[Budget] Reviving Budget Oath

[Falc]

Once the CoK spoiler came out it didn't take long for Forbidden Orchard to create a new buzz about Oath.  I definitely think it's worth exploring and just might be enough to push Oath near the top of the budget metagame.  But first, since most of us haven't worked with Oath in a while we now have to re-examine some of the basic choices of how Oath should be built in today's budget environment.

The Colors

The first decision you have to make is what colors to run.  The two classic and best choices are BUG and WUG.  White gives you access to Swords for problem creatures like Welder, Balace, and Enlightened Tutor.  On the other hand, Black sets you up with Duress, Mind Twist, Yawgmoth's Win, and Demonic and Vampiric Tutors.  Personally, I'm a big fan of Duress in Oath.  When your entire strategy is based on a two-mana enchantment, I think it's important to make sure the coast is clear before you try to play it.  Along with the superior tutors and brokenness of Yawgmoth's Will, I lean towards Black, but White is a valid choice if Welder decks are common in your area.

The Creatures

Traditional Oath uses a creature suite of Morphling, Spike Feeder, and Spike Weaver.  This set of creatures proved superior because they are all hard-castable and cannot be removed by StP and leave you with no win conditions.  Today, however, we now have to consider Darksteel Colossus as an option.  Being an 11/11 trampler, it's a much much faster clock than Morphling and it's indestructible.  It's reshuffle effect is also a benefit in Oath since it won't end up in the grave due to discard or sacrifice effects.  Unfortunately, it's also vulnerable to StP.  I think it comes down to a risk/reward decision.  If there isn't a lot of white in your metagame, or you're willing to chance losing game one to a white deck, I think two Colossus is the most powerful and direct approach.  Most of the time I would certainly rather Oath up a Colossus and take my chances than Oath up a Spike and spend mana to remove it's counters just so I can try to Oath up something good.

The Old Standby

If you choose to rely on Colossus as your kill condition, it brings into question one of the most fundamental cards of the Oath archtype, Gaea's Blessing.  Blessing was a staple because it allowed you to infinitely recur your small set of creatures and also prevented you from decking yourself with Oath.  But with the Colossus's reshuffle effect, it's has a sort of built-in Gaea's Blessing.  It automatically recurs itself and prevents you from being decked by Oath.  In the old days of playing Oath, the one card you did not want to draw was Gaea's Blessing.  It costs you main phase mana and does almost nothing.  I think cutting it is the right choice if you go with Colossus.  As a side effect, you will be dumping a lot more cards in your yard with Oath making Regrowth and Yawgmoth's Will that much more broken.

The New Toy

The new toy is, of course, Forbidden Orchard.  It helps sure up Oath's toughest matchup, a control deck with very few or no creatures.  It provides you with a free uncounterable way to force a creature upon your opponent.  It also sets up the new "God Hand" of Orchard, Mox, Oath with FoW backup.  The only question is, how many copies of this gem need to be in the deck?  In an unpowered decklist, you're going to have to rely on Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, and Lotus Petal for that "God Hand" so it's not going to be as common as with a fully powered deck.  My initial feeling is that three copies is the proper number for an unpowered list while four is probably best for a powered list to maximize your "God Hand" potential.

The Decklist

So what exactly am I advocating here?  Here's my newest build:

Falc's Unpowered BUG Oath
// Win
    4  - Oath of Druids
    2  - Darksteel Colossus
// Counter
    4  - Force of Will
    4  - Mana Drain
    2  - Misdirection
// Disruption
    4  - Duress
// Draw & Search
    4  - Brainstorm
    2  - Cunning Wish
    2  - Sylvan Library
    1  - Yawgmoth's Will
    1 [RV] - Regrowth
    1  - Fact or Fiction
    1 [RV] - Demonic Tutor
    1  - Mystical Tutor
// Mana
    1  - Crucible of Worlds
    1  - Mox Diamond
    1  - Chrome Mox
    1 [TP] - Lotus Petal
    1  - Library of Alexandria
    1  - Strip Mine
    4 [TP] - Wasteland
    3 [CK] - Forbidden Orchard
    4 [RV] - Tropical Island
    4 [RV] - Underground Sea
    4  - Polluted Delta
    2  - Flooded Strand
//
SB: 3 [TP] - Propaganda
SB: 3  - Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 2  - Morphling
SB: 1  - Woodripper
SB: 1  - Crucible of Worlds
SB: 1 [RV] - Mind Twist
SB: 1  - Naturalize
SB: 1  - Moment's Peace
SB: 1  - Coffin Purge
SB: 1  - Vampiric Tutor

Now perhaps this listing could use a tweak or two, but I think this is a good starting place.  I'd really love to hear some intelligent opinions on the bold items above.  Thanks for reading.

- Falc

[WildWillieWonderboy]

You definately need something besides darksteel colossus. He gets welded out. In fact, speaking of the best creature, you might want to play him. Then you can get back the stuff that went to your bin because of oath and maybe savagely recur wastelands with the quickness. Alternatively you could go truly nuts with white bringer.

[Nameless]

You definately need something besides darksteel colossus. He gets welded out. In fact, speaking of the best creature, you might want to play him. Then you can get back the stuff that went to your bin because of oath and maybe savagely recur wastelands with the quickness. Alternatively you could go truly nuts with white bringer.

Actually, his Artifacts aren't good enough to even be in the deck...  He could just not use them at all, and his DSC wouldn't have to fear Welders at all.  Only Crucible is of any real value here, and he can ignore that and just go for the throat, considering that the deck is now self-supporting with a land passing out Spirit tokens.

In other words, loose the crappy artifacts you have and give up on the 1st-turn Oath in favor of being able to sweep Workshop decks by just resolving DSC.  This shouldn't be a problem since they can't beat you without creatures and a 1 or 2 11/11's is a pretty strong offensive, especially backed up with counterspells.  It's not as Indestructible as the Colossus himself, but pretty close.

[Pex]

Maybe something like Mishra's Factory.

I agree with Blessing, it's not that good... Crucible  :roll:

[Falc]

Nameless: Losing all the artifacts to protect against Welder is a viable strategy, but do you think it's worth losing not only first turn Oath but also first turn Mana Drain in other matchups?  For Welder to be effective, you have to have Colossus in play and another artifact in your yard.  If he welds, then the artifact in the yard comes into play and you Oath up the Colossus again next turn.  Since I only have four other artifacts in the deck a Welder will only be able to buy my opponent a turn or two at most.  If Welder is very popular in your area, then I could understand replacing the artifact mana if it proves to be a problem.  But if you don't face many Welder decks, I think the artifact mana is too valuable in other matchups to give up.

Pex: Mishra's have great synergy with Oath, but you run into a very shaky mana situation with them.  The deck is three colors and it's already running four Wasteland.  In my opinion, adding in another four colorless lands will stretch the mana base past the breaking point.  Besides, with Orchard in the deck you no longer need man-lands to "force" your opponent to play a creature.

- Falc

[Danzig]

You actually need better draw than Sylvan Library.

Why not Thirst for Knowledge and Brainstorm? I love shuffling
a Colossus with Thirst. Brainstorm also keeps him out of your
hand. Both are pitchable to Force of Will.

Want to get rid of Welder? You're running Cunning Wish so use
Fire/Ice or Blue Elemental Blast.

[WildWillieWonderboy]

I really don't think early DC should be the gameplan of this deck. After this "combo" resolves, it still takes you three turns to win, and the backlash on this is about due, given that viable answers do exist.

[oyzar]

You could make this faster by including bragon breath and berserk, either reduce by 1 turn and both reduce by 2 turns... Of course then you would have a much more aggro verson.

[Falc]

Danzig: Thirst for Knowledge is a good idea.  I'll give it a try.  It's very nice that it can get DC out of your hand.  Although Sylvan prevents you from drawing DC in the first place.  I can't say for sure which one is better, but I'll try TfK out and see how it goes.

WildWillieWonderboy & oyzar: This isn't a combo deck.  It's a one card combo.  Play Oath and win.  Including stuff like Dragon Breath and Berzerk to speed it up is completely overkill and tries to make the deck too "comboish".  The way this deck works is that you play control until you get to activate Oath, then you play more control until you win.  It doesn't matter if the clock is one turn, two turns, or five turns.  Mucking up the decklist with situational garbage is a terrible idea.  You're going to win 9 out of 10 games that you get to activate Oath regardless.  Giving the DC haste or doubling his power isn't going to change that.  Either your opponent has the answer or he doesn't, or you counter it and win anyway.

- Falc

[WildWillieWonderboy]

The gameplan you are describing is known as combo control and no, it's not a one-card combo when many decks don't need a creature to beat you. Sit around trying to counter all the threats $T4X throws down with your scant 8 spell alotment and I can guarantee you will get served. The fact of the matter is that in order to win in this environment, you must either use oath as a supplementary card to punish there use of creatures or use it in harmony with orchard to drop winning creatures. Better yet, do both: use creatures that you can cast, but are still sufficiently good to take advantage of oath. This way you can put the hurt on aggro by dropping a creature for every creature they drop while still having something of a clock against decks that aren't creature-centered.

[Nameless]

Nameless: Losing all the artifacts to protect against Welder is a viable strategy, but do you think it's worth losing not only first turn Oath but also first turn Mana Drain in other matchups?  For Welder to be effective, you have to have Colossus in play and another artifact in your yard.  If he welds, then the artifact in the yard comes into play and you Oath up the Colossus again next turn.  Since I only have four other artifacts in the deck a Welder will only be able to buy my opponent a turn or two at most.  If Welder is very popular in your area, then I could understand replacing the artifact mana if it proves to be a problem.  But if you don't face many Welder decks, I think the artifact mana is too valuable in other matchups to give up.

Pex: Mishra's have great synergy with Oath, but you run into a very shaky mana situation with them.  The deck is three colors and it's already running four Wasteland.  In my opinion, adding in another four colorless lands will stretch the mana base past the breaking point.  Besides, with Orchard in the deck you no longer need man-lands to "force" your opponent to play a creature.

- Falc

Actually, we are talking about a budget deck here abusing the new land that taps for any colored mana...  So, to me, this means you're already hurting because you lack various levels of other true power cards.  This being the case...  Screw everything and go for the glory.  BTW you should be using 4 Orchards.  You've got Duress', counterspells, and a little search, but they are right so far in that you do need a bit more drawing...

I say drop one of the Sylvan Libraries and Yawgmoth's Will and go for 2x Gaea's Blessing.  It works pretty good with Sylvan itself, and 2 Sylan's are pretty much redundant now.  I'd even main deck Vampiric, loose the Cunning Wishes, and add perhaps a 3rd Misdirection.  So that you're all about the Orchard/Oath combo and protecting it.  You can't really do anything broken with Will anyway considering your deck structure and apparent card pool.  Don't mess around with silly little stuff and just go for the win as best you can.

After the above changes, fix the mana base to accomidate some Islands over that Artifact mana, and this should help you against things like Back to Basics and Blood Moon as a little bonus for not having power to use.

The Sideboard then can be readjusted to make better use of those slots with multiples of cards like Naturalize, Coffin Purge, creature control in general, and other good Oath creatures.

You're just trying to do too many things at once here...  Take advantage of the fact that you don't have power cards by using those slots to both make your deck more consistent and at the same time improve it's resilency to non-basic hate.  Redundancy is the key to using this combo effectively, and you need to be doing that.

Your game plan needs to be a 1st-turn Duress, followed by an Orchard/Oath on the 2nd turn with Misdirection/FoW backup.  Then lay out a DSC on turn 3 and leave your mana open to protect him while you ride the monster to a win in 2 more turns.  It's a turn 5 kill, but it's pretty hardd to stop with all the control measures you can establish.

A fantastic card for this deck might also be the previously mentioned Thirst, since you really don't need Artifacts to feed it.  Throwing away the excess land you have works just fine.  You aren't trying to establish a huge mana base here, you're trying to win quick.  And they don't even need to play creatures for you to do this, so it's a nice plus.  As a cute perk too a DSC that ends up in your hand can roll back into the deck with Thirst, so that would esentially be 8 ways to make sure he's in the deck for Oath and not in your hand.  If you wanted to try this then stick to the above plan, but loose all 3 Misdirections and 1 Duress for 4x Thirst.

Generally speaking the Thirst gives you the added draw you needed while making sure DSC is never something you have to cast.  This has a downside though, in that by loosing a Duress and the Misdirections you weaken your game plan slightly in so far as ways to protect everything.  On the other hand, the Misdirections are still excellent Sideboard cards.

People are going to look at what you're doing and try to compair them to powered versions, but this just isn't going to be an option for you, so you need to try and find advantage in this and use it.

Or you can ignore everything I said and do as you wish...  Up to you.  

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

I can't speak for very long, so I'll make this short......I've been testing out a version of oath, but only U/G.....IMO, black and white is unnecessry in this deck. You run 12 counters (FoW, Drain, and Leak, because leak is amazing with full power), and your draw is 4 AK and possibly deeps. I think 1 Blessing is Okay to have. Oath is much more broken when you drop AKs and deeps in the yard. Basically I went with the approach of going more control than combo. It plays like Mono-blue, only with better Draw and better win condition. With 2 colors, you can also easily play back to basics in the board, something that is HUGE in this environment. If anyone is interested in a list, just ask, as I don't want to clog up this thread.

-Bob

[wizmentor]

Another possibility is to just play pre-sideboarded landstill
with the new land, and sideboard "back" into landstill,
if that's a better matchup.

[Falc]

C'mon people... Why can't you understand that this is a BUDGET deck for a BUDGET environment?  You're right that it'll never beat Stax.  Why?  Because it'll never play against Stax because Stax doesn't exist in a budget environment!  And no, I'm not hurting because I don't have access to power because no one else does either, so I don't need to compensate in any way for not having power.  That's the beauty of a budget environment that for some reason people just can't grasp.  Budget players have been screaming this for years but it just doesn't seem to sink in.  You don't need power if no one else has it either.  I put the word Budget in the title twice and in the post about five times.  I figured that would get the point accross, but apparently not.  Maybe now you'll get it.

That said, I couldn't disagree more with the latest suggestions.  The deck is not "all about" the orchard/oath combo.  That's the worst thing you could do to this deck is think it's a combo deck.  Oath beats aggro.  Plain and simple.  Your opponent drops a man, you drop Oath, you beat face.  That's all there is to it.  Aggro is an auto-win.  That's what makes Oath such a great choice in a budget metagame because 80% of the field is aggro.  The only time you run into trouble is when you're matched against a combo or control deck that runs few or no creatures.  That's where Orchard comes in.  Instead of having to Wish for something like Funeral Pyre or board in Verdant Touch, the deck now has a convenient maindeckable way to turn it's worst matchup around.  If you're still having trouble understanding the effectiveness of "Play Oath and Win" then you really need to shuffle up an Oath deck before proceeding.

I do like the suggestion of Thirst for Knowledge.  That was a card I hadn't considered but I will definitely test.  Thanks for pointing that one out.

Nameless:  You mentioned taking out a Sylvan and Will for Blessing.  Why take out two extremely powerful effects for Blessing?  Don't you think that Colossus's built-in reshuffle will be enough to keep you supplied with men?

Certainly Duress followed by Orchard/Oath is one of the best starts possible, but it's not going to happen all that often.  In most games you simply play Draw-Go and counter anything you can't handle until your opponent either plays a creature or you draw an Orchard.  Then you drop Oath and win.  It's not about "winning on turn X".  It's about inevitability.  It's about putting your opponent in a no-win situation.  Either they drop a creature and lose or they don't drop a creature and still lose.

Where's Queequeg when you need him?

- Falc

[Tristal]

Consider tweaking your land base a lot - 6 fetchlands is way unnecessary, even with two Sylvan Libraries (one of which, yes, you should cut).  Basic Island can be pretty good in a lot of situations.

Mishra's Factory is also a must have.  It sounds weird, but having opposing Wastelands always go after this thing is amazing for you as it lets you keep UU open.

I don't see the point of having both Mox Diamond and Chrome Mox.  In fact, I probably wouldn't run either.  If you are gonna go this route, you HAVE to run Tinker. :)

Either:
-1 Sylvan, Will, Mystical (What does this get, Demonic?  Terrible.), Library of Alexandria (you NEVER have seven cards.)
+Tinker, Vampiric, 2 Island

or:
-1 Sylvan, Will, Mystical, Library, Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond
+Vampiric, 4 Mishra's Factory, Mana Leak

In either case I'd take out two Fetchlands for basic Islands, or Cities of Brass.

[Nameless]

Well, Falc, I was fully aware of this being BUDGET when I made my post.  That being said, Will does shit for you, chief.  What are you casting with a Will?  An Oath?  A Brainstorm?  Will is broken with POWER, you cast a ton of free mana with the Moxxen you lost, another Time Walk, 3 more cards from Ancestral, and a host of other goodies that your deck just can't do.  Don't get wrapped around Will when Blessing will at least allow for more recursion.

And yes, wether or not you want to accept it, this deck is all about Oath.  The Orchards inherently make themselves more valuable because of this, since they let you do your thing oblivious to thier own creatures (or lack thereof).

If you didn't get any of this then you need to reread my post above, because I couldn't have been any clearer in my suggestions to improve both performance and consitency, and I won't bother repeating myself when it's in text a few lines up there.

This is what I suggest though...  Don't post any more decklists.  Seriously.  Close your TMD account and go elsewhere.  Why?  This is the way it works...  You post a decklist asking for help.  People post help.  You try it out.  If you aren't going to make any changes then there's no point in posting the fucking decklist, now is there?  Do you expect somebody to say, "HEY!  Perfect fucking build, Brainiac!  I'll play that card-for-card!"  Nope, not gonna happen, ever.

So, to sum it up...  Reread UP a few posts, and either change the deck or forget the whole thing.  Again, that's the fucking point of doing this in the first place.

Now...  *ahem*  If you are going to change the deck then shut up, make some changes, test them, then report back on exactly what you tried and how it worked.  Then what we have is a working system around here, not just endless blah blah blah about nothing with a random decklist thrown in.

[Falc]

Okay, I will conceed that Yawg's Will is not the greatest thing in this deck.  The suggestion of TfK for Sylvan and Will is a good one and is the only thing worth reading.  The rest of the suggestions that have been posted are ludacris.  Cut the only mana accel in a deck that wants to cast two mana spells on turn one?  Cut Library in a control deck?  Have eight colorless lands in a 3-color deck?  What's next, Dragon Tyrant?

I hate that this thread has degenerated into a pissing match.  Let's try to get it back on track starting right now.

I didn't post asking for help with my decklist.  You won't find the word "help" anywhere on the page.  The only reason I even put the decklist in there was just show an example of a new Oath deck.  I posted to generate discussion about an older archtype that has a chance to make a comeback due to a new addition.  Instead of making ridiculous suggestions about the decklist, I was hoping people could discuss the following points which I bolded and underlined in the post:

1.) Is BUG superior to WUG, or even just UG?  Why?

2.) Is Colossus x2 superior to Morphling/Weaver/Feeder, and why do you feel that way?

3.) If you choose Colossus, does the deck still need Gaea's Blessing?  Support your answer.

4.) Does the addition of Forbidden Orchard push the Oath archtype to new heights or is it not much better than it was before?

That's it.

- Falc

[Nameless]

The only reason I even put the decklist in there was just show an example of a new Oath deck.

No, you posted to show an example of a BUDGET Oath deck, and not a very good one either.  Thus the commentary.

Now, on to bigger and better things...

The colors you are going to use depend completely on what power you have available.

Hell, you don't even need a creature at all.  The KroOathian Sideboard won many a tournament in it's day vs. Aggro, and with the new land you don't even need them to have a creature anymore.  There's no reason it won't work now if that's what people want, and it didn't even use an Attack Phase.  Hell, it won the very turn Oath activated, with a Stroke of Genius at the head for about 30 million cards.  But, it takes a fully powered deck to do it.  I suppose you 'could' do it on a budget build, but without the Moxxen/Lotus it's rather pointless as it would be ages and ages slower.

[bebe]

The problem with KrOathan is the same as that with just Colossus - you have all your eggs in one basket. As well Kroathan really does not do well as a budget version.
I have been recommending OathStill as an altenative because it has an additional mechanism for the kill - albeit not the quickest or strongest but often effective enough. It does need work though by someopne with Shiock Wave's experience with the arch type. . .

BTW, if you want to stimulate discussion then expect criticism. That ois part of the process. No one wants to start a flame war here but an intelligent dismantling of your deck was in order.

[Tristal]

Last time I checked you had a grand total of one card drawing spell in the entire deck.  How do you expect to have Library stay online?  One Duress destroys the entire game plan.

I always preferred GWU Oath when I played it.  It could just be my style, though.  It sounds counterintuitive, but Swords really is good in this deck.  I never thought black was worth running alongside white.

Feeder hasn't been good in T1 Oath since the days when you could expect 30% of a field to be red burn.  Even then, some advocated Ravenous Baloth or Ancestor's Chosen instead.  Especially now, at the point where you have Morphling on the board, it's pretty much unremovable, so moving counters is kinda irrelevant.  (I always used Morphling/Weaver/Ancient Hydra.)

You probably don't need Blessings if you use Colossi, but if you plan on sideboarding solutions like Woodripper, you might run into issues.

I think if you use Colossi you've turned Oath into a much different deck, bent on aggression and not control.  The difference is analogous to the differences between GAT and Hulk.

Orchard helps, but really, Funeral Pyre isn't too far off (and addresses some issues Oath can have).  Orchard is ridiculously overrated.

[Andreas]

What puzzles me is that everyone insists on using Darksteel Colossus as the creature to oath up. Why not use Cognivore instead?

In the right build by the time it attacks Cognivore will be at least as large as the Colossus, plus right now the only removal in T1 that kills a Cognivore but can not harm a Darksteel Colossus is Red Elemental Blast. (StP kills both) As a bonus the Cognivore is immune to Goblin Welder.

Also in the old Extended days I really liked the Intuition/AK-Engine in Oath.

[cophos]

Cognivore dies to every Removal. If u play Blessings, Cog. isnt a good idea anyway.  ( And do u really need such a big creature, which hasnt to be big in each case, if u can have Collosus and Morphling? )
They are just better against... everything. ( They are much easier to protect, and the morphling u can cast whitout problems from ur hand against control. ( If the forbidden plan doesnt work. )

@Sideboard:
I would integrate some Naturalizes or even oxidize ( thanx to bebe. )
Energy Flux or Null Rod could be good possibilities too. If u fear fast aggrodecks add some E.Explosives. With two or more colors thay seem to be very powerfull.

[RJ]

@ falc

I think the build you propose has some potential as a budget deck, but I have some questions/comments/suggestions.

First, the build seems to be controllish in nature but it doesn't draw enough cards to play as a control deck.  There are cards that improve card quality, but not quantity without an extreme loss of life.  I think that Skeletal Scrying would be a solid choice as a card drawer because it will utilize your graveyard which will possibly be full.  Scrying will also give your Library a chance to be active.  

Mystical and Yawgwin are not very useful in this case.  There's not much for mystical to fetch and the Will will not be that effective without the cheap broken stuff.  

Do you have access to sol ring/mana crypt?  Their inclusion would warrant the MD FoF which right now I don't think you can cast early without drain mana.  

I also think that fastbond is a natural inclusion in this deck because of the sheer number of lands in the deck ( 23 I think).  Basic Islands are also necessary to keep all of your lands from being wasteland targets.

In the sideboard, what is the reasoning behind the propagandas?  They seem like the could be replaced because you don't really want to tap out to play them.

Changes:
Without crypt/ring
-Fact or Fiction, -Chrome Mox, -Mystical, -YawgWin, -Underground Sea, -Fetch
+ 2x Island, + 2x Skeletal Scrying, + Fastbond, ??+ Crucible/Vamp Tutor

With Crypt/Ring
- Lotus petal, -Chrome mox, - Mystical, -YawgWin, -Underground Sea, -Fetch, - Sylvan Library
+ Mana Crypt, + Sol Ring, + 2x Island, + 2x Skeletal Scrying, + Fastbond

Hope this helps.

[Anders Noer]

EDIT: This was posted in the wrong thread... Horrible mistake. Sorry. Please delete this.

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

Andreas is totally right.....Intuition/AK is almost a no brainer in this deck. I played turboland in extended when oath was still legal, and the card drawing of AKs and Scroll racks was sick. Think of it this way. If you oath with one AK in hand, chances are, you'll hit another one and it'll be in your grave, making your AK in hand that much stronger. Intuition is Amazing, as it gets your combo pieces (Oath and Orchard) and card draw (AK and deep analysis). I really don't understand the whole Oathstill thing though. You beat aggro senseless, so the manlands are worthless, and if cut all the garbage in bad oath decks for card draw and counters, you can reliably beat control and combo. Here's my list for what it's worth:

4 Oath
1 Blessing/krosan reclamation
2 Colossus

4 Leak
4 FoW
4 Drain

4 AK's
4 Brainstorm
2 Deep Analysis
1 Ancestral
1 Time Walk
3 Intuition

4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Tropical Island
6 Blue Fetch
7 SoLoMoxen
1 LoA
4 Islands


The SB is still up in the air, but thats what I got so far.

Like I said in my earlier post, it's like monoblue, only with better card draw and a faster win condition.

On budget, obviously the moxes and lotus go away, and in comes wastelands and probably more basic lands. You can't really replace ancestral or walk, but like nameless said, you can try and make the deck more consistent by adding cards like more deeps or regrowth. Also, I would take out leaks, as they aren't as strong if you can't power it out turn 1.

Seriously, I really don't think you need a third color, ESPECIALLY on budget. Will doesn't do shit, and the deck is redundant enough (Read: lots of card draw) that you can find your combo pieces with ease without demonic. White does give you swords, which I will admit is good vs. welders, but could just as easily side in powder kegs or the like. Finally, you're alot less susceptable to wastelands, which is HUGE in this format.

[MisterShark]

With Orchard being quite important, what about a slot for Crop Rotation?

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

Thats the thing though....orchard isn't that necessary. It helps in one bad matchup. Vs. Aggro, you simply drop oath and win. Vs. Combo, you use your 12 counters to drag them into the late game. Vs. Control, you outdraw them, and win. Orchard is just another option you have vs. control. If you have the opening hand of orchard, mox, oath, with force backup, you go with it. If not, you can still try and out draw them. Plus,  remember that intuition is basically a tutor in this deck.

-Bob

[Nameless]

I dig Clowns ideas even better then my own, but this guy was trying to make a Budget build, so can you work up another decklist for the thread without using the Power?

[Falc]

Clown has good ideas.  Sticking with just U/G, perhaps a budget build would look something like this:

Falc's UG Budget Oath
// Win
    4  - Oath of Druids
    2  - Darksteel Colossus
// Counter
    4  - Force of Will
    4  - Mana Drain
    2  - Misdirection
// Draw & Search
    4  - Accumulated Knowledge
    4  - Brainstorm
    3 [TP] - Intuition
    2 [TM] - Deep Analysis
    2  - Cunning Wish
    1 [RV] - Regrowth
    1  - Fact or Fiction
// Mana
    1  - Crucible of Worlds
    1  - Mox Diamond
    1  - Chrome Mox
    1 [TP] - Lotus Petal
    1  - Library of Alexandria
    1  - Strip Mine
    4 [TP] - Wasteland
    3 [CK] - Forbidden Orchard
    4 [RV] - Tropical Island
    4  - Island
    4  - Polluted Delta
    2  - Flooded Strand

I can't say that I'm real high on the Deep Anals.  If you're Oathing, then you're winning.  If you're not Oathing, then DA seems really weak since you have no way to discard it.  I think they might be better served as more permission.  Perhaps Leak, Counterspell, or Stifle?

The interaction between AK and Gaea's Blessing seems really bad to me.  You'd have to have an AK in hand and put Blessing's effect on the stack to take advantage of the extra cards.

I really like Cunning Wish because there are a lot of ways to shut this deck down.  Everything from Moat to Ensnaring Bridge and even Molder Slug prevent you from winning.  Cunning Wish gives you access to removal and bounce as well as other fine tricks.

- Falc

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

Off the top of my head, this is what I would run UNpowered (with drains) and in a BUDGET field:

4 Oath
1 Blessing
2 Collosus

4 Brainstorm
1 Fact or Fiction
4 AK's
3 Deep Analysis
3 Intuition
1 Regrowth

4 FoW
4 Drains

3 Scroll Rack

4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
6 Fetches
4 Tropical Island
1 Sol Ring
4 Forbidden Orchard
6 Islands


Basically, leaks really suck in a budget envrionment, and they suck going second when you can't power it out on your first turn. I would run fact, as you absolutely need card draw. Wastelands and the like are in there basically to slow down your opponent and disrupt them long enough for you to get your combo. I know they suck vs. bad aggro (WW, Sui, etc.), but you beat them regardless. I really like scroll rack unpowered, as it's basically hand manipulation with your 6 fetches and 3 intutions.


The problem is, that you almost HAVE to rely on drain in the unpowered build, which is kinda bad if you see any control. I'll be completely honest. Oath is probably a bad deck to play unpowered. With Orchards and such, Getting oath ASAP is more important than ever, meaning power is almost a must.

-Bob



EDIT: Ofcourse when your oathing deep is bad. The whole point is that when you don't have oath (or orchard), you can intuition for 2 deeps + something else and outdraw your opponent. The beauty of oath is that it can play both Control and Combo. Card advantage is still #1 when you play vs. control.

I will admit blessing is bad with AKs, but I think it's a necessary evil. Even if you oath into blessing, it's not half bad. You get an 11/11 and ALL of your counters and draw get shuffled back into your library. I will try out krosan reclamation, as it might be better. It needs testing.