[Deck] Glimpse/Clamp-Kobold

[apoc7k]

Alrighty... since I'm from north dakota, and I play this deck a lot (especially recently), I decided I would show my list and let you guys look.

// Lands
    4  Gemstone Mine

// Creatures
    4  Crookshank Kobolds
    4  Kobolds of Kher Keep
    4  Crimson Kobolds
    4  Myr Moonvessel
    4  Ornithopter

// Spells
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Sol Ring
    4  Dark Ritual
    4  Skullclamp
    1  Chrome Mox
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    4  Tendrils of Agony
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    1  Enlightened Tutor
    1  Mox Emerald
    3  Glimpse of Nature
    1  Channel
    2  No Rest for the Wicked
    4  Phyrexian Altar

// Sideboard
SB: 2  No Rest for the Wicked
SB: 4  Oxidize
SB: 4  Duress
SB: 3  Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2  Bind

The SB has been subject to change for a while now... but thet MD is fairly good. It goldfishes quite well. You may ask why I only run 3 glimpses, and its simply because I only felt like running 3 (and it seems to run smoother for some reason... donno why). Anyways, No Rest for the Wicked is like the kobold tech of the gods. It, along with clamp is incredible.

You might also comment on my using channel. It hasn't failed me yet... if anything it'll bait a counter.

The biggest problem here is no protection/hate of any sort MD. I guess the MD really tries to nail them quick, and hard.

Anyways, feel free to bash or praise all you like... thanks...

[Rastadon]

Apoc7k: When goldfishing and holding a Myr Moonvessel in hand, ask yourself "Is it possible for me to play this with green mana?" If yes, then Tinder Wall gets the nod. Except for the fact that it is green, it's superior in every way concievable. For G you can get RR, or for 1G you can get 2 cards + RR (With Skullclamp). In most cases when you sac it, it pays for itself or acts as a mana accelerant. With Myr Moonvessel you have to pay 2 (Skullclamp activation) to get 1 colorless and 2 cards.

Although it is a bit risky, have you tried swapping Vampiric Tutor with Demonic Consultation? When going off Vamp does nothing, but DC can get the card you need in a pinch.

Is 4 Tendrils actually needed? My build runs 2x but runs Diabolic Intent, it works out good.

[epeeguy]

Is 4 Tendrils actually needed? My build runs 2x but runs Diabolic Intent, it works out good.

I think that 2-3 Tendrils is ideal; running 4 is simply too many, given access to tutors in order to get the Tendrils you need to kill with.  Plus, with 3, you can potentially draw into one of the Tendrils while you are using Skullclamp or other means.

[Rastadon]

I'm actually thinking of only having 1 or 2 tutors b/c when going off I usually have enough steam to draw into one.

Apoc7k: How does Phyrexian Altar work for you? It's a bit costly, but is it worth it?

I'd highly reccomend that everyone swap one Dark Ritual for a Songs of the Damned. When going off you can tutor for that one copy and add 7 mana while not affecting your early game draws.

[apoc7k]

I see... gotcha!

With the Phyrexian Altar, I've been looking for a suitable replacement. Far too many times will it sit in my hand, dead, wishing it were something useful. Also, the Tinder wall is a great idea, but at the same time, for 1 green mana more I can drop a channel, which usually seals the game for me (very persuasive with the clamp).

Songs of the Damned is a great idea as far as it goes. Adding 1 in MD is definately a to-do.

My biggest question is what should I run as far as a SB for one of those "anything you could expect" types of metas? I usually just play on MWS because the meta in the middle of north dakota is about as bad as gun sales in a church (basically I'm saying it's non-existant... its THAT casual). As far as the tendrils go, that was just a number where I could imprint one on a chrome mox if i wanted, or whatever. Basically it's purpose was along the lines of "If I find one, even if it's not lethal, maybe I'll just cast it anyways... (followed by 1-3 more)" and in that respect it's done fine.

What I may do is drop 1, take out the altars, swap a dark rit for a songs of the damned, sway Gemstone mines for Bayous, see about doing a few land grants, and from there I will add and remove as I deem necessary.

I truly am amazed with how well this deck plays however. Last night, while I was just sitting around playing a random person, it had 3 first-turn kills, 1 second-turn kill, and 1 loss because I got bored and decked myself on purpose.

Anyways, shoot ideas away yall!

[Rastadon]

See, because I'm stuck in a rogue metagame I don't know much about tourney sb's and stuff. Most of the time I'll combo out before they can play their hate. Nevertheless, I'll do my best.

Xantid Swarm is insurance against some random counterspells and the like. Tormod's crypts never hurt. I'm not sure how the do in a crapass matchup, but hey, it's free.

If you go back to gemstones, Mox Monkey could help vs Chalice. A chalice for 0 is usually what they do here. Multani's Prescence also help here.

Cabal Therapy seems like such a backbreaker card in this deck. If you can't fit it in to the deck, I highly suggest sideboarding it.

What's the metagame like over there? Does it actually pose a hinderance or are you more or less goldfishing when you play them? If it does pose a threat, do tell what kind of threats.

I have no idea what to do vs Trinisphere. Sure its restricted, but people here compensate for that with a load of tutoring. Oxidize doesn't do much, and it's out of Mox Monkey range.

Just a seperate thought. Could Krosan Wayfarer be included to drop Academies/Cradles when going off?

[apoc7k]

The meta is basically like this... things that resemble type 2, about 2 people that actually have power, a few old school types of players that arent bad... needless to say, i just got sick of it and don't play here. I haven't actually shuffled a deck in over a year, i've been doing all my ideas with MWS. In due time I will arrange my own tournaments and try to spark up some kind of a 'good' metagame.

About the Mox Monkeys, I don't think I should change up the colors at all (by adding one) so I think that this will be decent. Cabal therapy would be a cool choice. Since chalice DOES kill this deck, I run oxidize in the SB. I know it may not be nearly as intimidating as the monkey, but at the same time, I dont think they are going to get multiple chalices out... especially not for 0 (just seems redundant to drop multiples for 0... then again, redundancy is good).

Anyways... just a few things... adios!

[Rastadon]

Chalice for 0 can be gotten around with Glimpses and can be Oxidized away. However a chalice for 1 shuts down A TON. Naturalize may take Oxidize's spot, as it can also take out an Oath, Dance of the Dead/Animate Dead, or any other dangerous artifact/enchantment.

How do land grants work for you? I've done some testing with them, and they haven't been doing much for me. When going off getting 2 land grants off a skullclamp isn't exactly ideal. It's nice not to avoid a land drop, but I'd rather have fastbond when going off. If you've had better luck with Land Grant, please let me know.

edit: I'm dissapointed many times with what I draw, what do you think about including Sensei's Diving Top in the deck? With all the mana that you get between the Rituals and Cullings, playing it, looking, bouncing and replaying shouldn't be aproblem.

[epeeguy]

edit: I'm dissapointed many times with what I draw, what do you think about including Sensei's Diving Top in the deck? With all the mana that you get between the Rituals and Cullings, playing it, looking, bouncing and replaying shouldn't be aproblem.

Yes, but then the question is how do you pay for Tendrils if you are using the mana to look at and reorder your top 3 cards?  Between building up a Storm count and then having {B} in order to end the game with Tendrils, there isn't a whole lot of spare mana in the deck in order to play around with Divining Top.  Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the Top (I'd actually like to test the Top/Helm interaction as an alternate win condition), but I'm not sure that it really has a place in the deck.  I agree, sometimes you can get on a run where your next several draws off Skullclamp or Glimpse where it just stinks.  But, I'm not entirely convinced this is the answer for that problem.

But, test it out, see if it works, and get back to us on it.

[Rastadon]

I'm trying to include some Divining Tops, but I have no idea what to take out, everything's so crucial here.

Can you also help me with a 5 proxy tourney? What should I proxy, what should I swap for those cards?

Mana Base
2 Forest
2 Swamp
4 ESG
4 Bayou
1 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox

Mana Acceleration/Fixers
3 Dark Ritual
4 Culling the Week
1 Songs of the Damned
1 Sol Ring
3 Land Grant

Clamp Food
4 Ornithopter
4 Walker
12 Kobolds

Engines
4 Glimpse
4 Skullclamp

Tutors
3 Diabolic Intent
1 Demonic Tutor

Restricted Goodness:
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Kill:
2 Tendrils of Aaaaarg

Some issues I've been having problems with:

Its consistancy: When going off it will crap out because I can't find that free black mana source to pay for the 2x Dark Rituals/Cullings I have in my hand. Lotus Petal has helped ENORMOUSLY, so much that if you Extracted it deck would have problems. Chrome Mox doesn't get the same recognition because every card in this deck is important. I like the idea of Fastbond/Mox Diamond but I dont' know what to take out. ESG I think is the card to name here.

Its lack of disruption: It has no disruption. At all. Cabal Therapy looks like a bomb for this deck, but I don't know what to take out.

Its inability to find an engine: You have to mulligan your ass off here, because if you don't get an engine or an easily playable tutor, you're dead. I'd like to know what to add here.

Other thoughts:
A W/G Kobold Clamp would be sick with Glimpse + Scapegoat, but it would lack the accelleration of B/G and I can't think of a good green/white kill. Hunting Pack is eccch.

Thanks.

[Whatever Works]

I played against a very weird version of glimpse kobolds today on MWS that was very interesting... It was ran by some guy who had 4 maindeck CoTV in his kobold deck. This might seem to make absolutely no sense until i found out that he ran 4 multani's presence. This weird combo in play basically cycles kobolds for free... and has a skullclamp affect with presenses out (accept no mana required)... The deck then proceeded to get an extremely large ammount of mana with 4 maindecked songs of the damned. It was very weird but also extremely fast, and it appeared to be much more resilant to CoTV for 0, and sinse it ran CoTV itself it did much better vs. other combo. Though CoTV for 1 would appear to be fairly game over but that appears to be the case for all versions I have seen. I dont play this type of combo deck, but it was an original idea that I saw being played and I thought it was unique and clever and should at least put out there as at least a possible option, metagame choice, or maybe a sideboard idea.

[Tristal]

Sounds like a good way to kill yourself when your Presence gets countered/explosived/removed.

[Imsomniac101]

When Trinisphere got the axe, some people were rejoicing now that they could play combo; some people started whining because they were afraid of combo summer.
Post restriction and now Kobolds is in the same position as it was Pre-Restriction. Aggro-Control is on the rise as predicted and its becoming more of a difficult match-up for Kobolds and most other Storm combo decks.

Now comes the question. How do you beat Aggro-Control? What cards do you have in your board to deal with this?

[Rustafari]

I thought I would post up this decklist. I haven't done anything except goldfish with it, so whatever. The last couple of decklists I have seen forget the nature of the deck, combo out and win as soon as possible. This is best done by having more powerful card drawing spells and a mana base that works with the card drawing. My deck uses the Belcher protocol for mana with some exceptions. I have found this to really make the deck a lot stronger and faster. Anyway, here it is:
Deck:     KoboldClamp
        1 Demonic Tutor
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
        1 Vampiric Tutor
        4 Ornithopter
        4 Crimson Kobolds
        4 Crookshank Kobolds
        4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
        1 Timetwister
        1 Crop Rotation
        2 Opt
        1 Time Walk
        1 Ancestral Recall
        4 Glimpse of Nature
        4 Skullclamp
        1 Brain Freeze
        1 Channel
        4 Chromatic Sphere
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Mana Vault
        1 Tolarian Academy
        1 Mana Crypt
        1 Tropical Island
        1 Bayou
        4 Land Grant
        1 Lotus Petal
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Emerald
        4 Elvish Spirit Guide
The most questionable slots are the Opts and Crop rotation. I haven't seen anything to take their places yet. Obviously the sideboard is missing. It would contain Xantid swarms and oxidizes for hate, and other stuff dependant on your meta. I haven't worried about it as much because if the maindeck isn't working, sideboards are useless anyway. Peace

[epeeguy]

The most questionable slots are the Opts and Crop rotation. I haven't seen anything to take their places yet. Obviously the sideboard is missing. It would contain Xantid swarms and oxidizes for hate, and other stuff dependant on your meta. I haven't worried about it as much because if the maindeck isn't working, sideboards are useless anyway. Peace

I wouldn't say those are your only questionable slots.  You've only one kill condition in the deck, and that's the single copy of Brain Freeze.  In fact, with as little black as you are running (only the Tutors and Will), I wouldn't even both with black at all; I would probably replace those with Brainstorms, which might augment the Opts.  I'd also use consider using Mystical Tutor or some other way to get at your Brain Freeze, as well as possible running more of them.  Or, run some other kill condition in addition to the Brain Freeze.  Otherwise, I'm not sure that your build would survive that much disruption; which is an important consideration.

[Rastadon]

Uh, not to be selfish or nothing, but I'd appreciate it if you commented on my deck before you wrote yours up. A big problem on forums like these is that there can be too many people all wanting help, and new decklists are posted too quickly to be analyzed sufficiently. So please, give me some feedback here.

A big problem with my deck is that there's no disruption. Cabal Therapy is absoutely sick in this deck. For B and a creature (Both of these costs are easily payable) you can easily discard anywhere from 2 to 3 cards while still saccing a Skullclamped Walker. This is one of the key gems Kobold Clamp has to offer that TPS can't. What should I take out of my decklist to include for these ass kickers?

[Imsomniac101]

@Rastadon:
you said it yourself, it does seem selfish. but I will try and answer your questions. take out Songs, some copies of Culling and some creatures; then add :

Ritual
Lotus
LED
Mana Crypt
Consultation

I will try and answer a lot of these questions in my article. But I just got back to school and catching up is hell.

[Rastadon]

The Consultation works great, thanks. But Culling is a bomb for this deck, I refuse to take it out. Disruption is a HUGE problem, what do you suggest to take out for Cabal Therapy?

[epeeguy]

The Consultation works great, thanks. But Culling is a bomb for this deck, I refuse to take it out. Disruption is a HUGE problem, what do you suggest to take out for Cabal Therapy?

Seriously, you don't need it.  With the 3 Dark Rituals you already have (which really should be 4), you should not have a problem getting to the requisite mana and storm count to play out Tendrils.  I'm not sure why you are insisting on have 7 sources of {B}{B}, but it's really not that necessary.  In fact, I think it's the insistence on the Cullings that's causing you to miss the bigger picture, which is ensuring that you can survive to combo out.  All Culling does is enable your mana to support Tendrils, as well as add to your storm count; which Dark Ritual already does well enough.  If you need a way to disrupt your opponent, so that you can combo out, then you have to give up something that's repetitive.  Which is what Culling is; repetitive.

Otherwise, you'll simply have to rely on your opponent not being able to disrupt you, and only focus on your combo.

[Imsomniac101]

@Rastadon:

Cut all but 2x Cullings and your deck should be fine. 2x Cullings give you just enough extra copies of Dark Rituals, but not so many that you have to clog your deck up with unneccessary creatures in order to support Culling and Diabolic Intent.

On a side note:
writing this article is gonna take ages. I had more work to catch up on than I thought. Probably gonna have to post pone the article for a while.

[epeeguy]

@Rastadon: Apologies for not seeing this sooner, but I couldn't help notice the distinct lack of Power cards from your deck.  Please note that this thread (as I outlined when I originally started it) is not for budget versions of Kobold/Clamp-Glimpse, but is for fully powered (or at least as much as is necessary) decks.  So, I'll have to ask that you update your list to include things like Mox Jet, Black Lotus or even dual lands, or else you post your thoughts in the budget deck version that is in the Vintage Newbie Forum.

[magus888]

I know this is a very old discusion, but I was just wondering what the optimal number of duress/therapy is.
What makes therapy so much better than duress? I would think knowing what you were pulling from opponent's hand would be more affective than making an educational guess.

[twault]

I have recently been experimenting with some different card choices for this deck, and it may warrant some discussion.

I'm not going to post my decklist, because it is suboptimal (I have NO power).

Has anyone thought about Academy Rector in KoboldClamp?

I don't know what you'd take out to replace Rector in your lists, but there is some great synergy between Rector, Cabal Therapy, Culling the Weak, and Diabolic Intent....some builds are already running these cards without the Rector.

Getting the Rector out seems to be the biggest challenge, but a deck with power could do that on turn 1. Once the Rector is in play, I use Cabal Therapy or Culling the Weak to sac the Rector and put Bargain into play.

Once Bargain is in play, the possibilities are endless. Bargain for 10-15 cards, drop kobolds, build storm count, clamp kobolds, draw more cards & play more spells, build storm count, then play Tendrils.

Plus, once you've reached your Tendrills count, you can play Therapy(s) before going off and use it's flashback from kobolds still on the board to eliminate opponent's threats.

Hey, it's just an idea for all you folks with power to try and see what you think. My deck usually goldfishes a turn 3 win without power....not that goldfishing means anything....just try it out and see what you think. If it works for you, please post your decklist with results.

It could turn into one of those "why don't you just play Rector-Tendrils instead" things, but it's really fun dropping 3 kobolds for 0 mana that go towards the storm count.

[andrewpate]

@magus888
Cabal Therapy is better than Duress for several reasons.  First, it can hit more than one card at a time if you guess well (and with practice you can get very good at it).  Second, the flashback is relatively painless for this deck and so it basically works twice (and keep in mind that the second time is much more powerful because you have already seen the hand).  Last, actually being able to hand-pick the card usually does not matter because you are mostly using discard to neutralize countermagic.  When I get ready to play Glimpse of Nature, I have to be certain that it is going to resolve because a countered Glimpse is a big deal.  For this reason, Therapy is excellent since naming Force of Will can get rid of even 2 Forces (which Duress cannot) and reveal whether any other countermagic is available to my opponent.  If I Duress and see a Force, a blue card, and a hot Mana Leak, I'm in big trouble.

@twault
You have hit the nail on the head yourself by asking why you don't just play Rector Tendrils.  If the fun of using Kobolds instead of normal combo pieces is just too much to resist, then fine, but I guarantee that you will be creating what essentially amounts to a less consistent version of a deck that already isn't good enough.

[Prometheon]

Has anoyone thought of using Tangleroot or Carnival of Souls in this deck? With all the little creatures you are pumping out, these cards basically let your clamp work on "auto."

Also, I was using a Songs of the Damned and Infernal Contract Mana/Draw engine a while ago and it was pretty decent. Between Songs and Ritual, you have an abundance of B mana, and Contract is the perfect sink for these, netting you 4 cards for 3 mana.

[b-tings]

In any form without disruption, this deck is strictly inferior to Meandeck Tendrils. It rolls to more hate, and it's got a slower goldfish.

So I put it to you avid Clampers: what makes this deck, in any of its forms, superior to Meandeck Tendrils?

[epeeguy]

So I put it to you avid Clampers: what makes this deck, in any of its forms, superior to Meandeck Tendrils?

Simple, it's not.

It's simply a different kind of Storm deck that operates in a different way.  In other respects, it is more fun to play (there's an odd kind of "pleasure" in using cheap creatures and abusing Skullclamp/Glimpse of Nature).  And it's not a horrible deck either; it's just not quite as powerful as some of the other ones that are out there.

It's really the kind of deck that appeals to a "different" kind of player.

[Oaktree]

Actually I have found that Xantid swarm works really well in this deck as protection against disruption.they trigger gimps of nature and can be clamped.

Tinder wall has worked like a charm, it produces mana and works with your draw-spells.

I am not sure of the correct ratio of walls/swarms. The walls are great for scullclamping away, and make the deck more consistent goldfish-wise, but the swarms are the only thing aside from the speed (useless against FoW of course) that will give you a chance against an active opponent.  I am unable to find room for all 8 creatures beyond the kobolds. (Although at least 4 extra seems to be necessary)

I tried playing with duress, and duress was inadequate. The lack of synergy with the plan of gimpsing and clamping makes the swarm much better than the sorceries. Also, if you do go off , the duresses/therapies are dead draws, whereas the swarms will somewhat fuel the combo.

I play with power and dark rituals for acceleration, I haven't tried culling the weak, and I don't think it would be a good idea; having a draw-spell like gimps or clamp in your opening hand is extremely important along with a creature to trigger it, and there really isn't enough space for that many mana-only cards. In addition, the cost of sacrificing a creature is harder on the list I use because i only have walls that don't die to being clamped once.

Some of you want to add more blue, but the important cards are black, like YawgWin, tutors, bargain and rituals, finding the mana for tendrils is really important, while making the storm count is actually a piece of cake.  I have actually kept blue so I can keep Ancestral, but Ii am considering adding the 4th Xantid.

[NWI Team_Zilla]

So I put it to you avid Clampers: what makes this deck, in any of its forms, superior to Meandeck Tendrils?

Simple, it's not.

.....Classic, props to eppeguy

[Rastadon]

B-Tings: This deck is by far, no means better than Meandeck Tendrils. But this deck has an amazing ability of turning crap cards into great cards, and turning great cards into monstrosities. Just take a look at Cabal Therapy. For 1 black mana, you get a little less than a Duress, and then you get another activation for free, and you get to draw 2 more cards if you just pay 1 colorless. A single Cabal Therapy can act as a Mind Twist under these conditions.

And that's just one example. We can use tutoring that Meandeck Tendrils can't even touch along the lines of Diabolic Intent. The cardpool available to this deck is neverending, which gives us far more flexibility in terms of kill and disruption.

While Kobold Klamp isn't a titan like Meandeck Tendrils is, iit's also just a whole lotta fun to play. It's just so damn fun doing crap that you're not even sure will win you the game, or do anything, and just pulling off last minute Wills for a storm count of 23. It's beautiful.

To the posters: CABAL FREAKIN' THERAPY! You can clamp your ornithopters without having a single mana to spare while still kicking the crap out of your opponents hand, PLUS it's 2 spells to your spell count. This deck I believe can't survive without it, it's that crucial. If your results are different than mine, I'll be damned, but I'll stand behind Cabal Therapy all the way.