Please Close, New Thread Made

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

Pentecost.dec

The Base///7
1 Darksteel Colossus
2 Eternal Witness
4 Oath of Druids

Control///21
R Balance
R Strip Mine
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Tangle Wire
1 Oxidize
1 Pernicious Deed
2 Fire/Ice
2 Mana Leak
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Force of Will
4 Wasteland

T3ch///12
R Tinker
R Ancestral Recall
R Time Walk
R Yawgmoths Will
R Demonic Tutor
R Mystical Tutor
R Vampiric Tutor
R Crop Rotation
R Regrowth
1 Skeletal Scrying
2 Crucible of Worlds

Mana///20
5 SoloMoxen
R Black Lotus
R Sol Ring
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 City of Brass
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
2 Windswept Heath

Sideboard///15
3 Oxidize
2 Fire/Ice
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Darksteel Colossus
2 Gaeas Blessing
1 Tiaga
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Iridescent Angel

Yah, you're looking at this and saying "What the h3ll??"  :shock:

The deck is a cross between Oath and 4CC. Many 4CC decks have been using DSC+Tinker as an alternative win. It races Aggro and is hard to remove if you're not facing an x/W deck. During playtesting a U/G Oath deck, I found Eternal Witness has amazing synergy with the Oath.

I added white for Balance and Enlightened Tutor, which gives you the power to get Oath faster, and put pesky 1/1 tokens to a minimum.

I then splashed black when I noticed the synergy of Cabal Therapy and Witness...I Oath out the Witness, grab something good, and then sacrifice it to Therapy so next turn I can again Oath. It allows me to filter through to a DSC and is great against combo. This also gave me Demonic Tutor and Cranial Extraction. Extraction is great against combo and works pretty good against alot of control decks because it can take out the top win condition. I even gone so far as to use it to get rid of my opponnet's Artifact Mutation and check out what else he can do. I later found the Deed after DSC can be lethal, and with all those cards in my graveyard, Scryings is insane.

I figured that I might as well go 5 color, and added Fire/Ice as a Fish killer. Later I developed a sideboard based on beating Control decks such as GAT and MonoBlue. The REB help alot in the control matchup. They also kill Fish and counter Draw7s in decks like DeathLong and Draw7.

One thing I immediatly noticed was the number of strip effects I was using, and that they were often in my graveyard. In goes Crucible. Turn 1 Oath, Turn 2 Crucble lock is amazing. Crucible also helps against opposing strip effects because I can replay my Orchards. I also found Tangle Wire, which is amazing early because it stunts growth long enough to get a DSC and usaully can leave him blockerless.

Will is the bomb in the deck. On the second Witness, returning a Will, playing all your artifact mana, Deeding the board, and dropping a Wire is insane. And it's actually quite common. Deed can go as high as you need, but will never reach the DSC.

The sideboard is basically anti Control tech. One more Colossus and 2 Gaea's Blessing help against control because most of the time they counter what you return. The following changes can be made:

+1 Darksteel Colossus
+2 Gaeas Blessing
+1 Tiaga
+3 Red Elemental Blast
+1 Iridescent Angel
- 1 Balance
- 2 Eternal Witness
- 1 Bayou
- 2 Fire/Ice
- 1 Oxidize/Pernicious Deed
- 1 Tangle Wire

And that usaully helps, bumping your counters to 10, and giving you one more DSC in case of StP. Iridescent avoids almost all removal in the current T1, and can be brought in as a slower win.

Against most combo boarding is usaully like this:
+ 1 Cabal Therapy
+ 1 Tiaga
+ 3 REB
- 1 Balance
- 2 Fire/Ice
- 1 Skeletal Scrying
- 1 Tropical Island

Basically its just more disruption. Tinkering for Tangle Wire helps alot and countering their Draw7s is key. Against Belcher, its more like this:
+ 1 Cabal Therapy
+ 3 Oxidize
-  1 Balance
-  1 Skeletal Scryings
-  2 Crucible of Worlds

In conclusion, the deck in my opinion is very solid. I've been working on it with people from the Wizard's Boards and felt that you guys may give me even further suggestions. One person on the WBs is brining this to a T1 tournament soon, so I will post results. Supposivly this is the top T1 board, so hopefully I'll get the quality help I've heard of.

[Team-Judgement]

You play 0 Basic's, which means that you will simply die to a turn 1 trinisphere, since you cant recover with playing basics og fechtes(you only have 2)

Crop rotation is random, when you dont play academy or loa
Others... tangle wire, scrying, deed, oxidize, extraction

You also play enlightned tutor but you dont play vampiric

You got 2 mana leak, 2 fire ice, 4 fow that you wanna picht, tinker, ancestral and walk and mystical are far to good to picht unless its REALLY needed

Mixing Xx good decks doesnt get you a deck that's even better, and witness-cabal theraphy isnt so good as you think. And if he can handle the 1(!) collousos you have you will be dead, since you cant reshuffle your witness's

[Zherbus]

The basic premise of the deck aside... Your deck suffers from the 'RectorTrix' syndrom. Like RectorTrix, you're going the almost-no-gas(card draw)-some-bombs-and-too-much-disruption route. It's for this reason exactly why Suicide can't overcome permanents and why Rector can't overcome graveyard hate.

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

You play 0 Basic's, which means that you will simply die to a turn 1 trinisphere, since you cant recover with playing basics og fechtes(you only have 2)

Crop rotation is random, when you dont play academy or loa
Others... tangle wire, scrying, deed, oxidize, extraction

You also play enlightned tutor but you dont play vampiric

You got 2 mana leak, 2 fire ice, 4 fow that you wanna picht, tinker, ancestral and walk and mystical are far to good to picht unless its REALLY needed

Mixing Xx good decks doesnt get you a deck that's even better, and witness-cabal theraphy isnt so good as you think. And if he can handle the 1(!) collousos you have you will be dead, since you cant reshuffle your witness's

You can still play lands under Trinishphere. The Oxidize, Therapy, and Force of Wills all help prevent Trinishphere. I actually thought of running my own...Oath+Trinishphere+Orchard basically allows me to greatly slow the game as I grab DSC.

I rotate for Orchard. It's basically an Orchard or Strip tutor. Both are important to the deck, one in controlling, and one in winning.

The randoms are toolbox cards that I grab with Witness. Beleive me, Tangle Wire and Deed are monsters after a DSC.

The Enlightened versus Vampiric has been brought up alot. I've though that the life loss may hurt with CoBs, Scrying, Fetches, and Forces. I'll make the change and test it.

For an opening hand Force of Will there are 11 other possible cards to ditch to it. Ditching Time Walk to stop a first turn Sphere or CoW isn't that bad. It is important against combo.

The basic premise of the deck aside... Your deck suffers from the 'RectorTrix' syndrom. Like RectorTrix, you're going the almost-no-gas(card draw)-some-bombs-and-too-much-disruption route. It's for this reason exactly why Suicide can't overcome permanents and why Rector can't overcome graveyard hate.

The difference between RectorTrix and this is that I can overcome both Graveyard hate and nonbasic hate. I only need 2 lands to drop Oath, and post-sideboard I can play Gaea's Blessing.

I have 7 Tutor/draw spells. After the Oathed Witness, its like a tutor. Basically I just need those 7 cards to get me Oath.

I guess the basic question is this: Is the Oath/Witness toolbox too weak? I believe it is strong enough to bring you answers.

Double post merged. Next time, put all your replies in one post.
-Jacob

[Mixing Mike]

I think the deck is trying to do to much all at once.  I'm not trying to discourage you, but more like trying to encourage you to scrap this decklist and start anew.  You need to keep a good Draw:Juicy spells:Mana ratio.  

I guess the basic question is this: Is the Oath/Witness toolbox too weak? I believe it is strong enough to bring you answers.

Thinking and knowing what wins in Vintage is two different stories.  Go test  the deck, and see what needs to be changed.  It's hard to change the deck around, espically if you've been happy with it, or built it yourself.  It's even harder to abandon it.  Also, claming a belief isn't worth anything without factual evidence.  Nobody is going to play a new deck unless they know it wins.

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

I think the deck is trying to do to much all at once.  I'm not trying to discourage you, but more like trying to encourage you to scrap this decklist and start anew.  You need to keep a good Draw:Juicy spells:Mana ratio.  

I guess the basic question is this: Is the Oath/Witness toolbox too weak? I believe it is strong enough to bring you answers.

Thinking and knowing what wins in Vintage is two different stories.  Go test  the deck, and see what needs to be changed.  It's hard to change the deck around, espically if you've been happy with it, or built it yourself.  It's even harder to abandon it.  Also, claming a belief isn't worth anything without factual evidence.  Nobody is going to play a new deck unless they know it wins.

I've tested the deck alot. I found it had no problems versus any form of Aggro, and Control was about 50/50. MWS has been mysteriously clad of any Combo decks. I've played against DR4GON and won 2-0 and what may have been sub optimum DeathLong and went 2-1.

I've scrapped the whole deck twice and this is what I've come up with. It's been winning. Please don't dis it before you test it also.

[Jacob Orlove]

MWS testing is worthless. Moved to newbie.

[Covetous]

You say this deck is winning, but against who playing what?  You have a bunch of random 1-ofs so that you can get them when you dump your library into the yard, but that is a lackluster way to find answers.  You'd be better off running cunning wish and a toolbox sideboard.  A lot of your answers are something like this--"Such-and-such random subpar one-of is good when you have a DSC in play."  This is by definition win-more.  Tangle wire is generally best early in the game and especially is good against control.  So, being able to find one turn 4 or 5 isn't good, unless you have a smokestack out (please for the love of god don't put stax in...).  This is made even worse by the fact that you are giving them permanents (spirits).  And again, what do you do when you draw your DSC?  You will deck yourself pretty soon if you oath because you don't shuffle your library back into your deck.  The idea of EWitness as a semi-tutor with oath is interesting.  I'm not 100% sure about the errata of Oath, but you might be able to stack it so that your witness grabs a card from your yard before blessing shuffles everything back in.  That would be kinda neat, but kinda neat doesn't win in type 1.  Powerful and consistent win type 1.  Steve is right, you need card draw to become consistent.  One skeletal scrying is not going to be very useful because you have no real way to draw it.  Cards like Brainstorm and multiple scryings are the glue that allows a deck like this to even possibly exist.  I would consider scrapping the idea of cute crucible tricks simply because many decks now (other than this) are somewhat resistant to non-basic land hate.  And 4 city of brass hurts like hell, especially in a control deck.  You would be better off with fewer colors and more fetches and duals.  

So, what I'm really trying to say is this--the basic idea of this deck (oath/witness) is interesting but flawed.  You might be able to make Witness work in a deck like this if GBlessing can be stacked under the witness CIP ability.  But, using witness to tutor random one-ofs will not work well in the long run.  And almost by definition, oath decks need brainstorm.  It prevents you from drawing all of your win conditions and not being able to win using oath.  So, I would consider the following changes:
-1 cranial extraction
-1 oxidize
-1 tangle wire
-2 fire/ice
-3 cabal therapy
-1 crop rotation
-1 regrowth
-2 crucible
-1 balance
-1 tinker
+2 gaea's blessing
+2 cunning wish
+1 DSC
+2 mana leak
+4 brainstorm
+1 pernicious deed
+2 skeletal scrying
-4 wasteland
-4 CoB
-1 strip mine
-2 windswept heath
+2 tropical island
+4 polluted delta
+2 island
+3 underground sea

If you like mana leak, keep it in.  Many people would say mana drain is better and that's probably true, but try both and then decide.  These drastic changes will keep the idea of the deck (oath/witness) while increasing consistency.  Alternatively, if you want to use strips/crucible, keep the deck down to two colors (UG) for consistency.  Basically, 5 colors in 24 mana with 6 colorless sources cannot be a stable manabase.  Be sure to check the errata for the interaction between oath, witness and blessing.

[Zherbus]

The difference between RectorTrix and this is that I can overcome both Graveyard hate and nonbasic hate. I only need 2 lands to drop Oath, and post-sideboard I can play Gaea's Blessing.

I have 7 Tutor/draw spells. After the Oathed Witness, its like a tutor. Basically I just need those 7 cards to get me Oath.

I guess the basic question is this: Is the Oath/Witness toolbox too weak? I believe it is strong enough to bring you answers.

You entirely missed my point and I think you're missing other peoples points as well.

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

MWS testing is worthless. Moved to newbie.

MWS is not worthless. I don't have a competive meta where I live so it's easier to find opponnets online.

I've been playing Magic for 7 years, T1 for about 3. I'm actually a skilled player, I pioloted a Pox at a local tournament where the top T1 Player in Massachusetts was playing. I came in second in a tourney and I didn't get to play him. I'm an intelligent player who doesnt need the deck to play itself, I play the deck. Telling me I'm a Newbie is worthless. How can a moderator be so ignorant? I don't see what makes MWS worthless, it's a good tool to playtest when you can't drive an hour to playtest.

I heard that TMD people were asshole, but this is alittle worse than I thought.

Newbie is ThornElemental.dec....A valid deck idea that is trying to be competive is Vintage.

[wonkey_donkey]

I heard that TMD people were asshole, but this is alittle worse than I thought.

Newbie is ThornElemental.dec....A valid deck idea that is trying to be competive is Vintage.

That's the kind of thing that'll get you banned pretty quickly. The people who feel that TMDers are assholes are those who do not understand why you're on the site in the first place. If you want the top players to have a look at what you're doing, then post here. If you don't like what they've got to say, chances are that they're right and you're wrong. They tell you how it is - no bad thing, in my book.

Newbie is this sort of stuff. ThornElemental.dec will get locked (probably for not following the "blatant ignorance" rule). If you can show that this is worth being in the open forum, then I'm sure Jacob will be more than happy to move it back again. It's his judgement to move it here, and chances are that it's not him being 'ignorant,' as you put it - it's him knowing this place better than you do. If this should be in open, then post like this should be in open.

Your deck has no specific strengths: 4CC can beat aggro, which seems to be the justification for playing oath. You've got a worse manabase, and your toolbox can only help you when you're already winning. Covetous and Zherbus have good points, I feel.

Tom

[Zherbus]

MWS is not worthless. I don't have a competive meta where I live so it's easier to find opponnets online.

I've been playing Magic for 7 years, T1 for about 3. I'm actually a skilled player, I pioloted a Pox at a local tournament where the top T1 Player in Massachusetts was playing. I came in second in a tourney and I didn't get to play him. I'm an intelligent player who doesnt need the deck to play itself, I play the deck. Telling me I'm a Newbie is worthless. How can a moderator be so ignorant? I don't see what makes MWS worthless, it's a good tool to playtest when you can't drive an hour to playtest.

I heard that TMD people were asshole, but this is alittle worse than I thought.

Newbie is ThornElemental.dec....A valid deck idea that is trying to be competive is Vintage.

He didn't CALL you a newbie, he moved the decks thread which obviously needs work to the newbie forum. I will call you out of touch and in need of some basic assistance. That requires the newbie forum touch. Sorry if that offends you, but when a certain amount of people tell me the same thing over and over, I consider that they JUST might have a point. Get over yourself, stoping taking criticism of YOUR DECK personally, get over your bruised ego, and stay focused on the deck.

If you want to call TMD people assholes, ask yourself why we have the level of discussion no other site touches. We are tough on questionable subjects, we like real actual data and reasoning, and aren't about to pull punches to avoid hurting someones feelings. If you want to be coddled, caressed gently, and told everythings going to be ok - call your mother. If you want to get feedback on your deck, answer and accept criticism, and maybe learn something - come back and post here.

Newbie is for not understanding fundimentals of the game, Casual is for ThornElemental.dec.

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

MWS is not worthless. I don't have a competive meta where I live so it's easier to find opponnets online.

I've been playing Magic for 7 years, T1 for about 3. I'm actually a skilled player, I pioloted a Pox at a local tournament where the top T1 Player in Massachusetts was playing. I came in second in a tourney and I didn't get to play him. I'm an intelligent player who doesnt need the deck to play itself, I play the deck. Telling me I'm a Newbie is worthless. How can a moderator be so ignorant? I don't see what makes MWS worthless, it's a good tool to playtest when you can't drive an hour to playtest.

I heard that TMD people were asshole, but this is alittle worse than I thought.

Newbie is ThornElemental.dec....A valid deck idea that is trying to be competive is Vintage.

He didn't CALL you a newbie, he moved the decks thread which obviously needs work to the newbie forum. I will call you out of touch and in need of some basic assistance. That requires the newbie forum touch. Sorry if that offends you, but when a certain amount of people tell me the same thing over and over, I consider that they JUST might have a point. Get over yourself, stoping taking criticism of YOUR DECK personally, get over your bruised ego, and stay focused on the deck.

If you want to call TMD people assholes, ask yourself why we have the level of discussion no other site touches. We are tough on questionable subjects, we like real actual data and reasoning, and aren't about to pull punches to avoid hurting someones feelings. If you want to be coddled, caressed gently, and told everythings going to be ok - call your mother. If you want to get feedback on your deck, answer and accept criticism, and maybe learn something - come back and post here.

Newbie is for not understanding fundimentals of the game, Casual is for ThornElemental.dec.

I realise the deck needs work, that's why I brough it here. The Wizards Boards only help so much, and after people accepted the basis and started making new versions of it, I brought it here so I could get better opinions.

When he moved it to Newbie I expected it was like the Casual boards of Wizards. It's more like a Budget board I guess, sorry if I misinterpeted it.

I still don't see what's wrong with MWS. Can you explain?

[Zherbus]

I realise the deck needs work, that's why I brought it here. The Wizards Boards only help so much, and after people accepted the basis and started making new versions of it, I brought it here so I could get better opinions.

When he moved it to Newbie I expected it was like the Casual boards of Wizards. It's more like a Budget board I guess, sorry if I misinterpeted it.

I still don't see what's wrong with MWS. Can you explain?

Exactly, the Wizards boards only help so much. You can't always expect to like what you hear. Moving along though...

MWS testing is fine to a point if you can find good testing partners, but the fact remains that playing against random people on the internet is not good testing. If I want to test, I look up players I know will be good not just any old kid that happens by me. Also, MWS and APPR have slight variances in the shuffler which has been known to throw off testing data.

[PipOC]

I still don't see what's wrong with MWS. Can you explain?

100 to 1 scrub to good player ratio

[dicemanx]

I still don't see what's wrong with MWS. Can you explain?

MWS is a good tool, but it suffers from two issues:

1) It's not so easy to find challenging decks to play against. If you're trying to test, you have to ensure that you are playing competent players with *good* decks for your results to have any validity.

2) MWS doesn't have the nuances of playing in person, although this is more of a minor point.

With regards to the deck: It looks way too random with all of the 1 and 2-ofs and with so little card drawing. The Witness as a tutor engine with Oath is a cute trick, but if you get to the point in the game where you are using Oath, you should be close to winning. You need tutoring or card drawing to *get* to that point in the first place! Just because you run 4 Oaths and a couple of tutors doesn't mean that you will be resolving Oath as quickly as you might like. A deck like Keeper can run so many random 1/2 ofs because it has massive draw/search/tutoring power. Your deck is lacking that in a big way.

You are also running some very questionable cards. Witnesses and Regrowth, along with Crop Rotation, Tangle Wire and Oxidize are very conditional and won't always be very useful. Therapies are also weak disruption spells as they need Witness or Oath to gain appreciably in strength. And while Crucibles are amazing in 4CC, they are not as good in your deck. You deck lacks stopping power and the ability to control the board compared to regular 4CC. You deck instead relies on the game ending power of Oath and Tinker. Why not mainly focus on those goal(s)?  

I imagine that you are sort of hoping everything comes together somehow during the games, and while it will on occasion, it won't behave for you with any consistency.

Just to give you an example, here would be one possible approach to your deck. It's 56 cards, giving it some flexibility for the last 4 spots:

engine(7):
=======
2x Darksteel Collosus
1x Tinker
4x Oath of Druids

Disruption(8):
=========
4x FoW
4x Mana Drain

card draw/search/utility (10):
===================
4x Brainstorm
2x Skeletal Scrying
2x Cunning Wish
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Ancestral Recall

Tutors/broken(5):
============
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Time Walk
1x Yawgmoth's Will

mana(26):
=======
7x SoLoMox
3x Forbidden Orchard
2x City of Brass
3x Underground Sea
2x Tropical Island
4x Polluted Delta
2x Island
2x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine


For the final slots, here would be my card possibilities:

More disruption (Cranial Extraction, Mana Leak)
Gaea's Blessing (although I think this might be largely unnecessary).
Another creature (non-artifact perhaps) - to get around Extraction or Welders. Perhaps something castable like Morphling?
Fire/Ice - Another way to try to contend with Welder. This would require a slight alteration of the mana base.
Crucible of Worlds - Would require adding the 2 missing Wastelands back into the deck.

[Mixing Mike]

2) MWS doesn't have the nuances of playing in person, although this is more of a minor point.

I find this to me the major reason why MWS isn't the best way to play.  I like to see what my opponent draws.

Back on topic....

I like diceman's version of the deck much better.  The thing I don't like about it that you have a difficult time winning unless your opponent plays a creature.

It's been winning. Please don't dis it before you test it also.

I am in no way putting down your deck.  All I said was that I thought it needed work. Nobody is going to play your deck without reason to, and you have to produce those reasons via strong, solid testing.

[PipOC]

The thing I don't like about it that you have a difficult time winning unless your opponent plays a creature.

Forbidden Orchard is the one responsible for creating the new influx of Oath decks.

:tap: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Whenever you tap Forbidden Orchard for mana, put a 1/1 colorless Spirit creature token into play under target opponent's control.

It's been a boon to oath

[Mixing Mike]

Ah-ha, I missed that, thanks.

[proGaming]

I find this to me the major reason why MWS isn't the best way to play. I like to see what my opponent draws.

Solitare Mode, that's how I get my testing done.

[PipOC]

Solitare Mode, that's how I get my testing done.

you can't reliably test control decks that way though

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

Solitare Mode, that's how I get my testing done.

you can't reliably test control decks that way though

That's why you have people like Pip test with you   duh

I'm making a new verison right now, it will be up later.

[PipOC]

That's why you have people like Pip test with you   duh

I'm making a new verison right now, it will be up later.

ALLSUNSKEEPER PWNS J00...It's sad cause it's true

[Bulls on Parade]

I've been playing Magic for 7 years, T1 for about 3. I'm actually a skilled player, I pioloted a Pox at a local tournament where the top T1 Player in Massachusetts was playing. I came in second in a tourney and I didn't get to play him.

OMG Back when I played regularly I lost to ELD on a weekly basis. Am I cool??

Anyways, I really just wanted to post to clear something up it doesn't seem you can understand:

The difference between RectorTrix and this is that I can overcome both Graveyard hate and nonbasic hate. I only need 2 lands to drop Oath, and post-sideboard I can play Gaea's Blessing.

No one is comparing the cards or strategies in your deck to any other deck- it's the fact that it has a similar weakness when actually playing a game- it can get solid hands that just win more than they lose, but at the same time it can get hands that just aren't going to do it for you.

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

The Base///6
2 Eternal Witness
4 Oath of Druids

Win///5
R Grim Monolith
1 Power Artifact
3 Cunning Wish

Control///15
R Strip Mine
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
3 Wasteland

Draw Engine///7
R Ancestral Recall
2 Skeletal Scrying
4 Thirst For Knowledge

Tech///6
R Entomb
R Time Walk
R Yawgmoths Will
R Demonic Tutor
R Mystical Tutor
R Vampiric Tutor

Mana///20
5 SoloMoxen
R Black Lotus
R Sol Ring
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 City of Brass
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
2 Windswept Heath

Sideboard///15
3 Oxidize
2 Fire/Ice
1 Kaverak's Torch
1 Darksteel Colossus
2 Gaeas Blessing
1 Tiaga
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Iridescent Angel

Newer version. Runs with a quicker kill: PowerMonolith. It's kind of like Combo Keeper...I'm not sure if it's worse or better.

I'm undecided on a draw engine. Theres two versions:

R Ancestral Recall
2 Skeletal Scrying
4 Thirst For Knowledge

R Ancestral Recall
2 Night's Whisper
4 Brainstorm

Advantage of first:

Net's me more cards, Thirst has good synergy with Scrying and Will.

Advantage of second:

More cost efficant and lets me shuffle Witnesses in if I have a fetchland.

Right now testing shows the first to be more stable, allowing me to go off without the Oath if need be.

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

The Base///6
2 Eternal Witness
4 Oath of Druids

Win///5
R Grim Monolith
1 Power Artifact
3 Cunning Wish

Control///15
R Strip Mine
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
3 Wasteland

Draw Engine///7
R Ancestral Recall
2 Skeletal Scrying
4 Thirst For Knowledge

Tech///7
R Entomb
R Time Walk
R Yawgmoths Will
R Demonic Tutor
R Mystical Tutor
R Vampiric Tutor
1 Krosan Reclamation

Mana///20
5 Moxen
R Black Lotus
R Sol Ring
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
3 Polluted Delta

Sideboard///15
4 Oxidize
1 Stroke of Genius
2 Krosan Reclamation
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Dosan the Falling Leaf
1 Cabal Therapy
4 Daze

Now just UGB. Dosan is tech against control, I'm not sure how it will work. If I Oath it up, I can go off without worrying about FoW. That also means I don't need to pack Colossus in the sideboard because it really only helps in the control matchup. The 2 basic lands are for MonoBlue and other Wasteland heavy decks. Daze and Therapy go in against Combo. The Reclamations can be wished for to reshuffle Witnesses.

[Jacob Orlove]

I already told you to NOT double post. Closed.