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Author Topic: General Tips When Going To A Tournment  (Read 9638 times)
Shock Wave
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« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2004, 02:13:17 pm »

My tournament rules:

1. Be pleasant with your opponent, even if your opponent is a big prick.
2. Wish your opponent luck.
3. Never, ever let your opponent take back a play. Never, ever ask your opponent to allow you to take a play back.
4. Never hesitate to call a judge on a shady player.
5. Never, EVER stall. If you do, be advised that you are a piece of shit.
6. If a match comes to time, and only a win will give one of you a position in the T8, and you are clearly in a losing position, concede to your opponent.
7. Shake hands with your opponent after the round is over, and compliment their strong plays (make some up if there were none).
8. Don't hover over players in the middle of a match and talk about what the best plays currently are. Don't whisper either (so annoying).
9. If a friend is playing in a match and you wish to watch, kindly ask your opponent if it is ok with them (especially dependent on where you're situated)
9. Never ID (I'm soooo guilty of breaking this one)
10. Let the 12yr old sitting across from you in R1 steal a game.

There's a whole slew of MTG etiquette rules that I would love see practiced more frequently. Those are most of them.
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« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2004, 02:50:53 pm »

The intentional draw is an important part of tournament magic.  When people are a lock for top 8, its asinine not to intentionally draw.  Only in type one would someone say that intentional draw is faux paux.  Moreover, refusing to draw when you are higher in the standings and a draw would secure your opponent top 8 is probably somewhere on the rude side of the line.  

General tips, here is my general tip:

Don't be an ass.  Don't say stupid or mean things and don't insult other people.  

Call the judge if the opponent does anything at all that requires a judge.  This isn't a mean thing to do.  Kevin Cron has a great story about how he was trying to be "nice" and it backfired.
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« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2004, 03:21:28 pm »

My god do you need water bottles. Think about it. You'll be talking pretty much nonstop for at least eight hours. You need to remain hydrated. This does not mean bring your favorite caffeinated beverage. They will dehydrate you and make you pee more.

I've walked into some idiot stuff in Round 7 before because I was exhausted from being dehydrated. Get a bottle, drink it, refill it often. You won't have to use the can any more than you usually do; you have to replace the water you lose during talking, respiration and tense moments!

-Dr. Doug
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« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2004, 03:25:51 pm »

Wait, just what exactly are people considering "takebacks?"  Do you mean stuff like your opponent taps a land, then untaps it and says "actually, just go" or do you mean like letting them un-screw up?
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« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2004, 03:50:02 pm »

This is a great thread, I  have to say.

I would add try to contain your emotions during and after a match when it does not go your way.  Particularly when you lose a match that you should win by all accounts.  It is much better to drop, and take a walk to collect yourself than to say/do something that does not represent you, your team, or the community in a favorable light.

NEVER allow take backs.  Take the extra time to think things through before you make a play.

Do be sociable.  Even if you are playing combo.

Remember its a social game first and foremost.  People stop playing if they don't have fun.  So don't create an atmosphere which takes the fun out of things.

Don't be a "Joy Vampire"
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« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2004, 04:02:34 pm »

Quote from: Triple_S
Remember its a social game first and foremost.  People stop playing if they don't have fun.  So don't create an atmosphere which takes the fun out of things.

Don't be a "Joy Vampire"
This is especially important in smaller events where you want newer players to become regulars.  Make sure that they enjoy having their asses handed to them!
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« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2004, 04:12:59 pm »

Here are some important things to keep in mind for a tournament. Some of them might be too strict for a small Type One event, but these are useful to keep in mind for a larger sanctioned event.

Sleeves.
Use new sleeves for each event, and new sleeves for each day of a multi-day event. When you sleeve your cards, make sure you shuffle the sleeves first. Then, after you have sleeved your cards, inspect each sleeved card under a light to make sure there are no marks on the sleeves. Many sleeves are printed with some mark or blemish on the back. Resleeve the cards that are in such sleeves.


Sleeving your Sideboard.
As for sideboards. I don't sleeve my board. Thing about it -- your maindeck cards see more play than your sideboard cards. So, as maindeck sleeves wear over the course of a match, your sideboard sleeves will be newer. Eventually, the sideboard sleeves will be noticably different than your maindeck sleeves. Instead, I leave my sideboard unsleeved. This has the further benefit of making it easy to have exactly sixty cards in your deck at the start of each game.

Food.
This has already been said, but I'll reiterate. You need proper food and beverage to play your best. Keep drinking water or something similar to stay hydrated. Keep some snacks on hand -- hunger can make your play ability diminish. Eat well before a large event, and stay well fed there.

FOILS
I know I'm going to get flamed for this one, but here we go.
Don't use foils. Just don't. Sure, they might look pretty in a small Type One event or an FNM, but avoid them in anything serious. Foil cards are of a different thickness than regular cards, and foils wear differently. Therefore, it is often possible to distinguish foils from nonfoils by just feeling the back of a card. Foils should be avoided.

*I prepare for flames for denouncing foils*
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« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2004, 04:46:53 pm »

My advice is to tap your manasources properly, IE announce the spell/effect before tapping manasources.  While you don't have to do it, it is much better to announce a spell, THEN pay the costs for it by tapping manasources.  That way, if you mistakenly announce a spell you can't pay the costs for, the rules state that you can take back the announcement.  If you float the mana first, then by the rules you have to use it somehow or take mana burn.

Also, if you partially announce a spell and then change your mind, you don't have to do things which are technically against the rules like tapping-untapping your land.

Another thing, if you can, work out how you sideboard against possible deck types before the tournament, that way you can think about which cards are actually better for a given matchup.  It gives you time to think, instead of working out sideboarding on the fly, which I find leads to over-sideboarding.

-Luke
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« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2004, 04:51:30 pm »

Quote from: The Atog Lord
FOILS
I know I'm going to get flamed for this one, but here we go.
Don't use foils. Just don't. Sure, they might look pretty in a small Type One event or an FNM, but avoid them in anything serious. Foil cards are of a different thickness than regular cards, and foils wear differently. Therefore, it is often possible to distinguish foils from nonfoils by just feeling the back of a card. Foils should be avoided.

Well, I'll disagree a little bit here.  Yes, you can tell if you have foils by bending the cards, but often, it's not going to make a difference.  When you draw a card, if you bend it to test if it's a foil, it doesn't matter, since you're drawing it anyway.  Feeling the top card of your library will raise the suspicion of opponents anyway.  I'd go so far as to say that it's impossible to stack a deck or otherwise manipulate it by finding the thickness of certain cards (foils) and putting them somewhere specific.  If someone is bending the cards when he Necros one at a time as a way to tell whether or not he should take more cards, that's one thing.  You're not going to be able to tell whether a card is foil by feeling the back of a sleeve.  You have to physically bend the card to see just how thick it is.  When you actually get a chance to do that, it's either in play or your hand--in either case, it doesn't matter, since you already know what it is anyway.

Also, if you're using a lot of foils, then it's not going to matter.  I know people have been called out for using all foil lands and nothing else, but if you have like 15-20 foil cards in your deck, you can't know exactly what it is you have before you look at it.  I'd say that having like exactly one or two key cards in foil might be suspicious, but I certainly wouldn't get excited over it.  To be honest, I get more alarmed when I see really bent or beat up cards--the kind that look like they went through bicycle spokes.  Those cards are going to have a different texture on the back, at which point it does become possible to just feel the card and figure out what it is.

So if your opponent isn't bending his cards, he isn't going to be able to tell whether or not they're foil.  See, Rich, not a flame.

You can solve the sideboard problem by rotating your sleeves after a couple rounds.  This way, the wear gets more evenly distributed.  I'm against having to take cards in and out of sleeves all the time because you can damage the card more easily taking it out of a sleeve.  Plus, my sideboard gets all messed up in the Rook tin if its not sleeved.  I don't want my FOILS getting all messed up now. Smile
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« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2004, 04:54:22 pm »

Quote from: The Atog Lord

FOILS
I know I'm going to get flamed for this one, but here we go.
Don't use foils. Just don't. Sure, they might look pretty in a small Type One event or an FNM, but avoid them in anything serious. Foil cards are of a different thickness than regular cards, and foils wear differently. Therefore, it is often possible to distinguish foils from nonfoils by just feeling the back of a card. Foils should be avoided.

*I prepare for flames for denouncing foils*


Foils are definitely thicker, and have a slight curve to them that is noticeable. Sometimes the shininess is just too much, and the good ones are wicked hard to get.

<- Doesn't like foils either.
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« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2004, 05:01:37 pm »

If you're in a counter war or something, actually stack the spells in the middle of the play area.  It suprises me the number of people that dont do this, but it really makes things a lot clearer to both players(if necessary the judge too) and prevents stupid play errors.

As for takebacks, the tapping/untapping lands isnt an issue.  I figure if MODO lets you undo land tapping thats cool with me.  Once a player announces a spell or effect I wont allow them to take it back except in small local events.  By the same token if I make a mistake and my opponent offers to let me take it back I will not accept the offer.  No quarter is asked and none shall be given.

Also, I think being courteous before and after the match is especially important.  I probably come across as a real douche during the match since I  dont talk and just concentrate on my game--except when Im very obviously getting my ass beat.  So I try to be extra nice before and after the match, although I'll never wish my opponent good luck.
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« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2004, 05:17:04 pm »

As far as take-backs, I have some pretty straightforward rules.


IF I haven't had any responses and IF it's still within the turn it happened in, they can get it back.

And thems the rules.
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« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2004, 07:05:22 pm »

A few things...

What to bring:

1) Fixations.  Know your habits.  If you like to have something to chew on, bring gum.  If you need something in your hand, bring a power drill...or whatever.  The trick is to keep as many distractions under wraps as possible so you can focus.

2) Girlfriend.  I think bringing a girlfriend to an upper-level event helps in numerous ways.  Sometimes they're good luck charms, sometimes they give you someone to talk to about things other than magic (aka a break), they can take care of your stuff allowing you to concentrate on the task at hand, and you can always slip out for some hanky panky in order to "relieve stress".  Most of all, it's a pimp thing to do, just don't let Kerz take pictures of her.

3) Clothes.  Don't show up to a tournament naked; not cool.  Actually what I'm talking about, is that you should try to dress comfortably (but respectably), and find out ahead of time if the place is unually warm or cool (or dress in layers).


Etiquette:

1) Be yourself.  I'm sorry to say, but you should really just be yourself when interacting with opponents.  If you're a complete asshole, too bad for them, but don't let politeness mess with your game.  I've been known to play headgames, or make discouraging remarks, but I don't think many people in NE hate to sit down across from me.  I think if you've got a willingness to play a complex game like T1 magic, then you've probably also invested time and energy in developing some social skills.

2) Take backs.  I think this refers back to #1.  If you want the best chance of winning, then you probably won't allow take backs.  However, if either a) you make a lot of mistakes yourself, or b) you'd feel anxiously guilty about being a hard-ass, than feel free to be flexible with your opponent.  Know yourself and make a best guess.

3) Technical play.  I've found that the more I've invested in learning the rules of the game and learning how best to implement those rules in a tournament match, the better my results have gotten.  I make less mistakes, win more matches, and enjoy the game more, because of attention to detail.


But above all, enjoy the game, the competition, and the people.  We do have a fun format and a good community (at least in the NE!).
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« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2004, 03:56:48 am »

Very good thread.  I enjoyed the read.

Now, rules I go by at tournaments.

-I don't take anything back, and I don't allow it.  If you want to take something back, it gives clues to yoru opponent as to what you could be planning to do next.

-Announce the spell, then play it.  Make sure you tap the right mana & make sure your opponent does the same.

-Allow time for responses.  Don't just say Ancestral Recall myself, then tap Island & draw 3 cards.

-Be polite (I know it has been said before, but seriously, a please, thank your, and good game is not that hard to say).  It helps your PR later aswell.

-Hygine = Tech

-Check your stuff.  Know where it is, and know what you are doing.  Count your cards while boarding & while shuffling.

-Don't cheat.  You will get caught.

-I am sure more to come later, but thats all I can think of right now.  I hope to see you all in Waterbury.
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« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2004, 04:27:32 am »

If I feel that the mistake does not affect the gamestate or is minor I do allow my opponents to take back something. Many would argue that out thinking someone involves not misplaying. I separate them somewhat and appreciate the well played game over strict rule abidedness (which is certainly part of a well played game).

I am not making a moral judgement on others, I am just stating what I do and how I look at the game. I like math and problem solving so one of the my outlets is to play magic.

I go to tournaments to outplay my opponents with my intellect, knowledge of mathematics and to have fun. Winning happens sometimes
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« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2004, 10:10:47 am »

Maybe a little nitpicky, but very important to me. I HATE going to a magic tournament that smells of Magicplayers. The sweaty stench is horrific. I think the problem with magicplayers who smell is about clean clothes, not necessarily about having showered up, because nothing smells more than clothes (about a day or 2 old) that have been sweat on repeatedly.

Concerning problems with taking back plays, I usually let them, if we are on friendly terms. Some people will just be bitches by intimidating, whining and such. I usually ask those players why they are being the bitch they are in a reflective way. It helps alot actually.

Of all stuff important, i think being prepared is most important. Prepare: deck, 2 decklists, dice, notepad, pen, drinks and food. Get a good nights sleep. If you sleep well, good manners and a smile will come automatically.
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« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2004, 10:15:40 am »

On the cleanliness note, George Carlin said it best:

"Asshole, Armpits, Crotch & Teeth".

Take care of those on a daily basis, at a minimum, and 99.9% of BO is eliminated.
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« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2004, 10:25:49 am »

One of the most important things to do is scout during the tournament.  I think that this is most critical in the Vintage format.  Knowing what you are facing can help you make key decisions when it comes mulling, not playing into drain, dropping your moxen for fear of Trinisphere, etc.

Effective time management is not only good in and of itself, but will give you more time in between rounds.   For example, scouting is harder to do with a blue control deck usually because games are generally longer.  

Everytime someone takes a takeback, a ninja chops the head off ten kittens.

Know the tournament floor rules regarding shuffling.
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« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2004, 11:26:13 am »

Quote from: Methuselahn

Know the tournament floor rules regarding shuffling.


I have a friend that was in the final round of States with a Top 8 birth on the line.  While riffle shuffling his deck before the match, he had the cards facing toward him so that his opponent wouldn't be able to see what he was playing.  He shuffled this way a few  times and presented his deck to his opponent to cut.  His opponent promptly called the judge over, and the judge issued him a game loss for attempting to stack his deck (since he shuffled with the cards facing him).  No offical warnings were ever given.  

They were forced to go to game two and he promptly lost after being on tilt from the judge's decision.  He was told later that if had shuffled with the cards facing away from him once or twice just before presenting, no loss would have been issued.

If it's a major tourney (states, SCG p9, etc.) make sure you know what REL 3 (or whatever the level) actually is, and how it relates to your play style.
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« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2004, 01:18:15 pm »

You shouldn't ever shuffle facing away from yourself for the obvious reason your friend knew: you show your deck.  If you can't shuffle straight down, just shuffle toward yourself a few times while looking completely the other direction.  That should be ok.
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« Reply #50 on: December 09, 2004, 01:20:08 pm »

I'm going to be the guy who mentions showering again.  Honestly though, I think that advice is lost here.  Most everyone on this site can form sentences and speak with some level of competence; I think those in need of the showering advice don't post here.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed that those who smell bad suck at Magic.
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« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2004, 03:45:20 pm »

Quote
Ask your opponent if he has any responses before doing something, etc.


Isn't that considered passing priority? I think I remember something about a guy losing a GP or PT or something for saying "Do you have an fast effects?"
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« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2004, 04:06:30 pm »

Quote from: yodoblec
Quote
Ask your opponent if he has any responses before doing something, etc.


Isn't that considered passing priority? I think I remember something about a guy losing a GP or PT or something for saying "Do you have an fast effects?"


Yes it is.

I assume the "ask your opponent" remark refers to before priority is passed to you.
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« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2004, 07:23:40 pm »

One of the most important lessons I learned as an athlete and coach was that sometimes life isn't fair.  Sometimes you get beat.  Sometimes bad stuff happens.  Sometimes the bad guy wins and the good guy loses.  Knowing that, I have become a better Magic player.  

The person across from you is your opponent, not your enemy.  Treat them with respect.

And remember, every game is a lesson.  Every match is a lesson.  Every tournament is a lesson.  Bitter feelings, anger, dislike of an opponent and endless excuses cloud your ability to learn from games and become better.
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« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2004, 10:05:50 am »

Make sure to keep your cards on you.  How often do you hear about some guy who lost his several thousand dollar set of power at a tourney?  It's tempting to just set down your stuff at a table to go trade or socialize, but it can get you burned.  Thievery is not all that uncommon at the tournament scene.
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« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2004, 01:48:52 pm »

it's always right to respect your opponent, but there's always the temptation to get too chummy with your opponent (whom you may or may not know beforehand)
stay cool and focused on winning
don't be a rules lawyer, but don't be afraid to call a judge for valid complaints
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« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2004, 02:54:31 pm »

Quote from: Shock Wave
My tournament rules:
6. in the T8, and you are clearly in a losing position, concede to your opponent.


I don't really agree with this, though I am guilty of having done it.

Here is a true story that happened to me.  It was about 3 years ago...Odyssey Block Constructed PTQS...me and my buddy Jim P took the 7 hour drive down to Maryland to play in a PTQ.  The PTQ is 8 rounds...I lose round 1 and draw round 2.  Jim lost both rounds. He wants to leave so we can get back home before midnight.  I tell him I still have a shot to which he laughs.  Each round he sits next to my opponent and cheers for them, complimenting them on their play and hi-5ing them for top decks...even so...I keep winning and winning.  

I go into the last round at 5-1-1.  My opponent is this little kid(who is now I think a really good type 2 player) something-McGee.  He has no shot at top 8...so I ask him to conceed.  What should he say?

The answer is no.  As much as I was pissed that this is what he said...I realize years later that his decision was the fair one.  Consider this. Let's say the top 6 is comprised of the last rounds IDs.  That leaves two top 8 spots.  Lets also assume that player B who has the best tiebreaks of the people forced to play that round wins round 7.  He now has a spot in the top 8 leaving one spot.  It will be me if I win, but if I lose, the winner of Player C and D will make it in.

Mr. McGee could say...well...I can't make it in, so I minds well not be mean and keep another person out of it.  WRONG.  You can't not find 8 people to fill a top 8.  Mr. McGee is the innocent unbiased party that determines whether I should be the person in the top 8 spot or Player C or D.  Is it fair that I get the spot because I got luckier with my opponent choice?  Should the determination for the three of us advancing be based on a craphsoot as to who gets paired against the non-chance.

The DCI rules state that matches should come to their natural conclusion.  If I deserve that top 8 spot.  I should have to prove it by winning.

In the particular example where the game went to time, the fact that you are in a winning position is inconsequential.  Did the judge just suddenly tell you 45 minutes into round 8 that you only had 50 minutes this round?  Players know the time constraints they are playing under and play accordingly.  Whether either player stalled or the games were just naturally long, the fact that the match will end in a draw is the natural conclusion.

In "helping your last round opponent make top 8", you are keeping someone out, someone who deserved that spot.  The number of people you are "putting in the top 8 is one either way.  The kicker, though, is that by conceeding in that situation, you are putting the non-deserving player into the top 8, who legitimately won, not drew, his match.

I would be interested to hear other opinions on this.  It is not often that I speak up, however, again, let me just say, that I myself am guilty of what I have mentioned above, though have realized recently that it is the wrong play.
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« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2004, 03:06:12 pm »

Quote from: ray


the absolute truth



I'm glad you, as the TO of a major event, said this because too many of the top players on these boards think otherwise. I'll admit it changes slightly when both player A and player B are on the same team, but other then that situation I think you are 100% correct.
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