[Deck] Hadley Cerebral Assassin, Fun + Winning = Awesome

[Zherbus]

Great, on to the discussion...

Why the Red element beyond Welders? It seems to me that the deck could benefit from more welding targets, so by changing to Glimmervoids and Seat of Synod you could can get 2 more artifacts. This also makes Memory Jar more reliable.

I wasn't sure what you'd need Rack and Ruins for if you're siding into Dragon mode (maybe you could answer that for me), so I figured that 4 Duress would make Dragon run smoother post-board when you only have 4 Force of Will to begin with. It might have worked nicely when noone saw the Dragon SB coming, but now that it's common knowledge, I'd be suprised to see you get away with it without extra disruption.

//28 Consistently Broken
4 Goblin Welder
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Animate Dead
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Force of Will
3 Triple H (sundering titan)
1 Triskelion

//9 Restrictedly Broken
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Memory Jar
1 Possessed Portal

//23 Mana
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
8 SoloCrypten
1 Mana Vault
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Seat of the Synod
3 Glimmervoid
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass

//Teh Dragon
SB: 4 Dragon
SB: 2 Ambassador
SB: 3 Necromancy
//Other stuff (still just guessing)
SB: 1 Beb
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 4 Duress

[leviat]

I agree with the updates that Z suggested, however, I think that cutting Intuition was the wrong choice. I think you should cut the Mystical Tutor instead because it seems a very weak tutor in this deck. It cannot fetch Bazaar, Welder, Animates, nor any artifact. Intuition can accomplish all of these things without causing any card disadvantage.

As a side note, I think this deck is a much better choice over the typical Workshop dec in heavy control environment because of it's ability to put threats into play with 1cc and 2cc cards (eg. limiting mana from Mana Drain) and it's strong redundancy.

Looking at how this deck plays out, it reminds me a little bit of the "DarkTnT" that Z promoted wayyyy back in the day, except that this looks a bit more resilient.

I think the weak point of this deck is it's somewhat fragile manabase. Unfortunately, fixing that would probably limit it's ability to hardcast the bigger threats and cause even more headaches when playing against GroundSeal.dec.

[JACO]

JACO:

What happened as far as moving to bazaars was this: During and on the way back from Gencon we were musing about adding some number of bazaars to a workshop deck, based on their obvious synergy with welder. As we started to shape what components the deck would have we realized that having workshops AND bazaars would be really ugly manawise, and decided to work with solely bazaars.

Originally we had crucible for protecting the bazaar and a lot more intuitions. It's been tweaked quite a bit to become the deck you see today.

Eastman, thanks for the clarification. I noticed that you have Tinker, because it's obviously the shit, but what do you find yourself Tinkering out in most cases? Just Sundering Titan and Triskelion? It seems like you really want Memory Jar in here, to go with the obvious synergy of the deck. What about cutting Mystical Tutor, which Leviat pointed out as the weakest tutor effect, for the Jar?

Also, in your various incarnations of testing, did you ever think of cutting one of the Sundering Titans (so 2 total) and something else weak (like the Mystical) for a couple more Intuitions? I know in Dragon this basically helps me tutor and set up Squees and so forth, so I wondered if you had configured the deck like that. You mentioned having multiple Intuitions before, but were they just not as effective as you wanted, too mana costly, or what?

[Eastman]

I've actually thought about changes like Z suggested for awhile. Particularly the 2 seats. Uncounterable welding is always a plus.

I'll try out glimmervoid, that does seem interesting. I know there are times when I don't have artifacts so it may be too risky.

Leviat/Jaco: Mystical is actually a lot stronger then you'd think in here. You usually have enough mana turn 2 to be casting a tutored up tinker, and any of the targets is devastating. With jar in the deck it'll be that much better.

Intuition may be a bit stronger than mystical, but it's SO much more expensive. It's definitely the first thing I'd cut. I'll try out jar in its place.


The manabase IS definitely the weakest part of the deck, in that everything is wasteable. Having more 5 color lands reduces the chances of being color screwed, so that if you have a land you'll be able to cast the spell. I like that.

Originally the manabase had 4 of each painland. The most I test the more I add the 5 color lands in. I hadn't yet tested Glimmervoid but I'll give it a shot.

[Mykeatog]

I wasn't sure if this question was answered by East, so I got it.

A quick note; in testing with Eastman, it seems that Triskelion is Tinkered for the most. Most decks play Welders, and trisk can kill those. Any other target is obviosuly dead against a Welder. I think that with the addition of Memory Jar there will be alot more tinkering for it's broken power, much like Dave said.

[Grand Inquisitor]

The real answer to the question, though, is whatever is most appropriate.  I know that sounds simplistic, but the deck doesn't really have an auto tinker play.  If it can't get titan in another way (which is rare), it goes for the threat; for removal it gets trike.  I was playing a game last night where I had good position with chalices down, a keg for his welders, and crucible/trinisphere going.  He tinkered in Portal, and his 2x squees were enough to race the crucible; I scooped.

To be fair, Animate Dead has been reanimating Xantid Swarms in Dragon for a long time (Swarm isn't Welder, but it's on the same power level), and the synergy between Bazaar and Welder has been explored before in weird MUD decks.

This is a good example of how the deck is being misinterpreted.

First, Xantid Swarm is no where near the power level of goblin welder.  Testimony of this is the 'best creature' thread that was up recently.  However, its almost an apt comparison because welder in and of itself, like Xantid, isn't really a threat.  You need to have the 'animate' target in order to make him worthwhile.  However, welder is much more potent, because 1) he can affect your opponent's artifacts and 2) unlike dragon, you don't need a 2nd animate effect once you find titan/portal/etc.  The reason why I was often frustrated playing dragon is because I'd have a clear path with Xantid Swarm, but couldn't find a (2nd) animate spell once I found dragon.

Second, VGB's thread is the only bazaar/welder thread I've seen thats gotten any kind of feedback.  I'm not going to pretend I'm aware of all of the content on this site, but I pay attention to event results, and spend a good amount of time in the forums, and I haven't seen this combination hardly at all.  More than this, CA has actually made the combination work with a deck that supports it, and is putting up results.

As for why to play this over some of the deck's HiVal mentioned:

When compared to Control Slaver or Meandeck Titan, this deck is flat out more aggressive.  It puts a tremendous amount of pressure on control decks in the early turns.  Much of this comes from the fact that it effectively runs 8 welders, and these decks are often overly dependent on getting him active.  On the other hand, the other two decks are more resilient to non-basic hate, and they pack more drawing and countering power.  Perhaps this is more of a playstyle issue than a 'better than' issue.

While I tried a version that was more of a lock deck like Stax (with workshops and more portals), it simply couldn't get off the ground because it was too clunky.

As far as the mana base, there used to be at least one seat of synod, and I can certainly see adding some back in.  However, as for glimmervoid, I think it would push the manabase even further towards the precipice.  The deck doesn't run enough artifacts to support this card with reliability.  Since Orchard is unacceptable (mostly because it nullifies titan), cities and gemstones are going to have to be it.[/i]

[Zherbus]

All references to argueing over discrediting the deck vs. questioning viability has been moved to here. Keep it there please.

[Thug]

I tried the deck a little (mainly to see if I had to prepare for it with other decks), but it gave me a little insight on the deck.

I have to say it busts out Titan like no other deck really can do so consistantly. But some card choices seemed pretty odd to me too:

Mana Vault: I always seemed to use it to cast Thirst, and that just ment I was taking Mana Burn and Vault damage all the time. The damage this deck inlicts on itselfs seems to add up pretty quick so personally I don't really like the Vault in this deck.

FoW: There were just too little cards to pitch most of the time, but I do think they are needed so the only solution seems adding some more blue cards.

Animate Dead: Often I felt like there was 1 animate too much, it really seems to be the weakest part of the broken cards, but cutting one does mean the Dragon sb makes less sence.

Intuition: I rarely had trouble findig and dumping a Titan, so the only use for this was getting squee's and pitching to FoW. For those uses is seems a little slow to me.

Mystical Tutor: I have never been a fan of Mystical->Ancestral in the early game, and this deck has pretty little other targets besides Ancestral. (Tinker and Will)

Gemstone Mine: If you Opponent has a wasteland for your other lands these really a fragile, I wonder if they could be replaced by some more painlands/artifact lands.

---

I wonder if any of the following cards have been tested?

Mind's Eye: This could be played instead of Jar (which didn't make the cut, right?) It really solid card draw, and I often wanted another artifact bomb aside from a stupid beater (no offense  )

Crucible: I really think this deck needs at least a single Crucible, mainly because it is insane with Bazaar. It allows you to dump land and drop them, and makes you reccur your Bazaars. The fact that it is an artifact makes it even better, I really think this deserves a spot, since Bazaar + Squee just wins games.

Compulsion: It's more of a Dragon-card but it still seems to make sense in the deck. It gives you an extra discard outlet, makes Squee slighlt better and is another card to pitch to FoW. It also is pretty good with the sideboard plan.

Koen

[Hi-Val]

As for why to play this over some of the deck's HiVal mentioned:

When compared to Control Slaver or Meandeck Titan, this deck is flat out more aggressive.  It puts a tremendous amount of pressure on control decks in the early turns.  Much of this comes from the fact that it effectively runs 8 welders, and these decks are often overly dependent on getting him active.  On the other hand, the other two decks are more resilient to non-basic hate, and they pack more drawing and countering power.  Perhaps this is more of a playstyle issue than a 'better than' issue.

See, I don't see it that way. Titan can bust out a Sundering Titan by turn 3 reliably, thanks to the rawdog power of Intuition. I can grant this deck can probably do the same, though I would like to see numbers. Requiring a Bazaar drop and then either a Welder or mana to Animate Dead puts us back to the third turn, on par with Meandeck Titan.

As someone who has played Titan decks for a long time, I'll give you some advice that I found to be true with Meandeck Titan as well: it's really hard to answer the board. I usually roll to Chalice 1 and this seems to die horribly to Ground Seal. Outside of the absurdly slow Portal method of taking it out, how else do you get around these things? In a similar vein, Blood Moon seems to be a wrecking ball.

The strength that I see in this deck is an uncounterable draw engine. Instead of putting out early Titans, this seems to be better at inevitability than Meandeck Titan might be and more guaranteed than D4RG0N. Taking that into consideration, it seems like Intuition is the card you want to run nine of. It gets Squees, Bazaar, Animates, artiFAT, etc. I see Intuition as how you really pound out the midgame to lategame.

Also, I have to echo the call for Crucible. It seems busted here. With a deck so reliant on Bazaar, I'd call it a necessity. What did you replace it with? Have you been satisfied with the replacement?

[Diaonic]

Now I haven’t tested this deck that much, I did build it and play 5 or 6 games and I really love the idea of it. My biggest concern is obviously the tendrils combo match up and making mono-u a better match up. Because let’s face it, if they drop Back to Basics on you, It shuts down the deck if you don’t already have a threat in play


//Teh Dragon
 SB: 4 Dragon
 SB: 2 Ambassador
 SB: 3 Necromancy
 //Other stuff (still just guessing)
 SB: 1 Beb
 SB: 1 Echoing Truth
 SB: 4 Duress


After looking at the board that Zherbus suggested, what about replacing the 4x Duress and putting in 4x Chalice.

Obviously this is not going to make your game one Vs. mono-u or tendrils any better, but after boarding when you bring in 4x chalice, you potentially shut off about 22 cards in mono-u and chalice for 0 or 1 against tendrils is a house.

The reason I stress the tendrils match up is because that’s the only combo deck that should be feared, game 1 against dragon if you are playing welders and titans and game two you start animating there dragons, they are not going to know what hit them. So you can really play around that match up.

[Dante]

I'm still REALLY concerned about this deck's chances against fast combo decks.  Having played Dragon (with 4 Fow maindeck, 4 Chalice and 3 Null Rod side), that build was even with TPS and deathlong and belcher were still tough.  So when this deck only has the same 4 Forces and then only 4 Duress in the side (or 4 Chalice, etc), it seems that these matches would not be favorable (at least not deathlong and belcher).

@ Diaonic - in a non-workshop deck, are you going to reliably get Chalice for 2 out turn 1?  turn 2?  Probably not and that's when you need to have it out vs mono-blue.

Bill

[Grand Inquisitor]

See, I don't see it that way. Titan can bust out a Sundering Titan by turn 3 reliably, thanks to the rawdog power of Intuition

Ok, we're really close here.  The biggest difference is that a typical (good) CA opening goes like this:

T1: land, welder
T2: bazaar (dump titan), mox, weld

Meandeck titan can operate at a similar speed by casting intuition on turn two (with acceleration).

The difference is that CA's 'dump spell' is uncounterable, and it runs 8 ways to get the titan into play instead of 4 for meandeck titan.  That really isn't a subtle difference once you've played the deck a lot and seen the results against different matchups, especially control.

Crucible: I really think this deck needs at least a single Crucible, mainly because it is insane with Bazaar. It allows you to dump land and drop them, and makes you reccur your Bazaars. The fact that it is an artifact makes it even better, I really think this deserves a spot, since Bazaar + Squee just wins games.

I've been pushing crucible since the start, but Dave keeps finding cards he likes in slots he's not willing to give up.  Given that the deck's been playing in an environment loaded with strip effects he must have some rationale for it.  The lock version I was working on ran a 4x crucible (as the other way to sustain portal), and they were great at sustaining the manabase, locking my opponent (I ran 5x strip), and keeping my draw engine going.

[Rico Suave]

To be fair, Animate Dead has been reanimating Xantid Swarms in Dragon for a long time (Swarm isn't Welder, but it's on the same power level), and the synergy between Bazaar and Welder has been explored before in weird MUD decks.

This is a good example of how the deck is being misinterpreted.

First, Xantid Swarm is no where near the power level of goblin welder.  Testimony of this is the 'best creature' thread that was up recently.  However, its almost an apt comparison because welder in and of itself, like Xantid, isn't really a threat.  You need to have the 'animate' target in order to make him worthwhile.  However, welder is much more potent, because 1) he can affect your opponent's artifacts and 2) unlike dragon, you don't need a 2nd animate effect once you find titan/portal/etc.  The reason why I was often frustrated playing dragon is because I'd have a clear path with Xantid Swarm, but couldn't find a (2nd) animate spell once I found dragon.

I was merely pointing out that the one of the "benefits" of playing this deck, reanimating a win-now creature, is already practiced in Dragon.  The reason I called them the same power level is because with it you just untap and win.  That's considerably powerful.

Anyway, I still haven't seen an explanation for the points I brought up earlier and why this deck would be advantageous over Dragon in those areas.  Is there an explanation?

[Eastman]

Anyway, I still haven't seen an explanation for the points I brought up earlier and why this deck would be advantageous over Dragon in those areas.  Is there an explanation?

I answered a question earlier as to what advantages this has over dragon. I'll quote my earlier comment:

Quite a few. TFK is much better then the secondary draw dragon runs, and the ability to run tinker and particularly yawgmoth's will makes the deck a BEAST in the late game. Also your welders greatly disrupt opponent's artifacts, which dragons' dances do not.

On top of all that, animating a titan into a swords to plowshares is actually an excellent move, and gives you a tremendous advantage. The same is far from true for Dragon.

I hope that answers your question rico. If not, can you clarify what you're asking?

I'm still REALLY concerned about this deck's chances against fast combo decks

You're right to be concerend. Fast(er) combo is probably the biggest achilles heel of the deck. Don't get me wrong, combo isn't unwinnable because you DO have answers, a lot of tutors, and a fast clock, but it is certainly harder then nearly anything else for CA to beat.


@Hi-Val
CA has more slots devoted to spitting out titans then does Meandeck Titan, and fewer devoted to doing blue things. As such, it does as Koen says 'bust out more titans than any other deck'. The difference is that while it's better at getting the titan into play and messing with the opponents mana/welders, it isn't as good at tripping up the opponents strategy with counters.

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

Just a quick question.....has anyone tried Kumano in place of laquatus in the board? It kills welders for good, and it gets around platz with mad ease. You run 4 city 4 mine and 3 reef, so it's not like getting red will be a huge problem (although the pain might be an issue). It doesn't pitch to FoW so that may be a problem as well. If you add glimmervoids, you can support kumano even more.

-Bob

[Razvan]

Just a quick question.....has anyone tried Kumano in place of laquatus in the board? It kills welders for good, and it gets around platz with mad ease. You run 4 city 4 mine and 3 reef, so it's not like getting red will be a huge problem (although the pain might be an issue). It doesn't pitch to FoW so that may be a problem as well. If you add glimmervoids, you can support kumano even more.

-Bob

I was also wondering this (since Shivan Hellkite was suggested in old Dragon builds, and it would be by far the best kill condition, if supported), and kills this turn, as opposed to the next (more or less).

4 city, 4 mine, 3 reef (1 Ruby) is more than enough to support anything red.

[Rico Suave]

Anyway, I still haven't seen an explanation for the points I brought up earlier and why this deck would be advantageous over Dragon in those areas.  Is there an explanation?

I answered a question earlier as to what advantages this has over dragon. I'll quote my earlier comment:

Quite a few. TFK is much better then the secondary draw dragon runs, and the ability to run tinker and particularly yawgmoth's will makes the deck a BEAST in the late game. Also your welders greatly disrupt opponent's artifacts, which dragons' dances do not.

On top of all that, animating a titan into a swords to plowshares is actually an excellent move, and gives you a tremendous advantage. The same is far from true for Dragon.

I hope that answers your question rico. If not, can you clarify what you're asking?

Nope, I'll quote myself too:

1) It had a lot of conditional cards. Your Squees aren't really good without Bazaar, your Welders aren't good without something to weld (only 5 things to weld), large artifacts are generally uncastable unless you have an outlet, Animate Dead is useless if you have Welder out (which is NOT automatically a winning position), Force doesn't have consistent support, etc. None of those by themselves are major points, but they do add up.

2) Only 4 Force of Will for disruption, which wouldn't be so bad except for my next point.

3) For T1 standards, the deck is slow. You're giving your opponent a lot of free roam to do whatever they please.

4) No basics, and no way to fight Blood Moon/B2B/Crucible aside from hoping to draw Moxen or the already mentioned inconsistent Force.

5) First turn Trinisphere.

Ultimately, I compare this most to Dragon. The first question that I asked myself when I saw this deck was "why aren't they maindecking Dragon and SB'ing into this?" I know that this deck can do things Dragon can't, but so what? Dragon does a lot of things this deck doesn't, and the things Dragon does better are arguably more important (see the above points).

Hopefully that clarifies my question.

[Eastman]

Anyway, I still haven't seen an explanation for the points I brought up earlier and why this deck would be advantageous over Dragon in those areas.  Is there an explanation?

I answered a question earlier as to what advantages this has over dragon. I'll quote my earlier comment:

Quite a few. TFK is much better then the secondary draw dragon runs, and the ability to run tinker and particularly yawgmoth's will makes the deck a BEAST in the late game. Also your welders greatly disrupt opponent's artifacts, which dragons' dances do not.

On top of all that, animating a titan into a swords to plowshares is actually an excellent move, and gives you a tremendous advantage. The same is far from true for Dragon.

I hope that answers your question rico. If not, can you clarify what you're asking?

Nope, I'll quote myself too:

1) It had a lot of conditional cards. Your Squees aren't really good without Bazaar, your Welders aren't good without something to weld (only 5 things to weld), large artifacts are generally uncastable unless you have an outlet, Animate Dead is useless if you have Welder out (which is NOT automatically a winning position), Force doesn't have consistent support, etc. None of those by themselves are major points, but they do add up.

2) Only 4 Force of Will for disruption, which wouldn't be so bad except for my next point.

3) For T1 standards, the deck is slow. You're giving your opponent a lot of free roam to do whatever they please.

4) No basics, and no way to fight Blood Moon/B2B/Crucible aside from hoping to draw Moxen or the already mentioned inconsistent Force.

5) First turn Trinisphere.

Ultimately, I compare this most to Dragon. The first question that I asked myself when I saw this deck was "why aren't they maindecking Dragon and SB'ing into this?" I know that this deck can do things Dragon can't, but so what? Dragon does a lot of things this deck doesn't, and the things Dragon does better are arguably more important (see the above points).

Hopefully that clarifies my question.

Your criticisms are very similar to those that people first applied to dragon.

Point 1: For instance, squee.

This deck runs Bazaar, and Thirst for Knowledge. The need for Squees should be obvious. I won't expound on that point except to state again that this deck runs Bazaar of Baghdad, and Thirst for Knowledge.


Points 2/3: Your points 2/3 I have a hard time 'answering.' The deck isn't slow. It jams out titans faster than anything else that has been built.  It does give your opponent a few turns to win, such that if the titan doesn't slow them down combo is fairly likely to get some chances to go off. This question has already been raised (albeit more directly and obviously with more attention paid to being constructive) and there is a simple answer. CA's biggest problem is fast combo.  This is not a unique problem. Fast aggro, regardless of its disruption, has always had a problem with faster clocks that have resiliency sufficient to win through a few force of wills or LD spells.

Point 4: Right, there are no basics. Against blood moon you need moxen/force or the ability to get the titan in play first. This hurts your chances of winning a small amount against the small amount of decks that have blood moon. Point conceded. I would amend your statement to 'no hope except drawing force, moxen, or a way to get the big guy in play before blood moon hits or with a land drop under crucible.'

Point 5: First turn trinisphere.

I've got several rack and ruins in the board, sometimes you can kill first turn trinisphere.

That doesn't change the fact that a first turn trinisphere is arguably the strongest play currently available in our format. Every deck, including those running trinispheres, have a hard time dealing with an opponents first turn trinisphere. The comment regarding this decks interaction with it is superflous. The fact is every deck in the format is just going to lose to it sometimes. This is why all manner of decks running workshops and trinispheres have popped up in top 8's.

[Eastman]

It's about time I gave you all an update on what's been going on with this deck. A few points:

1. Fewer lands/Careful Study: I've cut two lands for two careful study. This is the result of playtesting just showing this is what works. Think of them like brainstorm in control. They help the deck run. A lot of more powerful cards (intuition/wheel) could go in these slots, but in these slots it isn't about power, it's about casting cost. They work well in the deck and help pay for FoW.

2. Shiny new SB: After posting the deck, I obviously had to cut the conversional sb (once people know to bring in GY hate instead of artifact hate the dragon is pointless). The SB now allows the deck to convert to an optimal creature base in much the same way meandeck oath does. This also gives room for some necessary answers like Rack and Ruin and Ray of Revelation. Ray of Revelation features awesome b2b and Oath blowing up power, flashes back (so you can use it through counters or pitch it to bazaar) and conveniently takes out the ground seals that are this decks greatest enemy (outside of 3sphere/crucible which I agree is just broken)

3. Plat in the maindeck: Combo was enough of a problem that I tweaked the deck to fit in plat.

4. I'm 16-0 in Swiss decisions: that's right. I've played CA in four power tournies now (all between 32 and ~40 people) and have posted absolutely GAUDY numbers in swiss. I've also made the finals in two of those tournies, half the times I've played the deck. Why am I telling you this? It is evidence that maybe CA isn't the pile you thought it was.

5. The Hundroog: What can I say, Hundroog is tech. You can cycle it into the yard (cycling is an ability that allows you to discard the card to draw another one) and animate it. Also with 8 4-color lands in the deck you hardcast him turn 1 at least 91% of the time.  He's great at blocking opposing noble panthers and thanks to the 'droog' I WILL NEVER LOSE TO AN ARTIFACT BASED DECK EVER!!!!!.


Alright, enough of that - here's the new 'optimal list' (note that it is mildly different then what I played in Hadley--- this is because I'm kinda busy and didn't have the chance to get all the cards I needed)

Cerebral Assassin (I know you hate the name, call it CA or 'assassin' for short)

engine
4 Animate Dead
4 Goblin Welder
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Thirst For Knowledge
2 Careful Study

current creature base
3 Sundering Titan
1 Triskelion
1 Platinum Angel  

sehr broken
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Hundroog
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Possessed Portal
4 Force of Will

manas
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Tolarian Academy  
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
1 Shivan Reef
2 Underground River


SB
Make your creature base good in that matchup
2 Triskelion
2 Pentavus
2 Platinum Angel
hate their sb hate for you/try desperately to beat trinisphere
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Rack and Ruin
3 Ray of Revelation
 
EDIT: In case it's not obvious, I'm joking about the Hundroog.


I should mention that when I say 'try desperately to beat trinisphere' I don't mean to say that CA has a PARTICULARLY bad matchup against decks with trinisphere (you'll find 5/3 is pretty positive actually) I'm just saying that trinisphere is broken, and everything has to worry about it.


So that's where I stand, any thoughts?

[jpmeyer]

Since you aren't running the Dragon combo any more, would Reanimate have a place over Animate Dead or do you get into too many race situations?

[Eastman]

Since you aren't running the Dragon combo any more, would Reanimate have a place over Animate Dead or do you get into too many race situations?

Well it isn't so much 'race situations' (though obviously that plays into it) as low life totals you generate all by yourself. With 4X city AND painlands in the deck, you do yourself a lot of damage in a hurry. In longer games it isn't uncommon to burn yourself for 15+ points.  With most creatures that you want to animate (except welders obviously) being tons of mana, it really just adds up much too fast.

[Eastman]

I updated my CA list this week further from what I've used in the past and marched through another undefeated day of Swiss play yesterday at Mykeatog's mox, only to lose to Oath in the top 8 because I pulled the plat  expecting to pretty much only play against slaver.


I should mention now in case it isn't clear that Control Slaver has a poor matchup against CA.



Here also is an updated decklist.

Cerebral Assassin (I know you hate the name, call it CA or 'assassin' for short)

engine
4 Animate Dead
4 Goblin Welder
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
3 Thirst For Knowledge
2 Intuition A lot of people run more. It's tremendous in this deck.

current creature base
3 Sundering Titan
1 Triskelion
1 Platinum Angel

sehr broken
1 Balance try it
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Possessed Portal
4 Force of Will

manas
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
1 Shivan Reef
1 Underground River
1 Seat of the Synod

SB

1 Triskelion
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Rack and Ruin
3 Ray of Revelation

[Hi-Val]

Eastman, this looks REALLY sweet. Is there anything to be cut for Intuition #3? It seems like it'd be a little better than Mystical and I'd want to see one every single game. Rays off the board are a good answer to Ground Seal as well. What do you think about Reanimate instead of Animate Dead as well? I like the smaller cost and the smaller danger of losing your fattie to enchantment hate, but I don't know if that situation comes up often enough. Finally, have you thought about Bosh? I take the suggestion from the Extended version of this deck. Being able to Bosh a Titan at someone looks really strong, as well as having Boshing answers to Plat, Oath, etc. What do you think?

EDIT: How good is Will really in this deck? I liken it to Dargon, in which Will sucks even outside of the bad dragon interaction. It seems like, strangely, the weak link.

[Kowal]

I actually feel the exact same way, and have been struggling to put words to exactly why I don't like it.

[Smmenen]

Eastman, I saw several players playing CA in the waterbury and for a while, they were near the top tables.  Did you play CA?  If not, do you know what happened to them?  What sort of issues and difficulties were the facing?

[Eastman]

Hi-Val's comments above

Room for more Intuition
Mystical could go Hi-Val, and make room for a 3rd Intuition. Mystical basically only gets Tinker and Will, but considering that Intuition often functions just as well as those cards, I could see the replacement.

Reanimate Dead?
Reanimate has been brought up before and it could definitely work. The deck is very suicidal though (with 4 cities and painlands) and I feel like the life loss would be great enough that it just isn't worth it - that is in a game where your manabase is mostly cities, you'd kill yourself much too quickly. Reanimating multiple titans is also nearly impossible.

That being said, it's also a lot cheaper (come on this is type 1, 1 and 2 are different worlds) and I haven't even bothered to test it based on the reasons I gave above. Perhaps I am wrong, I encourage you to try it.

Will
Yawg will is really broken in here. Kowal doesn't seem to think so, and we argued just this point for quite awhile yesterday. I'll say here what I told him. I am as sure that  Will belongs in CA as I am that Ancestral Recall costs blue mana.

Bosh
That's a really terrific idea. He's big and cool as it is (a faster clock than titan), and can shoot down Angels of Wrath. I'll try cutting a titan for one.

Waterbury + CA

Actually I did not play CA at Waterbury. I would have loved to, but I didn't have the cards.

My twin brother came along and I needed to build two decks out of my card pool. The two complete decks I could build were Slaver (well slaver/hulk etc.) and CA.

So I gave my brother the easier deck to play (CA) and played Slaver myself.

I don't know how the CA players at waterbury did. I also saw quite a few in the top tables during rounds 4/5 but apparently they didn't get much further than that.

My brother went undefeated through the first 3 rounds, but didn't finish out strongly enough to make top 16. He's an inexperienced player and I think between that and the pressure he started making a lot of mistakes that at that point you cannot get away with.

Is there anyone who did play CA at Waterbury who can tell how they did/what issues they had?

[Hi-Val]

I played CA at Wbury with Meandeck Tendrils in round 6 or something, it was an interesting game. I think he got Trinisphere or Chalice out and I stalled.

As far as Reanimate goes, one of the best reasons it looks like to run it would be that it makes Titan kill a turn faster. The life loss seems negligible really against noncombo decks and casting it a turn earlier than Animate would really speed it up, it seems.

[dicemanx]

In the final round at Waterbury, I was playing beside this kid who was piloting CA against some GAT variant. They were playing for top 16, and it came down to the third game. The GAT player presented a 62 card deck/13 card SB, so should have lost the match, but the CA kid decided to settle it in a more honorable way and allowed his opponent to correct his mistake. Long story short, CA didn't make top 16 .

Just wondering about the creature base: any consideration to Memnarch instead of Bosh? Memnarch handles Platinum Angel along with a whole host of non-creature permanents, and is a decent win condition for Dragon if you run the conversion out of the board (or if you want to run a lone WGD main for kicks).

[ELD]

From my experiance with Slaver vs that kind of list, Possessed Portal is the whole deck.  I'm not saying that in a bad way at all.  I think it's a tremendous card, and a brutal efficient lock.  My point is the only time I've lost to CA is when portal hit.  Titan is too easy to handle.  If there is anything that could be done to make portal hit more consistantly, IMO that is the direction the deck needs to head in.  For that reason, I really like Pentavus as well.  Being able to sustain the portal lock with him is devestating.  

I've really enjoyed my games vs the CA list with the dragon combo main.  That deck is a party, and it is very fast.  It's ability to play so many differant ways is really strong IMO.

[ctthespian]

From my experiance with Slaver vs that kind of list, Possessed Portal is the whole deck.  I'm not saying that in a bad way at all.  I think it's a tremendous card, and a brutal efficient lock.  My point is the only time I've lost to CA is when portal hit.  Titan is too easy to handle.  If there is anything that could be done to make portal hit more consistantly, IMO that is the direction the deck needs to head in.  For that reason, I really like Pentavus as well.  Being able to sustain the portal lock with him is devestating.  

I've really enjoyed my games vs the CA list with the dragon combo main.  That deck is a party, and it is very fast.  It's ability to play so many differant ways is really strong IMO.

My thoughts exactly.  That's why I run 3 Intuitions and I'm thinking of running 4.  Intuition is like demonic tutor X3 with animates and welders.  People aren't hating the graveyard and until they do this deck should be a force to contend with.  Intuition, for Portal, Squee, Squee is awsome with welder in play.

The dragon combo main is also incredible.  Aside from being a fast win, it's a win that can come from nowhere.  1 intuition can make you win with the dragon main.  I had one match in a tournament where my oponent was convinced I was playing dragon based on our game 1.  When he saw welders in game 2 he was totally confused.

-Keith