Increased poison potency

[Jebus]

Dark Catalyst
3BB
Legendary Enchantment
If a player would get a poison counter, that player gets two poison counters instead.

Was just thinking about something to enchance poison and make it more deadly.

I'm not sure if this is a good idea or if it is costed appropriately.

It might be able to drop the Legendary Status.  I mostly did that to prevent a cumulative effect, but if people feel that isn't too dangerous we could drop it.

[Jebus]

Dark Catalyst
{3}{B}{B}
Legendary Enchantment
If a player would get a poison counter, that player gets two poison counters instead.

[wonkey_donkey]

The legendary status feels wrong, as does the name. I like the mechanic, though, and it seems appropriately costed.

I would have thought that there should be a counterpart to this that takes 1 poison counter off each ah... transaction. I think that as long as steps are taken to ensure that the poison mechanic isn't too strong, this can safely become non-legendary.

For the name, maybe something with 'drain' in it? It just seems that it could be appropriate. I like the idea of a catalyst, it's just that Dark Catalyst seems a little unwieldly.

Tom

[Ephraim]

Bram and I were discussing just such a card when we started up the poison counter theme. I was thinking something along the lines of {G} and calling it Quiacatl's Will.

[brianb]

I guess we were all thinking of this card.  I was going to suggest it at 2BG.  That's comparable to furnace of rath.  I guess 5cc is okay to be safe.  This is another card that we know ought to exist in a poison set, but setting its final cc will need to be subject to the overall power level of poison.

[Jacob Orlove]

If there are noncreature cards that give your opponent poison counters, then this will probably have to cost at least 6 mana.

[brianb]

I don't know--if the poison giving instants and sorceries are costed appropriately (following the basic guideline that giving a poison counter is twice as potent as taking a life point), this wouldn't necessarily have to cost so much.  Furnace of rath wasn't a problem at 4, so this certainly shouldn't be more than 5 and might be okay at 4.

[Bram]

This doesn't need to be comparable to Furnace of Rath. It needs to be worse. It needs to be green and black and have a CMC of at least 5.

Actually, my idea was to incorporate this mechanic on a huge, rare, overcosted high toughness, low power Timmy creature. Some sort of Avatar, possibly. This way, it's just an enchantment, and that really doesn't make sense from a flavor point of view. Where is this doubling coming from?

[Jebus]

This doesn't need to be comparable to Furnace of Rath. It needs to be worse. It needs to be green and black and have a CMC of at least 5.

Actually, my idea was to incorporate this mechanic on a huge, rare, overcosted high toughness, low power Timmy creature. Some sort of Avatar, possibly. This way, it's just an enchantment, and that really doesn't make sense from a flavor point of view. Where is this doubling coming from?

How would a creature make any more sense?  It could could go either way.

Enchantments can represent anything from some sort of lasting spell, to a shrine, to runes, chemicals...there really isn't a limit to what can be applied.

This represents a potion or additive that makes the poison twice as lethal.

I don't exactly see why this needs to be black and green.

Would anyone support dropping the Legendary status, and bumping the mana cost to 6 and keeping it black?

[Bram]

A creature would make for sense because the poison used by the warriors would increase in potency because of the presence of this evil, divine avatar, rather than by some random spell some shaman has cast. I still tend to think of an enchantment more as a lasting spell of sorts than a shrine or chemicals (which is associate respectively with lands and artifacts). I guess it could work, I'm just saying I'd rather it didn't.

We can have stuff that increases the potency of poison, but I'd rather see those as artifacts from a flavor point of view (a bottle of poison concentrate or something).

It needs to be green and black because something that interacts with poison su fundamentally, should represent both colors that use the mechanic. Also, it would make it harder to cast. If it stays B/G, it can stay at 3BG, I guess. For a less flavorful, mono colored version, it would indeed have to be higher.

[Ephraim]

Bram and I want it to be black and green so that it will fully fit into the flavour of the theme of the set under development that focuses so much on poison counters. I don't really care whether it's an enchantment or a creature. If it's a creature, I think it ought to be Quiacatl, Feathered Snake. On the other hand, if we decided that Quiacatl is supposed to be a planeswalker, then it should be something like Quiacatl's Will. If it's too cheap/too good, then it off balances the strength of poison counters, which makes Jacob Orlove cry. In truth, it has to look cool, but generally be unplayable, except with a very dedicated effort.

With a converted mana cost of six, I don't mind this not being Legendary. If it's only going to cost five, I want it to remain Legendary. Like two Furnaces, this can grow ugly fast. Also, if there's concern that it's a stupid card if it's more expensive than furnace, keep in mind that poison is, by nature, almost twice as good as damage to begin with. A poison double should be considerably more expensive than a damage doubler, even if it has no effect on creatures at all.

[Jebus]

Can I get any other opions on how they feel about this being an enchantment?  I feel there is enough precedent that an enchantment doesn't have to be some spell.

If not, then there is no point in making this a creature since one already exists.

[Jacob Orlove]

I think this would be fine as an enchantment. It's similar in many ways to the Honden from Champions.

Rather than make it a blanket effect, though, it could be something like "Qiacatl's Sanctum".

[Bram]

Why not make it an Enchant World? Then it could be 'Quiacatl's Realm'.