Goose
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« on: November 03, 2004, 07:45:42 am » |
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Without new players, we'd all be a bunch of old guys turning paper on it's side.
I have a friend who is very interested in learning this game. I also share some excitement in sharing this fun game with someone new. She does not have any CCG experience, so this will be her first card game. She is 20, a fan of Harry Potter, and fantasy games & books. I've been playing this since 95'. I have tried to get 2 other "new" people to play this game. They were interested for about a month, then the interest died. Perhaps I approached them wrong. I introduced them to this game as being:
"A card game by which you use cards from a deck to defeat your opponent with."
Our games were always long, drawn-out, and climatic. Always going down to 4-5 life and a large graveyard. I intentionally made errors (to show them the right/wrong ways to use cards), as well as pointed out various (but not ALL) of the options a person can do in certain situations (like attacking with certain, but not all of your creatures... and how 2 cards work to help each other in combinations).
Eventhough the games we played were fun, they lost interest in Magic after about a month. Being a T1 guy, I was always in the mentality in Card-Advantage, Benefits vs Risks, and Calculations. On the other half, my friends were exploring the basics of gameplay fundamentals (Land, Cast, Attack). And perhaps I tried to rush them into advanced techniques too quickly. Something I would like to avoid with this person who I am tutoring.
As of this moment, I assembled a VERY basic, R/G casual deck for her to use (which happens to be my 1st deck). I have tried to use the most diversified, basic, effective cards in this compilation. The purpose of the deck is to teach the game. I have intentionally left out things such as: "Flashback", "Flanking", "Cycling", "Madness", and all that other garbage. I want to really hit the basics about creatures, spells, and simple abilities.
Here is the deck for an "Apprentice":
Creatures (18): 4x Llanowar Elves (Acceleration) I think everyone who has played MTG, has played this card. 1x Scryb Sprites (Flying) Basic flying goes over walls.
1x Elvish Warrior (Basic) Basic Power/Toughness. 1x Elvish Ranger (Basic) Basic Over-Power/Weak-Toughness.
1x Storm Shaman (Pump) 0/4 with firebreathing. 1x Fire Drake (Flying) 1/2 Flying Dragon with a little spurt. 1x Uthden Troll (Regeneration) I may never kill this thing throughout all our games. 1x Halberdier (First Strike) Teaching that a 1 toughness doens't matter. 1x FTK (Comes-Into-Play) Teaching the effectiveness of a 2-for-1. 1x Anaba Shaman (Targeting Damage) Teaching the effectiveness of an Independant Damage Source. 1x King Cheeta (Instant Speed Casting) Teaches that instant speed will kill. 1x Anarchist (Recursion) To Re-Use the FIREBALL. 1x Barishi (Recursion) She will love this card.
1x Shambling Strider (R/G Mana use) I plan on losing to this card a lot. 1x Crash of Rhinos (Trample) I plan on losing a lot of creatures, and a lot of life with this card.
Spells (15): 2x Lightning Bolt (again, Everyone who's played Magic has played this card) 2x Shock (lol, teaches that Wizards reprints and weakens old cards) 1x Lunge (Direct Damage) Again, like FTK... a little 2 for 1.
2x Giant Growth (again, Everyone who's played Magic...) 1x Worldy Tutor (Search) To get her Crash of Rhinos ... 1x Reclaim (Recur) To get the Fireball back again.
1x Pyrotechnics (Direct Damage) So she can kill 4 of my creatures with 1 card. 1x Lava Flow (Basic Removal) So she can kill my Leviathan. 1x Desert Twister (Basic Removal) So she can kill my Well of Discovery.
1x Stream of Life For when I get her down to 1 life... 1x Disintegrate (Easier to explain than Fireball ) 1x Overrun (Finisher) She WILL win whenever she plays this card.
Enchantment (2): 1x Night Soil (Token Generator) 1x Giant Strength (Basic +2/+2)
Artifact (3): 1x Mind Stone (2 uses, 1 card) 1x Conch Horn (In hopes that she finds that Giant Growth, or Lightning Bolt ) 1x Disrupting Scepter (It was after 4 years of playing that someone showed me how good this card is. I want to show her earlier than that).
Lands (23): 1x Shivan Oasis (Dual Land) 11x Mountain 11x Forest
Well, that's the "Apprentice". I am open to any suggestions on better card selections for each purpose. I am also open to ways of how I should approach a new player to this great game. I have tried not only to select cards that teach basics of gameplay, but I was EXTREMELY carefull to leave out ANY SIGNS OF A STORYLINE in this deck. I am leaving out Gerrad and his circus untill she understands that: Card names, and Card Pictures have little to no relevance on the card's actual effect on the game.
I have CAREFULLY selected cards that have a sense of "Vintage" and "Magic" to them. It is not about being competitive or winning 2/3 matches. I have worked hard to make this deck about "Exploring the basics, while keeping things 'Mysterious' and 'Magical' (as inspired by Harry Potter)".
Please share the ways that you have introduced new blood into the game. I am looking forward to getting back to my roots as well.
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Rough, but Right.
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dandan
More Vintage than Adept
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More Vintage than Adept
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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2004, 08:04:50 am » |
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I would strongly suggest that you make a deck using 24 land and 9 sets of 4 cards (Elves, Giant Growth, Mammoth, River Boa, Kird Ape, Bolt, Fireball and 2 others). Then make an opposing deck that is roughly balanced. RG vs BU seems to work. The RG deck should usually come out faster, the UB deck should have card advantage and so win longer games.
Play the decks. Any beginner will be far happier to see cards that they know and understand rather than new 'cool' cards. Giant Growth is the best spell ever for showing how Instants work (see the development of new players from instant GG, to GG in combat, to GG while considering opponent spells to avoid card disadvantage)
Pestilence is pretty amazing at showing that losing life is not always a bad thing. It is also good for showing that things like Enchantments and Artifacts can be a major pain in the backside.
Finally, losing a few games won't hurt you if you are playing a beginner. They really won't like this 'great' game if you win 6 straight games!!
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Playing bad cards since 1995
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Limbo
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« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2004, 08:11:40 am » |
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My experience with teaching magic to new people is that wizards may suck at some stuff, but they sure as hell know how to explain the bare basics of magic to draw in more players.
To start teaching her (or for that matter, any person) magic, you should start with one of those demo-packs wizards gives away for free at shops. Its those stacks with like 12 card library's. The superbasics (playing / tapping lands and casting creatures, and attacking/blocking with them) are explained with these stacks.
As soon as she has a grasp of these basics, you can advance to using a basic set starterbox (when I started way back, I got me a 4th edition starter box, which included 2 three color decks iirc). Those decks will be evenly matched, and explain some more basics (like sorcery / instant / enchantments) and show strengths / weaknesses of each color (the colorwheel). Be sure to explain everything thouroughly, without belittling her. It would be nice to explain how/why a certain creature has an ability in flavour (a creature with trample can be compared to a rhino that just stomps a weaker opposing creature in the ground, and continues to aim for the wizard, other abilities should be equally easy to explain, just keep away from the weird ones, which probably arent in the basic difficulty set anyway).
After getting in some games with those starterdecks and she understands very well how to play a game by herself, you can take it to the next level, but don't rush this. But instead of using the deck you showed above, slowly replace some cards from "her" and "your" deck with some new ones, slowly increasing difficulty and number of choices. Be sure to show the new cards before playing , and explain what they do before you start playing if she cant figure them out herself.
Be sure to keep an eye out for what she likes best. If she likes to summon big critters and stomp you to death, be sure to give her green. If she likes burning stuff to death, red is always a nice choice.
Also be sure to keep away from (too many) counterspells, and sure as hell don't counter an overrun or something, because that is the kind of stuff that will probably annoy a new player.
If you take things step by step, without rushing things, but not going to slowly either, chances are good she will enjoy the game.
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Without magic, life would be a mistake - Friedrich Nietzsche Chuck would ask Chuck how a woodchuck would chuck wood... as fast as this.
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Upinthe
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« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2004, 09:42:38 am » |
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I have CAREFULLY selected cards that have a sense of "Vintage" and "Magic" to them. It is not about being competitive or winning 2/3 matches. I have worked hard to make this deck about "Exploring the basics, while keeping things 'Mysterious' and 'Magical' (as inspired by Harry Potter)". .
I think this part is a big mistake. Part of the fun of magic is exploring cards for yourself. If you screen out cards from the start, it can't do anything but make the game look less appealing. You might want to try giving her a deck that you didn't build, like an eighth precon, and a few boosters to go along with it. Then you can explain the cards that SHE opens, and she won't think you're holding her hand or dumbing the game down for her... Remember, magic is a very appealing game to begin with, so don't do to much to ruin it. Don't just give someone a specific color just because you think thats the one they'd like best. Let them make the choice themselves. Edit: I'd also like to add that you probably should try to introduce the game around other people and not just by yourselves. If you can, try to bring another friend into it or do the teaching at a place where people play. Trust me, this helps a lot.
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I know this won't happen in a tournament, but if my opponent has Chaos Orb in his hand while I'm controlling his turn from a Mindslaver, who flips the card if I force him to play it and activate it?
"When I saw the announcement of Temple Garden on wizards.com, I knew that I was going to be out of Type 2 for the next two years" - JDizzle
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Machinus
Keldon Ancient
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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2004, 10:53:42 am » |
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I built five highlander decks to teach my girlfriend magic with. They were of all five colors, and I tried to include nonbasics, artifacts, and a wide selection of high-quality spells. I find that teaching with higher quality cards leads to a better understanding of the basic rules, like what a good casting cost is, etc. For example, when she saw lightning bolt, she remarked "that is a really good card," which is true because in the simple structure of decks used for teaching, lightning bolt has the highest damage to cost ratio of any spell.
I find that letting your opponent select a deck, and then choosing one for you to play, allows them to get more involved with the game. Choose simple themes, like ground vs. flying, and put in lots of efficient tempo cards. The biggest problem beginners have is understanding tempo, as opposed to absolute domination of the opponent (like having massive creature or life superiority and destroying all of your permanents, etc).
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T1: Arsenal
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rocknrossi
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« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2004, 03:28:44 am » |
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When I was teaching my sister to play magic I built her a really simple yet fun deck that used goblins. Its a good place to start with a theme I think and try to show them how cards can help each other. Things like Goblin King though not very good help get the mechanics down of the game. Also keeping to more vanilla creatures and having a few abilites introduced at a time seems to be helpful too.
My goblin starter deck though kinda of not very creative
20 mountains
4 goblin gilders 4 goblin strikers 4 raging goblins 4 goblin kings 2 goblin warcheifs 4 fire breaths 4 mons goblin raiders 4 spitting earths 4 shocks 4 crown of fury 2 goblin replicas
something like that can introduce enough mechanics but, not so many its too confusing. I mean going over the stack and how it works is a little too advanced for most starters. Plus this is a rough skeleton of the one I used but, you can make it for quite cheap by raiding a commons box at a local store.
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Team Jaque Leroy LaVare: You may say who know but, later the you'll be saying how.
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Goose
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2004, 12:32:31 pm » |
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Dandan, I like your idea. Actually, I will be using that idea as the introduction matches. I have to admit, including familiarization in the learning process is both effective and comforting. Also, she may pick up why there is a 4 card limit to the # of certain duplicates. In addition, I do plan on making almost all of our matches a "Back-and-Forth" battle. Just like a good boxing match.
Limbo, I dislike how Wizards makes all of their decisions based on profit. Meaning that Starter Decks, Theme Decks, and other "Novelties" are going to be skipped. I have spent hundreds, make that thousands on my collection. And I'll be damned if I blow another $10 on 60 cards that I already have. And she's already made it clear that she's into Harry Potter and Spellcasting. Making BLUE her favorite of the 5.
Upinthe, You've got the best advise of all. I've got a 3rd person in mind that we're gonna have over to visit often. Together the 3 of us will get things going in the right direction. However, as far as the type of card selection... I'm sure that Caitlin will agree that the new artwork and card design is just a sorry excuse of poor marketing. She already finds the older-looking cards far more appealing (Black-border with "Painting" -style artwork and lots of playwear).
Thanks for the suggestions. This will help things a great deal.
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Rough, but Right.
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Denney The Third
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« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2004, 07:25:00 pm » |
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Finding new players is very omportant to keeping type 1 especially around. heres some ways I believe to do it.
1: teach basic mechanics of the game to people using easy non powerful decks such as rockn rossis suggestion. if they like this then you can move on to simple strategy/combo decks and eventually to tier 1 decks.
2:dont let them go online and see MTG sites. Their minds arent ready for the environment till they've been to some bigger tournaments and seen whats what. 3: Pay for their frist couple tournaments. HAve everyone in your gaming group buy them into a tournament or two at local events. If they win money or big cards they'll get hooked for sure. And even if they lose they wont be discouraged bc they wont be out 25 bucks.
and 4: Find young kids who allready play CCGS ike pokemon or DBZ, they are much more likely to be facinated by MTG and more susceptable to playing it. Gamers are gamers. Non-gamers aren't
Thats how I think you could get soem "fresh blood" into the MTG arena.
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People who think TMD is a place for people to come together and innovate type 1 obviously arent on a team and dont know what's actually happening.
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