Nuke the format or not?

[Moxlotus]

This poll may get a better feeling of the community than the other one.  I'm curious as to how many people want to do each of these options.

I voted for 0 cards because, to me, the format is more diverse and interesting than ever before.  The decks are so broken and exciting I look forward to every match.  Type 1 is incredibly fun right now and I wouldn't change a thing.

[Matt]

Throw the whole format to the wolves, sez I. If it lives it'll be stronger, if not, I don't care.

[Bram]

That's not a very nice thing to say. It's easy to sound all tough like that while taking chances with stuff you don't really care about anyway. It's like gambling other people's money or something.

Restrict nothing. Unrestrict nothing. That's my advice, and my bet.

[Triple_S]

I say hit Welder, 3Sphere, Ritual, and ESG then let the dust settle.

[Whatever Works]

Doesnt there have to be something wrong with the format to nuke it???

And concerning welder... I have trouble considering the restriction of welder considering that it is a 1/1, and can be dealt with easily by every color, and it has summoning sickness... Sure its broken, but why destroy half the decks in the format if they arent dominating...

[Razvan]

I don't understand how people come up with some of those cards they put on the list... ESG? What in the name of holy hell?

Trading a card for one mana is too broken? It cannot be replayed like the Lotus Petal, and it doesn't fuel Academy...

If you remove workshop, workshop decks can still function without it, because of Ancient Tomb? Is this what we base restrictions on? The fact that decks can still function?

I think it was Jacob who said that there shouldn't be restriction threads anymore because it only causes meaningless discussion. Heh...

On a side-note, I agree with Bram!

[Kowal]

Ritual is stupid in multiples because it creates situations far too often where the skill of both players is irrelevant.

Trinisphere does the same.

People suggesting ESG are merely trying to make sure Belcher dies too, since 90% of your games are knowing how to count to seven before your opponent gets to play anything relevant.

I'm also in favor of hitting Welder, but that's a different matter altogether.

[Phantom Tape Worm]

If this is simply a poll thread, I'll just voice my opinion rather than explain in detail why I think this way.  

I am in favor of hitting ritual and 3sphere more than anything else.  Both of these cards contribute to problematic decks, ie. decks whos strategies rely on winning/effectively winning before interactivity occurs.

Eliminating interactivity altogether should not be a reliable deck strategy.

I wouldn't mind seeing more than just those cards go of course, as I like to see a dynamic format in flux with a plethora of new ideas being played.

[M]

T1 is at a point where some of the one-of's (Lotus, Y.Will, Tinker, Academy, Strip Mine) have become more problematic (in terms of randomness) than any of the four-of's, with the possible exception of Workshop. This means that fixing the format by simply restricting more cards might no longer be possible.

How about raising the minimum deck size to 80 cards?

[Mixing Mike]

The format is fine right now.  Yeah sure, I don't personally like Trinisphere and Dark Ritual, but really, the meta just needs to adjust.  So many people are playing Control Slaver, and only one deck can win that mirror match.  I think this is the most likley reason why we have so many CS decks winning in New England.

[Matt]

That's not a very nice thing to say. It's easy to sound all tough like that while taking chances with stuff you don't really care about anyway. It's like gambling other people's money or something.

Restrict nothing. Unrestrict nothing. That's my advice, and my bet.

Says the guy who tried to have my Legacy forum killed in utero!

[ChaosTheory]

I vote no restrictions.
The metagame is truly diverse now, and, IMO, it should be left that way until something is actually dominating the format.

[Kowal]

Metagame diversity isn't as important as providing opportunities for good players to bring their skill to bear.

[Ender]

I say nuking the format for "entertainment" purposes is a stupid way of thinking. Even though I personally don't like Control Slaver seemingly to top 8ing every event, I believe the format is quite healthy. I would really like wizards to think of some really good cards and force us to make new decks built around it.

[giddygorgon]

All of these cards which win the game before I have a chance to do something have really made the game less enjoyable for me.  I used to love it, but over time seeing the same first turn play over and over again is really bugging me.  In this format you have 3 options:
1. Drop 3sphere first turn
2. Win on the first turn
3. Have FOW

It really makes the game less fun.
I say NUKE ZE FORMAT!

[TrixR4Kidz]

Ritual is stupid in multiples because it creates situations far too often where the skill of both players is irrelevant.

Trinisphere does the same.

People suggesting ESG are merely trying to make sure Belcher dies too, since 90% of your games are knowing how to count to seven before your opponent gets to play anything relevant.

I'm also in favor of hitting Welder, but that's a different matter altogether.

I am not understanding how people are calling out for dark ritual to get restricted, the fact of the matter is, decks with ritual are not consistantly winning tournaments, even with 4 rituals, if you take that away, then it will absolutely KILL the majority of combo and turn the format into a "I play control" format.  

The same goes for trinisphere, while the numbers are higher then that of dark ritual, the decks aren't consistantly taking tournaments, and if a card is looking for restriction, you should be looking at decks that are always winning.  I don't think you can take away trinisphere, the main reason workshop stands a chance in the format and be happy with it, not to mention your for the restriction of welder, by the sounds of it, you want the majority of type one to be control.

Saying elvish spirit guide should get restricted is also silly, i'm not seeing where this is comming from, if it's "to kill belcher too" then you might want to realize how many cards beat belcher... Nullrod, damping matrix, force of will, mana drain, duress... etc

However, the card that i'm looking at is intuition, which I believe to be the most powerful unrestricted card out there.  Turn one welder turn 2 intution does indeed require no skill, and you probably just won the game by doing that.  I pray this card gets it, I voted to restrict one card

[Smmenen]

Metagame diversity isn't as important as providing opportunities for good players to bring their skill to bear.

Who says they are mutually exclusive?

[Kowal]

I'd like to introduce you to Trinisphere and Dark Ritual.

[Smmenen]

Dark Ritual requires alot more skill than Drain to use properly.  The margins aren't even close.  I've top8ed with Drain decks more than anything else, and I can tell you that Ritual is alot harder to play properly.

With Drain decks, you just need experience and to understand your role.  The biggest mistake people make with Drain decks is misunderstanding their role, miscuing, and not thinking forward far enough.  This is all acquirable with skill.  With Ritual decks, you need alot of experience but also have to think through a ridiciulous number of situations and skill.  I consider myself one of the better combo players in the format and I basically can't play Meandeath or Dday flawlessly, and I definately can't play Meandeck Tendrils optimally in tournament.  One of the greatest myths of the format is that Drain decks are that skill intensive.  Fish is as hard to play (if not harder properly) than most Drain decks.  And aggro-control is usually the most intuitive archetype to play.

[Royal Ass.]

AAhhh!!  Too... many restriction threads...brain-exploding!!

Seriously there are so many damn threads like this going on right now I can hardly keep up with them all.  Thats why everyone should just chill out and adopt my plan of restricting these three cards:
Trinisphere, Ritual, Welder and Intuition.  Shit- thats four.
Flame on!

[Bram]

Says the guy who tried to have my Legacy forum killed in utero!  

Um...oh yeah. Well, OK.....but that was Legacy, you know? It didn't even really exist back then. It would have been like abortion. Which is not murder. Or so the Dutch say, anyway.

Ahem.

OK, so it was hypocritical. I apologise

Maybe someone should whip up a Restriction Countdown site or something. '11 days, 7 hours, 32 minutes before Wizards of the Coast crushes your dreams and makes grown men cry.'

[Kasuras]

I'd say hit Trinisphere. The metagame won't be distorted that much (prison is still a very viable choice) but turn 1 Sphere of Resistance is by far not as retarded as turn 1 Trinisphere.

To conclude; my opinion is that the format shouldn't be nuked (it's fun now!) but just a slight change should be made.

[Das_Boot]

I think that Dark Ritual needs to be hit.  Someone said this in the other thread, but if combo gets hurt like this, Shop/Sphere decks lose one of their best matchups, and starts to decline, leaving slower decks like FCG, etc. to have a chance.  I wouldn't mind if Trinisphere got hit too, as Trinisphere being taken out also hurts Trinisphere decks, surprise surprise.  

I also want to elaborate about the positives I hope this will have.  After these restrictions, Control Slaver will be the one left standing, the top dog.  However, this deck is inherently less random and easier to metagame against than Trinisphere and Dark Ritual.  While Control Slaver still gives you time to react, play well, and carry out your game plan, Trinisphere, and, to a lesser extent, Dark Ritual go Trinisphere or Land, Mox, Ritual first turn and make you irrelevant.  It is harder to take down a deck that has either won or make it so you can't play.  With Control Slaver at the top alone immediately post-restriction, decks that have a fundamental turn of much higher than Trinisphere or Dark Ritual come into play.

I think on March 1, it isn't a question of format healthiness in terms of domination and deck diversity.  I think the issue here is the skill, fun, and non-randomness factors that are the issue.  I would also like to challenge the no restriction proponents:  Why is your position what it is?  I don't understand why the standard for restriction should be so high in an essentially non-PT format.  Why shouldn't we restrict these cards to make the format healthier in terms of gameplay rather than metagame?

[Stupid_Newb]

I used to be in favor of only the Sphere getting the axe.

But now, I'm really not so sure.

If you restrict the Sphere and not Ritual, combo will run rampant, destroying everything in its path. But lets face it - Restricting Ritual will kill off combo, with the lone exception of Dragon. Ritual can't get restricted, or you will take away an entire aspect of the metagame.

But, (this may sound noobish) restricting both will make for non-Workshop Aggro to do great. No Trinispheres to hold them back, no combo to bash their face in. In all honesty, if both Sphere and Ritual are restricted, look for Aggro to start doing better.

Intuition, it's close. The Intuition/AK draw engine honestly isn't THAT great. If you do the math, it's usually 3UU for 3 cards. Definately not so hot. But I do agree that turn one Welder, turn two Intuition is pretty broken. But then again, isn't that what Thirst of Knowledge does? I say it should stay.

Ritual stays.
Sphere stays.
Intuition stays.
Welder stays.

[Triple_S]

You are thinking of Intuition in the framework of only the AK plan.  It has applications that stretch far beyond just a draw engine, it can function as a Demonic Tutor if used properly.

[Vegeta2711]

If you restrict the Sphere and not Ritual, combo will run rampant, destroying everything in its path. But lets face it - Restricting Ritual will kill off combo, with the lone exception of Dragon. Ritual can't get restricted, or you will take away an entire aspect of the metagame.

This is so wrong. If you hit Ritual it only kills fast combo and probably only for a few months. TPS can get by fine with Cabal Ritual, so can Rector Trix and as you said Dragon isn't affected at all.