TO's .... Work Together or Compete?

[Frappie]

I'm writing this out because today there are three tournaments in the New England area. Should TO's be working together so that their tournaments don't fall on the same day as another, or should they be working to take their so called competition away?

Today you have The Whiz http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19521

A Hadley http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20027

And a Lenox http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19550

None of these are that far away from each other. I personally would have gone to either of them if it hadn't been on the same day as The Whiz's tournament. Should it be that the first person to post on TMD gets rights as to being able to call another store and ask them to move it or should it still be cutthroat?
 
I don't want to start bad blood but I think it would be cool to come to some sort of understanding as now there are many stores in the NE area that want to start running their own T1 events. In the Metrowest area alone there are four that I can think of and none of them want to step on eachother's toes out of the fact that doing that would kill turnout. After this day we sha'll see if three tournaments in a small area can actually work.

P.S. Please leave this in the open forum so that I can get everybody's opinion.

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

I think that co-ordinating these things together is really the only way to go.  If too many tournements fall on the same day, everybody suffers.  Advance planning to prevent these situations seems to be the reasonable solution.

[Kowal]

Unfortunately, this is the northeast, and as there are tournaments every weekend, no matter which one you take, you're competing with someone.  The decision process (for me) to determine which day a tournament will be scheduled usually looks like this.

Is there an open weekend?

If not, which weekend has the fewest things going on?

Which tournament is the least likely to obliterate me if we schedule on the same day?

And the last factor could possibly not be here, and probably shouldn't be, but it's a factor anyway.  Occasionally one will look at who's TOing a given event, and schedule on that day intentionally.  I did this to Lenox because I was irritated about their scheduling the same day as the TMD Champs.  


It's hard to mix morality with proper planning, but I think if we put a little effort towards keeping things cool with eachother in the future (and I'll be putting more effort forward as well) we should be in good shape despite having a little competition every so often.

[kl0wn]

In my humble opinion, TOs should schedule their tournaments around the previously announced tournaments. That's what I did with TMDC3: announced it well over a month in advance to give other TOs notice so they wouldn't screw everyone involved including themselves. Unfortunately, certain people decided to be disrespectful and generally stupid and completely disregard the gesture.

But enough about how much I hate the Lenox guy.

Yes, TOs should work together. In a perfect world all of the TOs would be in cahoots so that every Type 1 tournament would get the attendance that it needs and everything would work out just fine.

This isn't a perfect world however, and everybody wants to get a piece of the pie. Unfortunately, there still isn't enough pie to go around. Now is the wrong time for Type 1 tournament organizers to start competing with eachother as Vintage is still only in it's adolescence and there are simply not enough players to support so many simultaneous events.

With many TOs stepping on eachother's toes, attendance for these events goes down which means that the organizers lose money if they put up decent prizes when another event draws away their expected turnout. After TOs lose enough money, they can no longer afford to put up decent prize support and the scene at that store goes kaput. In essence, the TOs that schedule events carelessly are going to end up imploding and potentially taking others with them.

One answer to this dilemma is to get more new blood into Type 1. This is becoming increasingly difficult though, because of the inflation of the prices of Type 1 staple cards and the slash-and-burn techniques of dealers and TOs coupled with the people who are willing to shell out $800 for a Black Lotus that allow said slash-and-burn dealer practices to work.

Yes, I'm hinting at the premature death of Vintage. Well...maybe not death, but a return to the dark ages prior to 2002 where only the most hardcore of hardcore Type 1 players participate in chump-change-for-prizes tournaments, which are the only tournaments around. This is from too many careless people gnawing on the Vintage community and trying to "get theirs" while they can. The way things have been going lately have led me to believe that none of these people have any idea of how to nurture and sustain a thriving Vintage community.

[Bulls on Parade]

The decision process (for me) to determine which day a tournament will be scheduled usually looks like this.

Is there an open weekend?

If not, which weekend has the fewest things going on?

Which tournament is the least likely to obliterate me if we schedule on the same day?

This is either flat out untrue, or your policy has drastically changed in just a few months, which I doubt based on how adamant you were about sticking to your "schedule" in the past.

I remember the last time I  tried to do anything with a Cape Cod event and after having a post for a good month in the Annoucement forum you announced a Hadley tourney on the same day, which was ridiculous since we have them the same weekend every month. You said I was welcome to address you personally about it, and I did, only to receive some utter BS story about you also scheduling events on the same weekend of each month. Now, all I'm asking is, how can both sides of this story be true?

[Smmenen]

It's ridiculous that tournament organizers would do that.

You Northeast people would eat your own children.

Thank god people like Pete Hoefling are stepping up to provide some kickass tournaments with judges like Matt V.

[Mixing Mike]

The only way to have a good layout is to let each store contact each other.  I doubt the store owners are that worried about events.  Besides how many stores are in the MA, CT, RI area for eample?  That's a ton of work the TO's have to work on to get a better tournament schedule.  It might work in some places, but I don't see it happening in New England.

[Frappie]

To give you an idea as to how this sort of thing effects tournaments.... The Whiz got 10 people not like the 25 that we got last time. I think that this is total bull. People should step up realize that eye for an eye is the worst fucking thing ever. Kowal you should have run something the following day and call it like lenox blows and copied the prizes and added something rather then post on the same day as us. I'm pretty pissed, however I will still announce my Tournaments a good 1-2 months in advance so as not to warp other peoples tournaments, and I will make sure not to plan same day events over anybody in the NE and even as far as freaking Jersey, cause the NJ guys are cool too.

Thats it. Today sucked. Bad Day for T1.

Side Notes: Mykeatog- Tell Bill to wait on posting his tournaments until after you check TMD to see if your running the blocks on other tournaments.

Kowal: I appreciate the fact that you mentioned the tournament from the whiz, however casting Vindicate on Bill's tournament got forked and well we got the shaft. Yeah your pissed at the dumb thing that bill did. I don't blame you. I would say that since your both probably gonna have shit tournaments for turnout, your even. Please don't throw out the hate anymore.

[Hi-Val]

Maybe this is just simple thinking, but what if two or more stores decided to co-sponsor a tournament? You get added prizes, the player pool from both, larger attendence to to prizes, and nobody cock-blocking eachother inadvertently or otherwise every weekend.

Why not rent a small hall or decide who hosts the players and split the profits?

[Methuselahn]

I don't see a problem.  This is how the market system in the United States is suppossed to work.  If TOs don't get enough people, tournament numbers will decrease in the area, as they should.  It's all about money.  Money brings balance to the force.  Right now, there may be too many power tournaments in New England.  This is directly related as to why power has increased in cost as much as it has.  Stop whining, I say.

If people could use a ranking system then we'd still retain bragging rights.  Instead, you must put up power to retain competition worth paying for.  Too bad proxies have killed this though.

[wonkey_donkey]

The problem with the market system justification is that rather than encouraging efficiency (which in this case can be regarded as better prizes), it just makes each tournament make a bigger and bigger loss. Eventually people will realise that either TOs will have to work together or the prize funds are going to drop. Massively. Alternatively, interest in playing in type 1 tournaments goes through the roof, prices stay where they are or go up, and prize funds are still guaranteed and given out and everyone's happy.

I'm no raving leftie, but for once the competetive market system is not going to work. The costs are too high, and you can't reduce them without losing business. Meanwhile, the equilibrium price and quantity of people is too low to cover the cost of the increasingly-expensive power cards. Cooperation would be the least controversial way to sort out the problem, as the much needed increase in demand isn't going to happen in time.

Tom

[Methuselahn]

The way I read it, you are totally missing the point.  Why cant people be happy with lower prizes?  Wouldn't this increase the frequency of tournies?  Isn't that what you really want anyway? TO PLAY MORE MTG??

[eastman11]

If we're talking about the market system here, a little economics is applicable to help with the problem,  namely supply and demand.  Because of the increased interest in T1 as of late, prices for Power cards have inflated for the most part because of the increase in demand for them.  If they have gone too high, since there is no way to increase the supply, then competition should take over to lower the prices.  You can kind of apply this to tournaments.  Tournaments held on the same day give more people the opportunity to win the more and more expensive power.  Eventually though, if these tournaments are unprofitable, the businesses will either have to give cheaper prizes or they'll have to close.  With less venues, interest will drop because there will be no way to acquire the Power which is obviously too expensive and there will be nowhere to play.  Prices will go down then.

So basically what we have here is if we let lots of tournaments occur, there will be cheaper access to Power, but it won't last for long because it won't be profitable.  If there is cooperation between TOs to plan tournaments so there isn't the same competition, then the price of Power will keep going up and stay higher but the greater security of good attendance will let those kinds of tournaments keep going.

So either good old fashioned competition to try to curb Power prices and eventually force out businesses, or cooperation that allows Power tournaments to continue longer, but Power will be harder and more expensive to get for the average player who can't win tournies.

[eastman11]

EDIT: Sorry, double post.

[Pern]

The Whiz, charging $15 and giving away a Library, got 10 people.

Lenox was charging $25 for
1: Unlimited ANCESTRAL RECALL
2: Italian MANA DRAIN
3: Italian NETHER VOID
4: Spanish MANA CRYPT
5-8: Italian Legends pack + German Renissance booster1

They got 8 people.

Collectible Corner in Hadley, charging $10 for prizes based on attendance, with a minimum of a Library, got 41,
and gave away a Mox, a Drain, and a Berserk.
There were people from Boston, New Hampshire, Vermont and Connecticut.

I've said ever since routine tournaments stopped being $10 that they were too expensive.
Base the prizes on attendance and you risk nothing.
Make the tournaments cheap and players will come,
and you can afford to give away real prizes.
Everybody wins.

I'll pay $10 to playtest my new burn deck against real players all day,
with no chance of winning anything.
Timmy will bring his Elf deck.
$25? Uhhh, no thanks.

As an aside, I'm sorry The Whiz got caught in the crossfire between Kowal and Bill.

[hulk3rules]

You guys are all looking at this the wrong way.  Let the TOs fight with each other.  When TOs fight YOU win.  Look at what happened today.  Lennox pissed off Kowal a few weeks ago, so he holds (from what I read) an awesome tournament at Hadley that got 41 people, which if I remember form the annoucement means everyone there paid 10 bucks to play for Mox + Library??

When TOs fight the players win.  Enough said

[ctthespian]

In my humble opinion, TOs should schedule their tournaments around the previously announced tournaments. That's what I did with TMDC3: announced it well over a month in advance to give other TOs notice so they wouldn't screw everyone involved including themselves. Unfortunately, certain people decided to be disrespectful and generally stupid and completely disregard the gesture.

But enough about how much I hate the Lenox guy.

Unfortunately, this is the northeast, and as there are tournaments every weekend, no matter which one you take, you're competing with someone.  The decision process (for me) to determine which day a tournament will be scheduled usually looks like this.

Is there an open weekend?

If not, which weekend has the fewest things going on?

Which tournament is the least likely to obliterate me if we schedule on the same day?

And the last factor could possibly not be here, and probably shouldn't be, but it's a factor anyway.  Occasionally one will look at who's TOing a given event, and schedule on that day intentionally.  I did this to Lenox because I was irritated about their scheduling the same day as the TMD Champs.  

OK Frist of all I knew of the date at Lenox before the Endioctt tournament was ever scheduled.  Because news of the date wasn't posted on TMD, GOD FORBID, doesn't change the fact that the dates of the previous, and next three tournaments, that Lenox ran were set beofre Bryce picked his.  This is barring the fact the the tournaments were approximately 3 hours distance from each other.  Bryce may think that Lenox hurt attendace to his tournament, but from talking that day nobody planned on going to Endicott anyway reguardless of Lenox holding an event.  Props, respect and much honor is seen in Bryce for sticking to the established prizes.

Now we take this current weekend:

> Lenox's date was already set.  I'm not sure about the date at the Wiz.  

> Kowal posts a nasty in the Lenox thread about boycotting the Lenox tournament.  

> A couple of days later he post a tournament in Haldey after a long long drought of not holding events.  

> First Kowal knowingly hold a tournament eqidistant from two others on the same day.  Nothing like the 2-3 hours that Endicott and Lenox are from each other.

> Does so out of spite that Lenox's supposed;y attempted to thwart Endicott's event.  

> Gives out meager prize support compared to the prizes at Lenox, despite entrance fee.

Bryce's honor out shines Kowal's by a mile here.


Today I chose to go to Lenox.  One the fact that I use Kowal's own spiteful resoning, thinking that, well Hadley is the bad guy here for posting on the same day as Lenox.  Two Lenox lost money or barely made even on the first event and still stuck to prizes.  Three a 2pm start time is silly.

Lenox had 8 people show up today.  All from CT to my knowledge.  No Myketog in attendance, a good supporter of Bill so far.  So now everyone, Kowal mostly, is going to gloat right?   We killed the event hooray!!   Wrong!  Not only was the tournament held with 8, yup eight, people for an Ancestral Recall.  After Bills proposal eight people agreed and played for the originaly proposed top 4 prizes.

1: Unlimited ANCESTRAL RECALL
2: Italian MANA DRAIN
3: Italian NETHER VOID
4: Spanish MANA CRYPT
5-8: Italian Legends pack + German Renissance booster

So the Boosters for 5th through 8th place were dropped.  Let's do some math.

8x$25 entrance fee = $200
Ancestral Recall - $350  < I'm being generous
Italian Drain = $75
Nether Void = $50
Spanish Mana Crypt = $25
Total = $500   Bill lost $300 at least the ancestral is worth more I'm sure.

Kowal you called me out to Hadley in your tournament thread...
You can't pay me to come to Hadley anymore and play.  Bill earned my respect today and hoplefully this earns others too.

Future Lenox dates:
Nov 13th
Dec 11th

I'm sure well see Hadley hosting events then too.

-Keith

PS  I came home with the drain.

[wonkey_donkey]

The way I read it, you are totally missing the point.  Why cant people be happy with lower prizes?  Wouldn't this increase the frequency of tournies?  Isn't that what you really want anyway? TO PLAY MORE MTG??

I feel that there are a lot of people who are willing to play for lower prizes. However, not all TOs are going to reduce the prizes together, so that those who keep the prizes high for that bit longer will survive. With the precedent of P9 tournaments and so forth, reducing prizes without having minimal turnout is difficult. Myself and (presumably) the majority of others would be more than happy to play in most tournaments, but that doesn't mean that TOs can reduce the prizes without losing out.

My point is that the prize structure cannot be maintained over time, but that getting them back to a sustainable level is not going to happen easily. If TOs co-operate, then the problem is easier to fix.

Tom

[Vegeta2711]

8x$25 entrance fee = $200
Ancestral Recall - $350 < I'm being generous
Italian Drain = $75
Nether Void = $50
Spanish Mana Crypt = $25
Total = $500 Bill lost $300 at least the ancestral is worth more I'm sure.

Kowal you called me out to Hadley in your tournament thread...
You can't pay me to come to Hadley anymore and play. Bill earned my respect today and hoplefully this earns others too.

You guys are so fast to hold yourselves up to the highest degree of honor and shit. *gasp* Pretty much everyone is holding to the 'we announce it, it will be paid out philsophy now. The problem is simple freaking logistics, if every TO continues to lose money on events, eventually they simply won't have them, unless they enjoy being a charity organization.

In which case, heh. Kl0wn's post made better points than mine anyways, just read his until it really sinks in.

[Kowal]

Whoa whoa whoa.  It's become apparent here that I've got a lot more to say.

You said a lot of stuff here, much of it true.  And I already agreed with you.  Yes, I scheduled out of spite.  But you know what?  After like two days, I stopped caring about Lenox.  Yeah I was pissed, but it just didn't matter anymore.  I had more important stuff to worry about.  One comment you made REALLY rubbed me the wrong way, though.

Gives out meager prize support compared to the prizes at Lenox, despite entrance fee.

Um...  What the fuck?  I gave out a prize support worth more than I took in entries because Ryan allowed me to peddle some of my crappy cards in the store, which allowed us to give out extra prizes.

So let me get this straight.  I charge $10 a person, less than half of what Lenox charges, and I give out a Mox, and a Mana Drain, and a Berserk, and my prize structure isn't acceptable?  Well fuck you.

Today I chose to go to Lenox.  One the fact that I use Kowal's own spiteful resoning, thinking that, well Hadley is the bad guy here for posting on the same day as Lenox.

Granted.

Two Lenox lost money or barely made even on the first event and still stuck to prizes.

I think I already got to this.

Three a 2pm start time is silly.

I had a lot of requests from kids taking the SATs.  So sue me for catering to my tourneygoers.

Lenox had 8 people show up today.  All from CT to my knowledge.  No Myketog in attendance, a good supporter of Bill so far.  So now everyone, Kowal mostly, is going to gloat right?   We killed the event hooray!!   Wrong!  Not only was the tournament held with 8, yup eight, people for an Ancestral Recall.  After Bills proposal eight people agreed and played for the originaly proposed top 4 prizes.

Mykeatog didn't show because he would rather go to a tournament that was within a two minute drive.  Can you really blame him?  I certainly wouldn't want to shell out twenty five smackers and travel an extra hour out of my way.  Secondly, allow me to quote myself.  Same place you quoted me, so I know you saw it.

And the last factor could possibly not be here, and probably shouldn't be, but it's a factor anyway. Occasionally one will look at who's TOing a given event, and schedule on that day intentionally. I did this to Lenox because I was irritated about their scheduling the same day as the TMD Champs.


It's hard to mix morality with proper planning, but I think if we put a little effort towards keeping things cool with eachother in the future (and I'll be putting more effort forward as well) we should be in good shape despite having a little competition every so often.

Do you really think that "killing Lenox" is what I wanted to do yesterday?  Maybe when I first scheduled I was pissed off, but I already told you I don't care anymore.  It should have been pretty blatantly obvious I don't care anymore from there.

Kowal you called me out to Hadley in your tournament thread...
You can't pay me to come to Hadley anymore and play.  Bill earned my respect today and hoplefully this earns others too.

I guess I can't really complain, but it seems silly that after I publically admit I'm wrong to fuck with Lenox, to support the one that's
A) Further away
B) MUCH more expensive

Future Lenox dates:
Nov 13th
Dec 11th

I'm sure well see Hadley hosting events then too.

If those dates are the emptiest ones, so be it.  But I guess you just missed my entire fucking point, huh?

TO SUMMARIZE

I don't care about Lenox anymore.  It was a fixation of my dislike for two days, maybe three.

I think you're throwing a temper tantrum over something when you don't have enough of the information to base an educated opinion off.

If you don't want to support my tournaments, fine.  I'm not going to make you or pretend I can.  But considering I'm not interested in bad blood, it seems pretty stupid to go to something that costs less than half as much, and is like 45 minutes closer.

[Methuselahn]

I think whether you still feel spiteful or not doesn't really change the fact that you held the tourny on the same day and the guy still lost a bunch of money.

Money > Feelings.

I don't live in the New England area and am not affiliated with any sides here.  I still think healthy competition is totally acceptable.  Announcing that you do something out of spite is just poor judgement, imo.

Also, doesn't anybody hold events on Sunday in New England?  Is there some sort of sacred cow here?  In MN, it is unusual to hold a power tourny on a Saturday.  It must be some sort of anamoly.

[Kowal]

Well, today is Somers tournament for $500 or a Lotus, depending on attendance.  It's not a sacred cow, it's just a larger tournament that needs more support.

[Frappie]

ok so if I got this right the whiz got in the middle simply by posting their dates on the drain first? I understand that flyers were made, however the dates were not anywhere on the No. 1 T1 site in the US. Yeah theres a fucking problem with that. Whenever a fucking tournament is proposed even if its on a freaking flyer could the person that is in charge of posting on the drain put it into the fucking calendar.

Still fucking pissed about The Whiz. Still hate nobody. Will probably be at the next hadley.

[Apollyon]

A bunch of us went to Hadley, because in the words of Mykeatog:

I piss ten dollar bills.

After everything, I spent less than I would have had I walked to Lenox, and that was the deciding factor. I asked the people in my car if they wanted to go to The Whiz, but they wanted to go to Hadley.

I scrubbed out, but it was one of the best tournaments that I've been to in a long while, because everyone else went for a 10 dollar entry fee.

Lenox deserves props for keeping to their prize structure, even after they lost almost 350 dollars in it. Quite honestly, my opinion on Lenox is that 25 dollar entry fee is too much. Drop it to 10 or 15 bucks, and have the payout less spectacular, and I'll go.

I don't want to see bad blood starting to occur, as that benefits no one. Beyond a certain point, tournaments held because of bad blood start becoming about hating someone out, which removes it from what tournaments are supposed to be about: fun. If I wanted to go and play tournaments strictly for profit, and have to deal with a million assholes.

As is, if I could get enough people to PM me from either MA/NH area or the MA/RI area who wouldn't mind driving to either southern NH or RI, I would like to try to have a 5 dollar tournament for something small with mandatory Type 4 coolness and just to hang out.

I am sorry about The Whiz getting caught in the crossfire.

[kl0wn]

OK Frist of all I knew of the date at Lenox before the Endioctt tournament was ever scheduled.  Because news of the date wasn't posted on TMD, GOD FORBID, doesn't change the fact that the dates of the previous, and next three tournaments, that Lenox ran were set beofre Bryce picked his.

Not to keep beating a dead horse here, but if he didn't announce the date anywhere other than his store/scribbling it on the stalls of highway rest areas, it just doesn't count.

I would understand if he were just trying to get the locals to come and he just made the announcement to his store regulars IN HIS STORE. But he didn't.

His announcement went up on TMD 12 days after I made mine. Had I not spent almost a thousand non-refundable dollars on booking the venue at that point, I would've definitely pulled out and called the whole thing off. Not just because of the Lenox tournament, but also because of the gajillion Toronto tournaments going on that weekend as well...but that's not really relevent to this post.

My point is that since the Lenox event was being held in a store and not at a place that required hundreds of dollars down to reserve from a guy who most definitely had no other way to recoup losses from poor attendance other than a donation jar, he could've postponed his event or just not had his event posted to the extra-Lenox public that supposedly were going to TMDC3.

P.S. Highway rest areas are havens for homosexuals.

[The Atog Lord]

You guys are all looking at this the wrong way. Let the TOs fight with each other. When TOs fight YOU win.

Wrong, Brian.

In the short term, TO fighting might lead to TOs giving out large prizes for events with eight people. That won't last, however.

I remember when the only Type One events I could go to were at Origins. A number of years ago, I'd play Type One with friends, but there were very few places to find competitive events with decent prizes. Winning $30 in store credit for playing an entire day is not really worthwhile.

My fear, Brian, is that, should events continue to explode in the face of their organizer, we will be seeing fewer and fewer events. I like events doing well, because that means more events. It is better for the community, and better for me. I don't want to have to wait for Origins to play in a big event. I really like that fact that there's one here in New England every few weeks. But if TOs keep losing money, that won't last.

[hulk3rules]

Yesterday the players at Lennox got to play for 600 dollars worth of prizes and paid only 200 dollars combined entry.  Players in Hadley only had to pay 10 bucks and got to play for a Mox and a Mana drain.  It looks to me like the players won here.

I remember when T1 tournaments started up in NE and TOs would pocket a lot of money off the entrance fees.  I'm not going to take any direct shots and name who they were, but it was something they could do because there just weren't as many tournaments in NE.  So yeah- who cares if a TO is losing money one time at one of their tournaments.  If they cry about it and stop holding tournaments, somebody else will step up and take their place.  After all, there are at least ten different stores that want to be in the monthly tournament game here in NE

[Mykeatog]

Though I don't agree with TO's fighting with one another, I do think Brian has a point.

And Rich, as far as Stores not wanting to have events go; I don't think that matters. Waterbury will always exist, Mykeatog's Mox can happen again, Kowal will have a tournament in a back alley if that is how it has to be. One way or another, I think New England is beginning to have enough support for the format, that the stores are being forced to fight over our dollars.

I also don't agree with any TO directly trying to fuck over another one, and that is why I take care of Stokinger's business now.

As pissed as I got about Lenox getting blamed for a tournament that occurs 5 hours away 'draining' attendance, I wasn't angry when Ben fired back with this 10 dollar tournament.

Was Ben's tournament a good time, and a good investment for ben? Yes it was. he may have killed Lenox, but he also brought back the low cost event.  If New England has to become a cut throat place for the game, Kowal is a TO that will survive, I'll be fine, Terry would would fall off the map, Bill would struggle, and Ray will always thrive. I only named 5 TO's here- and I could already book every saturday for a month. There are 2 or 3 RI stores in the fight, 2 CT stores, and 2 NH stores as well. A vermont event brings the total up to 13 vendors; and I am still leaving a whole shit ton of people out.

Every other real format has to fight to get players to go to one store or another; and here we are... entering the big leagues.

This isn't really a players debate anymore, this is where the business end of the game needs to come together and work it out. As usual, I'll be here posting tournaments and holding events because it's what I do. I'll also be holding my gat; and firing at whoever shoots first.

[Pern]

Winning $30 in store credit for playing an entire day is not really worthwhile.

Yikes.

Lemme see, now.
Take your average $15 tournament, maybe 24 players.
Prizes to the top four, just to be generous,
although prize to the top one is more typical.
20 of those players are going to spend $15, plus, say,
$5 in transportation plus, say, $10 in digestibles,
and they'll all come home with, let's see, $0 in winnings.
That's how much I bring home most tournaments.

Let's hear that again, shall we?

Winning $30 in store credit for playing an entire day is not really worthwhile.

Oh, I feel much better now about paying for the prizes y'all win.
Thanks, Rich.

[Eastman]

Winning $30 in store credit for playing an entire day is not really worthwhile.

I play for fun.