Chaos Orb

[Upinthe]

I realize that these might not have an answer, but I'm going to ask anyway because these questions have actually come up while playing casual games.

1)If I use Mindslaver on my opponent, play her Chaos Orb , and activate it, who actually flips the card?

2)

Artifact
If Chaos Orb is in play, flip Chaos Orb onto the playing area from a height of at least one foot. If Chaos Orb turns over completely at least once during the flip, destroy all permanents it touches. Then destroy Chaos Orb.

You can arrange your cards any time before the Orb is put into play, but not after. [Snark 1993/11/01] In general, you should not stack cards or put them in places where your opponent cannot read the names of all of them or count them. This is recommended good gaming practice. [Aahz 1994/12/03]

If I use Chaos Orb while Darksteel Forge is in play, should I leave the orb where it is when it lands or should I return it to the spot it was before it flips?

[Jebus]

I'm not touching this with a 31 foot pole.

[Mr. Fantazy]

1)If I use Mindslaver on my opponent, play her Chaos Orb , and activate it, who actually flips the card?

They flip it, but it must be in the general direction you tell them to.

How a judge would rule when you protest they didn't follow your directions is a whole different problem.

If I use Chaos Orb while Darksteel Forge is in play, should I leave the orb where it is when it lands or should I return it to the spot it was before it flips?

Since the Orb never leaves play or changes zones, it should stay where it lands.

[Dante]

How a judge would rule when you protest they didn't follow your directions is a whole different problem.

Since the Orb never leaves play or changes zones, it should stay where it lands.

A judge would never rule on this in anything other than a casual format - Chaos Orb in banned in every format that wotc sanctions.

[Mr. Fantazy]

I understand that. I was trying to get people to say how they would rule on the situation.
IMHO, there should be more "casual tournys" that allow cards like Orb, and a general concensus on how these types of situations should be ruled upon could go along way towards that.

[Jebus]

I understand that. I was trying to get people to say how they would rule on the situation.
IMHO, there should be more "casual tournys" that allow cards like Orb, and a general concensus on how these types of situations should be ruled upon could go along way towards that.

Chaos Orb should never see any "serious" play, if for nothing else, for the sake of Judges worldwide.

[JSexton]

Legit situation: Orb is legal in 5-color, which does have tournaments, up to and including a World Championship. Mindslaver is pretty popular in the format. This probably will occur within one year.

Just sayin'.

[Jebus]

Legit situation: Orb is legal in 5-color, which does have tournaments, up to and including a World Championship. Mindslaver is pretty popular in the format. This probably will occur within one year.

Just sayin'.

That isn't a DCI Sanctioned format, so I'm never going to have an official answer for that.

[Malhavoc]

Legit situation: Orb is legal in 5-color, which does have tournaments, up to and including a World Championship. Mindslaver is pretty popular in the format. This probably will occur within one year.

Just sayin'.

That isn't a DCI Sanctioned format, so I'm never going to have an official answer for that.

But neither an unofficial one?  

[TracerBullet]

But doesn't five color use the
1, tap, sac: destroy target permenant  


rule?

As a judge, I would have to have the person who activated the Mindslaver (and hence, actually controls the turn) flip it, as he would also have to control the Orb.  But, then again, I'm not a very good judge, so who knows.

[Malhavoc]

Maybe the slaved player should hold the card, and the one who activated slaver should move his opponent's arm while he toss the orb...  :lol:  This would really be "control other player's turn"!  :lol:

[rvs]

I guess this thread illustrates why Orb isn't allowed in DCI tournaments

As an in-no-way-official answer, I would like to tell Upinthe that he should work it out among himself and his friends. It would make sense to let the person who is in control of the particular turn use it.

However, I also thought that in 5color Orb was a vindicate type of effect.

[Trollstorm]

However, I also thought that in 5color Orb was a vindicate type of effect.

Nah, they actually do the whole flipping thing. They have in place a "tack" rule, however. all cards for the purpose of tapping have a "tack" in them when chaos orb is on the stack as a spell, in play and when it's effects are resolving. This means that the spot of the middle of the card (about 1/4th of an inch above the middle color border into the art of a standard beta dark ritual) and it may only rotate around this tack for tapping.



Also, what happens with you control magic something? does it have to stay on their side of the table?

[dawn8]

Also, what happens with you control magic something? does it have to stay on their side of the table?

Do you mean that when you're Slavering your opponent, you cast a Control Magic? To make it a short answer, the opponent controls the creature. (It doesn't matter whether you played it on your creature or the opponent's)

This is simply because "you" in the spell always means the caster, and in this case your opponent played it, while being under your sovereign control. Compare this to making your opponent to play a Vampiric tutor, for example. He loses 2 life, not you.

[Trollstorm]

no dammit, when chaos orb is in play you can't move cards. (standard rule in 5color) when you control magic someone else's creature, are you allowed to move it to your side of the table?

[Gabethebabe]

1)If I use Mindslaver on my opponent, play her Chaos Orb , and activate it, who actually flips the card?

I´d say this is a pretty easy question.

507.1c Only the control of the turn changes. All objects are controlled by their normal controllers.

The one who controls the turn says: "Activate Chaos Orb". The controller of the Chaos Orb has to obey and as the controller (s)he is the one that performs the actual action. You can not control the randomness of the Chaos Orb so the controller can throw where-ever he wants (compare: You can´t make him throw a 6-sided dice and require it lands on 4)

[Upinthe]

1)If I use Mindslaver on my opponent, play her Chaos Orb , and activate it, who actually flips the card?

I´d say this is a pretty easy question.

507.1c Only the control of the turn changes. All objects are controlled by their normal controllers.

The one who controls the turn says: "Activate Chaos Orb". The controller of the Chaos Orb has to obey and as the controller (s)he is the one that performs the actual action. You can not control the randomness of the Chaos Orb so the controller can throw where-ever he wants (compare: You can´t make him throw a 6-sided dice and require it lands on 4)

That's not right. I e-mailed the level 3 judge at Starcity, and here is what he said.

Q: I know this won't happen in a tournament, but if my opponent has Chaos Orb in his hand while I'm controlling his turn from a Mindslaver, who flips the card if I force him to play it and activate it?

A: Technically speaking the player who used Mindslaver's ability will only make all the decisions that the targeted player would normally make. This would include where to drop the Chaos Orb from, how high to hold it, which hand to use etc. This could take a really long time and get tedious, so I would probably have the Mindslaver player actually do the dropping of the Chaos Orb. If the owner of the Chaos Orb had a problem with this player handling his cards I would allow the use of a proxy to drop on the table.

So Mr. Fantazy was basically right.