Type 4 Stack Lists and Resources

[iamfishman]

Actually posting the cards in your stack is sooooooooooo last year.

Check out the pics of the best type 4 stack evar!

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/index.php?topic=24933.0

[Mr. Type 4]

So Iamfishman must be Ray.  Ray, I lost your address, but if you're comming to Waterbury I'll have to bring you some cool T4 promos for your stack.  I'll have to edit my stack list for the most current additions and post it up soon.

[Matt]

"If" he comes to Waterbury? Doesn't Ray, you know, run the damn thing?

[Mr. Type 4]

Well, I hope someone would carry on in his stead if he was mortally wounded or something

[darkmindtone]

So any thoughts on the new cards from Guildpact possibly making the stack?  So far I've seen these that seem to warrent inclusion:

Storm Herd (I'm hoping it's not too ridiculous to cause me to remove it)
Frazzle
Parralectric Feedback
Angel Of Despair
Goblin Flectomancer
Killer Instinct
Niz-Mizzet, The Firemind
Mortify
Debtor's Knell

possibles:
Skarrg, The Rage Pits
Cerebral Vortex
Petrified Wood-Kin
Seize The Soul
Drowning Buerocrats

[49 Cents]

I missed Borborygmos, possibly Gigadrowse, POSSIBLY even Grull War Plow (because it doesn't get hit by mass crit removal), Izzet Chronarch, possibly Leyline of Lifeforce (if you have a creature based pile), Living Inferno, Nivix, Aerie of the Firemind, possibly Repeal, possibly Sanguine Praetor (creaturepile), Savage Twister, possibly Skarrgan Firebird and possibly Sky Swallower (non-creature based piles) on your list. It depends what kind of pile you play I'd say. I play a creature based pile, so mass Bounce/removal/tap0rz is welcome.

[Renagade]

I also think Thunderheads, and Sword of Paruns are good in a creature stack

[Dozer]

Don't forget Rumbling Slum and Wurmweaver Coil (if you have enough green creatures, that is). I also like Skarrgan Firebreaker, Bioplasm and Yore-Tiller Nephilim.

[Jet]

Don't forget Rumbling Slum and Wurmweaver Coil (if you have enough green creatures, that is). I also like Skarrgan Firebreaker, Bioplasm and Yore-Tiller Nephilim.

Wurmweaver coil is so much better if you take a Sharpie to the word green.

[Mr. Type 4]

And Shattering Spree is really good in there, it's practically uncounterable.  I have Cerebral Vortex, it's pretty good, even if it does only draw you two, but theres always that chance one of your opponents will become a card-whore all of a sudden. 

Dissension looks amazing for T4 as it stands right now, and we know so few of the cards.  I'm really excited.  Void Slime, Azorius Guildmage, Crime//Punishment are all auto-include.

[CwaM]

Could anyone give me an updated list of his T4 stack?
I discovered this format yesterday and i already want to build one

[CwaM]

I'm currently building my own t4 stack, and I'm beginning with counters and wraths effects

30 COUNTER/MISDI
Absorb
Assert Authority
Bind
Confound
Decree of Silence
Deflection
Desertion
Discombobulate
Dismiss
Dissipate
Fervent Denial
Forbid
Interdict
Last Word
Misdirection
Mystic Snake
Null Brooch
Overwhelming Intellect
Shunt
Spelljack
Spite / Malice
Squelch
Swift Silence
Time Stop
Undermine
Voidmage Apprentice
Voidmage Prodigy
Voidslime
Who/What/When/Where/Why
Willbender


35 WRATH
Akroma's Vengeance
Barter in Blood
Catastrophe
Crime / Punishment
Decree of Annihilation
Decree of Pain
Desolation Giant
Devastation
Dregs of Sorrow
Dwarven Catapult
Flowstone Slide
Forced March
Hour of Reckoning
Inferno
Jokulhaups
Kirtar's Wrath
Myojin of Cleansing Fire
Nevinyrral's Disk
Obliterate
Pernicious Deed
Plague Wind
Planeswalker's Scorn
Rare-B-Gone
Reiver Demon
Retribution of the Meek
Rout
Savage Twister
Solar Tide
Soulscour
Starstorm
Tsabo's Decree
Void
Winds of Rath
World-Bottling Kit
Wrath of God

I don't even know if 30 counters + 35 wrathes are enough/too much for a t4 stack, but I guess it's a good number and I don't want a too big stack more a quality than a quantity one

Any suggestions?

[carlossb]

I´ve been playing nearly all my games with only another player, and I´ve come up with a few rules to make the games last a little longer and make them more interesting:

1) Picks:
Lay 20 cards face up, players pick one each time. Repeat 3 more times (so each player has 40 cards).

2) Starting hand:
Only 4 cards. Mulligan is allowed.

3) Starting life:
30.


Does anybody play with only another player?. Which rules do you apply?

[Nefarias]

I don't even know if 30 counters + 35 wrathes are enough/too much for a t4 stack, but I guess it's a good number and I don't want a too big stack more a quality than a quantity one

Any suggestions?

I also adhere to quality over quantity, and for that reason only include the best mass removal and only counters that are better than counterspell.  Your counterspell list looks fine, but your mass removal seems a bit high. For one, Tsabo's Decree, World Bottling Kit, Void, and Crime/Punishment (that's X, not X or less, right?) should be viewed as spot removal that doesn't target, so it kills stuff like Morphling, Plated Slagwurm, and Arcanis (TD & Void). Still, I think there's too many. Find the ones that are doing the most in your stack, and then take out the rest. I know that a lot of people just put in all (or most) mass removal in existance, and that's fine too, but if you want a smaller stack with a higher concentration of goodness, that number needs to come down.

I haven't played in forever, but IIRC, my group is running the following cards mentioned:
(Tsabo's Decree)
(World Bottling Kit)
Decree of Annihilation
Myojin of Cleansing Fire
Obliterate
Pernicious Deed
Plague Wind
Rout
...and I think a few others not mentioned. Smokespew Invoker and Flowstone Overseer come to mind. All in all, we probably have 10-12 in a ~180 card stack.

Does anybody play with only another player?. Which rules do you apply?

Usually when I play with only one other player, it's just to kill five minutes or something. I have played "serious" T4 duels a couple of times, though, and didn't change much. We generally keep the rules the same, just change the drafting method. I think it's called "Solomon Drafting," aka Fact or Fiction draft. One player takes the top 4 cards from the stack and makes two pile of two cards each. The other player chooses a pile to draft into his/her deck and the splitter gets the other one for their deck. The players take turns being the splitter. This doesn't really deal with your issue of games not lasting long enough, because we didn't encouter the problem enough to worry about it. The craziness of it made it interesting to us, but I'm sure it quickly loses its appeal if that's the only way you play.

[CwaM]

After some brainstorming, here is the current counter wrath list:

28 counters (better than counterspell)
        Absorb
        Assert Authority
        Bind
        Confound
        Decree of Silence
        Deflection
        Desertion
        Discombobulate
        Dismiss
        Dissipate
        Fervent Denial
        Forbid
        Induce Paranoia
        Interdict
        Last Word
        Misdirection
        Null Brooch
        Overwhelming Intellect
        Radiate
        Shunt
        Spelljack
        Spite / Malice
        Squelch
        Swift Silence
        Time Stop
        Undermine
        Voidslime
        Who/What/When/Where/Why


20 Wrath(better than Wrath of God)
        Akroma's Vengeance
        Crime / Punishment
        Decree of Annihilation
        Decree of Pain
        Dregs of Sorrow
        Dwarven Catapult
        Evacuation
        Inferno
        Jokulhaups
        Nevinyrral's Disk
        Obliterate
        Pernicious Deed
        Plague Wind
        Rare-B-Gone
        Rout
        Soulscour
        Starstorm
        Tsabo's Decree
        Void
        World-Bottling Kit


And I played few games this week end, and simic sky swallower was a house 

Any suggestions on the lists?

[Mr. Type 4]

I play with 45 counters (I can't recall them all to list them here) and the vary pretty much from Amazing (Decree, Desertion) to vanilla(Counterspell, Mana Drain, Foil) limited(Red Blast, Annul) and weak (Vex) but I think they all are go 1-5 pick in an eight card Rochester pile.

Wraths I play fewer of, I don't know what the exact count is, but it's probably only like 15.
Your list doesn't have Oblivion Stone, which is pretty good.

[Generic]

I am currently building a Type 4 stack, and have been playing this format for the past week or so.  After playing the format, I quickly realized which cards are just too broken to be included.  For example, Consumptive Goo is WAY too broken....trust me on this one.

Needless to say, I've got nearly all the same cards, or am currently trading to include the ones listed that I currently don't have, and playtesting to ensure the deck is balanced.  I did notice however, that there was one card in my stack that hasn't made anyone's list so far:  Pox.

I think it's a fun card, as well as a great removal spell....without being too political or one sided.  It doesn't get countered very often, as usually everyone gets blasted equally. and it does hurt those with board supremacy, and equalizes things on the board a bit.   You should see some of the expressions on my opponent's face when I've cast this....priceless!

Your thoughts?

[Mr. Type 4]

I agree on Consumptive Goo, unless you like short games.  The secret to breaking goo is "almost killing" every creature on the board each turn, and then damaging the goo itself.  That thing grows exponentially. 

Digression about POX

Pox falls into the "is it a good enough sorcery?" catagory.  As you deck increases in power level, I imagine that cards like Pox naturally fall out of favor because they become weak in comparison to other effects.  The life loss and the hand size thing is nice, but generally the desired effect of Pox is to nail some perms, and it seems like it's stronger when there are lots of them to hit, or conversely, one strong one.  Pox sucks when your opponent has one good creature and one bad one.  Also, the land removal effect is mostly a wash on this card, although there are a few better lands out there nowadays(like Prahv, Spires of Order). 

Final Verdict- Pox is actually pretty good.  It makes people lose life instead of taking damage which is a plus vs damage prevention effects, it makes people sacrifice creatures, which is a plus against the plethora of effects that protect your dudes.  The problem is that most of the time all you really want something of this nature to do is blow the board, and often, Pox cannot deliver.  Do you want Pox of Plague Wind?  Pox or Rout? Pox or Decree of Pain?  How often do you care about dealing 1/3 life loss and 1/3 discard?  Pox fills a nice little niche in that it's unique in how it does all these things, but it lives in the shadow of it's big brothers as it doesn't wrath completely.  In the end I think that the inclusion of Pox will be based on how many Wrath effects you want to include.  If you want 20-25 wraths, Pox probably fits.  If you want 15-20, probably not. 

[RaZe]

I agree on Consumptive Goo, unless you like short games.  The secret to breaking goo is "almost killing" every creature on the board each turn, and then damaging the goo itself.  That thing grows exponentially.

Goo has a special rule to it in my stack. It cannot target itself. That is due to the fact that Goo goes infinite the turn it comes into play with inifinite mana. That is cuz checking wether the creature dies doesn't happen until the entire ability is resolved. Otherwise it's no different than firebreathing creatures.

[Mr. Type 4]

Consuptive Goo = SICK

CASE CLOSED 

[Harlequin]

First off I cannot claim responsiblity for "inventing" this idea.  I bascially stole it from a guy who's name totally escapes me - Its a tall thin guy with long back hair/beard, he used to judge and play in alot of events in New England (always was trying to break Possesed Portal.dec).  So I really appologies for stealing your idea and posting it ... without remembering your name =(...


Critical Mass Type 4 -

Flavor - When multiple plainswalkers gather in one place with total disregaurd for multiverse (ie they are playing type 4).  There is alot of excess energy causeing a strain on the very fabric of reality ... and the multiverse reacts in strange and unpredictable ways...

What is a Critical Mass Stack.  Quite simply the "critical mass" stack consists of 20-40 cards that compliments your type 4 "play" stack.  No player controls this stack and these cards never go into anyones deck, and they should not duplicate any card in your "play" stack.   Generaly you sleave them in different sleaves so they don't accidentally get shuffled into your "play" stack. This stack serves the purpose of both equalizing and unbalancing the game, It also adds a degree of inevitablity to the game... If you design it right It will eventually end the game. It also adds a good degree of chaotic fun to Type 4.

The rules:
- Starting the game: Before anyone draws cards, Shuffle the Critical Mass stack and place it face down in the center of the table.  No cards are turned up at the begining of the game.

- Crital Limit - At any given point in the game, there is a "Critical Limit."  This limit is equal to the 'first integer greater than exactly half of the players in the game.'  It sounds complicated but its really not.  If there are 6 players in the game 1/2 the players is 3, so the Critcal Limit = 3+1 = 4.  If there are 3 players then the critical limit = 2 (1.5 rounded to 2).  If there are 2 players then the limit = 2.  The critcal limit is SET at the begining of each turn.  So as players leave the game, the Limit gets reset at the begining of the next turn.

- Useing the Critcal Limit - Suppose there are 5 players in the game at the begining of the turn, the Limit is set to 3. Quite Simply, The moment the 3rd "spell for turn" is placed on the stack IN ONE TURN: the turn has reached "Critical Mass."  Immediately Any player takes the top card of the critical mass stack (if there is a card revealed) and places it on the bottom of stack FACE UP.  Then WITHOUT SHUFFLING, flips the top card of the critical mass stack over, revealing it to all players.  That Ability goes on the stack for all players - NO PLAYERS GET PRIORITY!! THE EFFECT IMMEDIATLY RESOLVES AND NO RESPONCES CAN BE MADE.  Once the flipped card has fully resolved (and any "Comes into play" triggers of that card resolve) Then Priority goes to the  player who cast the spell that caused the flip, and the stack continues to resolve as normal.  So at very least, the card that caused the Critical Mass To flip will still be on the stack after the critical mass effect has finished resolving (unless of course the critical mass effect took that ability off the stack). 

- Only "Spell For Turn" count's towards critical mass.  Only A player spending thier spell for turn will add to Critical Mass, So if you play with ACC Rules, or Dragon Arch type stuff, those dont count.

- If you make sure the cards that go on the bottom are face up, then you can tell when "finished" the critical mass stack.  When you remove the top card and there are no more face down cards, then shuffle the entire critical mass stack put it face down, and flip the top card... then resume the game.

- The Golden Rule of Critical Mass - No matter how much you want to interact with the critical mass ... you can't.  It can't be responded to, The critical Mass card is "in play" for all players but it is never 'counted' as a card in play for any players, thus it cannot be targeted, attack, block, be sacrificed for something, etc, etc.  All COMES INTO PLAY triggers resolve immediately for all players.  For some cards it makes more sense for NO player to control that card (for example Hunted Wumpass, or Charmed Griffon) In the case of those types of cards, each player would put one selected card into play ... as common sense would dictate, so effectivly No player controls that card.  Where as in some cases it makes sense for all players to control the card like Worship ... Just use your judgement.

- Triggers Generated BY cards on the world stack resolve normally, cards like Confusion in the rank or Horobi's Death Wail.  Those triggers can be responded to normally... where triggers on say Charmed Griffon or Hunted Wumpas cannot be responded to.  Also those triggers stay on the stack while the stack is flipping.  So supose Horobi's is on the Crit mass stack, and I play Lightning bolt targeting a Beefy creature - AND the Bolt is the Nth spell for turn that cuases critical mass.  The horobi's trigger goes on the stack, and then the Critical Mass stack flips, after the new Critical mass stack ability resolves... then the horobi's death wail trigger will now (attempt to) resolve, then the bolt will likely be countered upon resolution.  Any new targeting abilites will not trigger Horobi's seeing as how the death wail is no longer 'in play'.  Note that if the Bolt causes the critical mass stack to Flip INTO a horobi's death wail will NOT cause the Horobi's to trigger.  This is because horobi's was not in play when the spell was declared.

- Any Effects in the critical mass stack that sacrifice themself, flip the stack immediately after they sacrifice... Flip the stack as normal after the ability resolves.  Then then the new effect goes immediately on the stack.  Instants and sorcery DO NOT auto flip after they resolve, they just sit face up on the critical mass stack and wait to be flipped away ... This rule only applies to cards like standstill.

-Basially the stack cannot flip twice in one turn - unless the stack flipped itself useing the sacrifice rule.  If critical mass has been reached this turn, by virtue of the way the limit is defined it would be imposible to reach critical mass twice.

- Notes on the Critical Mass stack - It takes some getting used to, It is incredible easy to forget to flip the crtical mass stack.  Your play stack should be ripe with instants, because really you need to have several instants resolve for you can get the stack to flip.  You can control how often the game reaches critcal mass by adjusting your instant count in the play stack.  It also makes strange cantrips like twich and stuff alot of fun.  For example you can twitch something while your opponents spell is on the stack causeing the game to reach critcal mass, and then Twitch might end up being as good as a counterspell, or wraith of god, or better!  Also don't forget that you cannot respond to the critical mass stack... so for example if a warp world, or Biorythm gets flipped - NO activating Pentavus in response!  Remember you can't even respond BEFORE the stack flips, As SOON as the Nth spell is DECLARED and goes on the stack ... you've missed the boat for responding.  this is even EASIER to miss, sometimes gamestate must be backed up if a critical mass spell is responded to before the players realise that it was infact the critical mass spell.  In big games sometimes have one or two players with an extra 6 sided counting the "spells for turn." and have that player in charge of flipping the stack.

Suggestions for Building a Critical Mass Stack - Basically you want to include these types of cards..

Cards that everyone wants people to play, but that you would NEVER play: like Gate to Aether, Howling Mine, Show and Tell.  Upkeep cards are great examples of this because everyone else gets to use it before you do ... or you have to wait an entire full turn to make the card work.

Sweeping destruction effects .  And other good balancers.

Crazy fun stuff that is extremely situational. the situational becomes CHAOTIC Cards.

Cards of "little Consiquence" If your critical mass stack is too dense with high power cards, then it makes the game way way too random, mixing in some "minor" cards will make the critical mass less "relably crazy".

- Note on BioRythm -  This card ALWAYS ends the game several turns after it resolves.  I would HIGHLY suggest Biorythm in your Critical mass stack.  This is the inevitablity factor.  This is also why I prefer that the stack not shuffle on each flip... it means biorythm is comming, and It also means players will play creatures earlier rather than later.  Although we add the following Errata: "If BioRythm would cause all players to loose the game, Flip the critical mass stack instead." 


Suggested cards for the Critical mass stack===============
Anything Marked with an * is currently in my stack.

"Freebie" Effects:
Eureka
Show And Tell* <-- Awsome, Highly Recomended
Charmed Griffon* <-- Situationally Awsome, Highly Recomended
Hunted Wumpas <-- Situationally Awsome, Highly Recomended
Exhume*
Roar of Reclimation* <-- So good - Highly Recomended
Gate to Aether* 

"Sweeping" Effects:
World Gorger Dragon* <-- So much fun!! Probably my favorite card in the crit stack.
Obliderate*
Jolkhupus*
Anything else with "destroy all ..."
Humility

Fun with Combat:
Grand Melee*
Silent Arbiter*
Moat <-- $_$

Fun with Gamestate cards:
Warp World*
Time Stop*  <-- This card saves lives - Highly Recomended
Biorythm*   <-- This card Ends lives- Highly Recomended
Time Sifter*  <-- Randomizes the turns =P
Furnace of Wrath*
Worship
Confusion in the Ranks* <-- This card makes you think - Highly Recomended
Dovescape*

"Minor" Cards:
Arena of Ancients*
Porticulious
Eyes of the watcher*
Horobi's Death Wail* <-- Good and fun - Highly Recomended
March of the Machines
Darksteal Forge*
Doubling Season
Dreamborn Muse*
Howling Mine
Terifi's Puzzle Box
Hanna's Custody
Any of the Leylines - but not the blue one.

Draw Cards:
StandStill*
Diminishing Returns*
Sway the Stars <-- Haven't gotten my hands on one yet
Wheel of Fortune
Windfall
Winds of Change

 
 

[suicide_slushy]

I suppose this is as good a place as any to ask what t4 is, and where I can find a primer or whatever on it.

[Locke]

I suppose this is as good a place as any to ask what t4 is, and where I can find a primer or whatever on it.

See post #1.

[Luiggi]

what t4 is

Type 4 = best casual format ever, .

I've already gone through my stack and separated ~20 cards that I know I can replace with busted Time Spiral ones after this weekend.

Luis

[WhiteWolf]

I finally made an account and decide to post my stack. This is the only Belgian Type 4 Stack I know of (if there are any Belgian Type 4 players on here, let me know, we could play). I mostly play 1-on-1 Type 4. Combine that with a pretty powerful stack and you get some crazy games. But we like it that way. We go all out on ACC's: morph, Bringers, Flashback, even things like Temporal Aperture and North Star. We use Firebreathers, Treasure Trove, Infinite Life, ... No errata (Incarnations work always, Misschieveous Quanar is insane, ... ).  The only thing out of the question are straight x-damage spells like Fireball. Lately to spice up our games, we sometimes use a "Chaos stack" (the idea came from Harlequin I think)). Some nice chaos-like effects to shake things about now and then. At the beginning of every turn a 6-sided die is rolled and the next card gets turned on a 1 or a 6. No Wrath-like effects (too "unfun" I think and already in the stack) but things like Timesifter, Bottomless Pit, Furnace of Rath, ...

Anyway:

Firebreathers

Avarax
Bladewing the Risen
Cinder Shade
Cromat
Dauthi Mercenary
Dragon Tyrant
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
Snarling Undorak
Warbreak Trumpeter
Windreaver

Fat Men

Arcadas Sabboth
Ashen Monstrosity
Autochton Wurm
Cognivore
Crush of Wurms
Dark Depths
Darksteel Colossus
Draco
Eternal Dragon
Exalted Angel
Excruciator
Firemane Angel
Fungal Shambler
Garza Zol, Plague Queen
Gigapede
Greater Morphling
Grozoth
Hunting Pack
Hypnox
Imperial Hellkite
Iname as One
Infernal Spawn of Evil
Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil
Iridescent Angel
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Konda, Lord of Eiganjo
Krosan Cloudscraper
Krosan Colossus
Laquatus's Champion
Living Hive
Mist Dragon
Morphling
Mortivore
Multani, Maro Sorcerer
Nicol Bolas
Panglacial Wurm
Penumbra Wurm
Phage, the Untouchable
Phantom Nishoba
Phyrexian Gargantua
Plated Slagwurm
Platinum Angel
Pristine Angel
Protean Hulk
Quicksilver Dragon
Razia, Boros Archangel
Root Elemental
Rorix Bladewing
Scion of Darkness
Silent Specter
Silvos, Rogue Elemental
Sky Swallower
Sol'Kanar the Swamp King
Spiritmonger
Spirit of the Night
Stalking Vengeance
Storm Herd
Svogthos, the Restless Tomb
Symbiotic Wurm
Szadek, Lord of Secrets
Thicket Elemental
Verdant Force
Volrath the Fallen
Xanthic Statue

Utility Men

Academy Rector
Ancestor's Chosen
Angel of Despair
Anger
Arashi, the Sky Asunder
Arcanis the Omnipotent
Armored Guardian
Avatar of Woe
Aven Fateshaper
Azorius Guildmage
Bane of the Living
Blazing Archon
Bloodfire Colossus
Bloodshot Cyclops
Bosh, Iron Golem
Bringer of the Black Dawn
Bringer of the Blue Dawn
Bringer of the Green Dawn
Bringer of the Red Dawn
Bringer of the White Dawn
Carl, King of Games
Chainer, Dementia Master
Chromeshell Crab
Combat Medic
Crimson Hellkite
Crowd Favorites
Deepfire Elemental
Desolation Angel
Desolation Giant
Duplicant
Echo Tracer
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Ertai, Wizard Adept
Etched Oracle
False Prophet
Filth
Furnace Dragon
Genesis
Ghost-Lit Stalker
Gilded Drake
Glarecaster
Glory
Heartless Hidetsugu
Helldozer
Hellhole Rats
Hisoka, Minamo Sensei
Homura, Human Ascendant
Hoverguard Sweepers
Indrik Stomphowler
Infernal Denizen
Jacques the Frenchie
Jareth, Leonine Titan
Jiwari, the Earth Aflame
Johnny, Combo Player
Karmic Guide
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Kuro, Pitlord
Liz, Not-so-token Girl
Memnarch
Metathran Aerostat
Mindleech Mass
Mischievous Quanar
Myojin of Cleansing Fire
Myojin of Life's Web
Myojin of Night's Reach
Mystic Snake
Nantuko Vigilante
Nezumi Graverobber
Nightscape Battlemage
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Okiba-Gang Shinobi
Pain Kami
Platinum Angel
Quicksilver Elemental
Reiver Demon
Reya Dawnbringer
Richard Garfield, PhD
Rimescale Dragon
Riptide Shapeshifter
Robert Leroy, Libertarian
Sakashima, the Impostor
Siege-Gang Commander
Silklash Spider
Sisters of Stone Death
Skinthinner
Stormscape Battlemage
Sunscape Battlemage
Temporal Adept
Thornscape Battlemage
Thunderscape Battlemage
Tidespout Tyrant
Timmy, Power Gamer
Tyrone-san the Emo
Uktabi Kong
Venomspout Brackus
Viridian Zealot
Visara the Dreadful
Voidmage Apprentice
Voidmage Prodigy
Willbender
Yore-Tiller Nephilim

Ping Men

Consumptive Goo
Flowstone Overseer
Masticore
Plaguebearer
Smokespew Invoker
Vampiric Dragon

Mass Removal

Akroma’s Vengeance
Balance
Balancing Act
Decree of Annihilation
Decree of Pain
Devastation
Dregs of Sorrow
Dwarven Catapult
Evacuation
Fevered Convulsions
Flowstone Slide
Forced March
Hail of Arrows
Hour of Reckoning
Inferno
Jokulhaups
Kirtar's Wrath
March of Souls
Nevinyrral’s Disk
Obliterate
Overwhelming Forces
Pernicious Deed
Plague Boiler
Plague Wind
Planeswalker’s Scorn
Pulverize
Purify
Rare-B-Gone
Rout
Savage Twister
Solar Tide
Soulscour
Starstorm
Task Mage Assembly
Vacuumelt
World-Bottling Kit
Wrath of God

Pinpoint Removal

Agonizing Demise
Altar’s Light
Annihilate
Awol
Barter in Blood
Bash to Bits
Betrayal of Flesh
Brainspoil
Capsize
Chainer's Edict
Chaos Orb
Chastise
Clutch of the Undercity
Cremate
Crooked Scales
Crosis’ Charm
Cruel Revival
Desert Twister
Devouring Light
Diabolic Edict
Dismantling Blow
Exile
Faith's Fetters
Fireblast
Fissure
Headstone
Hide/Seek
Hit/Run
Hull Breach
Illuminate
Karakas
Legacy Weapon
Mortify
Mystic Melting
Night Soil
Order/Chaos
Orim’s Thunder
Predator Flagship
Prophetic Bolt
Putrefy
Radiant's Judgment
Ray of Distortion
Recoil
Repeal
Second Thoughts
Shattering Pulse
Shattering Spree
Shred Memory
Snuff Out
Swords to Plowshares
Terminate
Tornado
Treva’s Charm
Tsabo’s Decree
Twisted Justice
Void
Wing Shards

Counters

Absorb
Arcane Denial
Assert Authority
Commandeer
Controvert
Decree of Silence
Deflection
Desertion
Discombobulate
Dismiss
Disrupting Shoal
Dissipate
Dromar’s Charm
Ertai’s Meddling
Exclude
Fervent Denial
Fold into Aether
Forbid
Force of Will
Fork
Hinder
Induce Paranoia
Interdict
Last Word
Misdirection
Muddle the Mixture
Null Brooch
Overwhelming Intellect
Perplex
Reroute
Rewind
Spell Counter
Spelljack
Spite/Malice
Suffocating Blast
Swift Silence
Thwart
Time Stop
Undermine
Vex
Voidslime

Stealing

Acquire
Blatant Thievery
Confiscate
Dominate
Flash Conscription
Govern the Guildless
Grab the Reins
Grinning Totem
Helm of Obedience
Insurrection
Jacowned!
Spinal Embrace
Thought Dissector
Yavimaya’s Embrace

Recursion

All Sun’s Dawn
Argivian Restoration
Beacon of Unrest
Bösium Strip
Corpse Dance
Death Denied
Debtor's Knell
Grim Harvest
Holistic Wisdom
Hymn of Rebirth
Miracelous Recovery
Phyrexian Grimoire
Restock
Sigil of the New Dawn
Strands of Night
Twilight’s Call
Volrath’s Stronghold
Yawgmoth’s Agenda

Damage Prevention

Captain’s Maneuver
Chant of Vitu-Ghazi
Delaying Shield
Fyndhorn Pollen
Kor Haven
Maze of Ith
Moment’s Peace
Mourner’s Shield
Panacea
Pravh, Spires of Order
Reverse Damage
Rith's Charm
Safeguard
Shield of the Ages

Life Gain

Ancestral Tribute
Beacon of Immortality
Granny’s Payback
Tower of Eons

Search

Aladdin’s Lamp
Chord of Calling
Citanul Flute
Congregation at Dawn
Crown of Convergence
Eladamri’s Call
Flash of Insight
Hibernation's End
Night Dealings
Planar Portal
Reviving Vapors
Soothsaying
Sunforger
Survival of the Fittest
Tooth and Nail
Vigean Intuition

Draw

Armistice
Biomantic Mastery
Compulsion
Fact or Fiction
Future Sight
Greater Good
Heed the Mists
Mind’s Eye
Moonlight Bargain
Nivix, Arie of the Firemind
Opportunity
Plagiarize
Pulse of the Grid
Thran Tome
Tower of Fortunes
Treasure Trove
Whispers of the Muse

Burn

Aladdin’s Ring
Beacon of Destruction
Kaboom!
Pyromancy
Rocket Launcher
Searing Wind
Urza's Rage
Volley of Boulders

Discard

Cabal Conditioning
Mind Warp
Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace

Miscellaneous

Ach, Hans! Run!
Aggravated Assault
Backlash
Beacon of Tomorrows
Blast from the Past
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Call of the Wild
Cauldron Dance
Decree of the Creator
Door to Nothingness
Dragon Beath
Fist of Suns
Fury of the Horde
Gleemax
Hall of the Bandit Lord
In the Web of War
Killer Instinct
Leonin Sun Standard
Mindslaver
Mirari
Mizzium Transreliquat
Mortal Combat
Muse Vessel
North Star
Ornate Kanzashi
Planeswalker’s Misschief
Promise of Power
Quicksilver Amulet
Reito Lantern
Reverse the Sands
Reweave
Soul Foundry
Staff of Domination
Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang
Temporal Aperture
That Which Was Taken
Through the Breach
Thunderheads
Time Stretch
Tolarian Waterpark
Vanish into Memory
Vedalken Orrery
Who/What/When/Where/Why
Winding Canyons

I always try tro trim it but it's getting harder and harder. I already cut Vanilla counterspells (Rewind untaps utility lands!) and lesser counterspells (things like Arcane Denial and Vex can be political in multiplayer games). I even cut Bind and Squelch because Interdict is straight out better. I haven't tested since and maybe stuff like Door are going te be too out of hand now.

And Time Spiral is only going to make the stack larger! Oh my, what a Type 4 set!

WhiteWolf

[Mr. Type 4]

I'll need to take some time and look over your list more carefully (there's always some good stuff that I  haven't found to include in my list) but I see that you got JACOWNED! in there, which is freakin' awesome.  More people should include Jacowned!, it's the shit.

[WhiteWolf]

Some not-so-evident inclusions might be:
* Pyromancy: great (but risky) burn spell
* Hall of the Bandit Lord: especially good with firebreathers
* Sigil of the New Dawn: creatures never really die. Will probably be replaced by Lim-Dul.
* Windreaver: great defender and finisher for control style players.
* Fireblast: surprising 'free' finisher or removal
* Argivian Restoration: recent addition, looks good with all the powerful artifacts
* Sol'Kanar the Swamp King: Unblockable and life gain
* Hisoka, Minamo Sensei: surprisingly really good, especially with some carddrawing. Try it out!

The problem is I sometimes think my stack is too big (on the other hand having some diversity is fun). Does any of you have some things you think I could cut? I make it a personal rule to not include two versions of one spell, especially if one is a notch better. Bind = Squelch < Interdict.

Another personal rule is that I weigh new 'fat men' against Darksteel Colossus: something must be more or less on the same level (or better) as an 11/11 hard-to-get-rid-of, evading critter. So recently I have cut: One Dozen Eyes, Colossus of Sardia, Arctic Nishoba, ... Power/toughness can be less IF there's an interesting ability like with Excruciator, Fungal Shambler, ...

I also don't like vanilla counterspells or lesser counterspells (unless they're political).

So, how does everyone weighs new cards for Type 4? Seems an interesting question ... especially for creatures.

And yes, I know I'm missing some staples like Vindicate (damn hard to find actually!) and Illusionary Mask. Ironically i have 4 Vindicates and 4 Masks but I like to keep them separated for Legacy and Vintage. I really love Type 4 but buying a 5th Illusionary Mask has been a bit to much until now! You can however always sell me your beat-up Mask.

White Wolf

[Luiggi]

I'll need to take some time and look over your list more carefully (there's always some good stuff that I  haven't found to include in my list) but I see that you got JACOWNED! in there, which is freakin' awesome.  More people should include Jacowned!, it's the shit.

Pardon my ignorance, but what's "Jacowned!"?

Luis

[WhiteWolf]

Jacowned:

Sorcery

Until the beginning of your next turn, gain control of each opponent's turn (You control only the active player's turn.)

[WhiteWolf]

I’d like to have a discussion about some cards I recently cut or never tried (mainly because I don’t own them) but think could be strong. What do you all think of:

Sneak Attack: Drop this with a few creatures in your hand and beat! From then on it gives haste to every creature you draw. Especially good with critters like Nicol Bolas. So what if they die at the and of turn? It’s not like creatures live long normally or need to live long.

Firemane Angel: A mediocre evasive recurring beater. The life gain is pretty irrelevant unless in really long games but the fact that she can be recurred ‘for free’ is strong.

Pit Spawn: Some people swear by this creature. If only his power was 7 or 8 …

Eternal Witness: Returns only one card, seems underwhelming. I love All Sun’s Dawn which is like 10,000 times better.

Cognivore: Can become really big in larger games but very susceptible to removal. Outdated?

Sol’Kanar, the Swamp King: Only a 5/5 but unblockable. In larger games his life gain can be relevant.

Academy Rector: You can fetch some very strong enchantments but getting her killed can be cumbersome. Blocking is not always possible and wasting a removal spell is not so economic. Mostly a Moat-like detterant.

Heartless Hidetsugu: A lot of players play this guy but I recently cut it. It was often just too symmetrical.

Kuro Pitlord: Also a recent cut. A pretty big beater and semi-masticore. Is the life-loss worth the ability? Great art by the way …

Karakas: Free removal and utility (if used on your own crits) but cut because of the ‘legend’ drawback.

Helm of Obedience: Another recent cut. Seemed weak compared to Confiscate, Dominate, … because of the random nature. A lot of people deem it very powerful, am I missing something? Yeah yeah, it mills, but is that so relevant?

Bosium Strip: A card I’ve seldom seen. Good or not? It went in and out of my stack.

Hammer of Bogardan: Recurrable Lightning Bolt, pity it's a sorcery.

I’ll add more later.

WhiteWolf