English Pet Peeves

[jpmeyer]

Linguistically speaking, African-American Vernacular English is technically a dialect, even if it isn't socially accepted as one.

[Matt]

The Dutch not only understand it, they use English in this way.

That's because the Dutch have no choice.  

Also, anyone who uses "grey" should be shot.

[Bram]

I think it's funny how Bram has 6 (!) posts in here complaining about the english language and its misuse, making up well over 20% of the whole topic.

I just tend to get pissed off at things rather quickly.

The Dutch not only understand it, they use English in this way.

That's because the Dutch have no choice.  

...unlike the Swedes Dan mentioned in this very example, whose native tongue is ofcourse spoken the world over, you mean?

Also, anyone who uses "grey" should be shot.

While I'm all for random executions, I feel the need to point out that 'grey' is a perfectly acceptable alternative to 'gray'. As a matter of fact, 'grey' is the elder variant of the two as it has been used in Britain for centuries (hence 'greyhound'). The distinction between British 'grey' and American 'gray' probably developed in the 20th century, likely due to US inhabitants who couldn't spell worth shit

[dandan]

I kind of like 'grey'. Then again I like 'amongst' and 'whilst' (I would bet a lot of money that I am TMD's leading [if not only] user of these words).

I must admit I tend to use 'gray'

Google says 'Gray cast iron' 403 000 matches
'Grey cast iron' 401 000 matches

Holy more-nearly-a-dead-heat-than-the-presidential-election!!

[Bram]

Dandan: look here (my third post), here, and here (my first post on the third page). There's another one in the mod lounge, but linking to that one would be somewhat useless. The last thread I mentioned sees me using 'whilst' as well (and again: an occurance in the Screening Council which most of you can't see).

I'm rather fond of these mildly archaic terms, too, and enjoy putting them to use.

[dandan]

Bram - as the unelected leader of TOPIC I hope you noted Morefling's admission of guilt earlier in this thread, therefore allowing me to freely use references to that fine set of 3 Magic cards that are sadly not allowed in Type I nor included in the otherwise excellent MTGPics site.

On a marginally English-realted note, in ivory-tower scientist circles is it still acceptable to use datum/data or has the 20th Century use of the word data caught on yet? I ask because I occasionally get asked to correct papers for the local astronomical institute (there being a local shortage of native English speakers who have a clue about anything scientific) and apart from making borderline judgements on the use of the word 'the' I frequently have to correct the use of 'data' as a plural.

[Bram]

Yes, I noticed. I had already declared you the winner in some other thread.

Hmm. Interesting. Aside from the fact that 'datum' is the dutch word for 'date' (as in 'a specific combination of day/month/year' rather than 'a social event'), the english word 'datum' is a different beast altogether.

'Datum' (latin plural: data) is ofcourse a latin word, orginating from 'dare' (to give; pronounce 'DAHrey') and hence meaning 'something that is given'. In scientific english, 'datum' is acceptable, if archaic, in reference to 'a fact that one can draw conclusions from'. For example: a collection of statistics is data (as in: if I goldfish a deck three hundred times to determine during which turn I win, the turn in which I won on the nth interation is 'datum'). Its plural form is obviously 'data', strictly meaning a collection of 'datums'.

In the scientific world the singular noun 'datum' is more widely used however (and hence less archaic) as a 'point of reference' (on, say, a map). In this case, the correct plural form is actually 'datums'!

Modern-day use of the word 'data' tends to ignore these etymological roots by and large, however. From a site:

Sometimes scientists think of data as plural, as in These data do not support the conclusions. But more often scientists and researchers think of data as a singular mass entity like information, and most people now follow this in general usage. Sixty percent of the Usage Panel accepts the use of data with a singular verb and pronoun in the sentence Once the data is in, we can begin to analyze it. A still larger number, 77 percent, accepts the sentence We have very little data on the efficacy of such programs, where the quantifier very little, which is not used with similar plural nouns such as facts and results*, implies that data here is indeed singular.

Cool, huh?

*= Obviously, the quantifier of choice for these plural nouns would be 'few'. Seriously, I don't understand what people find so friggin' difficult about the english language ;-)

[EDIT] Hence, if the astronomical papers you need to correct use 'datums' in relation to the location or coordinate of a star, it's actually correct!

[EDIT] In Dutch, 'data', besides being the plural form for 'a date', is additionally an obvious anglicism, since we can use this word to signify the same thing the english do. This gives rise to the amusing situation where we have a word whose plural form does not by any means indicate a collection of the things its singular form indicates.

[dandan]

It seems you have difficulty with capital letters.

English

Of course if you wrote 'holland' we could accept that as a social comment on how the Dutch see themselves in the world.

I was talking about data=information. Most of the papers relate to the sun and so position is usually ignored. You have no idea how hard it is to use the word 'the' correctly in a consistent manner (as in specific vs. general references for example [and not from an astronomical paper] 'The Germans are a race with no sense of humour' vs. 'Germans are a race with no sense of humour') Incidently I have met Germans with a sense of humour so don't take anything I say as being my point of view, even if it is.

[Bram]

Yes, capitalizing country-specific words is difficult for me. I seriously never know if I need to (even in Dutch!) and when I look it up, I learn the rule by heart and forget about it in about five minutes. Also: capitalizing or capitalising? Similar problem for me (though in Dutch, this never comes up).

[jpmeyer]

While I'm all for random executions, I feel the need to point out that 'grey' is a perfectly acceptable alternative to 'gray'. As a matter of fact, 'grey' is the elder variant of the two as it has been used in Britain for centuries (hence 'greyhound'). The distinction between British 'grey' and American 'gray' probably developed in the 20th century, likely due to US inhabitants who couldn't spell worth shit

Interestingly, American English (espescially in the Midwest) is supposed to be more like Old English than British English.

Also: capitalizing or capitalising? Similar problem for me (though in Dutch, this never comes up).

z's are American, s's are British.  There are a ton of other words like this.  I know that I personally write "grey," "theatre," and "catalogue" rather than "gray," "theater," and "catalog."  But I'll also write "minimize," "capitalize," "artifact," and "encyclopedia" rather than "minimise," "capitialise," "artefact," and "encyclopaedia."

[Bram]

z's are American, s's are British.

I suspected as much, but never knew for sure. Thanks. Also: I too mix up the various variants based on what looks better to me. I imagine something like 'artifact' is mildly infuenced by our favorite game.

[Zherbus]

Oh, also abbreviating abbreviations.

For instance, abbreviating '4cC' even more as 4c.

[jpmeyer]

I imagine something like 'artifact' is mildly infuenced by our favorite game.

In much the same way that "grey" is influenced by my favorite tea, I'd assume.

[Azhrei]

Linguistically speaking, African-American Vernacular English is technically a dialect, even if it isn't socially accepted as one.

I take a huge steaming SHIT on your dialect.

[Matt]

then/than

[CrazyCarl]

The fact that so much time and energy is wasted complaining over errors that don't take away from the meaning of a writing.

Now Ebonics and major spelling/grammatical errors, yes, h8 h8 at those.

Actually I love ebonics, but I can see how it would piss people off.

[Azhrei]

The fact that so much time and energy is wasted complaining over errors that don't take away from the meaning of a writing.

Sounding like a fucking idiot takes a lot away from your meaning.

[CrazyCarl]

The fact that so much time and energy is wasted complaining over errors that don't take away from the meaning of a writing.

Sounding like a fucking idiot takes a lot away from your meaning.

Touche, salesman.

[wuaffiliate]

One of the dumb ass bitches at work says "brung" as opposed to "brought". That pisses me off to no end, this is a telemarketing firm, yes thats right they hired someone who cannot speak properly. The dumb ass has terrible pronunciation, i correct her constantly which always ends up in a fun story to tell.

[dandan]

I would just like to thank the English language for waving a big bright 'I am a complete idiot' flag over a large number of posts here at TMD. It saves me having to read the decklists to see if there is anything of note in the post. I soon noticed that people too stupid to write were almost always incapable of producing groundbreaking stategy or even 'tech'.

Mise

Whilst I consider myself above average intelligence, it heartens me to see proof on a daily basis.

[thorme]

From Alfred who cannot post in this thread:

Things I find EXTREMELY irritating are the misuse of the words wrath and wreck. For example it is wreak havok, not wreck havok (this makes absolutely no sense). Also, people who think wraiths are wraths are extremely irritating.

[st00mie]

In my area, people have a very difficult time understanding that they "won a game," or "beat their opponent."  Every time I hear some hick fuck say "I won him in a game!" I feel blood vessels in my forehead explode.

[TracerBullet]

The classic English pet peeve: Irish people.

[MuzzonoAmi]

I should throw potatos at you for that.

Even more off-topic, directed primarily at those fluent in German: How annoying are case errors made by non-native speakers considered? I tend to do that alot.

But excessive use of 1337 can bother me. That and people who feel the need to write things like u instead of you, or no instead of know.

[jpmeyer]

I should throw potatos at you for that.

Even more off-topic, directed primarily at those fluent in German: How annoying are case errors made by non-native speakers considered? I tend to do that alot.

But excessive use of 1337 can bother me. That and people who feel the need to write things like u instead of you, or no instead of know.

Like mixing up genitive/accusative/nominative?

[MuzzonoAmi]

It's more dative/accusitive, but yeah.

[Zherbus]

The classic English pet peeve: Irish people.

Grrrrr...

[dandan]

Most case mistakes are accusative/nominative IMHO

[TracerBullet]

Oh, comon, my name is Patrick Joseph O'Malley Pearce...  Of course, my grandfather is as limey as they come, so all my self-loathing and years of psychotherapy come from him.  You know the worst part about being Irish/English?  The food.  My people didn't invent a damned thing that actually tastes good, and decided that potatoes go good with EVERY FUCKING MEAL ON THE PLANET.

[MuzzonoAmi]

Well, they are.