[Deck] Three Color Tog

[Kerz]

With Fish on the downswing ever since GenCon, Psychatog can safely return to our format. Will it have the spot it once had at the top of our format? I think that is quite possible.

Three Color is the obvious route to go, stable mana bases being one of the most important things in deckbuilding in the format today. Not only does 3 color give you a stable manabase, it also allows you to utilize Back to Basics. B2B is extremely powerful, and the metagame really is wide open for it to run rampant. This is where 3c Tog borrows from mono blue: it has a stable manabase along with Back to Basics.

3c Tog is different from mono blue in the sense that it has a one turn kill mechanism, along with an astounding draw engine. This is what puts it into an entire different tier of control deck.

Losing red means the artifact matchups lose some spunk they once had when you could run Rack and Ruin and Gorilla Shaman. This is a fairly large hit, but can be shored up withe extra Oxidizes or Ground Seals (vs Welders). Overall, what you lose by cutting red isn't nearly on the level of what you gain by not running it.

Here is my list that I played to 5-2-1 at GenCon and 4-2-1 at Endicott(well, it changed a little in between):

//Win
3 Psychatog

//Draw
4 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Deep Analysis
1 Ancestral Recall

//Tutor
2 Cunning Wish
2 Intuition
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor

//Counter
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
3 Duress

//Utility/Other
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Pernicious Deed
2 Back to Basics

//Land/Mana
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
4 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring

//Sideboard
1 Duress
2 Oxidize
1 Naturalize
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Smother
1 Ghastly Demise
1 Berserk
1 Snuff Out
3 Ground Seal
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Echoing Truth
1 Pernicious Deed

The 1 Deed in the board is due to the 1 Deed in the main: IMO you always want 2 between the MD and SB.

After Edicott, I decided I wanted to cut the Deed, because I never used it once in 7 rounds, and it had been only marginal in testing. Also, I questioned the use of Back to Basics in the maindeck after it being practically dead against Control Slaver (the newer versions run 5+ Islands) and Mono U, amung other things.

The Echoing Truth is a necessary evil in my book now- you need an answer to Colossus.

The Snuff Out has been great- randomly killing a 'Fish' or Phid or Welder without spending any mana can be clutch beyond belief. The Smother is in the sideboard to compliment the Snuff Out because it is a way to kill Psychatog, in addition to another way to kill Welder and Fish among other things. Snuff Out/Demise nail artifact creatures too.

Ground Seal is just ludicrous against Control Slaver. It totally shores up the matchup, in testing and in tourney experience.

So after cutting the Deed, I moved it to the sideboard (cutting the 4th Duress- it was really a random slot I thought would come in handy vs. combo), and I have one open slot maindeck. I can add either of these cards:

4th Duress
3rd Wish
3rd Deep Anal
Cut a Tog and Add Tinker/Colossus
Gush
Fact or Fiction
Merchant Scroll

For testing, I am using Gush right now, but I'm pretty open on this slot. Gush is useful when you have a Sea or Trop trapped under a B2B, in addition to just making Tog huge. The only downfall is that in the more controlling style of Tog that this is, you can't afford the tempo loss sometimes.

This deck is obviously way more controlling than previous versions, and is meant to be played as a control deck with a comboish kill- NOT a combo deck like Smmenen's old UBgr version. This deck casts Berserk very seldom- I actually went the entire seven rounds of Endicott without casting it.

At Endicott, I also cast FOF out of the board a ton- because the deck was so much more controlling and slow (not in a bad way).  I think it is too situational for MD though.

Here is a short summary of what happened at Endicott- my report/article is coming up on SCG as soon as I finish it:

Round 1: 2-0 Stax
Round 2: 2-1 5/3
Round 3: 2-1 Control Slaver
Round 4: 0-2 Stax
Round 5: 1-1 Mono U Belcher
Round 6: 2-0 Mono U
Round 7: 0-2 Mono U (I got really screwed in these games, I'm confident 3cTog beats MonoU consistantly)

[GenCon: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=8013]

I'd appreciate any and all comments  on the decklist. I didn't go too in depth because I'm writing an article on the subject which will be done very soon.

The main points I am looking for feedback on:

The slot in the main: Is Gush optimal?
Back to Basics: MD or no? If not, which cards should be added (refer to list)?
Mana Base: 3 Sea/2 Trop/4 Island the right configuration?

Aaron Kerzner

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

Well, I don't really like the md gush.  It's great in the board but I think is simply too conditonal carrying too much tempo loss maindeck- especially since this is a more control oriented build.  I would suggest adding in a 3rd intuition or perhaps a merchant scroll as draw in it's place.

Although as you said b2b isn't too hot in some matchups, in others it is simply gg.  I think that whether or not to run it or cut it is a meta decision based on what you expect to see.  If it is cut cards could be added to intuition/wish/duress count.

I think the 3/2/4 configuration seems fine.

Edit: Note: with b2b this tog build might actually not die horribly to fish.

Edit: This idea kind of just popped into my head, but if you so rarely use berserk, possibly cut green instead of red?  It would offer better artifact removal in the workshop matchups with shamen and R&R as mentioned.  Also of course REB could be added in the board as well.  Of course, you lose deed and ground seal as well as berserk.  (oh and fling could be used as a substitute wish target).  Feel free to tell me if I'm totally off my rocker .

[MaxxMatt]

Kerz.

I'm all with you about cutting a color from an usual Tog's build in order to abuse of a more stable mana base.

The first choice that anyone ( me too of course ) usually do is to cut Red, because green had both Berserk, Deeds and some other really good business spells.

While you assembled a really good build, that is completely selfexplanatory and that is supported by good results, I would like to point out ( as we chat in the past on Efnet ) about cutting Green instead of Red.

That UBR-Tog, is not "a dream" or a "virtual work in project deck", but, as yours, is a deck that made SO WELL in all his different appearings that it should/could be discussed at least a bit.

Our teammates Lorenzo Fedeli, won the last Summer Dulmen with it and another huge experience with this deck consist on 3 UBR-Tog in our last Tourney ( 239 players ). The good thing was that among 239 players the only ones playing UBR-Tog were those 3 players. 100% of UBR-Tog's players top8ed!

The list played at Dulmen is online since August and the Piacenza’s last ones would be up as soon as I could, in the T1Tourney Section.




The only things that I can do about the choice of cutting Red or Green is generally based on style and metagame purposes. Red is stronger in a metagame full of control decks and artifact decks and where aggro isn’t so frequent.

I noticed that you play 3 Togs and 2 Intuitions. I suggest you to try the “2 Togs and 3 Intuitionsâ€? configuration. Usually the first Tog is only a blocker against some nasty aggro deck, while drawing into them before you are going to win is usually a dead draw. Of course I’m speaking with the idea in mind that you Real Only Winner are all the sinergies of the deck AND  Y.Will…  

Good Work!

MaxxMatt

[Mykeatog]

The only thing that jumps out at me is a debate that has been going on for a while, however, I feel it matters enough to mention.

You are playing with a mystical tutor, but not a vampiric tutor. They are both awesome, and mystical pitches to force, but beyond that I don't see a true advantage of runing it. You are only cutting yourself out of tog, deed, b2b, and random land/mox (though this last point is mute).

It seems as though mystical is getting you most of the things you need, but I want to know how often you want to get your bombs when you can't.


Am I off base here?

[jpmeyer]

Since the metagame doesn't consist of a million Tog mirrors and 4cc matches, the DAs can probably go for better card drawers, like Fact or Fiction.

[Kerz]

Mono Blue is exceeedingly popular: I played it THREE times at endicott. Along with Conrol in general always being a huge force, I think Deep Analysis is a permanent addition- Also, only having 1 Intuition target set is bad.

Myke: Vampiric is pretty cool. Running two card disadvantage tutors is kinda rough, though. It's really something that needs to be tested.

Some of you mentioned beating fish. This build absolutely does not "roll over" to Fish, it actually has a favorable matchup. Fish fed on UBgr Tog's horrible manabase and the "combo wannabe" orientation of the deck, and used that to screw them over. You will use the more controlling 3 color Tog to beat fish much more handily, and b2b is such a ridiculous bomb versus them also.

MaxxMatt: while UBR Tog is an interesting idea, I have never even seen the deck play out, nevermind testing it. It looks like an interesting idea, but the lack of Oxidize, Naturalize, and Ground Seal could hurt- even though Red has Rack and Ruin, the cheaper answers (Oxidize/Naturalize) come in handy- while Ground Seal just owns welders, along with other random stuff like Dragon. Mox Monkey is also an answer to welder, but not nearly as well. Ground Seal cantrips and it is difficult to remove, while Mox Monkey can be mnana instensive and doesn't have anything on Darksteel Citadel.

[jpmeyer]

Some of you mentioned beating fish. This build absolutely does not "roll over" to Fish, it actually has a favorable matchup. Fish fed on UBgr Tog's horrible manabase and the "combo wannabe" orientation of the deck, and used that to screw them over. You will use the more controlling 3 color Tog to beat fish much more handily, and b2b is such a ridiculous bomb versus them also.

You can always replace Ground Seal with Old Man of the Sea, who can also steal Welders.

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

It seems to me, that with the rise of control decks and workshop decks and the decrease of fish, Red would be a stronger color than Green. I'm currently testing a 4c Tog list with a stable manabase of:

4 Fetch
4 Sea
3 Volc
2 Trop
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 LoA
6 SoLoMoxen (no pearl)

I have never liked strip effects in tog, as the only land you need to worry about is bazaar.

3 Colors does give you B2B, which is huge, but I don't think it's worth it now. it's a dead draw vs. MonoBlue, CS, and the like, and is worse than wish--->Mutation vs. workshop decks. With Monoblue playing chalice and the rise of CS, I think red is huge, as shaman is spectacular vs. those decks. Not to mention, REB got really good again (with the rise of monoblue).

Sorry to dilute this thread, but I honestly think that red is too important to cut. Red opens up much more SB possibilities, which is what tog is all about. I basically cut the unneeded Wastes/strip and 1 island for 1 more sea and 3 volcs.

-Bob

[TheBrassMan]

I'm not going to suggest that UBR and UBGR Togs decks can't work, but I definitely think that UBG is the way to go right now.  UBR might have been an alright metagame call in Europe recently, but the only Tog that's been doing well in the States lately has been UBG (although this is probably just because I don't run red   )

Berserk is definitely not necessary for the deck to win all of its matches, but it still wins games quickly against decks that can put out a steady stream of blockers (like your arch-nemesis, Fish), something a UGR build can't really do short of something ridiculous like Shadow Rift.

Past Berserk, however, green still feels to me stronger than red.  Ground Seal comes down two turns before Old Man is active, and cantrips.  Against Control Slaver, if you want to have Old Man backed by Mana Drain, you have to wait until turn 6 to activate it, which isn't terribly strong.

     Rack and Ruin is nice, but rarely kills two must-deal-with permenants, Oxidize + Counters have worked fine for me against artifact heavy decks.  Artifact Mutation is, of course, a different story, but it's difficult to cast, even when your mana base supports it.  For versatility, nothing red has compares to Pernicious Deed.  Deed is just too amazing against too many decks for me to consider cutting.

     The only thing green has no replacement for is REB.  While REB would definitely be nice against all of the Mono-U around now, it's not the biggest loss.  Tog has an amazing draw engine, and Duress to work wonders against anything REB could be used against.

[Kerz]

The only thing green has no replacement for is REB.  While REB would definitely be nice against all of the Mono-U around now, it's not the biggest loss.  Tog has an amazing draw engine, and Duress to work wonders against anything REB could be used against.

On that thought, Duress is definitely getting stronger/already ridiculous in this format. Is it a possibly four-of? It's veyr strong versus all control, especially Mono U, and Tendrils combo. It can be randomly handy vs. Workshop when you can take a Trini or Stack on turn 1.

[rvs]

Yes! You definately need 4. You have next to no solution to anything your opponent does, so it seems important to nab one of their key cards turn1 so that they won't get to execute their game plan to the fullest potential.

[TheFram]

Random comment

In UBG has anyone considered Cranial Extraction in the board for post Kamigawa? It seems a nice way to negate opposing REB's and ruin control decks.

-Avi

[Rico Suave]

Deep Analysis practically does the same thing at the same mana, although it helps Tog's strategy along while Extraction does not.

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

Berserk is definitely not necessary for the deck to win all of its matches, but it still wins games quickly against decks that can put out a steady stream of blockers (like your arch-nemesis, Fish), something a UGR build can't really do short of something ridiculous like Shadow Rift.

Past Berserk, however, green still feels to me stronger than red.  Ground Seal comes down two turns before Old Man is active, and cantrips.  Against Control Slaver, if you want to have Old Man backed by Mana Drain, you have to wait until turn 6 to activate it, which isn't terribly strong.

     Rack and Ruin is nice, but rarely kills two must-deal-with permenants, Oxidize + Counters have worked fine for me against artifact heavy decks.  Artifact Mutation is, of course, a different story, but it's difficult to cast, even when your mana base supports it.  For versatility, nothing red has compares to Pernicious Deed.  Deed is just too amazing against too many decks for me to consider cutting.

     The only thing green has no replacement for is REB.  While REB would definitely be nice against all of the Mono-U around now, it's not the biggest loss.  Tog has an amazing draw engine, and Duress to work wonders against anything REB could be used against.

The fish matchup really doesn't matter when you have a stable mana base and b2b on your side... red or green you still win... in fact, red is even better due to fire/ice and I allready suggested fling as your sbed finisher card... it can double damage or dodge blockers.

I think old man is a really bad idea anyways... certainly not compareable to ground seal.. welder is a 1cc card that can kill you on it's own.. a 3cc creature that's just asking to be drained isn't an effective answer, especially since they will have sbed REBs.  I think the best thing old man can do vs welders is pitch to fow.  That said, REB allows you to deal with thirsts quite easily or win counter wars, which helps to fight welder.

Oxdise deals with one artifact while R&R deals with 2... it's like comparing stp with fire/ice in the fish matchup.  Also keep in mind that they both cost the same under sp3re anyways.  Of course, mutation wins you the game, but this thread is talking about 3c tog...  As for deed, yes you are right... there is firestorm for creatures and metdown for artifacts (both wishable, although R&R is usually used instead of meltdown or fire/ice vs firestorm) but they don't compare to deed for versatility(deed gets everything but these only get a specific thing).  However, the fact that these answers are instant speed is a big difference... they can be wished for any/or used while a wire is on the stack, in response to attack with hasted creatures, etc.  Deed must be cast during your main phase and then can't activate untill next turn usually.

Duress and REB are not the same.  Sure, duress is an amazing card, but REBing most spells will net you MAD TEMPO and counters something outright, that they may have drawn into/topdeckes, and while duress can show you their hand and nab a counter or bomb they are certainly not equivilant in the matchups you would want to side REB in for.

I think that red is overall a stronger choice for the 3rd colour, at least in the current meta.