epeeguy
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« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2005, 10:34:55 pm » |
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Your running 7 lands!!! I feel this is a bit too much as I always draw into a second one when you don't want one/can't drop it. I feel that running 7 lands is ideal for the deck (unless you are using Dual Lands and Land Grants, which has a wholly different issue with it). Especially when you want to have access to several colors of mana, and you may not necessarily go off on Turn 1 and are aiming for Turn 2. However, I would certainly entertain reducing the number of lands, if you could further explain why you feel this way and illustrate your point better.
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Tristal
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« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2005, 12:25:04 am » |
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@ Tristal: So your running two otherwise useless cards that you can't hardcast just to run another expensive sorcery? IMO it's not worth the space.
Because obviously, 5 mana is way too much for this deck to handle to cast Memory Jar.  Memory Jar is not the best card in the deck, but it's definitely not useless. Yes, DSC costs a lot of mana. Yes, Tinker->DSC wins the game for three mana. The utility of winning the game for 2U outweighs the annoyance of drawing DSC. Keep in mind, I don't run DSC maindeck, it's just a nice one-card sideboard I don't have to think about versus certain matchups. I tend to agree that 7-8 lands is perfect when not running the Land Grant plan. When you run draw 7s anyway, drawing one land out of 7 cards really isn't a big deal; it's more important that you have stable mana turn 1. This deck definitely can't use FoW, there's no question. if Kobolds were blue though... Less than four Skullclamps is bad. Skullclamp is the key to the deck, far moreso than Glimpse. Extra Clamps only cost one and add storm and Academy mana, it's not a tremendous issue; also, it's common to have Clamp countered, so having a backup isn't such a bad plan. Wheel is too good to cut Mines. Also, Land Grant has a horrendous drawback in this deck - often the key to winning is to Jedi your opponent into countering the wrong spell; with Land Grant, they can comfortably know your exact plans and what point they need to counter. Epee, how has 3 Tendrils worked for you?
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epeeguy
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« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2005, 08:52:04 am » |
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Less than four Skullclamps is bad. Skullclamp is the key to the deck, far moreso than Glimpse. Extra Clamps only cost one and add storm and Academy mana, it's not a tremendous issue; also, it's common to have Clamp countered, so having a backup isn't such a bad plan. True, there is a certain benefit to being able to play Skullclamps in order to add to the Storm count. However, I honestly haven't had that much trouble with getting a decent Storm count in order to play a game ending Tendrils without having the second Skullclamp. Furthermore, given that I've floated  {B} or  in order to play the Tendrils, I'm very reluctant to play a spell that might reduce my ability to play the Tendrils itself. However, I haven't really tried the 3 Skullclamp/3 Tendrils build in order to see if it is just as effective. I've goldfished about 5 games, and it doesn't seem to be that bad (of course, I also mulliganed aggressively to get a good starting hand). My hypothesis is that 3 Skullclamps should be okay for the deck and that 4 might just be 1 too many. This is based on my understanding of probability though (which is a bit rusty). Nevertheless, I want to try it out several more times before I switch back. Epee, how has 3 Tendrils worked for you? I think, in theory, it is sound to run the third one. A poster in the other thread noted that it was probably better to run a third one, as opposed to using Burning Wish to fetch the third one from the Sideboard. You stand a better chance of drawing a single Tendrils with 3 in the deck, as opposed to 2, and you don't run into too many problems of fizzling out on your Storm count with Glimpse (I've done that about 15% to 20% of the time when goldfishing). Based on what little I've done, it seems to be working fine. But, that's all preliminary and I may revise things as I test more.
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Nehptis
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« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2005, 09:12:39 am » |
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Breath and Insom: Read my post again. I never said you must include FOW. I said possibly. But, currently the U count is too low to use it.
Furhermore, test the deck. If you do not run U then you are in total mulligan / top deck mode. I can't think of one (good) combo deck that doesn't run U and the reason is that combo needs to set itself up and does not want to pray and rely on top decks and only the black tutors.
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Imsomniac101
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« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2005, 03:46:42 am » |
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Yes I realize that you said possibly but I wanted some people to shake the stigma that every combo deck must play FoW.
Yes I also realize that without blue, the deck is in top deck/mulligan mode; but I found that adding blue bastardizes the mana base to say the least. Think about it, how many non-land blue sources are there in the deck (I'm not including land because as far as I know Kobolds doesn't run Fastbond which is restricted anyway).
Number of non-land blue mana sources: 1x Crop Rotation (for Academy) 1x Mox Saphire 1x Lotus 1x Petal
That's only 4 (real mana sources) spread out over the entire deck as opposed to the number of Black/Green sources. No Chromatic Sphere does not count as a blue source because you are paying two mana for one.
There is also the issue of the draws that you get off Brainstorm. Like Breath said, Brainstorm isn't too hot when your running 15+ creatures.
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Mindslaver>ur deck revolves around tinker n yawgwill which makes it inferior Ctrl-Freak>so if my deck is based on the 2 most broken cards in t1,then it sucks?gotcha 78>u'r like fuckin chuck norris Evenpence>If Jar Wizard were a person, I'd do her
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Tristal
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« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2005, 03:48:31 am » |
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Every mana source in the deck is blue when you play Chromatic Spheres.
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epeeguy
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« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2005, 09:12:09 am » |
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And to be fair, the number of times you need to use  for a spell is not quite as often that you need more sources for it. At least, not the way I've been playing the deck. My primary use for it is to help keep up a bit of steam in case the deck looks as if it is stalling out (playing a Draw7 to get the hand back up in size), or to generate the 9th spell for the purposes of Storm. Plus, the relatively low number of Blue cards and their lack of color intensive requirements doesn't merit quite that many dedicated Blue sources. While you want some, you don't need quite that many or else you have issues trying to get the  {B} in order to play Tendrils; or even  to play some of your other spells. Now, if you want to run Brainstorms or more Blue cards... then definitely you have to tweak the mana base. But, right now? It's not really as necessary as you think it is.
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Nehptis
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« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2005, 09:33:41 am » |
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You are missing: 1 x Trop Which can be fetched by 4 x Land Grant. Getting blue is very easy. Our build doesn't run the C spheres and U isn't a problem. Read the T1 articles on SCG written by Mana Drain members that discuss the power of Brainstorm. I think even MARO on the WOTC site quoted a section of one of the SCG articles discussing the power of Brainstorm. I'll post a link if I can find it. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mr162"Combo decks all run 4x brainstorm; even dedicated turn 1 win decks like Belcher that run no shuffle effects beyond a couple of tutors." And Clamp with Land Grants has more shuffle effects.
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BreathWeapon
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« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2005, 04:42:06 pm » |
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There isn't a single educated member of the vintage community that doesn't know the power of Brainstorm. WE KNOW. The problem is that this deck can't use FoW and that incorporates additional problems in an actual metagame that has to be taken into consideration, ala Trinisphere. Sure, I'd love to Brainstorm and set up the second turn win ... just as much as I would love to see a Trinisphere resolve No combo deck in T1 can afford to Brainstorm and still win on the first turn, consistantly, except MD Tendrils. I may very well add Blue to my deck with a Tropical Island, but it would most likely be for Draw 7's. @ Users, Is there a consensus on how many creatures are necessary to make glimpse a fully functional threat on the first turn? I'm finding that the deck needs roughly 20 creatures. Also, Order of the Ebon Hand seems like an incredibly good mana filtering creature. Considering he can glimpse for 1 card, clamp for 2 cards and only costs you B to play off a ritual he makes Chromatic Sphere a questionable choice in the deck. Any one put any testing into Infernal Pact yet?
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Revvik
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« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2005, 05:58:12 pm » |
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I'm speaking purely out of zero experience here, but wouldn't the blue draw-7 Timetwister give you an additional way (outside of Yawgmoth's Will) to reuse Kobolds? Say, after you've clamped a bunch of them, you can lay more, drop your accelerants that you drew from the clamping, play Timetwister, and recycle more Kobolds (and Glimpses, if you run them, therefore increasing the chances of casting three Glimpses + followed by creatures). Just my two cents.
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Tristal
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« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2005, 11:53:09 pm » |
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I may very well add Blue to my deck with a Tropical Island, but it would most likely be for Draw 7's. Windfall's not very good in this deck, especially since your main game plan seems to consist of Cabal Therapy/Duress before you go off. @ Users,
Is there a consensus on how many creatures are necessary to make glimpse a fully functional threat on the first turn? I'm finding that the deck needs roughly 20 creatures. I've actually cut mine to 11, so we must be playing very different deckstyles. Also, Order of the Ebon Hand seems like an incredibly good mana filtering creature. Considering he can glimpse for 1 card, clamp for 2 cards and only costs you B to play off a ritual he makes Chromatic Sphere a questionable choice in the deck. I had no idea what you were talking about at first, then I realized you meant Initiates of the Ebon Hand. This deck almost never needs more than two specifically Black mana at a time. If you have a Ritual, you don't need this guy. You don't need a Glimpse or a Clamp to make Chromatic Sphere good. The function of Sphere in this deck most of the time isn't to wash Colorless mana, it's to deal with the fact that you can produce five green (Cradle) or five blue (Academy) and are holding Ritual-DT, or have a Cradle and need blue for Timetwister, or so you can go Ritual - Sphere - Glimpse - Clamp. Shorter version: You need the mana fixing before you set up, not after.
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Imsomniac101
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« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2005, 02:46:13 am » |
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Here's a refresher decklist for the BG version: //NAME: Kobolds 2 Bayou 1 Gaea's Cradle 4 Land Grant 1 Lion's Eye Diamond 1 Black Lotus 1 Lotus Petal 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Jet 1 Chrome Mox 4 Dark Ritual 2 Culling the Weak 1 Crop Rotation 4 Elvish Spirit Guide 1 Diabolic Intent 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Demonic Consultation 4 Glimpse of Nature 4 Skullclamp 2 Tendrils of Agony 4 Crimson Kobolds 4 Crookshank Kobolds 4 Kobolds of Kher Keep 4 Ornithopter 2 Phyrexian Walker 1 Yawgmoth's Will 4 Cabal Therapy SB: 1 Vampiric Tutor SB: 1 Necropotence SB: 1 Yawgmoth's Bargain SB: 3 Elvish Lyrist SB: 1 Elvish Scrapper SB: 4 Scavenger Folk SB: 4 Xantid Swarm
I'll explain the card choices in my next post as I don't have the time right now (because of school)
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Mindslaver>ur deck revolves around tinker n yawgwill which makes it inferior Ctrl-Freak>so if my deck is based on the 2 most broken cards in t1,then it sucks?gotcha 78>u'r like fuckin chuck norris Evenpence>If Jar Wizard were a person, I'd do her
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Nehptis
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« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2005, 09:53:43 am » |
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And as I have pointed out numerous times with the B/G list if you don't have a Tutor / Consult or the combo in your opening hand then the deck sits there and plays top deck combo. Blue for Brainstorms and Mystical Tutor at a minimum is a must.
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goobafish
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« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2005, 12:22:33 pm » |
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I played against this deck on saturday while playing tps, and I lost horribly. The deck he ran was very consistant and he didn't play allot of cards because he didnt have them.
In order to make this dck more consistant and less explosive you can do the following with splashing a small amount of blue.
4 Skullclamp 4 Glimse of Nature 2 Tendrils of Agony 1 Darksteel Collosus
12 Kobolds 4 Ornithopter
1 Sol Ring 1 Mana Crypt 1 Black Lotus 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Sapphire
1 Yawgmoth's Will 1 Demonic Consultation 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Timetwister 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Crop Rotation 1 Tinker
4 Land Grant 4 Dark Ritual 4 Culling the Weak
1 Gaea's Cradle 4 Bayou 2 Tropical Island
This deck needs to run differently from tps and not run the huge bombs in roder to win. It can win easily once it gets the skullclamp, the addition of blue helps find the clamp or the glimse you need to go off, but Night's Whispers could be substituted for the blue cards i nthis deck. Also the Tinker -> DSC is an alternative win under trinisphere that is very important. All the moxen are not needed in this deck, it is more important hen you are going off to draw a kobold or a draw spell than an off color moxen.
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ElyasMachera
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« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2005, 07:47:46 pm » |
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I've been tooling around with this deck for a while and this is my current list.
Creatures - 18 12 kobold 3 tinder wall 3 elvish spirit guide
Draw - 11 4 skullclamp 3 glimpse of nature 1 ancestral recall 1 timetwister 1 wheel of fortune 1 windfall
Other stuff - 11 2 tendrils of agony 1 Yag Will 1 Necropotence 1 demonic tutor 1 vampiric tutor 1 rebuild 1 crop rotation 3 cabal therapy
Mana - 20 4 forbidden orchard 1 city of brass 1 tolarian academy 8 solocrypten 1 lotus petal 4 dark ritual 1 mana vault
Card choice winfall - this slot is one of the open ones in the deck. I have windfall as it serves as an early draw 7 and a late game way to dump your hand if it fills up with unless cards from claming etc.
Tinder wall - this is a great creature to go off with. Its a net cost of 0 to draw 2 with clamp, but it does cost a green so there are only 3.
rebuild - 3sphere and platinum angel exist.
cabal therapy - a lot of builds seem to run no disruption which cant be done in a combo deck(what numbers has belcher put up?). This also has the ability to just rip people's hands apart and can up the storm count very fast.
forbidden orchard/ city of brass - This mana base makes much more sense to me. It give access to more cards, lets you fight against oath before you go off and has the same weakness as the land grant builds to waste.
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epeeguy
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« Reply #45 on: March 01, 2005, 09:32:19 am » |
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Well, I guess there's a few things to now consider for the deck. Firstly, Trinisphere has been Restricted, so that allows the deck to function a bit better. Sphere of Resistence is somewhat problematic still, but I think that's not really a huge issue to worry about for the deck. So, I think that the sideboard slots can adjusted (get rid of the Decontructs). While I haven't played around too much with it (have to change a few things and do more testing now, this is the next step I'd take: Main Deck4 Crimson Kobolds 4 Crookshank Kobolds 4 Elvish Spirit Guide 4 Kobolds of Kher Keep 4 Glimpse of Nature 3 Skullclamp 3 Tendrils of Agony 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Crop Rotation 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Diabolic Intent 3 Duress 1 Necropotence 1 Timetwister 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Wheel of Fortune 1 Yawgmoth's Will 2 Bayou 1 Black Lotus 2 Chromatic Sphere 4 Dark Ritual 1 Gaea’s Cradle 3 Land Grant 1 Lotus Petal 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Tolarian Academy 2 Tropical Island Sideboard3 Cabal Therapy 2 Coretapper 2 Naturalize 3 Rebuild 3 Xantid Swarm 2 *Open Slots* Of course, with the addition of Portal, there's a couple of cards to consider. For example, Personal Tutor (  ; Search for Sorcery and put it on top of your Library) and Imperial Seal (  ; Search for a card and put it on top of your Library). Either one might make a decent addition to the deck. Thoughts?
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It's the wood that should fear your hand, not the other way around. No wonder you can't do it, you acquiesce to defeat before you even begin. - Pai Mei
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Tristal
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« Reply #46 on: March 01, 2005, 09:42:18 am » |
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Hahaha, Coretapper! Take that, Chalice!
Actually, I don't think this guy is really needed, and I'm sure you don't need both these and 3 Rebuild now.
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epeeguy
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« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2005, 09:49:33 am » |
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Actually, I don't think this guy is really needed, and I'm sure you don't need both these and 3 Rebuild now. Probably not. However, one thing I was considering for the Rebuild was a way to simply up the Storm count; that is, using it as another way to get to the 9 count in order to Tendrils and win. Of course, given that gets rid of the Chalice and Sphere of Resistence... well, that does take care of that. So, I guess then that would give 4 slots open in the Sideboard. Do you put in something like Root Maze now? Increase the count on some of the cards in there? I guess I'm just scratching my head at this point on what to do with those slots...
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Level 2 Judge
It's the wood that should fear your hand, not the other way around. No wonder you can't do it, you acquiesce to defeat before you even begin. - Pai Mei
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Denney The Third
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« Reply #48 on: March 01, 2005, 12:16:22 pm » |
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I have a very different kobold build: 12x kobolds 4x dark rit 4x culling the weak 4x skullclamp 4x glimpse of nature 4x ESG 2x bayou 1x trops(might change to a gaes cradl-seems interesting) 5x moxs 1x lotus 1x chrome mox 1x lotus petal 1x mana crypt 4x chromatic sphere 1x deathwish 3x tendrils of agony 3 x landgrant 1x demonic tutor 1x yawg will 1x time twister 2x tinder wall 1x ancestrall recall. I allways go for the risk of turn one win, and it seems to happen 60% of the time or so. Not running necro because hoping to not need a turn 2. the draw power seems consistent after you've had enough play experience with the deck to know how it functions. It seems flexible around FoW because they have to counter both skullclamp and glimpse and can allmost never do both. the cullings add the extra mana power to keep on chugging along with spells like timetwister, chromatic sphere, and clamp. Max damage I've done turn one was about 280 dmg. The deathwish is in there to get things like hullbreack/spare tendrils/and whatnot for either the win or to get rid of nuissances such as Platinum angel. equipping tinder wall then saccing for 2 cards and 2 mana is pretty amazing. If anyone has CONSTRUCTIVE ideas about my deck feel free to send me a private msg.
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People who think TMD is a place for people to come together and innovate type 1 obviously arent on a team and dont know what's actually happening.
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Imsomniac101
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« Reply #49 on: March 02, 2005, 12:23:13 am » |
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Denney: I would suggest making the following changes to your deck; - 1x Bayou - 1x Deathwish - 1x Culling the Weak - 1x Mox Pearl - 1x Mox Ruby - 2x Tinder Wall
+ 1x Tolarian Academy/Gaea's Cradle (This is up to personal preference, but I would go with the Cradle) + 1x Demonic Consultation + 1x Land Grant + 1x Crop Rotaion + 3x Duress/Cabal Therapy (I would go with Therapy)
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Mindslaver>ur deck revolves around tinker n yawgwill which makes it inferior Ctrl-Freak>so if my deck is based on the 2 most broken cards in t1,then it sucks?gotcha 78>u'r like fuckin chuck norris Evenpence>If Jar Wizard were a person, I'd do her
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Denney The Third
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« Reply #50 on: March 02, 2005, 12:36:34 am » |
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I considered duress but after playtesting discovered that one single FoW doesnt allways stop me, but I may give it a try. Like I said I may try the cradle. As for tolarian academy I would allmost never have it hit play. I plan to win turn one and the land I get is allmost allways from a Landgrant. the odds of getting and effectivly using academy turn one just seem to low. Personally I think Demonic Consultation is too risky. Thanks for the advice. I'll try some testing with a Cradle , crop rotation and maybe an academy and post any differences I see in play.
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People who think TMD is a place for people to come together and innovate type 1 obviously arent on a team and dont know what's actually happening.
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JamesPr
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« Reply #51 on: March 02, 2005, 03:06:57 pm » |
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As for tolarian academy I would allmost never have it hit play. The time that it does hit play, it will be extremely powerful. Personally I think Demonic Consultation is too risky That's what the old type 2 pros thought, before necropotence decks dominated with four of them. It will win you a lot more games than it will lose you, especially if you only go for 4s of in your deck such as Skullclamp.
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Team RAMROD of Jackson
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epeeguy
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« Reply #52 on: March 02, 2005, 03:13:56 pm » |
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So, I guess then that would give 4 slots open in the Sideboard. Do you put in something like Root Maze now? Increase the count on some of the cards in there? I guess I'm just scratching my head at this point on what to do with those slots... Some time to reflect let me come up with something here: Ground Seal. While Welder may not necessarily be that overly powerful, it could present problems. Therefore, it might be wise to run Ground Seal to prevent the Mindslaver recursion with Welder, in case games go long. So, potential sideboard... Sideboard3 Cabal Therapy 3 Ground Seal 2 Naturalize 3 Rebuild 3 Xantid Swarm 1 *Open Slot* The cantrip effect off Ground Seal isn't bad either, immediately netting you a card for your efforts. It also is reasonably strong against Animate Dead/Worldgorger Dragon, and keeps them from setting up that combo. Thoughts?
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AnFgangsta
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« Reply #53 on: March 02, 2005, 04:36:30 pm » |
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Yes, I agree with the moderator, the deck does truly have potential but all of the builds I have seen just get stuck somewhere on the way to the top. So here are some ideas, not that they would fill the void to make it a lot more competetive, just some things that could be changed in your decklist to make it more viable. Gemstone mine - Hmm it just always sucks when it runs out, I was thinking there could be a way to run Forbidden Orchard, yes them gettnig little 1/1 guys could be bad, but you should be going off before they become a problem. When this deck lasts more than like 4 or 5 turns its basically doomed. Utilizing green also brings xantid swarm into the picture, not only is its ability sweet but its clampable too, I feel it atleast deserves a place in sideboard if not maindecked then again Ive had mixed reactions when it comes to the swarm. I do like the tinder wall idea, thats pretty cool, 2 mana + 2 cards  Naturalize definately over the deconstruct that I saw in one of the sideboards. The deck has the ability to stall other decks just long enough to piece the combo together usually by second turn 75% of the time from what I have heard (this ofcourse is using a decklist similar to Denny's. Consultation would be icky in this deck, you are going to be playing a great deal of the cards in your deck so risking ever the 6 to activate consultation is a bad thing. Death wish seems iffy to me, but if it works for you I mean I dont know what to replace it with. I was thinking maybe Sylvan Library could find a spot in here, sure it cannot be used first turn or anything, but it pretty much ensured you piecing together the combo without getting stuck.
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epeeguy
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« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2005, 04:42:30 pm » |
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Naturalize definately over the deconstruct that I saw in one of the sideboards. Deconstruct was more an option against Trinisphere (when it was Unrestricted) in order to both destroy the Trinisphere and then recoup the mana from the Deconstruct. That way you had  {G}{G} already to start fueling Glimpse and other cards for your combo. In that respect, it helped you a bit with recovering from the Trinisphere in order to combo out. Now, Rebuild (or Naturalize) is significantly superior.
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Imsomniac101
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« Reply #55 on: March 03, 2005, 03:01:11 am » |
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@ AnFgansta: Consultation is the best tutor for storm decks simply because it costs B. You would only tutor for a restricted card if you were stuck in a rut or when you have Tendrils in hand (which is highly likely). Deathwish is too expensive of a tutor and Sylvan Library is just crap, play Necropotence instead, it is far superior
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Mindslaver>ur deck revolves around tinker n yawgwill which makes it inferior Ctrl-Freak>so if my deck is based on the 2 most broken cards in t1,then it sucks?gotcha 78>u'r like fuckin chuck norris Evenpence>If Jar Wizard were a person, I'd do her
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AnFgangsta
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« Reply #56 on: March 03, 2005, 08:56:17 am » |
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Imsomniac: Yes that is true, but it would be very limited as far as how good it is in this deck, you are running off kobholds and thus would need to see as many as possible..consulting, espectially for a restricted card can just tear the deck apart. I mean first you lose 6 cards...then you lose even more. 12 Kobby's may seem like a lot, but when you play the deck sometimes you get stuck and consulting just makes it worse ripping ur deck apart.
Sylvan Library actually is a much better card to play over consultation, its far less harmful to yourself and even though you may argue its slow, you are able to use ita lot faster than you cuold consultation without throwing the game away.
Now, keep in mind the deck I played did not run chrom spheres but I HIGHLY doubt they would make up the difference. The addition of glimpse of nature may help here also I like that, but the fact remains that consultation is going to cause yu a lot more grief than helping you out in my opinion.
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"I love it when you call me Big Papa"
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epeeguy
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« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2005, 09:11:57 am » |
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Now, keep in mind the deck I played did not run chrom spheres but I HIGHLY doubt they would make up the difference.
The Chromatic Spheres are very helpful for a few reasons: 1.) They increase your Storm count. 2.) They help fix your colors. 3.) They are "cantrips" and let you draw a card off them. Each of these is not to be undervalued. When you realize that you need to get  {B} to fire off your Tendrils, being able to change  to  and then  to  {B}{B} for the Tendrils is certainly useful. Of course, if your build doesn't require it, then that's understandable. However, I've found them to be a very helpful addition to the deck.
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Level 2 Judge
It's the wood that should fear your hand, not the other way around. No wonder you can't do it, you acquiesce to defeat before you even begin. - Pai Mei
(Retired Poster)
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andrewpate
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« Reply #58 on: March 04, 2005, 04:32:50 pm » |
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Man, it's been awhile but it looks like school might be letting up some and I'm going to be able to put in some more work on this deck. Just some quick observations:
1. I wish people would stop posting lists with terrible creatures like Phyrexian Walker in them. 16 zero-cost creatures is enough. Even two Skullclamps can't make use of a Walker or a Shield Sphere, so you are just running them for use with Glimpse of Nature--I understand the temptation to cycle your deck, but we abandoned the 20-24 zero-coster builds a long time ago.
2. Cabal Therapy is better than Duress in this deck. On the first turn, you cast cast it blindly off a Mox Jet and grab a Force of Will, just exactly like Duress ends up doing half the time (and sometimes it can get two of them). And if you do "whiff," a single Kobold will happily give its life to hit whatever they're holding that is important. I cut Duress around Christmas.
3. Diabolic Intent is not restricted. You don't need to have 1 random copy of it sitting in there. In many, many cases the 3 Intents I run are Demonic Tutors 2-4. Everyone who isn't, you must start running this card. A lot of people have asked what Kobolds has going for it over TPS--one of the big things is the incredible tutoring power lent by this card.
4. Wheel of Fortune is good. Timetwister is not. Blue janks up your mana base too badly and doesn't lend enough to the deck. B/G is clearly the way to go. The correct lands to be running are something along the lines of:
4xBayou 1xGaea's Cradle 1xTolarian Academy (or possibly a second Gaea's Cradle) 4xLand Grant 1xCrop Rotation
The debatable slots there are the Crop Rotation and the second Cradle. I currently have 2 Cradles and a Rotation, but that has gone back and forth. Tapping one Cradle and sacking it to bring out another one is beautiful, but there is some negergy with using Skullclamp a lot and trying to make mana off your creatures in play. Academy may actually be better.
5. I hold, as I have held since I started the first thread, that 3 Skullclamps is the right number. 4 is just too many in a list that sees this much of the deck in a game. 90% of the time you don't miss the second one you don't have and you never want 3. Better to cut it for another Diabolic Intent that gets you Yawgmoth's Will than to Clamp (at most) maybe 2 Ornithopters and to get 4 cards closer to Will (or Tendrils, or whatever you need win at that moment).
I basically compare this deck more to Meandeck Tendrils than I do to TPS. It is a combo deck that sacrifices stability to go off a bit faster, similar to Belcher and Draw7 before it. The thing about this deck is that it is not as unstable as those others. Several have mentioned that burning Glimpse on turn 1 to drop a couple of dudes and set up a big turn 2 can be a great play--this implicitly shows that the loss of a single Glimpse does not lose the game, indicating a slightly smaller vulnerability to Force of Will than some naysayers have insinuated. I see combo decks on a sort of set of two continuums, from slow to fast and from stable to fragile. Generally, a deck rates high on one and low on the other (some are fast and stable, like Long or 4-Academy, but they don't last long). TPS would be this first extreme and Meandeck Tendrils would be the other. I see Kobolds as ranking higher on the stability line than its speed would generally suggest. That is what this deck has going for it over other combos. I think that with more work we can make it one of the best combos available, especially with its archnemesis Trinisphere out of the picture.
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Beta-Male
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« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2005, 01:13:39 pm » |
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its really really odd, but the more i play with the Alabama Kobold list, the more it feels like it really wants to be Meandeck Tendrils or even TPS.
for reference here's the list:
4 Crookshank Kobolds 4 Crimson Kobolds 4 Kobold's of Kher Keep 4 Ornithopter 4 Skullclamp 4 Glimpse of Nature 1 Demonic Tutor 3 Diabolic Intent 3 No Rest for the Wicked 2 Tendrils of Agony 4 Dark Ritual 3 Culling the Weak 5 Moxen 1 Black Lotus 1 Lotus Petal 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mana Vault 1 Sol Ring 4 Elvish Spirit Guide 4 Gemstone Mine 2 Undiscovered Paradise
i'm not entirely convinced that the list above is even close to optimal. in fact, i'd probably throw it somwhere near the 30-40% close pile. it just has too many hands where it doesn't do anything. i've all but given up on it, but do with it what you will.
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