[Singlecard-discussion] Forbidden Orchard

[Covetous]

I'd like to think that the welder issue is dead.  Running 3 STP, plus maybe powder kegs or engineered explosives as well (I think they're both good here) and 2-3 cunning wishes (for STP) should deal with welders quite nicely.  I wouldn't fear the welder personally from the standpoint of slowing down my deck.  

I still can't decide if combo or control is a better route for this deck.  While it seems good to do some early Oath-->Colossus nastiness and swing with haste and/or berserk for the win, I don't think I'll be convinced that this is better than a control game plan until I see some results.  A lot of the cards in this deck are control cards, so why fight against making the deck control?  Control is strong in general, and I don't see why diluting the control cards in order to speed up the kill (i.e. using Dragon Breath) is a benefit for the deck.  Sure this is type 1 and people can go broken, but that's why you run countermagic.  If you want to speed up the deck, run full jewelry.  If you want to combo out quickly, why are you playing this deck and not TPS/DeathLong/MaskNaught?  If I was playing this deck, I would probably stick with the old game plan (Fling + Spikes), plus maybe a single Colossus because he does in fact beat face really hard.  I would run Crater Hellion, (Razormane) Masticore or Trike in the SB just in case I don't own aggro bad enough already or need to remove even more things.  

I guess I just view this deck differently than some other people and I'm not saying my way for looking at the deck is better.  I just feel that Oath is a powerful way to get answers AND win conditions, and you want to Oath often in a given game as opposed to Oathing once for Colossus.  To this end, I prefer to run creatures than can disappear if I need them to (i.e. Fling/Spikes) so that I can Oath up a new answer and take full advantage of my Gaea's Blessings.  Maybe new Oath with Orchard will be different than old Oath, but I don't think it will play too much differently--Orchard is just a new way (as opposed to say Funeral Pyre) to cause your opponent to have creatures so that you can Oath.  As a combo, Oath + Orchard is pretty weak because it doesn't kill NOW without other cards that do nothing by themselves (berserk, dragon breath).  You can only Oath at the beginning of your upkeep so you need to give your opponent a full turn by definition.

[Brutha]

How about a single Battlefield Scrounger?
If you have Oathed two times you put Anything - Ancestral Recall Time  Walk on top of your library.
You walk and can put replay Time Walk and playing your whole deck.
Or you can go Yawamoth Will up a combo. (Then you could use Krosan Reclamation in the case your Scrounger get sworded to combo kill too Crucible/Fastbone/Orb)

Two Yosei, the Morning Star would be also possible if you want to play blessing.

[Danzig]

I stopped reading after page 3 so forgive me if I missed this but doesn't anyone run Fire/Ice anymore? Who is worried about Goblin Welder switching Darksteel Colossus?

[h9565]

Have any of you considered Drop of Honey in U/G Colossus Orchard/Oath?

Drop of Honey

Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, destroy target creature with the least power. It can't be regenerated. (If two or more creatures are tied for least power, target any one of them.)
When there are no creatures in play, sacrifice Drop of Honey.

It seems to have the following advantages:

(1) Hoses Goblin Welder, Platinum Angel, and other problematic creatures.
(2) Buys time until you can find Oath.
(3) Good synergy with Orchard:

(a) Cleans up extra Spirit tokens.
(b) Orchard can keep the Drop around abitrarily long (barring wasteland).
[/list:u](4) Plays nicely with indestructibility and large power of Colossus.
[/list:u]
I haven't had a chance to test these idea, but I expect Stax and Storm combo to be rough matchups.  It's not clear how Drop of Honey helps in those matchups.

[effang]

good find, but is it really better/more useful than just packing some heat? fire/ice is still one of the most versatile removal/cantrip of all time. kills welder with easy, taps to keep a pentavite from blocking, and best of all FOW fodder.

[Timewalker]

Drop of honey seems interesting for Oathchard but isn't it devoting too much for too specific needs? Fire/Ice and/or STP are more flexible solutions to the welder issue.  Battlefield Scrounger will only serve to slowing down the "killing process". Why not attempt to achieve earlier kills than try to use a "CONTROL" creature.  Since we're discussing Oathchard, what are possible ways to deal with the deck itself? What are its inherent weaknesses? What will be the reactionary type of hate vs. this decktype? (Whether control or combo-control variant)

[Thug]

The Whole point of Oath to me is nothing having to care about any creatures, hence not having to care about having spot removal. Welder is annoying so don't bother playing with just colossusses, but with two different creatures of which one is more decent versus Welder.

[rakso]

The Whole point of Oath to me is nothing having to care about any creatures, hence not having to care about having spot removal.

I disagreed when I wrote about KrOathan in an old column. That's true for aggro, but might not necessarily be so for aggro-control.

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=3760