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Author Topic: Type 4 Stack Lists and Resources  (Read 64053 times)
Necrologia
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« Reply #120 on: August 27, 2007, 10:41:34 pm »

A standard Type 4 stack is pretty poor for dueling. There are many spells that instantly end the game if they aren't countered in a duel. Part of what keeps the format balanced is the assumption that with multiple players, there will be enough counterspells around to keep the really degenerate things from happening. That said, I'm sure that if you focus solely on making your deck for duels it'd still be fun. You'll just have to watch the power level of cards you're adding like a hawk.
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« Reply #121 on: March 30, 2008, 09:27:14 am »

I've recently gotten into type 4 after a brief hiatus from magic and have done both dueling and multiplayer with it. My stack is a little different since I don't include any instant win cards in it (nothing with x in the cc generally, and no pump creatures). I also include a lot of strange tutors and graveyard effects (beacon of unrest, bribery, tooth and nail etc.). Generally I think complete brokenness is best avoided in duels, and plenty of counters/wraths balance out the stack.

Just remember: NEVER, EVER play with [un] incoming  Wink
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« Reply #122 on: July 24, 2008, 08:37:51 pm »

I've had a type 4 stack for a while, but I never really that great of a stack, due to the lack of older cards.  However, I'm finally going to shell out some money for some of them, and I was wondering what cards (lets say, pre-Onslaught block) would you not play without?

Anyways, here's what I have currently.  I'm not sure how consistent the power level is, as I haven't played with the recently updated stack recently.  We play with suspend and evoke as freebies, and if a spell uses 0 mana, its free.

*Artifacts*

Aladdin's Ring
Crown of Convergence
Gleemax
Legacy Weapon
Mind's Eye
Mindslaver
Mirari
Mizzium Transreliquat
Nevinyrral's Disk
Null Brooch
Oblivion Stone
Planar Portal
Reito Lantern
Soul Foundry
Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang
Tormod's Crypt
Tower of Fortunes
Vedalken Orrey
World-Bottling Kit

*Creatures*

Aeon Chronicler
Angel of Salvation
Arashi, the Sky Asunder
Arcanis the Omnipotent
Armored Guardian
Aven Mindcensor
Azorius Guildmage
Bane of the Living
Bloodfire Colossus
Body Double
Bosh, Iron Golem
Bringer of the Black Dawn
Bringer of the Blue Dawn
Chromeshell Crab
Crowd Favorites
Darksteel Colossus
Deepfire Elemental
Descendant of Soramaro
Dimir Doppelganger
Draining Whelk
Eight-and-a-Half Tails
Ertai, Wizard Adept
Faerie Macabre
Figure of Destiny
Firemane Angel
Genesis
Glarecaster
Glory
Gorilla Shamn
Greater Morphling
Grothoth
Guile
Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil
Intet, the Dreamer
Iridescent Angel
Jiwari, the Earth Aflame
Jushi Apprentice
Kaervek, the Merciless
Krosan Cloudscraper
Krosan Colossus
Masticore
Memnarch
Metathran Aerostat
Mindleech Mass
Mischievous Quanar
Mistmeadow Witch
Myojin of Infinite Rage
Myojin of Cleansing Fire
Myojin of the Seeing Winds
Mystic Snake
Necrotic Sliver
Nicol Boras
Offalsnout
Panglacial Wurm <-- Playable for free from the library.
Phage the Untouchable
Plated Slagwurm
Protean Hulk
Puppeteer Clique
Quicksilver Dragon
Razia, Boros Archangel
Reya Dawnbringer
Riptide Shapeshifter
Scourge of Kher Ridges
Seht's Tiger
Siege-Gang Commander
Silklash Spider
Simic Sky Swallower
Sisters of Stone Death
Skinthinner
Slithermuse
Smokespew Invoker
Stonecloaker
Stuffy Doll
Symbiotic Wurm
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Teneb, the Harvester
Uktabi Kong
Venser, Shaper Savant
Vesuvan Shapeshifter
Vexing Shusher
Voidmage Apprentice
Voidmage Husher
Voidmage Prodigy
Willbender
Withered Wretch

*Enchantment*

Decree of Silence
Holistic Wisdom
Knollspine Invocation
Rage Reflection
Spellweaver Volute
Take Possession
Thought Reflection
Wound Reflection


*Instants*

Absorb
Agonizing Demise
Arcane Denial
Assert Authority
Betrayal of Flesh
Blast from the Past
Cancel
Capsize
Chord of Calling
Clutch of the Undercity
Commandeer
Congregation at Dawn
Controvert
Counterbore
Cruel Revival
Death Denied
Deflection
Delay
Desertion
Discombobulate
Dismal Failure
Dismiss
Disrupting Shoal
Dwarven Catapult
Ertai's Meddling
Evacuation
Exclude
Fact of Fiction
Faerie Trickery
Fervent Denial
Festival of the Guildpact
Forbid
Force of Will
Fracturing Gust
Frazzle
Gaze of Adamaro
Grab the Reins
Hinder
Induce Paranoia
Inferno
Krosan Grip
Last Word
Memory Plunder
Molder
Moonlight Bargain
Mortify
Muddle the Mixture
Murmurs from Beyond
Mystical Teachings
Negate
Opportunity
Overwhelming Intellect
Pact of Negation
Parallectric Feedback
Perplex
Pulse of the Field
Pulse of the Grid
Put Away
Putrefy
Ray of Distortion
Red Elemental Blast
Remand
Rend Flesh
Repel Intruders
Return to Dust
Rewind
Rootgrapple
Scattering Stroke
Searing Wind
Seed Spark
Shattering Pulse
Shining Shoal
Shunt
Sickening Shoal
Skeletal Scrying
Smash
Snapback
Snuff Out
Soulblast
Spell Blast
Spell Burst
Spelljack
Spellshift
Spin into Myth
Spite // Malice
Starstorm
Stifle
Stonewood Invocation
Sudden Death
Sudden Spoiling
Swift Silence
Swords to Plowshares
Terminate
Time Stop
Trial // Error
Trickbind
Undermine
Whispers of the Muse
Who/What/When/ Where/Why
Wild Ricochet
Wipe Away
Word of Seizing
Wrecking Ball

*Land*

Academy Ruins
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Maze of Ith
Prahv, Spires of Order
Urza's Factory

*Sorcery*

Acquire
Akroma's Vengeance
All Suns' Dawn
Balancing Act
Barter in Blood
Blatant Thievery
Bribery
Crush of Wurms
Decree of Annihilation
Decree of Pain
Enshrined Memories
Evangelize
Final Judgment
Flowstone Slide
Insurrection
Knowledge Exploitation
Mind Spring
Obliterate
Phthisis
Plague Wind
Promise of Power
Shattering Spree
Storm Herd
Sway of the Stars
Time Stretch
Tooth and Nail
Twisted Justice

EDIT: Had the wrong list earlier.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2008, 01:45:13 pm by mutant mell » Logged
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« Reply #123 on: July 29, 2008, 12:08:33 am »

How big is too big when it comes to making a stack. Mine seems quite the heavyweight at 487 cards. I've tried to up the quality of the cards as much as possible, while still allowing subthemes and synergies to come up. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what sort of ratios I should be. I'm at around 35% creatures/15% counterspells right now, with the rest being removal/broken. That creature number is probably a little high, as I've never seen anyone cast Jiwarri or Roilling Horror and it includes token making instants, but it's fairly accurate. The stack plays well, but if anything it's a little removal short. Granted, the trade off the variety of a pool this big is that sometimes you just aren't going to see the percise amount as you would like, I'd love to hear other people's ratios or general theories on how big a sucessful pool can really get before it gets too random.
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« Reply #124 on: July 29, 2008, 11:37:15 am »

Stack size doesn't really matter too much anymore, IMO.  The key is that you can decide to not play with all the cards every game.  Usually I just deal out three 15 card "packs" for each player and we just run it like that.  I suggest to just trim off cards that aren't very good after each game and your stack will tighten up to the point where almost every card seems amazing.  Type 4 drafts should be all about people saying "this pack is INSANE" 

I'm not sure on my exact ratios, but IMO counterspells should be like 8-12% and the number of cards that can be played at instant speed should be at least 50%  beyond that it's pretty open for debate.  having more creatures means that they will be a larger part of the gameplay etc etc
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« Reply #125 on: July 29, 2008, 11:56:05 am »

I've had an article in the back of my mind that I never got around to writing, but there are many very interesting ways to build Type 4 Stacks.

When I built my t4 stack I ran every single Control Magic effect: Binding Grasp, Yavimaya's Embrace, Control Magic, Treachery, even Steal Artifact, etc.   I also ran every Wrath effect.  Paul does not.   
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« Reply #126 on: July 29, 2008, 12:35:13 pm »

Jacob Orlove had an all Kamigawa Type 4 stack, so there's a lot of ways to go about it.  Subtle things like how much creature removal you run will have a big impact on how the games play out, too.  If you have a lot of creature removal you will need creatures that are resiliant to it or that "get things accomplished" shortly after comming into play.  That's just the tip of the iceberg, really. 

Ray Robilard's stack has every card altered.  It's a little intimidating to newbies, but it's something different for people that play regularly.
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« Reply #127 on: July 29, 2008, 02:21:08 pm »

Paul do I was thinking of running a stack composed entirely of creatures (AKA legions).  I'm thinking while it will be fun, I want to make drafting this stack different than just hoarding bombs/counterspells.  Do you think this is a viable idea, and if so how big should i plan it out to be?
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« Reply #128 on: July 29, 2008, 05:19:47 pm »

I'd look for every creature with Flash.  Fully 2/3 if not all would be includable.  My hunch though is that a lot of the creature-based comboes (Memnarch, Glarecaster, Bosh, Nezumi Shortfang stuff) would be unbalanced because there aren't as many removal spells and nothing split second.
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« Reply #129 on: July 29, 2008, 06:07:38 pm »

I think it would be okay to include noncreature cards which need creatures to function: equipment, oriflamme effects, that sort of thing.

Spawning Pit!
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« Reply #130 on: July 29, 2008, 11:39:25 pm »

I think it would be okay to include noncreature cards which need creatures to function: equipment, oriflamme effects, that sort of thing.

Spawning Pit!

I was thinking along the lines of including those things, however if I do that, I need to draw a fine line I can't branch any further away from creatures.  Things like pandemonium could be fun for sure.
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« Reply #131 on: July 30, 2008, 08:50:04 am »

Just set a limit like 3/4 of the stack is creatures or something.  Or no non-creature ways to win.  Or no (non-creature) Wraths!  I do agree that creatures only is more obvious a theme.  What if instead of going creatures only, you just took out Sorceries?  Or something similar.
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« Reply #132 on: July 30, 2008, 06:22:00 pm »

"All creatures have flash, all instants are sorceries"?
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« Reply #133 on: July 31, 2008, 11:03:11 am »

I think going with mostly creatures would be best.  I like "no noncreature win conditions", that should give you the effect you're looking for (lots of combat) without it being too slow.  I worry that if you don't have enough instant speed cards to play that the game will seem to drag. 

I'd like to hear how this experiment pans out. 
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« Reply #134 on: July 31, 2008, 02:53:41 pm »

If you were willing to tone down the power, this could probably work fine.  You'd want to avoid Nezumi Graverobber and Chainer, Dementia Master I think.  Basically any combo that is only answerable by split second spells.  Glarecaster is borderline too good as well.  Then you'd want as much creature-based removal as possible.  I imagine the games would play like an interesting variant of Mental Magic.  That is, each turn you'd play a two for one, generally a 187 creature, and then they play one to answer yours the next turn.  It may be a slow game though since most of the useful utility creatures have small power.  Just be aware.
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« Reply #135 on: July 31, 2008, 06:57:58 pm »

We have gone w/ a slightly powered down view for our type 4 stack, eliminating a lot of the cards which just win you the game asap or take the 'fun' factor out of the game.  Gamerobber, Mindslaver, Glarecaster, and Knollspine Invocation have all hit the bin lately.
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« Reply #136 on: August 10, 2008, 10:15:21 am »

We have gone w/ a slightly powered down view for our type 4 stack, eliminating a lot of the cards which just win you the game asap or take the 'fun' factor out of the game.  Gamerobber, Mindslaver, Glarecaster, and Knollspine Invocation have all hit the bin lately.
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« Reply #137 on: August 10, 2008, 11:35:18 am »

We have gone w/ a slightly powered down view for our type 4 stack, eliminating a lot of the cards which just win you the game asap or take the 'fun' factor out of the game.  Gamerobber, Mindslaver, Glarecaster, and Knollspine Invocation have all hit the bin lately.
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« Reply #138 on: October 02, 2008, 12:49:12 am »

Updated our Type 4 list with Shards of Alara cards in bold and underlined

In response to Anusien in the thread that Paul started about the Shards spoiler, in general we just continue to add cards. Occasionally we remove cards that are overpowered or underwhelming.


Artifact

Aladdin’s Lamp
Aladdin’s Ring (foil)
Book of Rass
Bosh, Iron Golem
Door to Nothingness (foil)
Duplicant
Fist of Suns
Gleemax
Legacy Weapon
Letter Bomb
Lich’s Mirror
Lightning Greaves (foil)
Memnarch (foil)
Mind’s Eye
Mindslaver
Minion Reflector
Mirari
Mirror Mirror
Nevinyrral’s Disk
North Star
Nullstone Gargoyle (foil)
Panacea (foreign)
Pentavus
Plague Boiler
Planar Portal (foil)
Predator, Flagship
Quicksilver Amulet
Reito Lantern (foil)
Sensei’s Divining Top (foreign)
Sculpting Steel (foil)
Shield of the Ages
Soul Foundry
Stuffy Doll (foreign)
Suncrusher
Tatsumasa, the Dragon’s Fang (foil)
That Which Was Taken
Tower of Fortunes (foil)
Thran Tome
Vedalken Orrery

Land

Academy Ruin (foil, foreign)
Arena
Boseiju, Who Shelters All (foil)
Dark Depths
Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
Prahv, Spires of Order (foil)
Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion (foil)
Urza’s Factory (foil, foreign)
Volrath’s Stronghold
Winding Canyons

Green

All Suns’ Dawn
Ana Battlemage (foil)
Arashi, the Sky Asunder
Call of the Wild
Chord of Calling
Crush of Wurms (foil)
Decree of Savagery (foil)
Desert Twister (foreign)
Genesis
Granny’s Payback
Holistic Wisdom
Hunting Pack
Krosan Cloudscraper (art modded)
Krosan Colossus
Krosan Grip (foreign)
Molder (foil)
Moment's Peace (foil)
Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
Mystic Melting
Nantuko Vigilante (foil)
Panglacial Wurm
Plated Slagwurm (foreign)
Restock (foil)
Rhox (foil)
Root Elemental
Silvos, Rogue Elemental
Spearbreaker Behemoth
Sprout Swarm (foil)
Storm Seeker
Symbiotic Wurm (foil)
Thicket Elemental
Timmy, Power Gamer
Tooth and Nail
Tornado
Weird Harvest
Woodfall Primus


White

Akroma’s Vengeance
Altar’s Light
Ancestor's Chosen (foil, foreign)
Angel's Grace (foil)
Armistice
Aura Blast (foil)
Austere Command
AWOL
Beacon of Immortality
Benalish Commander (foil)
Blazing Archon
Boros Fury-Shield (foil)
Chant of Vitu-Ghazi (foil, foreign)
Chastise
Dismantling Blow
Divine Offering (foreign)
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails (foreign)
Evangelize
False Prophet (foil)
Final Judgment (foil)
Glarecaster (foil)
Glory
Heroes Remembered (foreign)
Hour of Reckoning (foil)
Invincible Hymn (foil)
Karmic Guide
Momentary Blink (foil)
Myojin of Cleansing Fire
Once More with Feeling
Orim’s Thunder (foil)
Pull from Eternity (foil)
Ray of Distortion (foil)
Resounding Silence (foil)
Return to Dust (foil)
Rout
Shining Shoal
Solar Tide
Soulscour
Stonecloaker (foil)
Storm Herd
Sunscape Battlemage (foreign)
Sunscour

Black

Agonizing Demise
Annihilate (foreign)
Bane of the Living
Barter in Blood
Beacon of Unrest
Betrayal of Flesh (foil)
Bringer of the Black Dawn
Cabal Conditioning (foil)
Chainer, Dementia Master
Consumptive Goo
Corpse Dance
Cremate
Death Denied (foil)
Decree of Pain
Dregs of Sorrow
False Cure
Fevered Convulsions
Greed
Grim Harvest (foil)
Headstone (foreign)
Hypnox
Infernal Spawn of Evil
Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil
Kuro, Pitlord (foil)
Laquatus’s Champion (foil, foreign)
Lim-Dul the Necromancer (foreign)
Myojin of Night’s Reach
Necrologia
Necromancy (signed)
Nightscape Battlemage (foreign)
Phage the Untouchable
Phthisis (foil)
Plague Wind
Planeswalker’s Scorn
Promise of Power
Rapid Decay
Reiver Demon
Resounding Scream
Scion of Darkness
Silent Specter
Skinthinner (foil)
Smokespew Invoker (foil)
Strands of Night
Sudden Death (foreign)
Tainted Pact
Treacherous Urge (foreign)
Tsabo’ Decree
Twilight’s Call
Visara the Dreadful
Yawgmoth’s Agenda

Red

Beacon of Destruction (foil)
Bloodfire Colossus (foil)
Bogardan Hellkite (foreign)
Bring of the Red Dawn
Brothers of Fire
Cinder Elemental (foreign)
Decree of Annihilation
Desolation Giant
Dwarven Catapult
Fissure
Flash Conscription
Flowstone Overseer
Flowstone Slide
Fortune Thief
Gaze of Adamaro
Goblin Dynamo (foil)
Grab the Reins
Heat Ray
Imperial Hellkite
Inferno
Insurrection (foil)
Jiwari, the Earth Aflame
Jokulhaups
Kamahl, Pit Fighter
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Mages’ Contest (foil, foreign)
Obliterate
Ogre Shaman
Parallectric Feedback
Reiterate (foreign)
Resounding Thunder (foil)
Riddle of Lightning (foreign)
Rimescale Dragon
Ryusei, the Falling Star
Scourge of Kher Ridges
Searing Touch
Searing Wind
Shivan Meteor (foreign)
Shunt
Skarrgan Firebird (foil, foreign)
Soul’s Fire
Starstorm
Task Mage Assembly
Thieves’ Auction (foil)
Thunderscape Battlemage
Urza’s Rage
Vicious Shadows
Warp World
Wild Research
Wild Ricochet
Word of Seizing

Gold

“Ach! Hans, Run!”
Æther Mutation (foil)
Æthermage’s Touch
Absorb
Angel of Despair
Armored Guardian
Artifact Mutation
Aura Mutation (foil)
Autochthon Wurm
Azorius Guildmage
Backlash (foreign)
Bant Charm
Brilliant Ultimatum (foreign)
Captain’s Maneuver (foil)
Cauldron Dance (foreign)
Congregation at Dawn (foil)
Crime/Punishment
Crosis Charm
Cruel Ultimatum
Deepfire Elemental
Dimir Doppelganger
Dominus of Fealty (foil)
Dovescape
Dromar’s Charm
Eladamri’s Call
Empyrial Archangel
Esper Charm
Garza Zol, Plague Queen
Godsire
Grixis Charm (foil)
Hide/Seek
Hindering Light
Hull Breach (foil)
Hymn of Rebirth
Intet, the Dreamer (foreign)
Jund Charm
Kaervek the Merciless (foil)
Kiss of the Amesha
Meddling Kids (foil)
Memory Plunder
Meteor Storm
Mirrorweave
Mistmeadow Witch
Mortify
Mystic Snake (foil)
Naya Charm
Necrogenesis (foil)
Nicol Bolas (foreign)
Phantom Nishoba
Prince of Thralls
Prophetic Bolt
Punish Ignorance
Putrefy
Rare-B-Gone
Reflect Damage
Repel Intruders
Reviving Vapors (foil)
Sarkhan Vol
Savage Twister
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Sedris, the Traitor King
Sharuum the Hegemon
Sphinx Sovereign (foil)
Spinal Embrace (foil)
Spite/Malice (foil)
Stormbind (foreign)
Suffocating Blast (foil)
Swerve
Swift Silence
Teneb, the Harvester (foreign)
Terminate (foil)
Titanic Ultimatum
Treva’s Charm
Torrent of Souls
Twisted Justice (foil)
Undermine
Vampiric Dragon (foil)
Vanish into Memory
Violent Ultimatum
Voidslime
Who What When Where Why
Yavimaya’s Embrace

Blue

Acquire
Aeon Chronicler
Arcane Denial
Arcanis the Omnipotent
Blatant Thievery
Bribery
Bringer of the Blue Dawn
Capsize
Commandeer
Confiscate
Controvert
Covenant of Minds (foil)
Chromeshell Crab (foreign)
Decree of Silence (foreign)
Desertion
Discombobulate (foil)
Dismal Failure (foil)
Dismiss
Disrupting Shoal
Dissipate
Dominate
Draining Whelk (foil)
Ertai’s Meddling
Ertai, Wizard Adept
Evacuation
Exclude (foil)
Fact or Fiction
Fervent Denial (foil)
Flash of Insight (foil)
Foil (foil)
Forbid
Gather Specimens
Gifts Ungiven
Grozoth (foreign)
Heed the Mists (foil)
Hinder
Hoverguard Sweepers
Interdict
Kederekt Leviathan
Knowledge Exploitation
Last Word
Metathran Aerostat
Mist Dragon
Myojin of Seeing Winds
Mystical Teachings (foil)
Opportunity (foil)
Plagiarize
Probe (foil)
Put Away
Quicksilver Dragon (foil)
Reins of Power
Remand
Repeal (foreign, signed)
Resounding Wave (foil)
Reweave
Rewind
Riptide Survivor
Rush of Knowledge (foil)
Shapesharer
Spell Burst (foreign)
Spelljack
Spellshift
Spin into Myth (foreign)
Sway of the Stars
Take Possession
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir (foreign)
Temporal Cascade (foil)
Three Wishes
Tidespout Tyrant
Time Stretch (foreign)
Time Stop
Thwart (foreign, signed)
Trickbind (foreign)
Twincast
Vesuvan Doppelganger (foreign)
Vex (foil)
Voidmage Apprentice (foil)
Voidmage Husher (foil)
Voidmage Prodigy
Whispers of the Muse
Willbender (foil)
Wipe Away (foreign)
« Last Edit: December 08, 2008, 05:22:35 pm by A.-1. » Logged

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Mr. Type 4
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« Reply #139 on: October 02, 2008, 02:11:25 pm »

wow, Goblin Dynamo - how is that for you? It seems pretty close to fair, other than the potential to reanimate it with something like Corpse Dance.

Probably more fair than Consumptive Goo - does this cause any issues?  It seems awfully powerful to "almost" kill everything until your turn, then actually kill everything and swing in. 

I really need to suck it up and post my list, it just seems like such a daunting task to type out all the cards. 
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« Reply #140 on: October 02, 2008, 03:08:47 pm »

It didn't take me very long to type out all of the cards and then copy paste into a post. 350-400 cards may seem overwhelming at first but I believe it took me less than an hour to sort the cards by color and type it all out.

Goblin Dynamo and Consumptive Goo are very strong but aren't any more busted than the other "I win" cards, like Door to Nothingness. More often than not these cards will resolve and end up killing the original caster with Word of Seizing or Captain's Maneuver. The only 2 cards we've found to be too abusive are Nezumi Graverobber and Mischievous Quanar even after we limited it to once per turn.


If anyone would like to point out cards that the list is missing that would be great. I know there are definitely some cards that were overlooked and forgotten about. I know it's missing some random cards like Decree of Pain and Blessed Wind, and some more expensive/harder to find cards like Illusionary Mask and Diamond Valley. One funny card I think everyone should include is an Arabian Nights Aladdin's Lamp with the casting cost of  {5} {5} instead of  {10}. We play with it as though it had a casting cost of fifty-five instead of ten. It is randomly good with Bosh/Rush of Knowledge/Heed the Mists and randomly hosed by Parallectric Feedback/Kaervek the Merciless. I realize this isn't new. But with Shards I'd be willing to bet that a lot of Type 4 stacks will be created and random gems like Lamp are nice to know about.
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« Reply #141 on: October 02, 2008, 03:14:04 pm »

wow, Goblin Dynamo - how is that for you? It seems pretty close to fair, other than the potential to reanimate it with something like Corpse Dance.

Probably more fair than Consumptive Goo - does this cause any issues?  It seems awfully powerful to "almost" kill everything until your turn, then actually kill everything and swing in. 

I really need to suck it up and post my list, it just seems like such a daunting task to type out all the cards. 

Now that I think of it, Dynamo does seem a lot easier to get rid of/backfire than The Door. Mostly any creature kill wil get rid of it and besides the mentionned Dance, there isn't much to give him haste.

I agree with the Goo though, no fun, almost no possible blockers.
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« Reply #142 on: October 02, 2008, 04:18:51 pm »

i don't think door to nothingness is even very good.  it's a cool card to include and it hoses some poor bastard who managed to gain an arbitarily high amount of life, but for the most part, no one seems to get Doored unless they were pretty deserving.  Goblin Dynamo is right on the borderline of "too good" in my opinion. 

wow, Ana Battlemage is pretty nasty.  Haven't really seen that one before.

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« Reply #143 on: October 02, 2008, 04:58:08 pm »

I guess our Type 4 stack is a lot more busted than I thought. We also have Cinder Elemental which is virtually the same card as Dynamo and neither are picked that highly.

I've just been under the impression that any card that you need to play, pass the turn, and wait for an untap step isn't too powerful. Their effects are very strong, like Goo's or Dynamo's, but you have to wait for all of your opponents to act. Granted there are a few cards like Corpse Dance, Reins of Power, and Insurrection that can give these creatures haste, but there are just as many, probably more cards that hose these creatures. (Willbender, Reflect Damage, Trickbind, Grab the Reins, etc.)

If by borderline "too good" you mean that if the creature resolves someone is going to die (possibly the caster), then yes I would agree with that. A resolved Dynamo is usually sad times for someone and in the right deck can be too good.

I don't really see how Goo would be no fun though. It's no worse than Memnarch and a lot of people are fans of that card.
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« Reply #144 on: October 03, 2008, 08:17:28 am »

Quote
I don't really see how Goo would be no fun though. It's no worse than Memnarch and a lot of people are fans of that card.

Memnarch (only!) steal everything, but cannot do infinite damage. The trick with goo is that you can activate it on itself to give if infite +1+1 counters which makes instead kills if it connects. Although I suppose it would be possible to remove that trick and make it ok. But for most stacks, anything that goes infinite by itself is a big No-No.
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« Reply #145 on: October 03, 2008, 10:16:32 am »

i mean, maybe it's different in your stack (but from your list I think you're running a similar power level stack to mine), but IMO it's EASY to get a creature in play.  you got all kinds of reanimation, and it's never an issue?

I don't know where you live, but if we ever cross paths, I'd like to get a couple games in on this stack, especially if people dont draft stuff like this too highly Smile
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« Reply #146 on: October 03, 2008, 11:26:18 am »

Yes we know about the trick with Goo. Whether an arbitrarily large Goo, Smemnarch, or a 20/20 Dark Depths I fail to see much difference. Smemnarch steals everything then if you get another turn maybe one person is dieing. With Goo even if you do give it haste, it doesn't go infinite that turn. They're both very easy to deal with and I honestly can't remember the last time Goo actually swung and killed someone. It sounds like our stack has too much removal and/or counters and cards like these aren't problematic.

@Paul We've met a few times before in Columbus, Pittsburgh, maybe Philly but I've never played your stack. I'm from Penn State so I'm sure we'll cross paths again.
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« Reply #147 on: December 06, 2008, 02:31:24 pm »

Ring of Immortals is awesome and can be had pretty cheap!
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« Reply #148 on: February 10, 2009, 10:26:58 am »

Here is my own t4 stack.

The main thing to build was (and still is) : make it cheap, but fun.
You won't find high prized rares like Academy Ruins, Force of Will or Spirit of the night in it (not to say IlluMask or Diamon Valley). There are some not so cheap cards like Angel of despair, but there are some cards I happened to find or deal for almost free.
We also banned massive discard spells and creatures (such as black myojin). Therefore, big drawers that doesn't have a big feedback are banned (you will find armistice but no Whispers of the muse).
And lastly, infinite effects like consumptive goo, vampiric dragon, fevered convulsions are banned so far.

Feel free to comment !

Pool : 300

Big Men (39)

Angel of despair
Autochthon Wurm
Blood tyrant
Bosh, Iron Golem
Draco
Excruciator
Grozoth
Gurzigost
Hostility
Infernal Spawn of Evil
Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil
Imperial Hellkite
Inkwell Leviathan
Keeper of the Sacred Word
Kiyomaro, First to Stand
Krosan Cloudscraper
Krosan Colossus
Kuro, Pitlord
Meglonoth
Myojin of Life's Web
Multani, Maro Sorcerer
Necrovore
Oros, the Avenger
Plated Slagwurm
Prince of Thralls
Progenitus
Purity
Quicksilver Dragon
Reiver demon
Rimefeather Owl
Sekki, Season's Guide
Stone-Tongue Basilisk
Suncrusher
Symbiotic Wurm
Szadek, Lord of Secrets
Teneb, the Harvester
The Unspeakable
Tsabo Tavoc
Vorosh, the Hunter
Xanthic Statue


Utility Creatures (51) : 90

Aeons Chroniquer
Aven Fateshaper
Azorius Guildmage
Bane of the Living
Blazing archon
Bloodfire Colossus
Bringer of black dawn
Bringer of white dawn
Brine elemental
Brooding saurian
Chainer, Dementia Master
Charnelhoard Wurm
Chromeshell Crab
Crowd Favorites
Desolation Giant
Draining Whelk
Experiment Kraj
Ertai, Wizard Adept
False Prophet
Furnace Brood
Gigapede
Glarecaster
Gleancrawler
Godhead of Awe
Gustcloak Savior
Hoverguard Sweepers
Kaervek the Merciless
Limdul the necromancer
Marble Titan
Myojin of Cleansing Fire
Myojin of Seeing Winds
Nuckelavee
Paladin of Prahv
Purity
Phage, the Untouchable
Riptide Biologist
Riptide Shapeshifter
Root Elemental
Shard Phenix
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Snow Fortress
Spirit en-Dal
Spirit of the Hearth
Skinthinner
Thicket Elemental
Timmy, Power Gamer
Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar
Vesuvean Shapeshifter
Voidmage Apprentice
Willbender
Yomiji, Who Bars the Way
Zhalfirin Crusader


Masticores (5) : 95

Flowstone Overseer
Masticore
Rimescale Dragon
Scourge of Kher Ridges
Smokespew Invoker


Wrath Effects (22) : 117

Apocalypse
Austere command
Brightflame
Decree of Annihilation
Decree of pain
Dregs of Sorrow
Final Judgment
Flowstone Slide
Forced March
Hour of reckoning
Incendiary Command
Inferno
Jokulhaups
Mass Calcify
March of Souls
Plague Wind
Planeswalker's Scorn
Soulscour
Starstorm
Task Mage Assembly
Warp World
Worldpurge


Counterspells (33) : 150

Assert Authority
Aether Storm
Checks and Balances
Commandeer
Controvert
Decree of Silence
Deflection
Discombobulate
Dispersal shield
Dissipate
Dovescape
Douse
Dromar's Charm
Dream Fracture
Ertai's Meddling
Fervent Denial
Fold into Æther
Grip of Chaos
Last Word
Lethal Vapors
Null Brooch
Overwhelming intelligence
Psychic Battle
Rewind
Spelljack
Spite/Malice
Suffocating Blast
Swift silence
Teferi's care
Tidal Control
Thwart
Vex
Wild Ricochet


Duplication (3) : 153

Mirari
Radiate
Reiterate


Removal (36) : 189

Æther Mutation
Arrest
Bant charm
Builder's bane
Chain of Acid
Chill to the bones
Crosis's Charm
Cruel Revival
Curse of the Cabal
Death Mutation
Detonate
Desert Twister
Devouring vortex
Expunge
Fissure
Icefall
Hero's demise
Phtisis
Multani's decree
Order/Chaos
Orim's Thunder
Rain of Rust
Radiant's Judgment
Razia's Purification
Reciprocate
Reckless spite
Rend flesh
Sickening Shoal
Slaughter
Spreading Plague
Terashi's Grasp
Tornado
Treva's Charm
Tsabo's Decree
Violent ultimatum
Wreak Havoc


Control Magics (18) : 207

Acquisition
Blatant Thievery
Blind with anger
Confiscate
Dominate
Flash Conscription
Gather Specimens
Govern the Guildless
Grab the Reins
Insurrection
Krovikan Whispers
Persuasion
Steal Artifact
Spinal Embrace
Take Possession
Telemin performance
Twist Allegiance
Word of Seizing
Yavimaya's Embrace

Draw / deck manipulation (16) : 223

Armisitice
Biomantic Mastery
Chord of Calling
Citanul Flute
Elemental augury
Eternal Dominion
Greed
Grinning Totem
Guided Passage
Heed the Mists
Phyrexian Etchings
Soothsaying
Temporal Cascade
Thought Reflection
Wild Pair
Wild Research


Damage Prevention (13) : 236

Captain's Maneuver
Chant of Vitu-Ghazi
Energy Storm
Kor Haven
Meishin, the Mind cage
Panacea
Protective Sphere
Rakalite
Reflect Damage
Reverse Damage
Reverse the Sands
Rith's Charm
Sun's bounty
Temper


Recursion (9) : 245

Dawn of the Dead
Diabolic servitude
Endbringer's Revel
Debtor's knell
Living End
Purgatory
Miraculous Recovery
Twilight's Call
Yawgmoth's Agenda


Tokens generation (10) : 255

Breeding pit
Castel Kher
Crush of Wurms
Din of the Fireherd
Infernal Genesis
Midsummer Revel
Night Soil
Saproling Cluster
The Hive
Volrath's Laboratory


Discard (3) : 268

Delirium skeins
Mind Peel
Sealed Fate


Blasts (10) : 278

Aladdin's Ring
Beacon of destruction
Blast From the Past
Hammer of bogardan
Kaboum
Lightning Surge
Mindblaze
Parallectric Feedback
Prophetic bolt
Searing wind
Vicious shadows
Undying flames


Tap effect (2) : 280

Gigadrowse
Winter Blast


Other: (20) 300

Aether rift
Copy Artifact
Copy enchantment
Cursed totem
Flickerform
Followed Footsteps
Grim Reminder
Jund Charm
Kismet
Multani's Presence
Opalescence
Quicksilver Amulet
Reviving Vapors
Tel-Jilad Stylus
Thieves' Auction
Time Stretch
Titanic ultimatum
Tower of Eons
Vernal Equinox
Zur's Weirding


Not in the regular stack :

Sisters of Stone Death
Sway of the stars
Barl's cage
Aladdin's Lamp
Planar Portal
Tower of fortunes

Banned :
Call of the wild
Illuminatus Djinn
Legacy weapon
Mirror Sheen
Nezumi graverobber
Nullstone gargoyle
Spell Burst
Vampiric Dragon
Treasure trove
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Mr. Type 4
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« Reply #149 on: February 11, 2009, 01:02:55 pm »

I like what you've done with this stack so far.  It's mostly lower power stuff but it does have some strong effects like Kaerevek the Merciless, Searing Wind, Chord of Calling and Chainer.  I bet Chainer seems really good in here.  Have you tried Dimir Doppleganger?

Got to ask about a couple of these... Have these cards been good for you? Experiment Kraj, Kismet, Copy Enchantment, Yomiji?

Counterspells = 33 is a little over 10%.  That's pretty good.

Hostility seems bad.  You only have like 9 burn spells.  Seems unlikely you'll ever see the effect.

I dont think Vamp Dragon would be too good in here.  Legacy Weapon has also been surprisingly fair for me.   I certainly agree that the other cards you have listed as "banned" would be overly powerful for most Type 4 stacks.   

Checks and Balances is one I haven't seen, and looks like fun.  What happens when there are only two players left? It's really not clear on the card.  What if it's in play when there's three players, and one player dies... does every card get countered?

There's probably a lot more to comment on here, but this stack does look like a lot of fun.  thanks for sharing.








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