, 03:20:16 pm »

I just want to say great job! It's great to see Lava Dart performing so well. I'm a strong advocate of it myself. I'm sure more will follow now. I think it is superior to Fire/Ice in many ways except pitchability to FoW.
Rock on!
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MadManiac21
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« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2004, 04:42:49 pm »

Hey Rich, conrats on going undefeated after our match!

I am Caleb Rozwenc of Team Hadley, and I was playing our GAT list that Steve houdlette (G.I.) went 8-0 with in the swiss.

As to helping out with the notes on our match; You won that game two after I willed. There ended up being a dispute over whether or not I had dropped a land that turn, and we ended up getting a ten minute time extention. In game three I played a turn two fastbond. Turn three I played a strip mine and tapped my three lands to play crucible. On the following turn I went down to 8 life to strip your entire mana base, and search out 4 land, using them to cast the lone Pdeed in my deck and pop for one, killing my fast bond, but also destroying your welder, sapphire, and sol ring in the process. You were left permanentless after this play, and I ended up dropping a dryad. I eventually swung for the win on turn 4 of the five extra turns AFTER our ten minute extension.

I must say it was a pleasure playing you; you were one of the more respecable and funny opponents of the day. I just feel bad that I ended up going 5-2-1; I would have much rather lost that round and gone on to win!
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The Atog Lord
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« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2004, 06:05:19 pm »

Caleb,

Thanks for filling in where my notes were missing. You demolished me in the third game. Well done, that was an intense match.
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The Academy: If I'm not dead, I have a Dragonlord Dromoka coming in 4 turns
Gabethebabe
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« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2004, 01:33:23 am »

Quote from: The Atog Lord
Old man steals a Lizard, and then a Dog. I counter the creatures too big for Old Man to take, and Old Man does the rest.


I´ve got no problem upping this awesome report with the question: your opponent didn´t have cards to ditch to the dawg?
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The Atog Lord
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« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2004, 01:53:44 am »

Gary did have cards to keep feeding the Dog with, for a while. The problem is that eventually a second Old Man hit, and Gary couldn't keep up.

Besides, forcing the opponent to discard a card every turn isn't too bad on its own.
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The Academy: If I'm not dead, I have a Dragonlord Dromoka coming in 4 turns
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