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Author Topic: Need advise on deck for SCG tourny  (Read 1947 times)
mr_rogers
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abct69
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« on: February 21, 2005, 12:07:49 am »

I've finally constructed my deck for the SCG tounament in Syracuse. I was wondering if anyone could help me make it better or even tell me if I'll stand a chance in the tounament.
  Here is the deck list with explanations to follow.

3x forest
3x island
2x wooded foothills
4x tropical island
4x wasteland
1x strip mine
2x polluted delta
1x sol ring
1x chrome mox
1x black lotus(p)
1x mox emerald(p)
1x mox sapphire(p)
4x wild mongrel
4x aquamoeba
4x basking rootwalla
2x arrogant wurm
2x wonder
4x FOW
4x brainstorm
4x circular logic
3x null rod
2x deep analysis
1x gush
1x ancestral recall(p)
1x time walk(p)

sideboard
3x energy flux
1x null rod
3x ground seal
3x stifle
3x beb
2x waterfront bouncer

 The (p)'s refer to the five proxies in the deck.

 The card choices for the deck are based on the metagame I expect to see at the tournament. Which will most likely be Controlslaver, oath, various combo decks and workshop. I put the null rods maindeck because CS and combo are both really hurt by them, stopping each deck if not taken care of.

 I'm not sure what else really needs explaining in the deck. I would like to know if there is a better budget build that anyone has had success with though. Also I am unsure wether to run bouncers maindeck for Oath or in the sideboard.
 Anyway I would appreciate any comments on the deck or any input on how this deck might actually comepete in a powered tounament.
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HuntedWumpus
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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2005, 01:01:32 am »

I have played the following list in mid size tourney's with some success when I need a break from the mainstream vintage decks. I believe madness will retain its value as a budget deck due to its quantity of threats on both the control and aggro side of the table.

4 Basking rootwalla
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Aquamoeba
4 Arrogant Wurm
2 Wonder
4 Force of Will
4 Circular Logic
1 Gush
2 Deep Analysis
4 Brainstorm
3 Null Rod
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

4 Tropical Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
3 Island
3 Forest
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire

One of the big issues I have with your build is the lack of the 4 arrogant wurms. Running only two of these cards means that you are not looking to see this card early or often, which is exactly the opposite of what you are looking for. One of Madness's strength's is the well rounded mana curve it possesses, granting it the ability to make a strong aggressive play turns 1-3 if the match dictates you the "beatdown" role.

Secondly your additions of chrome mox and sol ring are not necessary here. U/G is not acceleration hungary enough to warrant poor acceleration such as chrome mox, nor will it want to invest any early mana into sol ring. It is far better put to use on an aggressive play, or on  a brainstorm.

Sideboard:
3 Ground Seal
3 Back To Basics
4 Oxidize
3 Gilded Drake
2 Misdirection

I am from the opposite side of the country, and hence am not totally in tune with your east coast metagame. However judging from previous trends, and the data that I have from reports and such I would suggest a sideboard similar to the one reflected above. Ground Seal should be a big friend to you all day, looking at the number of welders around. I prefer it over BeB due to the cantrip effect, and the possibility for a devastating turn one play. Gilded Drake is fairly strong against oath, especially if it takes akroma. I added some misdirections to supplement the matches against a heavy control meta if you run that. They are probably the card to cut if you are looking to change the board. The rest should be fairly self explanatory.

The aggro-control archetype has much more to it than meets the eye. It can be one of the most skill intensive to pilot. Roll assignment (deciding if you need to play aggro or control for a specific match) is the single most important and probably largest play error for this deck. If you pilot it well I could see you having a fairly strong finish at the end of the day.

Good luck at the SCG.
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mr_rogers
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abct69
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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2005, 01:59:33 am »

Thanks for the advise I am going to replace the chrome mox and sol ring with two more wurms. I also am going to put oxidize in the sideboard instead of beb's. I don't own back to basics or guilded drake so I won't be able to use them, but the bouncers should be more than sufficient against Oath.
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Necrologia
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2005, 04:15:20 am »

Don't forget that this is a SCG tourney being hosted inside of an already large magic store. If you can't find B2Bs and Gilded Drakes there, you won't be able to find them anywhere. Assuming you get there relatively early you should have plenty of time to grab a few last minute cards from the dealers. Prices won't be cheap, but the option is there.
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mr_rogers
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abct69
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2005, 11:24:21 am »

I did forget I can probably buy them there. Thankyou.
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Freelancer
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2005, 12:35:27 pm »

I run a bit more controllish version with 3x wurm no null rods and 4x memory mask...memory masks have been working truly fantastic for me, a active mask is almost a game winner in itself (drawing into the countermagic/creatures to control/pressure the opponent)...I would suggest testing them out...Wink

Also drakes are quite horrible against oath consider this:
turn 2: they oath up a spirit of the night (you drop to 14)
your turn 3: you cast a drake and take spirit
turn 3: they oath again and get a akroma they swing with akroma and you drop to 8, at this point you can't win anymore...

Only if they oath up a akroma first AND didn't side in protection creatures is drake good against oath....

A much better sideboard card against oath: naturalize, annul...

Also energy flux isn't that great against various workshop.dec since they still have a choice wich artifact they want to keep. And if it is a 7/10 or a stack or a wire or you get the idea you have a big problem...Wink However oxidize/annul pick on there most dangerous artifacts...You don't really need to wreck random moxen etc...It's also vurnable to REB, wich comes up as well sometimes...
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mr_rogers
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abct69
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2005, 06:45:17 pm »

Thanks for the suggestions so far. I am going to still use bouncers over the drake against Oath for a couple reasons. One they are a madness outlet for the deck and two they are a permanant anwser to the oath creatures. Also I am going to try to fit in naturalize in the sideboard for the Oath match up.
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mr_rogers
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abct69
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« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2005, 02:52:27 am »

Well I've started to really worry about the CS match up with my madness deck. I'm unsure null rod is enough to deal with the CS deck but am not sure what else my deck has access to to deal with that match up. If there is anyone familar with playing against CS I would really appreciate some help with sideboard or even maindeck card choices for this match up.
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Nastaboi
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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2005, 09:36:40 am »

Well, in my testing CS always went Tinker for Platz, GG. Then I added maindeck Naturalize (SB Wonders) and started to bear up. You have to keep Welders in check, Seal and BEB will do that, and then you have to have some answer to Tinker. Oxidize will do also, but I prefer Naturalize as it splashes to Oath.
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HuntedWumpus
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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2005, 07:39:46 pm »

The most important part for your success against control slaver will be proper role assignment. DO NOT try to play control in this match up, your highest priority here is to apply pressure to their life total very quickly. Control slaver is a deck that prefers to take some time to set up. Concentrate your FoW's on forcing back critters that get countered; Null rod is also very important here. However they have ways to get it off the board so it will only buy you time if it resolves, but it should be sufficient enough to let you squeak in a kill. The sideboard I presented, in unison with your maindeck, should give you a very promising match against slaver. Ground seal, though it will not stop them from slaving, will stop the continuous slavery that they can get off welder. Personally I think its far superior to spot removal of the welder because . . .
1. It can be played when ever you get it.
2. It cantrips.
3. It's an enchantment, and hence is a little tough to remove.
Combine with Oxidize, and Gilded drake if you feel the need, you should have no serious problems if you take a fairly aggressive stance.
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mr_rogers
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abct69
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« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2005, 08:59:29 pm »

Okay based on the feedback I recieved I have my final list and sideboard for the deck.

4x Wild Mongrel
4x Basking Rootwalla
4x Aquamoeba
4x Arrogant Wurm
4x Force of Will
4x Circular Logic
4x Brainstorm
3x Null Rod
2x Deep Analysis
2x Naturalize
1x Gush
1x A. Recall
1x Time Walk
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Black Lotus
2x Polluted Delta
2x Wooded Foothills
4x Tropical Island
3x Forest
3x Island
2x Wasteland
2x Riftstone Portal
1x Strip Mine

Sideboard
3x Ground Seal
3x Stifle
2x Naturalize
2x Wonder
4x STP
1x Null Rod

 I added the Riftstones to use swords for many decks( Welder, Oath, Tog....). I decided to not run Energy Flux as the deck can handle various Workshop.decs with the seals and rods and Naturalizes. Well I hope to do well but still really worried about the CS matchup.
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HuntedWumpus
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« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2005, 09:37:34 pm »

Maindeck:

-2 Riftstone
+ 2 Wasteland

SB:
-4 Stp
+ 4 Control Magic

If you are worried about the creatures you said, control magic is really a much more elegant way of going about this. Yes it costs more, but you are going about producing white mana in such a way that the chances of you having it early are low.

On wasteland . . .
Just because people are playing basic land, doesn't mean that wasteland becomes a bad card. The fact that you are running wasteland may force the opponent to fetch out a basic, which could be very important if they turn out lacking colors later on. Just a note . . . in last tourney I went to, which I T8'ed in, I won 3 games solely due to wasteland. Do not underestimate this cards current value.
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mr_rogers
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abct69
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« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2005, 08:18:56 pm »

@ Hunted Wumpus: I took your advise and kept the wasteland count at 4 and ditched the STPs. I'm going to try Oxidize or Annul in the STP spot in the sideboard.  

  I've been testing the deck and it seems to do well against most of the field. The only matchup I haven't tested is the CS matchup because no one had the deck together, but I will be testing that Friday.
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doomhed
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« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2005, 09:17:18 pm »

Hallo. I am the guy who T16'd at waterbury 4 with madness.

here is how you answer paltinum angel- 4 maindeck Waterfront bouncer. it is godly against tog, slaver, 7/10, oath and other aggro decks. cut the maindeck wonders, the gush, and the sol ring for 4. other than that the deck looks good. put the wonders in the board for the FCG/Affinity matchups (any big tourny and you are garaunteed one scrub match), and a 4th null rod in the board. I also recommend Annuls in the sideboard for the trinistax/oath matchup.
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