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Author Topic: Phil Stanton's metagame analysis...and Gabriel Nassif, Crazy  (Read 3756 times)
effang
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« on: December 10, 2004, 12:26:59 am »

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=8551

Gabriel Nassif, Crazy.  I just don't understand it.  How much experience with type 1 could he possibly have?  He's on the gravy train, testing and testing and drafting and drafting, yet still manages not only to t8, but also win an event!  Looking at the decks he played, sure some were underpowered, but he played some t1 staples as well...

Anybody else feel that this is another flow to the quality of type 1 players?  This pretty much shows that skill > deck...I'm still at a loss on EBA.  Check out that SB, it is a whole bunch of 1-ofs and no cunning wish that i see (could be blind, i'm tired).

crazy...

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Hyperion

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Moxlotus
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« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2004, 12:36:57 am »

For future notice, giving links so people know what the hell you're talking about is appreciated.

EDIT: Thanks Hyperion.
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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2004, 01:02:16 am »

I seriously miss the "WTF of the Month". Bring it back now!
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« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2004, 01:13:54 am »

Since Pip didn't do it, I decided to do it for you.

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2 Child of Gaea (WTF of the month)
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MrZuccinniHead
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« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2004, 01:22:26 am »

i still think EBA is a good deck.  I play it in online tournies sometimes.
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« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2004, 01:27:28 am »

I am consistently amazed at the proportion of my feedback directed at that one piece of my articles. :) If I had to pick one, Child of Gaea would be it. By popular demand, I'll try to remember it in the future.
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« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2004, 01:43:55 am »

It was a great read, just like usual.  You are one of, if not the, best writer Starcity has.
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Machinus
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« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2004, 01:44:04 am »

Only 9 Library of Alexandria? Doesn't that bother anyone else?

[EDIT: Also, note that Antoine Ruel took second in that event...I'm sure it was more fun than a PT finals, though.]
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« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2004, 03:01:54 am »

Antoine Ruel

====

Is he a great player also?

Anyways, I brought up this post because I was really wondering if anybody has a match analysis, or any kind of tournament report from him.  No offense to anybody, but Nassif sure as hell knows what he's doing and I think a ton of insight could be gathered by learning how he plays.  Obviously we can look at his standard reports, but that's not quite the same as deciding force or not!
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« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2004, 03:46:46 am »

I've played EBA for quite a chunk of time and that EBA deck mentioned leaves me at a loss. No Mana Drain. No basic lands. A lot of Phid type creatures. Four Vindicate in the maindeck. I really don't see how he worked around non-basic hate like Crucible, B2B and Blood Moon.

I could be wrong and this might be exactly what EBA needs to be to win. But it sure doesn't look it...
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Machinus
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« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2004, 04:27:09 am »

You can look up his performances on the official site. He is the twelfth highest all-time earnings leader (right behind nassif) with $131,740.
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« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2004, 09:38:52 am »

Lifetime Pro Points:
Antoine Ruel: 215
Gabriel Nassif: 181

The EBA list is indeed nutty. He doesn't play Cunning Wish, either! If only our Frenchies could interview him about it. :-P

The low Library of Alexandria count didn't surprise me as much as the Yawgmoth's Will count. Will, the most broken card in the game, dropped to about half its level of play out of nowhere. Fortunately, it's easy to explain because Oath kinda makes it hard to accumulate a graveyard. Still, I was creeped out by it when I first looked at it.
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effang
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« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2004, 09:57:26 am »

Quote from: Dr. Sylvan
Lifetime Pro Points:
Antoine Ruel: 215
Gabriel Nassif: 181

The EBA list is indeed nutty. He doesn't play Cunning Wish, either! If only our Frenchies could interview him about it. Razz
.


Like I mentioned! This is so crazy, I really fail to see the point of his SB.  I can't imagine what he would be taking out to play all of these one ofs...Even if he did SB in any of those cards, he only has ONE tutor...I assume that he is relying on his finkels to help him draw what he needs when he needs.

He also has ZERO basics...I'm not really sure what this means.  It's been a long time since anybody has run 2 full sets of duals, perhaps this allowed him to withstand strips better?  I suppose when you are running a disenchant MB, as well as 4x vindicate, then you aren't as afraid of crucible lock.  However, I've got to say, those vindicates are PRIME drain material...

So, we can determine from his MB that he has great game against oath, and...what else? Obviously decent against combo, just given the fact he's running 4x duress and 4x fow...

Finally, this is one of the worst Will's you could run...imagine casting will...time walk, a. recall, and that's it.
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majestyk1136
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« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2004, 10:58:42 am »

One can only assume that one of the best magic players ever would know what he was doing but this is insane...  He could not have run into any stax or workshop prison all day, unless (and this is just a theory) he was simply using the intimidation factor of his being HUGE to psychologically overwhelm his opponent into submission and/or big mistakes.
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« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2004, 11:44:31 am »

#1.
Quote
Will, the most broken card in the game, dropped to about half its level of play out of nowhere. Fortunately, it's easy to explain because Oath kinda makes it hard to accumulate a graveyard. Still, I was creeped out by it when I first looked at it.


Certainly true, but this may be oversimplifying things a little. I would explain it this way:

Looking at your "State of the Metagame" table:

11.2% - _8.3, _8.9, 11.1, 17.5, 14.1, _6.3 Storm Combo
10.7% - 14.6, 19.6, _9.7, _7.5, 10.9, _1.6 4C Control
_7.7% - 10.4, 10.7, _8.3, _2.5, _9.4, _5.0 Hulk Smash
_6.9% - _2.1, _7.2, _2.8, 12.5,_6.3, 10.0 Stacker
_6.2% - _2.1, _3.6, _6.9, 10.0, _4.7, 10.0 Stax
_5.8% - _6.3, _1.8, _1.4, _7.5, _7.8, 10.0 Control Slavery
_5.4% - _2.1, _0.0, 13.9, _2.5, _6.3, _7.5 MUD / wMUD


The frequencey of top 8 occurences 3 of the 4 "prominent" archetypes (in this case I'll define prominent as >5% mean metagame occurence) that can support Yawgmoth's Will - 4cC, Hulk, and Storm combo - all dropped off dramatically from September to October-November.

The new presence of Orchard Oath in Top 8 brackets is almost certainly coupled to much of the decrease in 4cC (not necessarily because one beats the other, but because people playing one archetype may have switched to the other) . Maybe Tog's as well, although for me a more satisfactory explanation is that Tog's decline is coupled to the rise in Control Slaver (can't really couple it to Fish because Fish's presence also decreased during this time period) and since both of these archetypes play Yawgmoth's Will, you would only see a decrease in Wills if the total %  of Hulk + Control Slaver decks decreases too. This does happen (17.2% -> 15%), so it's another contributor.

The most major contributor appears to be the coupling of Storm Combo to Workshop decks. Storm drops from 14.1->6.3%, and at the same time Stax+Stacker+MUD increases from 17.3->27.5%. Since the Storm decks are highly played and invariably use Yawgmoth's Will, it then makes sense that the increased presence of their overall worst matchup, Prison decks, would keep more Wills out of T8 brackets.

So, to summarize, the decrease in Yawgmoth's Will is not only due to the increase in Oath (at the expense of 4cC) but also due to the increase in Workshop decks (at the expense of Storm combo).  This is an important distinction to make because even if Oath declines over the next couple months, if Workshop decks are still highly played they may keep the number of Yawgmoth's Wills in check by themselves.


#2. Re: Child of Gaea. Built-in insurance against Control Magic and Animate Dead/Necromancy? Razz

#3. Can we steer this discussion away from Nassif's deck and more towards the rest of Dr. Sylvan's article?
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« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2004, 11:45:13 am »

Basically the random French T1 players are all terrible. I think Toad was judging that day, too.
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« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2004, 11:49:47 am »

#3, no I would prefer not.  The discussion of the metagame is important, but I'm much more interested in how non t1 player's dominate the environment, running such crap as vindicate...

Then start a different thread about it. Its relevance to Dr. Sylvan's article is tangential at best.

Hyperion


Well, considering I started this thread...This thread wasn't started by Dr. Sylvan.  But whatever, I see a relevant thread now.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2004, 12:41:51 pm »

Kevin Cron kicked Nassif's ass at PT Columbus T1 side event. He also beat Kai Budde.
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