Type 4 Stack Lists and Resources

[darkmindtone]

I finally got the time/motivation to type up my stack list.  Honestly, I don't have any complaints about the stack currently as I think I've finally got it to a point where I'm really happy with it.  It runs on a slightly lower power level than many of the other stacks shown on here, as it doesn't utilize the alternate casting cost rule/firebreathers/Dark Depths/player-created cards/etc.  A new change to the stack is that cards only do exactly what they say they do without any player modification.  This stops confusion from newer players when playing for the first few times.  Thus, no modified Who/What/When/Why/Where, Quanar, Tsabo's Decree, Vedalken Shackles, etc so that they're able to be included.  The entwine cards such as Betrayal Of Flesh simply offer choices instead of giving the ability to do both.  Also, direct tutoring effects without limitation are looked down upon as well, so Planar Portal, Aladdin's Lamp, Soothsaying, and Flash Of Insight are not included.

The stack is currently 380 cards, with an almost excessive amount of removal.  The games often go long, as dying quickly usually ends up unsatisfying for a player.  Wars of attrition are often how this stack plays out.  Still, there are occasional plays like turn 1 Tooth and Nail for Glarecaster/Silklash Spider while nobody holds a counter. 

This stack operates with a 5-card starting hand and infinite effects are resolved via:

Damage/Removal < Prevention/Protection < Counters


Blue Creatures:

Morphling
Teferi, Mage Of Zhalfir
Draining Whelk
Hoverguard Sweepers
Mist Dragon
Gilded Drake
Tidespout Tyrant
Voidmage Apprentice
Ertai, Wizard Adept
Sakashima The Imposter
Grozoth
Voidmage Prodigy
Tidal Kraken
Vesuvan Doppelganger
Vesuvan Shapeshifter
Bringer Of The Blue Dawn
Clone
Deep-Sea Kraken
Willbender
Quicksilver Dragon
Arcanis The Omnipotent
Rainbow Efreet
Chromeshell Crab
Keiga, The Tide Star
Metathran Aerostat
Aeon Chronicler
Body Double

Blue Spells:

Last Word
Evacuation
Govern The Guildless
Cancel
Spell Blast
Exclude
Rewind
Mystical Teachings
Whispers Of The Muse
Dissapate
Overwhelming Intellect
Time Stretch
Aquire
Repulse
Thwart
Stifle
Dominate
Forbid
Controvert
Squelch
Misdirection
Bribary
Force Of Will
Reins Of Power
Twincast
Blatant Thievery
Desertion
Dismiss
Minamo’s Meddling
Counterspell
Disrupting Shoal
Trickbind
Discombobulate
Fact Or Fiction
Deflection
Time Stop
Gift’s Ungiven
Ertai’s Meddling
Commandeer
Confoud
Intuition
Muddle The Mixture
Repeal
Hinder
Persuasion
Induce Paranoia
Spelljack
Fervent Denial
Foil
Opportunity
Interdict
Swat The Stars
Assert Authority
Remand
Wipe Away
Dismal Failure

Blue Enchantments:

Binding Grasp
Confiscate
Control Magic
Treachery

Black Creatures:

Kokusho, The Evening Star
Reiver Demon
Phage The Untouchable
Chainer, Dementia Master
Laquatus’s Champion
Spirit Of The Night
Ink-Eyes, Servant Of Oni
Infernal Spawn Of Infernal Spawn Of Evil
Sengir Nosferatu
Visara The Dreadful
Avatar Of Woe
Myojin Of Night’s Reach
Bringer Of The Black Dawn
Smokespew Invoker
Bane Of The Living
Withered Wretch
Scion Of Darkness
Infernal Spawn Of Evil
Plaguebearer
Hypnox
Lim-Dul, the Necromancer

Black Spells:

Beacon Of Unrest
Sickening Shoal
Barter In Blood
Overwhelming Forces
Dregs Of Sorrow
Chainer’s Edict
Phthisis
Death Denied
Corpse Dance
Chill To The Bone
Grim Harvest
Diabolic Edict
Expunge
Shred Memory
Decree Of Pain
Rend Flesh
Plague Wind
Cremate
Agonizing Demise
Annihilate
Slaughter
Living Death
Disembowel
Betrayal Of Flesh
Cruel Revival
Sudden Death
Promise Of Power
Skeletal Scrying
Headstone
Twilight’s Call
Coffin Purge
Rapid Decay
Damnation
Treacherous Urge

Black Enchantments:

Yawgmoth’s Agenda
Planeswalker’s Scorn
Fevered Convulsions
Enslave

White Creatures:

Combat Medic
Serra Avatar
Eternal Dragon
Reya Dawnbringer
Bringer Of The White Dawn
Glory
Eight-And-A-Half-Tails
Sunscape Battlemage
Karmic Guide
Myojin Of Cleansing Fire
Crowd Favorites
Akroma, Angel Of Wrath
Glarecaster
Blazing Archon
Jareth, Leonine Titan
Adarkar Valkyrie
Stonecloaker
Konda, Lord of Eiganjo

White Spells:

Once More With Feeling
Look At Me I’m The DCI
Second Thoughts
Invulnerability
Final Judgement
Storm Herd
Shining Shoal
Alter’s Light
Miraculous Recovery
AWOL
Radiant’s Judgement
Evangelize
Wrath Of God
Akroma’s Vengence
Dismantling Blow
Swords To Plowshares
Soulscour
Winds Of Wrath
Devouring Light
Boros Fury-Shield
Catastrophe
Wing Shards
Chastise
Exile
Return To Dust
Kirtar’s Wrath
Hail Of Arrows
Orim’s Thunder
Rout
Seed Spark
Pulse Of The Fields
Mirror Strike
Ray Of Distortion
Festival of the Guildpact

White Enchantments:

Cover Of Winter
Delyaying Shield
Safeguard

Red Creatures:

Bogardan Hellkite
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Rimescale Dragon
Bloodfire Colossus
Bringer Of The Red Dawn
Desolation Giant
Eron, the Relentless
Kamahl, Pit Fighter
Jiwari, The Earth Aflame
Furnace Dragon
Rorix Bladewing
Imperial Hellkite
Myojin Of Infinite Rage
Flowstone Overseer

Red Spells:

Pulse Of The Forge
Urza’s Rage
Heat Ray
Word Of Seizing
Devastation
Inferno
Cinder Cloud
Savage Beating
Reiterate
Grab The Reins
Shunt
Parallectric Feedback
Obliterate
Starstorm
Jokulhaups
Flowstone Slide
Fissure
Dwarven Catapult
Insurrection
Searing Wind
Decree Of Annihilation
Flash Conscription
Rain of Rust

Red Enchantments:

Task Mage Assembly

Green Creatures:

Verdant Force
Genesis
Plated Slagwurm
Nantuko Vigilante
Indrik Stomphowler
Uktabi Kong
Arashi, The Sky Asunder
Root Elemental
Eternal Witness
Myojin Of Life’s Web
Silvos, Rogue Elemental
Tornado Elemental
Timmy, Power Gamer
Krosan Cloudscraper
Thicket Elemental
Protean Hulk
Symbiotic Wurm
Child Of Gaea
Rhox
Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
Silklash Spider
Penumbra Wurm
Krosan Colossus

Green Spells:

Stonewood Invocation
Restock
Holistic Wisdom
Chord Of Calling
Beast Attack
Desert Twister
Hunting Pack
Bind
Krosan Grip
Tooth And Nail
Mystic Melting
Molder
All Suns Dawn
Crush Of The Wurms

Green Enchantments:

Fyndhorn Pollen
Tornado
Survival Of The Fittest

Gold Creatures:

Autochthon Wurm
Niv-Mizzet, The Firemind
Sisters Of Stone Death
Angel Of Despair
Izzet Chronarch
Arcades Sabboth
Simic Sky Swallower
Iname As One
Phantom Nishoba
Armored Guardian
Nicol Bolas
Mystic Snake
Deepfire Elemental
Kaervek The Merciless
Razia, Boros Archangel
Vampiric Dragon
Garza Zol, Plague Queen
Dimir Doppelganger
Firemane Angel
Iridescent Angel
Yore-Tiller Nephilim
Necrotic Sliver
Teneb, the Harvester

Gold Spells:

Vindicate
Treva’s Charm
Twisted Justice
Swift Silence
Wrecking Ball
Crosis’s Charm
Reflect Damage
Putrefy
Dromar’s Charm
Hymn Of Rebirth
Absorb
Mortify
Terminate
Eladamri’s Call
Captain’s Maneuver
Spinal Embrace
Undermine
Prophetic Bolt
Reviving Vapors
Voidslime
Backlash
Delirium

Gold Enchantments:

Pernicious Deed
Yavimaya Embrace

Artifact Creatures:

Platinum Angel
Darksteel Colossus
Draco
Nullstone Gargoyle
Duplicant
Bosh, Iron Golem
Suncrusher
Memnarch
Masticore
Pentavus
Colossus Of Sardia
Stuffy Doll

Artifacts:

Shield Of Ages
Mindslaver
Vedalken Orrery
Legacy Weapon
Grinning Totem
Quicksilver Amulet
Aladdin’s Ring
Gleemax
World-Bottling Kit
Plague Boiler
Tower Of Eons
Tatsumasa, The Dragon’s Fang
Oblivion Stone
Mirari
Citanul Flute
Panacea
Mind’s Eye
Soul Foundry
That Which Was Taken
Xanthic Statue
Door To Nothingness
Predator Flagship

Lands:

Karakas
Arena
Urza’s Factory
Kor Haven
Prahv, Spires Of Order
Sunhome, Fortress Of The Legion
Tomb Of Urami
Maze Of Ith
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Volrath’s Stronghold
Winding Canyons
Academy Ruins

Split:

Order/Chaos
Hit/Run
Crime/Punishment
Odds/Ends
Spite/Malice

Guild Mana:

Azorius Guildmage
Debtors’ Knell

EDIT JAN 26: Now with Planar Chaos additions and the cuts that came as a result of them. 

EDIT 04 FEB: Finished cutting nearly 40 cards and adding all the relevant PC additions.  The stack now plays better than ever, and the group I play with now is just as enthusiastic about the format as I am. 

[WhiteWolf]

Okay, I finally got my hands on all the new Time Spiral goodies. At this point my stack is as complete as I want it, barring Illusionary Mask (for wich I'm still looking for a good deal). I'm very happy as it feels completed ('till the next set that is, this block promises to be great).

Firebreathers

Avarax
Bladewing the Risen
Cinder Shade
Cromat
Dauthi Mercenary
Dragon Tyrant
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
Snarling Undorak
Stronghold Overseer
Two-Headed Dragon
Warbreak Trumpeter
Windreaver

Fat Men

Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Autochton Wurm
Bosh, Iron Golem
Crush of Wurms
Dark Depths
Darksteel Colossus
Draco
Eternal Dragon
Exalted Angel
Furnace Dragon
Garza Zol, Plague Queen
Greater Morphling
Grozoth
Hypnox
Imperial Hellkite
Iname as One
Infernal Spawn of Evil
Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil
Iridescent Angel
Kaervek the Merciless
Keiga, the Tide Star
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Konda, Lord of Eiganjo
Krosan Cloudscraper
Laquatus's Champion
Mist Dragon
Mortivore
Multani, Maro Sorcerer
Nicol Bolas
Panglacial Wurm
Phage, the Untouchable
Phantom Nishoba
Pit Spawn
Plated Slagwurm
Quicksilver Dragon
Razia, Boros Archangel
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Serra Avatar
Siege-Gang Commander
Silent Specter
Silvos, Rogue Elemental
Simic Sky Swallower
Spiritmonger
Spirit of the Night
Storm Herd
Uktabi Kong
Verdant Force
Weatherseed Totem
Xanthic Statue

Utility Men

Angel of Despair
Anger
Arashi, the Sky Asunder
Arcanis the Omnipotent
Armored Guardian
Avatar of Woe
Azorius Guildmage
Bane of the Living
Blazing Archon
Bloodfire Colossus
Bloodshot Cyclops
Bogardan Hellkite
Bringer of the Black Dawn
Bringer of the Blue Dawn
Bringer of the Green Dawn
Bringer of the Red Dawn
Bringer of the White Dawn
Carl, King of Games
Chainer, Dementia Master
Chromeshell Crab
Combat Medic
Crowd Favorites
Deepfire Elemental
Desolation Giant
Dimir Doppelganger
Djinn Illuminatus
Draining Whelk
Dralnu, Lich Lord
Duplicant
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Ertai, Wizard Adept
Eternal Witness
Filth
Fortune Thief
Genesis
Ghost-Lit Stalker
Glarecaster
Glory
Hisoka, Minamo Sensei
Homura, Human Ascendant
Hoverguard Sweepers
Indrik Stomphowler
Infernal Denizen
Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
Ith, High Arcanist
Jacques the Frenchie
Jareth, Leonine Titan
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Jiwari, the Earth Aflame
Johnny, Combo Player
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Lim-Dul, the Necromancer
Liz, Not-so-token Girl
Magus of the Disk
Memnarch
Metathran Aerostat
Mindleech Mass
Mischievous Quanar
Myojin of Cleansing Fire
Myojin of Life's Web
Myojin of Night's Reach
Mystic Snake
Nantuko Vigilante
Nezumi Graverobber
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Platinum Angel
Protean Hulk
Quicksilver Elemental
Reiver Demon
Reya Dawnbringer
Richard Garfield, PhD
Rimescale Dragon
Robert Leroy, Libertarian
Root Elemental
Silklash Spider
Sisters of Stone Death
Skinthinner
Sunscape Battlemage
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Thornscape Battlemage
Thunderscape Battlemage
Tidespout Tyrant
Timmy, Power Gamer
Tyrone-san the Emo
Vesuvan Shapeshifter
Visara the Dreadful
Voidmage Apprentice
Voidmage Husher
Voidmage Prodigy
Willbender
Withered Wretch

Ping Men

Consumptive Goo
Flowstone Overseer
Masticore
Plaguebearer
Smokespew Invoker
Vampiric Dragon

Mass Removal

Akroma’s Vengeance
Balance
Balancing Act
Decree of Annihilation
Decree of Pain
Distorting Wake
Dregs of Sorrow
Dwarven Catapult
Fevered Convulsions
Final Judgment
Flowstone Slide
Hour of Reckoning
Inferno
Obliterate
Oblivion Stone
Overwhelming Forces
Pernicious Deed
Plague Boiler
Plague Wind
Planeswalker’s Scorn
Rout
Soulscour
Starstorm
Upheaval

Pinpoint Removal

Agonizing Demise
Allay
Altar’s Light
Annihilate
Aura Blast
Awol
Barter in Blood
Betrayal of Flesh
Capsize
Chainer's Edict
Chaos Orb
Chastise
Clutch of the Undercity
Crooked Scales
Desert Twister
Devouring Light
Diabolic Edict
Dismantling Blow
Exile
Faith's Fetters
Fireblast
Fissure
Illuminate
Krosan Grip
Legacy Weapon
Molder
Mortify
Mystic Melting
Orim’s Thunder
Phthisis
Predator Flagship
Putrefy
Radiant's Judgment
Ray of Distortion
Return to Dust
Second Thoughts
Shattering Pulse
Shattering Spree
Sickening Shoal
Smash
Snuff Out
Strangling Soot
Sudden Death
Swords to Plowshares
Tendrils of Corruption
Tornado
Tsabo’s Decree
Twisted Justice
Void
Wipe Away

Counters

Absorb
Arcane Denial
Assert Authority
Controvert
Decree of Silence
Deflection
Desertion
Discombobulate
Dismiss
Disrupting Shoal
Dissipate
Dromar’s Charm
Ertai’s Meddling
Exclude
Fervent Denial
Fold into Aether
Forbid
Force of Will
Fork
Hinder
Induce Paranoia
Interdict
Last Word
Misdirection
Muddle the Mixture
Null Brooch
Overwhelming Intellect
Perplex
Reiterate
Reroute
Rewind
Spell Burst
Spell Counter
Spelljack
Suffocating Blast
Swift Silence
Thwart
Time Stop
Trickbind
Undermine
Vex
Voidslime

Stealing

Acquire
Blatant Thievery
Bribery
Commandeer
Confiscate
Dominate
Evangelize
Grab the Reins
Grinning Totem
Insurrection
Jacowned!
Mindslaver
Spinal Embrace
Thought Dissector
Vedalken Shackles
Word of Seizing
Yavimaya’s Embrace

Recursion

Academy Ruins
All Sun’s Dawn
Beacon of Unrest
Corpse Dance
Debtor's Knell
Grim Harvest
Holistic Wisdom
Hymn of Rebirth
Miracelous Recovery
Restock
Strands of Night
Twilight’s Call
Volrath’s Stronghold
Yawgmoth’s Agenda

Damage Prevention

Captain’s Maneuver
Chant of Vitu-Ghazi
Delaying Shield
Fyndhorn Pollen
Maze of Ith
Moment’s Peace
Panacea
Pravh, Spires of Order
Reverse Damage
Safeguard
Shield of the Ages
Shining Shoal

Life Gain

Ancestral Tribute
Beacon of Immortality
Granny’s Payback
Tower of Eons

Search

Aladdin’s Lamp
Chord of Calling
Citanul Flute
Congregation at Dawn
Crown of Convergence
Eladamri’s Call
Flash of Insight
Gifts Ungiven
Hibernation's End
Mystical Teachings
Night Dealings
Planar Portal
Soothsaying
Survival of the Fittest
Tooth and Nail

Draw

Armistice
Biomantic Mastery
Compulsion
Fact or Fiction
Future Sight
Heed the Mists
Mind’s Eye
Moonlight Bargain
Opportunity
Tower of Fortunes
Treasure Trove
Whispers of the Muse

Burn

Aladdin’s Ring
Beacon of Destruction
Kaboom!
Pyromancy
Rocket Launcher
Searing Wind
Urza's Rage
Volley of Boulders

Discard

Cabal Conditioning
Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace

Miscellaneous

Ach, Hans! Run!
Aggravated Assault
Beacon of Tomorrows
Blast from the Past
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Call of the Wild
Cauldron Dance
Crime/Punishment
Crosis's Charm
Decree of the Creator
Door to Nothingness
Dragon Beath
Dromar's Charm
Fist of Suns
Fury of the Horde
Ghitu Firebreathing
Gleemax
Hall of the Bandit Lord
Hide/Seek
Hit/Run
Hunting Grounds
In the Web of War
Leonin Sun Standard
Mirari
Mizzium Transreliquat
Muse Vessel
Night Soil
North Star
Planeswalker’s Misschief
Privileged Position
Promise of Power
Prophetic Bolt
Quicksilver Amulet
Reito Lantern
Sneak Attack
Soul Foundry
Spite/Malice
Staff of Domination
Sunforger
Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang
Temporal Aperture
Time Stretch
Tolarian Waterpark
Treva's Charm
Vedalken Orrery
Walk the Eons
Who/What/When/Where/Why
Winding Canyons

WhiteWolf

[Mr. Nightmare]

A few questions regarding card choices, and maybe even a couple you guys haven't used before (yeah right.).

What's the best way to errata Johnny, Combo Player to dumb him down enough to be really good, but not broken in half?  I was thinking of adding a "Once per turn" clause to his ability, but is that enough?  In a large game, it gives you the right answer to everything at all times.

Has anyone played Venomspout Brackus?  I noticed it in my crap rare box, and added it in.  So far it's been good, mostly killing Angels and some Dragons.  I liked him mostly because he Morphs.

Name Dropping.  I love it.  If you haven't played it yet, I reccommend giving it a try.  It adds a whole new facet to the game, and ends up being really, really strong for the controller.

Morphling/Greater Morphling - Can their power go below 0?  In other words, could I infinitely boost the toughness, and then reduce it to make him a 1000/1000, for instance?  If you can, I think I'll be errataing these, as well.

As far as the defense wins rule goes, how far does it extend?  Example:  I cast Memnarch.  None of my opponents counter it, but when I attempt to activate him and steal Platinum Angel, its controller casts Rend Flesh on Mem.  Under the normal rules, I get Platz, but Mem dies.  In T4, can I respond to the Rend Flesh by stealing everything on the table?

Thanks for the help guys, and I look forward to the comments!

[Harlequin]

As far as rules go:

Creatures can have negative Power (an technically negative toughness).  For any time a card attempts to view these numbers, any negative number is considered 0.   So like Spinal Paracite comes into play with no sunburst and you have something like ... Pandemonium... no one will "take -1 damage" (gain life?) it just gets read as 0.  This is true for damage as well.

So Morphling doesn't get any stronger than 5/1 on its own, because as you give it infini-toughness it keeps track of the negative power.  so (-5) / 8 is legal. 

The "defense" rule only appiles to Infinate abilites vrs Infinate abilites.  So Rend Flesh has nothing to do with this rule really.

[WhiteWolf]

Johnny, Combo Player: I play him without errata, because I love my superpowered stack and dislike errata (for ‘purity’ and simplicity purposes). IF I would have to errata him, I would probably go for the “once per turn” clause. That’s still strong, but in my eyes the most logical errata.

Venomspout Brackus: He’s definitely in my Type 4 binder (where I keep all Type 4 playables). At the moment though I really want to trim my stack and he didn’t make the cut the last time. I think the best the thing he has going fir him is the Morph, free creatures are great. Also, 5/5 is pretty decent if all else fails.

Name Dropping: This I never tried but I’m certainly going to. It could be pretty strong on its own but insane if you have an ally naming cards for you … (a little like Spell Counter).

The Big & Small Morphlings: Under the (normal) rules you can never make them infinite in that way. I cut the little one from my stack because he’s just inferior to the other one (and I don’t like tow versions of one card when one is clearly better).

WhiteWolf

[Mr. Nightmare]

On Greater Morphling:

I had to erratta him, since my group doesn't like infinite abilities.  With a creature defending, you can give him infinite Bushido, Double Strike, Trample, Haste, and Provoke.  This effectively makes him an (infinite)/(infinite) with evasion that can't be stopped or killed,  minus Rout or similar effects.  I sharpied Bushido out, and he seems pretty busted, but he's not an instant win anymore.

Momir Vig, Simic Visionary seems pretty fun, I'm testing him out now.  My stack is taking shape, and everyone is pretty excited to be playing Type 4.  It's actually becoming the focus at tournaments, almost moreso than the tournament itself.  We played for 7 hours on Saturday after our weekly draft was over, everyone had a blast.

[parallax]

Here is a card I submitted to the Card Creation Forum a while back that I think might be particularly relevant to your format.

Second Pick

Artifact Creature -- Construct
3/3
If you pick ~this~ during a draft, you may reveal it. At any time during the draft while ~this~ is revealed, you may pick an additional card from your pack. If you do, pass ~this~ to the next player along with that pack. That player adds ~this~ to his card pool instead of picking a card from that pack.

It might need some more Type 4 friendly stats.

Feel free to include it in your stacks and let me know how it goes.

[darkmindtone]

What is everyone's general take on equipment?  I've been running 6 pieces currently (both Swords, Tatsumasa, Skullclamp, Warhammer, and Fireshrieker), and now that I'm cutting cards for Planar Chaos I'm wondering if any of these other than Dragon Fang are actually strong enough for inclusion anymore.  I think the effects are awesome, but as individual cards these cards simply can't compare to the other cards in the stack (again, Tatsumasa is the exception).  I just wanted to get some second opinions on the subject.  Thanks. 

EDIT: Also, what is people's opinions on Weatherseed Totem?  I've been thinking about including it for a while, and it seems like a strong possibility.  It's immune to Wrath effects, and it can be very hard to deal with in the long run.

[WhiteWolf]

I only use Tatsumasa and Sunforger at the moment. Tatsumasa is very strong on it's own. Sunforger, although dependant on a creature in play, breaks the "one-spell-a-turn" rule.

I have included Weatherseed Totem for the reasons you give but it hasn't come up enough to really form an opinion yet.

WhiteWolf

[RaZe]

Sword of Paruns is also in my stack. Goes practical-win or insta-kill with enough creatures in the stack.

[Harlequin]

I personally like equipment. Tatsumasa happens to be an equipment, but I wouldn't count it as one ... Skull clamp is not really an equipment iether.  In most stacks its an artifact that basically reads "Sac a token: draw 2 cards at sorcery speed."
 
So outside of that I run:
 SoFI
 Scyth of the Wretched
 Fireshreiker
 Sunforger
 Lightning Greaves
 Worldslayer

Anything that promotes playing creatures is a good thing in Type 4, sometimes it can get down to no one wants to put a creature in play.

[Mr. Nightmare]

Aeon Chronicler is redic.  I'm considering adding Pull From Eternity just to deal with him (plus, I've wanted a Wish-type spell in the stack for a while, and that's the least broken one).

[darkmindtone]

Aeon Chronicler is redic.  I'm considering adding Pull From Eternity just to deal with him (plus, I've wanted a Wish-type spell in the stack for a while, and that's the least broken one).

I agree he's been quite strong so far.  Not strong enough to warrant cards like Pull From Eternity being included, but still a fine card. 

One card that's been quite strong as well, but not broken, is Planeswalker's Mischief.  The sorcery speed activation definitely keeps the card in check, and once everyone gets over the fact that it has a bazillion words in the text box it proves to be a solid addition to the stack.  In fact it recently won the game by simply making the Tooth and Nail in my hand essentially uncounterable except to onboard effects. 

[darkmindtone]

Aeon Chronicler is redic.  I'm considering adding Pull From Eternity just to deal with him (plus, I've wanted a Wish-type spell in the stack for a while, and that's the least broken one).

I was definitely wrong on this one.  Over the past few months we've played with Chronicler, and he's gotten to the point where we're probably going to remove him because of how powerful he is.  The problem is you simply can't do anything once the player suspends him.  Mind's Eye you can destroy, Whispers of the Muse you can counter, Tower of Fortunes (if you play it) can be destroyed as well (albeit it will still gain you massive card advantage usually).  I don't think a single Pull From Eternity can do it often or consistently enough to be worth inclusion, but I could be wrong. 

[Mr. Nightmare]

I hate to say I told you so, but....

I'm also probably going to remove him.  He's simply too hard to deal with.

[Sam101]

I agree with removing Aeon Chronicler.  The card quality provided by his suspend just makes games unfair.  Also, what do you folks think about errating certain cards?  (For examble, taking fire breathing off Akroma, Angel of Fury)

Sam

[Necrologia]

Erratas are fine as long as you don't go overboard with them. My stack has an Aether Mutation that's an instant. No one wanted to cast it during their main phase, but it's a fun effect so I tweaked it. A while ago we cut Quanar for being too strong, but before that we errata'd its use to once a turn to try and keep it in check.

Hmm, now that I think about it, I could probably toss Quanar back in. The stack's changed a ton since it was last in. Now I just need to find it again.

[Jacob Orlove]

I errata'd a few cards for my Kamigawa block stack, mostly removing phrases like "If you control a swamp" from cards.

I recommend, though, that cards be "errata'd" with a sharpie (on the sleeve, if you're a wuss). It's just much easier on everyone when there's nothing to remember but what's on the cards.

[Mr. Nightmare]

My group has this errata:

Quanar - Once per spell.
Betrayal of Flesh - Entwine = 3 life.
Kor Haven - Plains (you can Plainscycle for it)
Johnny, Combo Player - Haste, Taps to activate (effectively another Planar Portal)
W/W/W/W/W - Target player's life total becomes 20 (to help with Molder-Gleemax, which happens a lot for some reason)

Everything but Quanar is written right on the card.

[Jet]

My group has this errata:

Quanar - Once per spell.
Betrayal of Flesh - Entwine = 3 life.

Everything but Quanar is written right on the card.

I've seen other T4 stacks use that errata, but I use a different one because that one doesn't actually do anything. Quanar copies are new objects and should be legal targets for another Quanar flip
I went with limiting his flip face down ability to once per a turn. Gives you up to 2 uses in one turn, and a bit of skill testing on when to flip him back down.

Betrayal of Flesh is entwine 0.
Jokulmorder: in my stack has Trample, and lots of blacked out lines in his text box.
Kumano: has 'or player' removed
Krosan Tusker: Removed "basic"
Death of a thousand stings: changed "each" to "a"
Akuta: Removed "sacrifice a swamp" and changed "each" to "a"
Wurmweaver coil: Removed green
Stronghold overseer: removed "+1/+0"
And removed mention of basic lands from cards like incarnations and shackles.

Except for Quanar and Betrayal, all my errata is using a sharpie to remove text. Removing text seems to be easier for players to understand than adding or changing text.

[elgoff]

Here's a link to my alphabetical Type 4 list. It also include cards not in the stack yet but that I have to incorporate sooner or later...

Not all of Futur Sight cards are included.

Alex Type 4 List : http://mtgquebec.walknet.org/viewtopic.php?t=3136
(french text but all cards are english...)

I'll create a post later on with a detailed listing.

[elgoff]

I agree with removing Aeon Chronicler.  The card quality provided by his suspend just makes games unfair.  Also, what do you folks think about errating certain cards?  (For examble, taking fire breathing off Akroma, Angel of Fury)

Sam

You just have to add cards that will remove suspended cards...like pull from eternity and the new green guy that shuffle back a suspended card.

I don't put any erratas...I prefer not to play the card.

So NO FIREBREATHING abilities and NO X spells (a la Fireball).

[Harlequin]

I like putting some X cards in the stack, but no dirrect damage ones.  Right now for x-mana kill cards I have:

Balduvian Hydra
Wicked Akuba (spelling?)
Dragon Whelp

I also play a bunch of damage reversal cards as well as cards a few cards that have damage redirrection or cards that make creatures deal damage equal to its power to their owners.  So they are not that unbalanced.

[darkmindtone]

Since nobody has posted a stack for the better part of a year, I'll give you all my current stack for reference.  Over the past few months we've been doing trimming here and there to make the stack play out in a similar fashion to traditional competitive magic on a much larger scale.  This means that we've cut all the cards that aren't specifically beneficial for the player casting them, such as Nullstone Gargoyle, Living Death/Twilight's Call, and Sway the Stars/Once More with Feeling.  Also, trimming the power level of cards has helped add to the level of enjoyment by those playing by removing troublesome cards such as Citanul Flute, Tower of Fortunes, and Survival.  As it currently stands (360 cards):

Blue:

Gift's Ungiven
Muddle the Mixture
Thwart
Commandeer
Squelch
Vesuvan Doppelganger
Foil
Forbid
Venser, Shaper Savant
Spelljack
Counterspell
Decree of Silence
Cancel
Evacuation
Dismiss
Dissipate
Controvert
Mystical Teachings
Discombobulate
Dismal Failure
Remand
Keiga, the Tidal Star
Ertai's Meddling
Trickbind
Grozoth
Bringer of the Blue Dawn
Time Stop
Voidmage Apprentice
Intuition
Deflection
Voidmage Prodigy
Opportunity
Bribery
Voidmage Husher
Deep-Sea Kraken
Induce Paranoia
Hoverguard Sweepers
Chromeshell Crab
Minamo's Meddling
Spelljack
Last Word
Fact or Fiction
Acquire
Overwhelming Intellect
Spin Into Myth
Exclude
Misdirection
Take Posession
Time Stretch
Sakashima, the Imposter
Fervent Denial
Confiscate
Twincast
Mist Dragon
Rainbow Efreet
Clone
Repeal
Morphling
Body Double
Disrupting Shoal
Willbender
Force of Will
Hinder
Vesuvan Shapeshifter
Wipe Away
Arcanis the Omnipotent
Dominate
Draining Whelk
Blatant Thievery
Ertai, Wizard Adept
Rewind
Whispers of the Muse
Desertion
Assert Authority
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Tidal Kraken
Repulse
Tidespout Tyrant
Pact of Negation

Red:

Word of Seizing
Rorix Bladwing
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Furnace Dragon
Shunt
Myojin Of Infinite Rage
Scourge Of Kher Ridges
Rain Of Rust
Rimescale Dragon
Imperial Hellkite
Heat Ray
Devastation
Savage Beating
Jiwari, the Earth Aflame
Insurrection
Flowstone Slide
Pulse of the Forge
Bringer of the Red Dawn
Desolation Giant
Parallectric Feedback
Obliterate
Starstorm
Kamahl, Pit Fighter
Cinder Cloud
Dwarven Catapult
Searing Wind
Decree of Annihilation
Bogardan Hellkite
Flowstone Overseer
Grab the Reins
Urza's Rage
Inferno
Jokulhaups
Reiterate
Bloodfire Colossus
Fork
Fissure
Crimson Hellkite
Boldwyr Intimidator
Riddle of Lightning
Siege-Gang Commander
Eron the Relentless
Brimstone Dragon

Black:

Beacon of Unrest
Corpse Dance
Pthisis
Yawgmoth's Agenda
Infernal Spawn of Evil
Laquatus's Champion
Diabolic Edict
Chill To The Bone
Barter In Blood
Lim-Dul the Necromancer
Withered Wretch
Rend Flesh
Scion of Darkness
Fevered Convulsions
Sickening Shoal
Chainer, Dementia Master
Phage, the Untouchable
Agonizing Demise
Damnation
Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
Rapid Decay
Skeletal Scrying
Avatar of Woe
Sengir Nosferatu
Promise of Power
Myojin of Night's Reach
Betrayal of Flesh
Smokespew Invoker
Disembowel
Planeswalker's Scorn
Sudden Death
Spirit of the Night
Annihilate
Dregs of Sorrow
Plague Wind
Treacherous Urge
Hypnox
Coffin Purge
Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Decree of Pain
Cremate
Enslave
Death Denied
Reiver Demon
Shred Memory
Visara the Dreadful
Overwhelming Forces
Grim Harvest
Bane of the Living
Cruel Revival
Bringer of the Black Dawn
Slaughter
Chainer's Edict
Skinthinner
Phyrexian Gargantua

White:

Blazing Archon
Karmic Guide
Chastise
Kirtar's Wrath
Wind's Of Wrath
Evangelize
Akroma, Angel Of Wrath
Ray of Distortion
Crowd Favorites
Final Judgement
Orim's Thunder
Angel of Salvation
Serra Avatar
Glarecaster
Return to Dust
Miraculous Recovery
Seed Spark
Storm Herd
Rout
Look at Me, I'm the DCI
Festival of the Guildpact
Cover of Winter
Shining Shoal
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Sunscape Battlemage
Exhile
Soulscour
Delaying Shield
Combat Medic
Eternal Dragon
Bringer of the White Dawn
Wing Shards
Invulnerability
Second Thoughts
Pristine Angel
Safeguard
Stonecloaker
Pulse of the Fields
Myojin of Cleansing Fire
Dismantling Blow
Akroma's Vengence
Swords to Plowshares
Alter's Light
Glory
Wrath of God
Jareth, Leonine Titan
Reya Dawnbringer
Catastrophe
Konda, Lord of Eiganjo

Green:

Rhox
Genesis
Bind
Protean Hulk
Krosan Grip
Arashi, the Sky Asunder
Crush of Wurm
Thicket Elemental
Silvos, Rogue Elemental
Molder
Myojin of Life's Web
Beast Attack
Sprout Swarm
Eternal Witness
Plated Slagwurm
Holistic Wisdom
Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
Verdant Force
Hunting Pack
Krosan Cloudscraper
Indrik Stomphowler
Symbiotic Wurm
Restock
Krosan Colossus
Tornado Elemental
Silklash Spider
Timmy, Power Gamer
Stonewood Invocation
Chord of Calling
All Suns Dawn
Fyndhorn Pollen
Nantuko Vigilante
Mystic Melting
Child of Gaea
Root Elemental
Uktabi Kong
Desert Twister
Tornado
Tooth and Nail
Penumbra Wurm

Gold:

Sisters of Stone Death
Simic Sky Swallower
Swift Silence
Phantom Nishoba
Mortify
Absorb
Backlash
Izzet Chronarch
Firemane Angel
Razia, Boros Archangel
Spinal Embrace
Arcades Sabboth
Hymn of Rebirth
Putrefy
Iridescent Angel
Pernicious Deed
Kaervek, the Merciless
Terminate
Vindicate
Vampiric Dragon
Twisted Justice
Voidslime
Nicol Bolas
Prophetic Bolt
Angel of Despair
Crosis' Charm
Necrotic Sliver
Yavimaya's Embrace
Eladamri's Call
Reflect Damage
Teneb, the Harvester
Dimir Doppelganger
Dromar's Charm
Reviving Vapors
Armored Guardian
Captain's Maneuver
Mystic Snake
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Undermine
Garza Zol, Plague Queen
Treva's Charm
Wrecking Ball
Deepfire Elemental
Clutch of the Undercity
Spiritmonger
Cauldron Dance

Artifacts:

Memnarch
Xanthic Statue
Aladdin's Ring
Shield of the Ages
Masticore
Stuffy Doll
Oblivion Stone
Mirari
Grinning Totem
Platinum Angel
Soul Foundry
Plague Boiler
Gleemax
Bosh, Iron Golem
Vedalken Orrery
Darksteel Colossus
Pentavus
Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang
Quicksilver Amulet
Panacea
Mindslaver
Duplicant
Mind's Eye
Suncrusher
Door to Nothingness
Legacy Weapon
Tower of Eons
World-Bottling Kit
Predator Flagship
Draco

Lands:

Volrath's Stronghold
Winding Canyons
Urza's Factory
Prahv, Spires of Order
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
Maze of Ith
Karakas
Kor Haven
Arena

Split:

Hit/Run
Crime/Punishment
Odds/Ends
Spite/Malice

Guild Mana:

Azorius Guildmage
Debtors' Knell

[redmage419]

Well, here's my current stack...

Artifacts/Art. Creatures
Altar of Shadows
Bosh, Iron Golem
Citanul Flute
Door to Nothingness
Draco
Duplicant
Grinning Totem
Masticore
Mindslaver
Panacea
Platinum Angel
Quicksilver Amulet
Soul Foundry
Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang
Thought Dissector

Black
Barter in Blood
Chainer, Dementia Master
Cremate
Cruel Revival
Dawn of the Dead
Decree of Pain
Enslave
Grim Harvest
Headstone
Phage the Untouchable
Plaguebearer
Skinthinner
Smokespew Invoker
Spirit of the Night
Sudden Death
Vigor Mortis
Visara the Dreadful

Blue
Acquire
Aeon Chronicler
Arcane Denial
Arcanis the Omnipotent
Assert Authority
Aven Fateshaper
Blatant Thievery
Bringer of the Blue Dawn
Cognivore
Confiscate
Controvert
Counterspell
Desertion
Discombobulate
Dissipate
Dominate
Evacuation
Exclude
Fatespinner
Fervent Denial
Future Sight
Hoverguard Sweepers
Induce Paranoia
Interdict
Last Word
Minamo's Meddling
Muddle the Mixture
Rewind
Riptide Shapeshifter
Stifle
Stormscape Battlemage
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Time Stop
Venser, Shaper Savant
Vex
Voidmage Apprentice
Voidmage Husher
Voidmage Prodigy
Willbender

Green
Arashi, the Sky Asunder
Desert Twister
Gigapede
Goliath Spider
Hunting Pack
Krosan Cloudscraper
Krosan Grip
Nantuko Vigilante
Night Soil
Penumbra Wurm
Plated Slagwurm
Root Elemental
Silklash Spider
Silvos, Rogue Elemental
Survival of the Fittest
Symbiotic Wurm
Timbermare

Red
Bash to Bits
Bogardan Hellkite
Decree of Annihilation
Desolation Giant
Dwarven Catapult
Fissure
Flash Conscription
Flowstone Slide
Furnace Dragon
Grab the Reins
Heat Ray
Imperial Hellkite
Inferno
Insurrection
Kaboom!
Myojin of the Infinite Rage
Obliterate
Riddle of Lightning
Rorix Bladewing
Shunt
Starstorm
Word of Seizing

White
Boros Fury-Shield
Chastise
Dismantling Blow
Eternal Dragon
Festival of the Guildpact
Final Judgment
Glarecaster
Jareth, Leonine Titan
Kirtar's Wrath
Orim's Thunder
Ray of Distortion
Rout
Second Thoughts
Seht's Tiger
Soulscour
Stonecloaker
Sunscape Battlemage
Swords to Plowshares
Wrath of God

Multi/Guild/Split
Artifact Mutation
Azorius Guildmage
Dromar's Charm
Garza Zol, Plague Queen
Goblin Flectomancer
Izzet Chronarch
Necrotic Sliver
Order/Chaos
Pernicious Deed
Phantom Nishoba
Putrefy
Spiritmonger
Spite/Malice
Teneb, the Harvester
Terminate
Trial/Error
Tsabo Tavoc
Vampiric Dragon
Vindicate

Land
Kor haven
Maze of Ith
Winding Canyons

As it stands; I'm currently sitting at 151 cards. It seems to run alright with three players, but how many cards would those of you who follow the format recommend?

Edit: July 10, 2007, updated list:
- Oversold Cemetery
- Hunted Lammasu ~ Diplomatic spells/creatures can be fun (i.e. Vex, Arcane Denial, etc.), but I wanted more utility. 
+ Grim Harvest
+ Visara the Dreadful

Edit: September 04, 2007
- Mourner's Shield
- Oblivion Stone
- Plague Boiler
- Shield of the Ages
- Betrayal of Flesh
- Dark Banishing
- Diabolic Edict
- Promise of Power
- Scion of Darkness
- Breakthrough
- Control Magic
- Flash of Insight
- Pulse of the Grid
- Reweave
- Spell Blast
- Temporal Adept
- Tidal Kraken
- Bringer of the Green Dawn
- Altar's Light
- Crowd Favorites
- Restrain
- Solar Tide
- Sunscour
+ Decree of Pain
+ Enslave
+ Sudden Death
+ Aeon Chronicler
+ Bringer of the Blue Dawn
+ Desertion
+ Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
+ Krosan Grip
+ Timbermare
+ Flash Conscription
+ Flowstone Slide
+ Myojin of the Infinite Rage
+ Riddle of Lightning
+ Boros Fury-Shield
+ Dismantling Blow
+ Final Judgment
+ Rout
+ Seht's Tiger
+ Stonecloaker
+ Swords to Plowshares
+ Garza Zol, Plague Queen
+ Necrotic Sliver
+ Teneb, the Harvester

Edit: September 10, 2007
- Cancel
- Havoc Demon
+ Time Stop
+ Venser, Shaper Savant

[A.-1.]

Depending on how you divvy up the cards, your stack of 151 seems fine. Or if you just play with one large shared library that also works as well. With our stack of ~350-400, I have no idea of the exact count, we usually just divide the stack in an equal number of piles to go along with however many people are playing. This works out to anywhere from between 40-60 cards per library and the games have run smoothly. You could also try Booster draft, although with three people I wouldn't recommend it, or you could Rochester draft, which is fun with any number of people.

[redmage419]

Thanks for the response. So far we've stuck with Rochester drafting; it can be almost as fun as the games themselves, and it adds a bit of strategical value to cards like Acquire. I would like to bump up the numbers though (high enough to accommodate 4-5 players). I've actually got a growing stack of cards that I'd like to add as soon as I pick up some more matching sleeves.

Thanks again,
RM

[A.-1.]

Our group would also agree that Rochester, despite being the most time consuming, is probably the most enjoyable way to divide the cards. Trying to draft a combo deck like Vampiric Dragon/Glarecaster and actually making it work when everyone knows that you drafted it is always a good time.
If you're adding new cards in order to accommodate more players, you probably want each person to have no less than a 30 card deck. Anything less than that and several players could deck themselves and no one wants to lose like that.
Clear penny sleeves, if any company still makes them, are great for a Type 4 stack since most of the cards aren't worth much. Don't worry about having mismatching sleeves. If you have 50 sleeves with red backs, 50 with blue, 50 with black, etc. it won't really matter. Sometimes this can be even fun with trying to remember what color sleeve morph creatures have.

[Harlequin]

When we draft, we do that 'pile' draft.  We can draft 250 card type4 stack to 3 ppl in about 10 mins.  I've posted this method somewhere but I can't find it - so here it is again.

Start by shuffling the entire stack and givinging TWO equal stacks to each player.  So if there are 3 players, you need 6 equal stacks (2 for each), 4 players you need 8 equal stacks, etc.   Each player should give the stacks a quick shuffle, and sets the stacks face down.  Sit in a circle, so all players can see.  Set a draft order, and deside who is going first.

The draft begins with each player taking the top two cards from EACH stack and making a small pile in front of the stack.   So lets assume there are 3 players: There will be 6 face down stacks, and 6 piles of 2 cards face up.   Who ever is first, picks thier favorite face up pile and takes it - and stores it separately as thier Draft Deck.   

Now there are 5 piles of two face up cards, and one empty pile.   For each Pile that is not empty, the player takes a card from the face down stack, and adds it face up to the pile.  For the empty pile, 2 cards are turned face up.  So, now there should be 5 piles of 3 cards, and 1 pile of 2 cards.  Now draft possition 2 take's his/her pick from all 6 piles.  So they could take a pile of 3 cards, -or- the pile of 2 cards.  Lets assume that seed 1 took Pile "C" and seed 2 took Pile "D".

Now all players flip again:

A: 3 cards + 1 card = 4 cards
B: 3 cards + 1 card = 4 cards
C: 2 cards + 1 card = 3 cards
D: 0 cards + 2 cards = 2 cards
E: 3 cards + 1 card = 4 cards
F: 3 cards + 1 card = 4 cards

Now 3rd seed picks a pile to add to thier draft deck, and you flip again. 

Notes:
> You have to take the entire pile!  And you have to play all the cards you draft.  So if there is one good card and a ton of crap - you get the ton of crap too.
> When you flip cards, if your pile has cards in it, it gets +1 card; if the pile is empty, it gets +2 cards.
> You continue flipping until there are no more cards in that stack - and players continue picking until there are no more piles to pick.
> The piles will average out to be about 5-7 cards each.  Often one "bad" pile will get really really large... thats ok, just keep flipping and eventually it will get some powerhouse and it will get taken.  If not someone will get stuck with it at the end.
> We usually invoke a rule that says you have 15 secs to pick a pile, otherwise you automatically get the largest pile.


This system is nice because it alows players to customize thier decks with the cards they love - while semi-randomly distributing the "filler" cards that are late picks in Rochester Draft.  This way, you get the ability to customize your deck ... a little, and it doesn't take all night to draft - to end up only playing 1 or 2 games.

[asi]

I'm currently building a stack (with Riddle of Lightning/Judge unworthy "brokeness"), but I won't be able to play with more than one other player. Do you recommend this format for duels?

If I get positive replies, I'll post my (provisory) Stack.