[Rebuilding]MaskNought

[gnomehunter]

Found this one on a search and thought I'd drag it up out of the grave.

I picked up Mask about a year ago and have worked through every knowen build untile I arived at my fun deck.

 "Judge!!!!" (I carried the card erratas for half the deck.)
30
Mana
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 black lotus
1 mana crypt

3 elvish spirit guide
3 BoP
3 Quirion ranger

3 Tropical Island
3 Bayou
3 windswept hearth
2 polluted delta
1 island
1swamp
3 forest

8
Draw
1 ancestral recall
3 brainstorm
4 survival of the fittest

9
Win conditions
3 Volrath’s shape shifter
1 phage the untouchable
1 akroma angel of wrath
4 phyrexian dreadnought

8
Utility
1 psychatog
1 cephalid inkshrouder
1 squee goblin nabob
1 bone shredder
1 gilded drake
1 plague bearer
2 uktabi orangutan

7
Spells/tricks
1 time walk
2 unearths
4 illusionary mask

Sideboard
3 ground seal
3 chains of Meph.
3 arcane labratory
2 ukatabi orangutan (some time's welders/ Mox monkey)
1 bone shreder
1 platnum angle
2 xantic swarm

Agro and control are usualy no trouble.  Stax could often be turned around with a simple spirit guide into a mask.  The only reason I stoped playing this deck is because Two land belcher and Kobold clamp became big around my area.

Does any one have a suggestion or two on how I might adjust my build in a 3sphere less world?

[AnFgangsta]

See Gnome, I always saw the Vengeur build as the slower one as opposed to the prodominately black build, and instead of splashing white as seen with the initial deck, I would imagine green a better choice..Oxidize = basically better than Seal of Cleansing..enchantments arent going to be what shuts you down.

However much I love Mask-Nought, Smenen does have a point, I mean a first turn Null Rod just laughs at you..Oxidize, Rack and Ruin, Shatter, Naturalize, Disenchant all cheap spells which just make you cry. Now, you CAN protect yourself with discard, Unmask is some key tech here, along with duress and hymn to torach (yes may be overkill but its necessary if you want to win) which would give you a GREATER chance of success, in taht you have the ability to take the threats out of your opponents hand, but in most cases it just comes down to who goes first..Null Rod turn 1 = X_X if you catch my drift. Splashing green for Oxidize could be of help here.

You will find most of the time you are paying about 6 life through Nights Whisper (yes meaning multiple)/Spoils of the vault just to get your combo out..and it really hurts the team to lose the combo to something like a Goblin Vandal. I mean I think it stands a better chance than most think when you make it discard heavy, but I still have trouble seeing it take 1st place.

[gnomehunter]

I would have to agree with AnFgangsta and the rest of you that this build can be slower, but to tell you the truth it doesn't need to win on turn three, though more often than not it can.  When I ran spoils mask it had 4xdures, 3xunmask, and 4xforce.  Even with that level of disruption all it takes is one spell to "ruin" your day. Because of that I found that the Vengeur build, with out white, is like a cockroach especially when you add unearths/Hell's Caretaker. Damping Matrix is the only one card drop that ruins your day all others can be delt with even blood moon.
        What made the deck work so well is that I could play with my opponents board while setting up for the kill, IE Shapeshifter Phage.

In summary I can say that when I played the "balls to the wall" version it won games but not consistently and with high risk.  It was when I accepted Mask nought as truly being aggro that I quite going for an early win and went for resilience and control with the ability to "just win".

Are there any suggestions on how I might fight combo?

[AnFgangsta]

Well gnome, I have to stress the speed with which this deck must win, I mean Tendrils based decks, Belcher and all that good stuff Generally captures the W by turn 4 a GREAT deal of the time, especailly Rector Tendrils (atleast from my playtesting and tournament reports).

 So I mean you really need to win soon as possible, thus being packed with disruption is your best bet to win, Vengeur is wayyy too slow. YOu must take out that Null Rod and the rest of the cards that just make you cuss in your head.

Now, it is true that Null Rod would not be played by rector decks, but even taking out Mask with Oxidize or whatever else sets you bag big time.  Chain of Vapor on your nought sets you back 2 turns of an attack wich can be the game in most cases.

[the boogie man]

Why not just throw in a true believer so that the tendrills can't target you?

[AnFgangsta]

Yes willow..but that will only stall them shortly, it could be enough to get the win against rector tendrils if they dont find chain of vapor or what not, but its still weak against belcher..belcher itself can kill the believer, making it not very effective at all against the deck.  HOWEVER if green was splashed for Oxidize there MAY be some potential.  One of the biggest problems is actually resolving mask..sometimes its best to wait 1 extra turn to duress, or be sure to unmask then play the mask.  I am digging the True Believer.. a lot actually.

 The problem then becomes finding the nought after you play believer, ya know? I mean would you spoils for the believer first? If so you lose a lot of life most of the time, how..might that then be a reasont o maindeck negators and factories along with hyppie? Im going to test out True Believer now..I mean its not going to make the deck unstoppable but it seems like a good idea, Ill let everyone know how it went tomorrow.

[gnomehunter]

True believer is hard to hard cast in most situations your not going to get it out turn one.  However with the full english compliment to the deck true believer gains a shock factore that most combo decks don't see coming. It you can save yourself from one blech against two land it will usualy take them a few turns to recover with luck you can dig up an answer to the problem. I ran platnum angel in it's place, in hind-sight I think that was a bad call.

AnFgangsta: It may just be my dumb luck but when I ran this deck unhindered my clock was three to four turns. The disruption of the deck is built in. Example being Turn one birds/survival turn two pith an uktabi orangutan to get shapeshifter (lay it or pitch it to get phage and then unearth it) either way orangutan trigers and I blow a mana source. Next turn swing for win.  It sounds odd but too many of my games played out just like this with my opponent crying about needing just one more mana.

Keeping your options open is the key to playing this deck. Every little gimick you can think of must be used.
Full english combo/null rod (I have used null rod in the sideboard it works)
Mask nought vrs. aggro/control

[AnFgangsta]

Ive never played the Vengeur style of Mask but I must stand by my statements thats its win would be slower under typical conditions because the other Mask deck goes Either Illusionary Mask/Spoils of the vault for Mask or Nought and usually plays them both first turn, second turn at the latest.  I dont see how Vengeur can consistantly acheive that speed, that was why I made the comment about speed.

[Triple_S]

If you admit you have never played the deck, I fail to see how you can acccurately comment on the deck.  Or if you insist on commenting on a deck you have never played, I would expect that your comments would bear very little weight since you have no experience with it.

[gnomehunter]

I figured you hadn't. Throw the deck together and you will know the joy of having 8 mask in one deck and the greates creature tutor ever. What you have been missing is that the noughts are the back up plan for when things go wrong.

[AnFgangsta]

Triple S: I have played Mask-Nought but now the Vengeur Mask. I mean its simple logic when I say its slower than Normal mask in that you are losing speed using Volrath's Shapeshifter, and even survival.

You are losing time, atleast one or two turns by playing Survival, where as in Mask you get straight to the point with Spoils, consultation, tutors, etc. These spells are cheaper..I mean survival is 2 and then 1 to activate..THAT IS LOSS OF SPEED I mean I dont know how else to spell that out.

I mean its going to come down to what you expect to see..if null rods are going to see heavy play, obviously Vengeur may be the better choice due to utility, but if you just need to pound there face in as fast as possible say against Oath or control or something where the win is taken mid-late game then Masknought is probably your best choice.

Vengeur seems like it would be extremely weak against say Oath for example..I mean dotn get me wrong, I played a deck somewhat similar in pricible using Oath of Ghouls etc and Oath was a horrible match up thus I would expect the same in this case.

[cssamerican]

AnFgangsta: Vengeur Masqué is slower at gold fishing than Spoils Mask; however, I would rather be consistent and resilient then to be moderately quick and fragile. You must understand that speed becomes less important than resiliency and flexibility for each turn that passes. Since in most cases, Spoils Mask can’t possibly win until turn 3 or 4 I don’t find its speed that big of an asset. In fact, it is quite slow for such a single-minded deck.

Vengeur Masqué runs cards that are good versus Oath such a Waterfront Bouncer and Swords to Plowshares in addition to counter magic. It also has 11 or 12 must counter cards that control decks have to stop from hitting play, that is quite a lot in my opinion. So, I fail to see how you think Vengeur Masqué isn't well equiped to handle oath or control decks.

[SonataOfTheCathedral]

Has anyone brainstormed any decklists to help it fit into the meta better? I would think maybe a Mono-Blue control build might be very decent and actually pretty powerful if played and built properly.

I also played Ninja Mask back in June, when the metagame began to shift and the last card on earth I'd like to see was Rack And Ruin. It was really a nightmare...but when I was playing Ninja Mask I thought wow this deck idea is awful. Has there not been anyone to make a better build for such a combo?  There must be some sort of deck that would 10x more viable then what is presently known.

[AnFgangsta]

Ahh css I assumed that gnomehunter's decklist was Vengeur, I remember the V-Mask decklist playing most of the cards in his list, if you played counters then yeah the deck would be better. Problem was nobody posted the deck and seeing his I assumed that is what you were talking about.

I mean yes Vengeur is more balanced but my comment was about speed, it was Triple S's comment that was kept in mind, he seemed to not believe V-Mask was slower and I was simply spelling out why it is slower, simply proving the speed point thats all. =)

[gnomehunter]

The deck list I posted was as I said my own little run off vengeur mask and ninja mask.  I droped dures and the forces because I found they ruined my game tempo more then my opponents spells.  I am not a fool and under stand that the forces are to be used in a do or die situation and indead have there place in type one.  However what is the point in casting a force when you must pitch you win condition from the game.  More often then not it is best to play agresive and smart. With a large number of must counter spells it is easy to bait out a counter or two before going for the win.  The only time I ever ran into a countrol problem was against mono blue ( he managed to get three phids and a library in the first two turns.)