[Deck] Ugb-OATH build: Decklist Inside

[Mox Sapphire]

Main Deck: (61 cards)

Engine
4 Oath of Druids
1 Gaea's Blessing
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Spirit of the Night

Counters & Disruption
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
3 Mana Leak
4 Duress
4 Mana Drain

Other Business
4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
2 Skeletal Scrying
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Impulse

Mana Sources
4 Forbidden Orchard
3 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Island
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Sol Ring
1 Library of Alexandria

Sideboard: (15 cards)
3 Ground Seal
1 Back to Basics
3 Naturalize
2 Arcane Laboratory
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pristine Angel
1 Iridescent Angel
1 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Energy Flux

After testing the current DOA, I decided that the build offered by JACO is a bit outdated. When I playtested the deck, I had a lot of problems trying to find the pieces of the combo, thus the inclusion of 4 impulse.

In addition, I have removed the second blessing from the engine for the following reason. Oath tends to have a lot of excessive cards that are absolutely useless when drawn at the wrong time: Skeletal scrying in opening hand (thus the cutting down to 2 counts), Akroma, Spirit, and Blessing. With all these dead cards, it is important to alleviate the count as much as possible. Getting a guaranteed shuffle is not as important as getting a card that you need.

Impulse works great with brainstorm, often putting your chaff all the way on the bottom of your deck so that you don't draw it again. If you have not drawn your blessing, and using impulse you uncover a creature, put the creature on the bottom of the deck to ensure that blessing will trigger within the next 1-2 oaths.

Another major change is the removal of all land hate. It is much more important to get the combo out rather than destroying non-basics and the like. Blue mana sources are important, thus the inclusion of 2 extra underground sea and 1 island. If anyone discovers something interesting after playtesting my new build, please share your thoughts. Despite the current slaver-heavy metagame, I am a firm believer that Oath is a solid deck, and can beat slaver when properly designed. Please help me on my quest to develop the perfect Oath.

[AnFgangsta]

The problem I have with this decklist is the use of Skeletal Scrying.  It may be alright in the shortrun, but when you run into longer matches, you are going to quickly run out of your dumped fetchlands to use, and starting to use your counters/draws would end up being detrimental to the deck, you are going to want those to cycle back into the deck. Thus I ask why 2x blessings are not being played, that allows for easier cycling of the deck in long games.

One small note, Ive noticed that aggro, or quasi-aggro decks have begun to use Waterfront Bouncer, and this can become a problem for the oath player, so maybe bring back into maindeck, or atleast sideboard the old Capsize, or maybe 1/2 boomerangs as they may prove to be crucial.

[JACO]

I would appreciate if you wouldn't call this DOA Oath, because aside from Duress, it's not really like our deck at all. (Topic title fixed. -J) It's just a bad version of Oath. I'd prefer if you don't associate ours with your 'updated' build that includes suboptimal cards. Usually when people 'update' a deck, they make it better, which is clearly not the case here. Please do not EVER play with more than 60 cards in your deck, no matter what convincing argument you or your friends can come up with. Playing 61 cards is a sign of poor deck construction.

First of all, before I give you any advice, here's the original version of the deck we presented to the public:

DOA, by BHWC
Engine (8)
4 Oath of Druids
2 Gaea's Blessing
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Spirit of the Night

Counters & Disruption (16)
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
2 Daze
4 Duress
4 Mana Drain

Other Business (12)
4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
3 Skeletal Scrying
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Cunning Wish

Mana Sources (24)
4 Forbidden Orchard
3 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
1 Library of Alexandria

Not playing Impulse is a conscious decision we made, because if you learn to mulligan properly and know how matchups play out, it is totally unneccessary. It was tested, and cut, because it adds too little to the deck. I would much rather play Cunning Wish, which is like a tutor for your sideboard cards that help deal with problematic permanents in an emergency situation. Impulse costs you tempo, and you should be winning rather than wasting time and tempo to cast Impulse. Mana Leak also falls into this category, because if you're holding back to cast Mana Leak, you're not being aggressive enough with the deck. This is part of the reason the deck was built to abuse Duress, rather than playing Mana Leak like the MeanDeck build. This is the reason Pernicious Deed isn't played. The only reason Cunning Wish is even present is to deal with random jank or hate cards in an emergency, so you don't lose to things like Platinum Angel or Meddling Mage. Think of it as aggro-combo-control. Manage your resources enough to get an early Oath of Druids out on the table and beat down for 2-3 turns and win. Do not play it as a typical control deck.

The problem I have with this decklist is the use of Skeletal Scrying. It may be alright in the shortrun, but when you run into longer matches, you are going to quickly run out of your dumped fetchlands to use, and starting to use your counters/draws would end up being detrimental to the deck, you are going to want those to cycle back into the deck.

Honestly, if you've played the deck for any period of time, you should LOVE Skeletal Scrying. It draws more cards than Intuition-AK, takes up less slots in the deck, and the life loss is negligible. Even in the event that your matches run long (which they shouldn't), removing a few of your stronger cards is always worth it if you have the opportunity to refill your hand and gain control of the game by casting a single spell (Scrying).

Another major change is the removal of all land hate. It is much more important to get the combo out rather than destroying non-basics and the like.

Another major reason why your decklist is untuned is the lack of Wastelands. The reason Wastelands are included to begin with is to deal with opposing Forbidden Orchards and Mishra's Workshops. You will never beat an Oath mirror without Wastelands. This is what helps make DOA superior to MeanDeck Oath. If you don't have a plan to establish Orchard superiority, then you might as well concede that matchup.

If I was to take an updated version of DOA to a tournament tomorrow, it would look more like this:

DOA 1.3, by BHWC
Engine (8)
4 Oath of Druids
2 Gaea's Blessing
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Spirit of the Night

Counters & Disruption (15)
4 Force of Will
3 Misdirection
4 Duress
4 Mana Drain

Other Business (12)
4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
3 Skeletal Scrying
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Cunning Wish

Mana Sources (25)
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
1 Library of Alexandria

Sideboard (whatever 15 of the following cards you think will be best for what you expect)
1 Pristine Angel
1 Platinum Angel
1 Ancient Hydra (if you expect a good amount of Welders)
3 Arcane Laboratory
***Cunning Wishable***
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Rack and Ruin
1 Coffin Purge
1 Stifle
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Crop Rotation
1 Echoing Truth
1 Fact or Fiction/Skeletal Scrying
1 Naturalize
1 Snuff Out
1 Fire/Ice (or Lava Dart if you are going to play 1 Volcanic main)

Daze is the weakest card in the original version of the deck, so I often swap those 2 cards out for other cards, depending on what I expect at a given tourney. If you expect a control heavy environment, the Dazes are great, as they help you win the early critical counters wars, without the loss of much card advantage. I expected a lot of Oath mirrors when I built the deck, and the Dazes help force through your game plan. If you expect a lot of something in your field, put something else in the deck (even Naturalize has been pretty strong). Those are your two 'testing' slots. In the above version of the deck I play an extra mana source and an extra Misdirection. If you really really think you need more searching, you can put in Vampiric, Impulse, or whatever your heart desires. But when you learn to properly mulligan with the original version of the deck, you'll get a good feel for how tightly it was originally constructed and tuned, and then modify on a weekly basis from there (similar to what Rich Shay does with his build of Control Slaver).

[Mox Sapphire]

You have not addressed the issue of dead cards. You have MANY dead cards that would be useless sitting in a hand. Slowing down tempo? Does Cunning Wish NOT slow down tempo?

Also, when do you suggest playing duress? The turn that you decide to play oath, or ASAP?

[Rapalaman1]

JACO wrote:

Please do not EVER play with more than 60 cards in your deck, no matter what convincing argument you or your friends can come up with. Playing 61 cards is a sign of poor deck construction.

This is simply not true. Although it is off topic, I think playing 60,61, even 62 cards in a deck is ok, as long as you're not playing a very strict combo deck with 70% 1 ofs that you want to better your chance of drawing.

[virtual]

This is simply not true. Although it is off topic, I think playing 60,61, even 62 cards in a deck is ok, as long as you're not playing a very strict combo deck with 70% 1 ofs that you want to better your chance of drawing.

There is an entire thread regarding this discussion in the Newbie forum.  

You have not addressed the issue of dead cards. You have MANY dead cards that would be useless sitting in a hand. Slowing down tempo? Does Cunning Wish NOT slow down tempo?

Jaco plays 2x cunning wish.  They are a way to fix the game if he reaches a state that he can't deal with otherwise (welder in play, dup in GY...)

The deck has the ability to play control-aggro, and it does a lot of the time.  However, if the need arises, the deck can play control, and the few non-tempo cards (cwish) make the deck more versatile, at the cost of a little speed.  

Also, when do you suggest playing duress? The turn that you decide to play oath, or ASAP?

This depends on your hand, and your opponent's deck.  Duress can be used as a pro-active counter, taking their crucial spell in combo, or clearing the way for your oath to hit/stick.  In testing, though I liked turn 1 fetch underground, duress, I found it too vulnerable to wasteland, so my team's build made a few different card choices.  

I would appreciate if you wouldn't call this DOA Oath, because aside from Duress, it's not really like our deck at all.

Unfortunately in this instance, I have to agree.  The old DOA oath is still very solid, with ~4-5 cards that can change with your meta-game.  There's no need for a counter revamp.  If you want to play control, then combo out to win, play meandeck oath, as the impulses and mana leaks are better with that game-plan.  

In addition, I have removed the second blessing from the engine for the following reason. Oath tends to have a lot of excessive cards that are absolutely useless when drawn at the wrong time: Skeletal scrying in opening hand (thus the cutting down to 2 counts), Akroma, Spirit, and Blessing. With all these dead cards, it is important to alleviate the count as much as possible. Getting a guaranteed shuffle is not as important as getting a card that you need.

I have to agree with this statement.  Blessings clog up the deck's draws, for little gain.  

Another major change is the removal of all land hate. It is much more important to get the combo out rather than destroying non-basics and the like. Blue mana sources are important, thus the inclusion of 2 extra underground sea and 1 island.

The mana denial aspect is intrinsic to this deck's ability to play the tempo game.  I don't think it can be cut.  Not even 1x waste...

If anyone discovers something interesting after playtesting my new build, please share your thoughts. Despite the current slaver-heavy metagame, I am a firm believer that Oath is a solid deck, and can beat slaver when properly designed.

This is certainly true.  Oath can beat slaver.  Maindeck cap's/duplicant can ruin your day, but those are an element of rogue design (or metagame calls) so if they aren't too large of a consideration, you will be able to play the beatdown, and have a good matchup vs. slaver.

[Freelancer]

JACO wrote:

Please do not EVER play with more than 60 cards in your deck, no matter what convincing argument you or your friends can come up with. Playing 61 cards is a sign of poor deck construction.

This is simply not true. Although it is off topic, I think playing 60,61, even 62 cards in a deck is ok, as long as you're not playing a very strict combo deck with 70% 1 ofs that you want to better your chance of drawing.

The problem with 61/62 card decks is that they are never optimal because there are always cards that you want to draw more often than others (in this case: force/oath for instance) expecially when the actual poster off this topic comments he finds the old build inconsistent in finding oath...

If I understand the game plan off this deck correctly (reading JACO's post I think I do) it wants to win immediatley no fushing around. And there for cares less about dead cards in hand, as long as the opponent is dead...From this reasoning cunning wish also makes more sense; you trie to kill the opponent and somehow he manages to stop you (be it big platz,bouncer, w/e) THAN you wish for a answer. On the other hand you want to be casting impulse BEFORE oath wich slows down your kill...See the difference?

[Mox Sapphire]

When I playtested JACO's build, I noticed that it was really hard pitch-casting Force of Wills and Mis-D's. Most of the time, due to the lack of other blue cards, I was pitch-casting them to each other, which defeats the purpose of the inclusion of BOTH cards, with multiple counts of each card. Impulse and Mana leak have nice synergy: if there is nothing worthwhile to counter, turn your stall into a combo-fetch. With my build, the plan is basically to stall long enough you see a window for a crucial impulse which will fetch the combo and win you the game. With the impulses and leaks, there are more blue cards which can be pitched to the forces and D's in the event you need to protect your combo when you are tapped out (this happens many many times in JACO's build, and I was unable to protect the combo during playtesting due to non-blue cards in my hand).

I have on the sideboard the inclusion of 3 naturalize to deal with platz/dup in the event that the mirror match is control slaver.  Hopefully the naturalizes will be able to eliminate these threats before they really start to kick in. Besides, C Slaver depends on the power of TFK to fuel its draw engine, which duresses are great at taking care of. In the design of my deck, if you stall properly with the assload of maindeck counters, they will never be able to dump their artifacts into their graveyard unless through discard, which by then you will hopefully be winning.

I am a firm believer that although OATH has not put up any impressive recent results, it is surely NOT dead, and will thrive once someone discovers the proper build. Does anyone (JACO?) have any advice on sideboarding DOA? I hate how deckspace is so limited.

[Revvik]

Simple mathematics: in order to maximize the number of times you will see Mox, Orchard, Oath; you will need to minimize the number of other cards.  61-62 cards may be ok for you in other decks; Oath should never be one of them.

Regarding Cunning Wish: I used to play 'tog, and to this day I hate the damn thing, it's ridiculously slow and unwieldy, yet it allows decks to overcome otherwise insurmountable obstacles to their game plan.

Take, for example, the Platinum Angel problem.  Meandeck's Oath had to win before Platz became an issue or move on to game 2.  JACO's presented Oath build uses the power of Cunning Wish to pull out the removal for the problem.  This, in effect, is an improvement on the original breakout deck.

Regarding Wasteland: Oath was not designed to fall apart to single-card strategies, and Wasteland is one of those cards that helps to reinforce this.  If not for Wasteland, then all aggro decks would have to do to find an uncounterable way to hand an Oath of Druids deck is pull out Maze of Ith.  As a bonus, Wasteland also happens to be good against other things in the format.

JACO's build has a lot less dead cards than you think.  Dead on with Impulse: after you've played with a deck long enough, you come to think that Impulse is a crutch that you just don't need.  Without it, the deck can sometimes feel like it goes "all or nothing," but it can play the long game just as well as the Dead by Turn 3 game.

[M]

I like the name Ubg-Oath better anyway...

I too have been trying to find a better Oath build than those suggested and played when Orchard first became legal. I never really liked Meandeck's build, in the article on it you can see that they considered many interesting cards, but for some reason settled on a very traditional control build.

For example, the Meandeck decklist started out: 5 moxen, lotus, 4 drain, etc with the "only" reason given that those are some of the best cards in T1. Then, because they started out with all that fast mana, the build naturally came to include Intuition/AK, just because it could. More mana-light, and faster versions were apparently never explored. The fact is, the Oath/Orchard combo is the cheapest combo-kill that ever existed, only 1 mana! So it seems natural to me to try something lighter and faster.

I have played the deck a lot (Ubg-Oath) and it has some issues that I haven't been able to resolve, but are still working on.

One issue is the draw engine. AK is slow, and it isn't good at all until after you Oath, at which point you've won anyway. Impulse was made for this deck, but it isn't draw. Skeletal Scrying I have not tested, but I am going to. I have been playing the following draw engine instead:

2 Gaea's Blessing
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Fact or Fiction
2 Merchant Scroll

The reasoning is that with this deck you only need to resolve Ancestral once to push for the win, and if not then you can always recur it by simply hardcasting Gaea's Blessing. That gave me the perfect excuse to include the second Gaea's Blessing. FoF is backup draw and Mana Drain sink (I play with Mana Drains, but not with the two off-color moxen). Another advantage to 2 Merchant Scroll is that they can fecth you the often needed Brainstorm, or a blue instant-removal in the deck (no Cunning Wish).

Another problem with the deck is the creature base (Akroma + SotN), it's very vulnerable to removal before sideboarding. That means sometimes you can't win even if you have an active Oath, because of fear of double StP, recurring Duplicant, or whatever (or you may have Akroma in hand). I have been in that situation so often that I no longer feel comfortable playing the deck without something untargetable or something recurable (eg Trisk) in the deck. And then the deck becomes slower...

[Mox Sapphire]

If anything is certain, it's the acknowledgement that AK/I in ANY oath build, let alone control slaver sucks the big wang. I like the skeletal scrying draw engine. However, the only problem is its dead weight sitting in the opening hand along with GB, Akroma, and SoTN. Besides, Scrying is only good after you trigger oath anyways. Oftentimes, I found my LOA useless because it only allows me to draw once I've reached my threshold of 7 cards via scrying. My aforementioned point is that scrying is utterly useless without triggering oath in the first place: a problem that bites back on its own tail.

[Revvik]

The benefits of Skeletal Scrying are both well-known and greatly outweigh the downsides:

- Non-blastable
- Un-Misdirectable
And to a lesser extent in this deck:
- Allows Cunning Wish to function as a Regrowth effect
which matters when playing the long game.

Scrying is not just good after an Oath activation, either.  Especially in a deck like Oath that can get a recursion engine going, early Scryings may only be for 2 cards - 3 mana for 2 while removing some fetchlands (useful when you recur your entire graveyard - another numbers game) is still solid.

And it is also so far a matter of opinion on Intuition/AK "sucks the big wang" in this or Slaver, but there are enough threads on that (and Shay will probably start killing my family members if I go into further depth on this).

If you find yourself with an opening hand with a lot of dead cards (i.e., one of your creatures, a Scrying you cannot use, or your lone/one of your Gaea's Blessings) then you should probably try mulliganing.  It really is surprising how being aggressive in the right matchups with your mulliganing can improve your play.

Instead of keeping a hand thinking "I'll draw a Brainstorm and shuffle away this Blessing/Spirit"  or "Gee, this Scrying won't be useful until I've used both of these fetchlands and maybe drawn and played a counterspell or two", then ship 'em back.

EDIT: In regards to the post below, StP can be problematic, especially with the current state of Type 1.  The loss of Trinisphere means more non-traditional decks will start coming out of the woodworks, and many lists (especially the sexy-lookin' 3cC) are gonna be packin' Swords.  With respect to area-specific metagames, changing the maindeck creature base might be a thought.

[Denney The Third]

Skeletal scrying is amazing in the deck. You let blessing hit the stack then scry away garbage and thin out what you nolonger need leaving the chances of getting control to win the game greatly increased.
The problem this deck has that I think most oath has is it's susceptiability to creature removal. STP owns it. in 4cc 3cc or tog with white they will get 2 counters stp your guy and beat you to death with the 1/1s you gave them.

Overall however I like this build much better then previous oath decks because the drawing power of skeletal scrying is quite amazing with oath and Duress is key to getting the early game advantage.

[JACO]

When I playtested JACO's build, I noticed that it was really hard pitch-casting Force of Wills and Mis-D's. Most of the time, due to the lack of other blue cards, I was pitch-casting them to each other, which defeats the purpose of the inclusion of BOTH cards, with multiple counts of each card.

I have no idea why you would be having a tough time pitching cards to Force of Misdirection. There are 19 blue cards in the most recent list I presented, and 20 blue cards in the original version. Anything more than 15 is considered pretty standard.

I am a firm believer that although OATH has not put up any impressive recent results, it is surely NOT dead, and will thrive once someone discovers the proper build. Does anyone (JACO?) have any advice on sideboarding DOA? I hate how deckspace is so limited.

I too believe that Oath can be a top notch competitor in this metagame. In the original primer thread I wrote, there are a few questions and answers about sideboarding in there, specifically about playing against Dragon. I have cut the 4 Chalices from the sideboard in the original build in favor of 3 Arcane Laboratory. They are just flat out better against storm based combo, as they aren't affected by Rebuild. If you are playing a version with Cunning Wish, obviously your sideboarding is going to be a lot different than if you aren't. In my version the help I usually need is accomodated by siding in Rack and Ruins (vs. Stax or Workshop variants) or Arcane Laboratory (vs. combo). Obviously Pristine Angel and Platinum Angel have specific matches where they shine, and you are usually going to be sideboarding out Spirit of the Night (or Ancient Hydra, if you are running that main).

My aforementioned point is that scrying is utterly useless without triggering oath in the first place: a problem that bites back on its own tail.

It sounds to me like too many people want to draw a huge amount of cards from Scrying. Scrying is never useless in this deck. Revvik has the concept nailed down, and that concept is that a lot of the time, if you have a Scrying in your hand early, you will just want to Scry for 1-3 cards on your opponent's EOT, or on your first main phase early if you have Drain mana. If you ever get to the middle of the game, Scrying for more than 3 is usually game breaking in your favor. Whatever cards (Force, Drain, Duress, fetchlands, Brainstorms) you have to remove are irrelevant if the Scrying will help you achieve your goal of winning. Another thing to remember is that the cards you Scry away can also be Cunning Wished for later (a Brainstorm, Force, or Drain, for example). Do not get hung up on removing cards; just be smart about it. For example, if you need to win the Orchard/Wasteland war vs. Oath, you would obviously rather remove counterspells, Duress, and fetchlands before you remove Wasteland and Orchards. Think of Scrying as a really good cantrip, or an AK, that can't be Misdirected, and can't be REB'ed.

EDIT: Freelancer has a good grasp of what I was trying to convey earlier. Impulse slows you down, as you 'dig.' As I mentioned, Cunning Wish is only present to deal with problematic cards. It is never dead, however, because you can always Wish for draw (Fact or Scrying, whatever you choose to run in your sideboard) if you don't need an answer.

Regarding the Blessing count, running 2 Blessings is a product of testing. I started with one, and moved to two. To me, it's never a 'dead' card, because it always cantrips or draws a counter. I've tested this deck and a few other Oath builds hundreds of games each, and I can't tell you how many times I would be in a position where I actually needed the second Blessing. It also makes it tougher for Slaver decks to be able to kill yourself via decking if they have to account for two Blessings when forcing you to Oath.

[thecapn]

I would not run any less than 3 Scrying.  If you Fetch, Brainstorm or Duress, and Mana Drain or Force of Will on Turns 1 and 2, then you can Scrying for 3 on turn 3.  This is comparable to all the other draw engines in the format, and if you don't want draw spells in you're opening hand I'm not sure what you want.  You don't have to Scrying for 5 or whatever you're trying to do.  If you're worried about not being able to shuffle back in Mana Drain and Force of Will because they're removed from the game then you need to recognize that if you're activating Oath you're winning.

I don't believe there is any reason to run more than 1 Gaea's Blessing - in the current iterations of Oath I've always approached it as a necessary evil or an insurance plan.  It's not very often that you need the one, and I can think of really very few situations where you would want to have two.  You never want to draw it, and most of the time you don't care if it triggers or not since you are getting to Oath after all.

Wastelands are a metagame call.  Meandeck Oath (which was desigined for a specific tournament and was outdated the day after that tournament) ran 3 because we thought there would be some Oath but not much, and running 4 Intuition allowed us to fetch a Wasteland in the mirror.  Like Jaco said you will not win the mirror match if you have no Wastelands, unless you're lucky game 1 or have something like Spawning Pit in your sideboard...  If I expected a lot of Oath or Dragon I'd run all 5 in some combination of main deck and sideboard - it's usually very hard to have mana base stability and run all 5 wastelands.  I would not take Jaco's latest mana base to a tournament, but then again I think one of the biggest weaknesses 3 Color Oath has is it's own mana base and I haven't been able to solve that problem myself.

Also, the first list in the thread has no way to deal with Platinum Angel main deck.  This is 2005 - every single deck has to have a way to deal with Platinum Angel.  It worked in October 2004 in Richmond (we didn't expect much Control Slaver and were right), but since then (partially because our original list had no main deck out) a big enough portion of the field runs tinker plats and you must respect that.

I think that's everything...

[Mox Sapphire]

What do people think about playing mana crypt or sol ring in UG oath for faster intuitions? Is this a viable solution for speed?

[thecapn]

If anything is certain, it's the acknowledgement that AK/I in ANY oath build, let alone control slaver sucks the big wang.

[pure]

I've been testing UBG Oath for a few weeks and been messing around with and tweaking the creatures that I run... I see people here are choosing Akroma/SotN engine. Does any ever find it inconsistent? Just wondering how other things could work.. Colossus viable? Is Serra Avatar/Dragon Breath thing trash? Is Akroma/SotN the best creature combo or could others work? If anyone could tell me the best creatures to run in a ControlSlaver heavy metagame, Aggro metagame, or Combo or an even metagame that would be appreciative... Thanks for the time.

.pure.

[Bob The Builder]

I've also been toying with Serra Avatar/Dragon-cards.

Allas, the avatar has no evasion/trample/haste, so including cards to overcome this problem is a must.  This is a huge disadvantage, since adding (in this case the dragon-) cards to make the Avatar actually deal it's damage means removing good cards; a lot of good cards since you really need to attach the dragon-card(s) so you can't just add one or two md.

This problem makes me like the current akroma/Spirit build more.  If you ever come to solve the problem, I'd be happy to pilot the deck with a new creature base, but untill then I'm sticking with akroma/spirit.

[Cyrrix_chipset]

I've also been toying with Serra Avatar/Dragon-cards.

This problem makes me like the current akroma/Spirit build more.  If you ever come to solve the problem, I'd be happy to pilot the deck with a new creature base, but untill then I'm sticking with akroma/spirit.

From what I have seen with helping my friend test UBG oath the best 2 guys to run in MD oath is Akroma, and Anceint hydra.  The hydra answer Plat angel and other nasty things like Goblin weilders.  A must have imo.  I also am useing him in my UG oath build because he offers the most flexiblity IMO.  Test him out and see what you think.
Thanlks

[FalanX]

I've been testing UBG Oath for a few weeks and been messing around with and tweaking the creatures that I run... I see people here are choosing Akroma/SotN engine. Does any ever find it inconsistent? Just wondering how other things could work.. Colossus viable? Is Serra Avatar/Dragon Breath thing trash? Is Akroma/SotN the best creature combo or could others work? If anyone could tell me the best creatures to run in a ControlSlaver heavy metagame, Aggro metagame, or Combo or an even metagame that would be appreciative... Thanks for the time.
.pure.

I have also testing Akroma/SotN engine in UBG Oath .....
The biggest problem for this two creatures is white color...or better known StP Swords to plowshers.....
Today i played with random guy and with his no name random deck(white green )...


Without mine sideboard.... score was  5:5.......
He sideboarded 4x Xainted Swarm.......
Beachuse of stuff like welders, swarms,Waterfront Bouncer i will put out 2x Missdirection and add 2x Fire/Ice....and test it......

[Bob The Builder]

Cyrrix_chipset wrote:

From what I have seen with helping my friend test UBG oath the best 2 guys to run in MD oath is Akroma, and Anceint hydra. The hydra answer Plat angel and other nasty things like Goblin weilders. A must have imo. I also am useing him in my UG oath build because he offers the most flexiblity IMO. Test him out and see what you think.

After testing Ancient Hydra I find him to be very situational.  It's okay when your opponent has a threat that has to be dealt with, but all the other times I just want to swing some damage his way, not giving him some extra turns...  For me Ancient Hydra is a SB choice.
I even tested with him as a third creature and 2 blessings to get him back as much as possible.  I don't think this is the way for oath to go...

[Imsomniac101]

Just a thought.....but if you were going to use the Dragon cards, why not just play with 2x Nicol Bolas and 2x Dragon Breath. It does take up more space then the traditional duo but hitting your opponents entire hand on turn 2/3 should more then make up for it.

[Khahan]

I'm a recent new player to Oath (though I am playing the meandeck build w/out the black, however, I think my questoin is relevant to both builds).

What do you think of the creature base?  Is 2 really enough?  Personally, I've found 2 creatures leaves me lacking quite a bit. I'm often wishing there were just 1 more in the deck to pull out and finish the job.

Now, one reason for this may be my local meta. We do seem to have an unusually high number of aggro decks. There is a very good/excellent RGU aggro/control deck to contend with. There are a handful of explosive Affinity decks (though I haven't lost to them yet, they make me think more than I'd like to!!! ) and an aggro workshop or two floating around.

However, back to the question: How many of you who play various oath/control builds (note this does not apply to most oath combo builds like the tendrils or salvagers) have often sat there wishing for just 1 more creature?

With that in mind, which creature would you go with?
[card]ancient hydra[/card]: His virtues were put forth early in this thread, but to recap: can count as creature removal and direct damage and is easily recurred.

[card]platinum angel[/card]: I think its obvious what this guy brings to the board

[card]phantom nishoba[/card]: He does not have haste, but he is a trampler. He also discourages your opponent from attacking the turn he comes out and can make tendril kills more difficult. Not to mention, he's tough to get rid of.

[card]darksteel colossus[/card]: If I have to tell you why he needs to be considered, you probably shouldn't be in this thread.

[card]sundering titan[/card]: Nice land disruption

[card]kodama of the south tree[/card]/[card]plated slagwurm[/card]: I ran my deck w/ the slagwurm (though in my defense, I mistakenly thought he had trample which makes him infinitely better than even spirit of the night in my eyes..but alas).  Slagwurm is basically a permanent creature on the board (unless your opponent has the colossus) and at 8/8, can end a game quickly.
Kodama is, again, untargetable, but has trample to push damage through. However, his 4 toughness leaves him vulnerable to death by beefed dryads, workshop creatures, titans, and colussus.

So 2 questions:
1) Do you add a 3rd creature to control oath?

2) If you do (and just for the sake of this question, say you do), which one of the above?

I would think Colossus, Angel and Hydra can make the strongest cases. Nishoba may be a meta game choice.
Kodama or Slagwurm seems to me to be the weakest choices, but I'm still not convinced they should be ignored yet.

[Jacob Orlove]

If you want a third creature, particular if you're having issue with racing aggro, then you should look into [card]Pristine Angel[/card]. Protection from everything makes her unblockable and very nearly indestructibe. The untap ability, though, is her real advantage--it basically means she doesn't tap to attack. If you want a mini-Akroma, Pristine really is your best option. I'd even consider running Akroma, Pristine x2 if you really wanted to go up to three creatures.

And, of course, you can hardcast her for the win.

[Khahan]

[card]pristine angel[/card] is one I never gave thought to. But it certainly is a step up from either kodama or slagwurm.

Would you change up the spell base at all for this? Maybe drop 1 or 2 mana leaks for some more instant speed card draw?  I would just be concerned about not having an appropriate spell in hand to untap.
Has that been a problem for anybody who playtested with the pristine angel?

[Legrow]

I think Jacob Orlove is referring to the fact that you can always just play sorcery-speed stuff in your second main phase so the Pristine Angel will be untapped to block.

[Khahan]

Yes, but plenty can happen during the attack phase, as well.  Though any spells can be responded to with a counter....which will untap the angel of course.
But barring there, there are activated abilities and other creatures.
Just asking if this really is a problem to be concerned about or not.  
Can't see that it would, but I don't like to assume.

[jshields]

my biggest problem with playing oath, which I typically use for our metagame has been dealing with Maze of Ith (GRRRR!).  I copied down the decklist that was previously mentioned, except for booting a single Misdirection for a Pernicious Deed (mass removal is needed in the deck for certain scenarios locally).  However, I gave what I saw some consideration and believe that the old creature base in the SB - Platinum, Pristine, and Irridescent angels is not as effective.  Instead, I actually tried Plated Slagwurm which worked wonderfully, thereby meriting a slot in the board for Maze of Ick problems and I also decided to add in Ancient Hydra for a damage and removal source that is relatively easy to cast and that swings or pings for reasonable damage.  I still kept the Platinum Angel in my board, but over all, the Ancient Hydra and Plated Slagwurm have done far better for me in my small, but mixed environment

[Green Knight]

jshields - Re: the Slagworm it does get around maze wonderfully, but what about when they simply block it with tokens? If only he had trample. I know you mentioned adding in Hydra for this, but aren't you effectively letting them Oath since you're killing all their tokens? I question this logic.
Now it sounds like you are playing the version w/o Waste/Strip these cards solve your little problem and as a side effect are very good vs. Mirror, Dragon, Stax etc… Why reinvent the wheel?
As far as Deed main deck, I have been playing w/ an Engineered Explosives and truly love this card, it is so flexible and much easier to cast.  I’d liken this to the way ‘Tog switched from Deed to EE.