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Author Topic: Ritual of Lightning (take 2)  (Read 2431 times)
Ephraim
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LordZakath
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« on: November 17, 2004, 03:28:24 pm »

Well, the last card I tried to name Ritual of Lightning had its name changed because it was too cool a name for that card. So here I am, trying to come up with a new ability to go with the cool name. Matt suggested a card that "gives you lightning powers", like Form of the Dragon. I couldn't think of anything quite like that, but I thought about cards associated with lightning, particularly creatures, and this is what I came up with.

Ritual of Lightning
{R}{R}
Enchantment

Creatures you control have trample and haste.
Whenever a creature you control attacks, sacrifice it at end of turn.

***

Here's why it's good. It costs a little bit less than Fervor, but it also comes with a serious drawback. The lower cost and the drawback probably balance in favour of "worse than Fervor." However, this also grants the creatures trample. Lastly, the combination of abilities gives your creatures resemblance to notable "lightning" creatures Ball Lightning and Spark Elemental, so it's very heavy on flavour.
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Ephraim
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LordZakath
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2004, 03:29:10 pm »

Current Wording:

Ritual of Lightning
{1}{R}
Enchantment

Creatures you control have trample and haste.
Whenever a creature you control attacks, sacrifice it at end of turn.
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Matt
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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2004, 05:09:01 pm »

Nice. Not at all what I had in mind.
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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2004, 05:26:50 pm »

I like it! I can just picture someone dropping something like Ryusei the Falling Star with this in play and wreaking havoc.
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I know this won't happen in a tournament, but if my opponent has Chaos Orb in his hand while I'm controlling his turn from a Mindslaver, who flips the card if I force him to play it and activate it?

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« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2004, 06:09:14 pm »

This reminds me a lot of Sneak Attack, though the two certainly seem different enough to co-exist. I don't know if I'd play this over if, though.

EDIT: Definitely captures the flavor you were looking for, though. Good work.
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2004, 08:24:38 pm »

Don't we already have something like fervor?

I do like this, though.
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2004, 10:06:56 pm »

I personally think this should give creatures you control +X/+0.  Without that, this seems horribly underpowered, turning your creatures into bad burn spells.  You aren't going to find many 5+ power 4cc creatures (Blistering Thundercat), so I think something like +3/+0 wouldn't be that bad.  It makes 1cc creatures strictly better than Spark Elemental, but Spark Elemental is awful and this requires a sunk card, so I think it's justified.
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Ephraim
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LordZakath
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« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2004, 03:51:51 pm »

If I'm going to give attacking creatures a power bonus, the cost is going to have to increase. For +3/+0, I'm thinking along the lines of {2}{R}{R}. For +2/+0, I'd probably settle for {R}{R}{R}. Would such a card be playable at that cost and worthy of the strong association with red?
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« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2004, 04:06:31 pm »

Just so you know, this is in the master list:

Quote
Recklessness
{R}{R}
Enchantment
Whenever a creature comes into play, if you played that creature from your hand, that creature gains haste until end of turn.
Whenever you play a noncreature spell, Recklessness deals 2 damage to you.
Fortune favours the impulsive; if it didn't, then they'd all be dead by now.


So just make sure this is different enough from that.
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« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2004, 07:09:07 pm »

I don't know about the power boost. Some guy is already doing a red mass pump spell right now.

How about only blocked creatures are sacrificed at EOT?
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I know this won't happen in a tournament, but if my opponent has Chaos Orb in his hand while I'm controlling his turn from a Mindslaver, who flips the card if I force him to play it and activate it?

"When I saw the announcement of Temple Garden on wizards.com, I knew that I was going to be out of Type 2 for the next two years" - JDizzle
Ephraim
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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2004, 03:34:25 pm »

I want to avoid making only blocked creatures get sacrificed at the end of turn. The more I deviate from the model of all creatures getting sacrificed, whether they attacked or not, the less this feels like "Ritual of Lightning."

Jacob Orlove, do you feel that this card currently intrudes on the design space occupied by Recklessness or are they sufficient different to coexist? Obviously they both wouldn't get put into the same set -- or maybe even the same block. That's okay by me.

As it is, I think that this is appropriately costed, full of flavour, and really good at doing exactly one thing - the way rares should be. I definitely prefer the cheaper version that doesn't grant a power bonus. If somebody really wants a power bonus, let them play this with Orcish Oriflamme. The card should be utile. It shouldn't do everything it conceivably could.

If there are no further objections, then this card will be submitted for closure in 24 Hours.
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« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2004, 04:08:19 pm »

Yeah, this is fine. I just didn't want it to drift closer to the other card.
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« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2004, 08:30:55 pm »

I still think it's underpowered.  This spell basically turns all of your creatures into Ball Lightning-esque suiciders that can block.  However, note that Ball Lightning has 6 power for RRR in order to be useful (a better benchmark would probably be Blistering Firecat, which deals 7 damage for 1RRR), which is way above what "normal" creatures get.  That means that if this is in play, your creatures will basically be awful burn that can be blocked.  Jackal Pups and Goblin Cadets do at most 2 damage for R.  Compare this with Spark Elemental or Lava Spike (3 damage for R), which many call underpowered.  Note that most 1cc red creatures these days only have 1 power.  Slith Firewalkers do at most 1 damage for RR, which is just awful.  Note that this also makes the Trample irrelevant unless you're playing fatties.  Of course, if you're playing fatties, you probably want those to stick around for a while.

Compare this with Fires of Yavimaya, which costs an extra mana and an allied color mana (+1 to +1.5 mana, since double-R may be just as difficult to play in multicolored decks).  Fires of Yavimaya gives all creatures you control haste.  It doesn't give them trample, but doesn't kill your creatures, allowing for lots of extra damage (which is a huge plus, IMO).  It also can sacrifice for a mini-Giant Growth effect, so multiples aren't dead.  And even this was getting cut in later renditions of T2 Fires.

The benefits of Ritual are obvious: It allows your creatures to attack the turn you play them, it fortifies your creatures against sorcery speed removal, it allows for surprise attacks and the mind games enabled by having hasted creatures, and it gives your creatures a very limited form of evasion.  However, its costs are probably too great.  By allowing the creatures to attack the turn you play them, it removes the ability for them to deal damage every turn, which is why people play creatures over burn.    Control decks know exactly how much damage a creature will deal if they let it through; they no longer have much to fear from Jackal Pups unless they're at low life.  I think a version of this card that applies to all players may even see play in Control decks' sideboards to be boarded in against creature decks.

I think my previous suggestion of +3/+0 was way too high.  However, I think at least +1/+0  or +2/+0 is needed to balance the fact that this turns your creatures into really bad burn.

EDIT: Added the second to last paragraph, and changed last paragraph slightly.
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<TheXPhial> lava?
Ephraim
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LordZakath
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« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2004, 02:13:58 pm »

This may well be underpowered, Zelc. However, giving the card additional benefits encumbers the elegance it has now. At present, it strongly evokes the flavour of the cards I used as patterns. Additional of power bonuses would make the card "better", but would lose touch with that flavour connection, which I think would be a shame. Furthermore, I don't want the card to do too much for you. I want people to think of different ways to play with this. For example, it would be interesting in conjunction with Fecundity, Orcish Oriflamme, Furnace of Rath, or even Teferi's Veil. Making it better gives the player less cause to do interesting things with it.
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« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2004, 02:38:46 pm »

Well, if you don't want to add abilities, and the card is underpowered, why not reduce the casting cost to 1R?
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Ephraim
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LordZakath
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« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2004, 03:03:29 pm »

Fair enough. It's a very red card, but I suppose there's no harm in making it splashable -- especially since half of the cards I named to pair this with were off-colour. Changes made.
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Ephraim
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LordZakath
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« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2004, 12:58:02 am »

24 Hour Clock
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« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2005, 11:11:47 am »

Closed and added.[/color]
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