[Article] More About March 1st

[Machinus]

We decided to announce the change six months early for two reasons. One, the cards themselves can sometimes be hard to find, and we wanted players to have time to track them down, trade for and/or buy them. Two, we wanted an extra-long window to make sure we banned and restricted the right cards from those sets, as we have no real internal resources dedicated to playing Portal cards in large constructed formats. So to all you Vintage and Legacy buffs—if you find anything ridiculous in the next few months, drop me a line using the email link at the end of the article.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/af57

[Moxlotus]

I emailed him and mentioned Grim Tutor.  Deathlong with Grim Tutor instead of Wish itself would only get more powerful.  3 life instead of half and Yawgmoth's Will MAINDECK.  *Stupid shit I posted deleted*

EDIT: Wow, I shouldn't post things at 1:00 in the morning.  Personal Tutor, not Cruel is restricted.

[E Face]

So what exactly does Aaron Forsythe want us to do?

Does he want us to send him our secret tech if it is ridiculous so that they can ban it before we get a chance to prove how ridiculous our tech is in a tournament?

Or does he just want us to show him what kind of brokeness is out there for thier knowledge, not just for the sake of the B/R list? Is it that they dont want to find it themselves because its not an important issue to them right now? Does he assume that by giving us 6 months in advance to test we will act as "members" of R&D or whatever and do the work for them?

What exactly are we discussing/debating in this thread?

And one general question about Portal. (this probably has been answered) Will Horsemanship be a new mechanic or will it be erratted into something already in existence such as Flying?

[BigChuck]

The Horsemanship question was in the article. Basically, Horsemanship will be the new shadow:Neither will see play.

[Mr. Fantazy]

I think he's alluding to things already known by the Vintage Community.

While R&D does some testing/playing of the format their knowledge is limited. It is only prudent for them to allocate most of their time and effort to the main formats. One of the benefits of this is the Vintage community seems to have alot more say in what happens in the format.

What's interesting about this is, the hint of "this is your format guys, if there is going to be a problem, let us know so it can be fixed before you get stuck with it."

It seems to me that we are being given the chance to keep Vintage healthy. It will be interesting to see how well we do.

Shawn

[Vegeta2711]

How good, they simply use us to double-check what's broken and what isn't. Honestly this was probably the best thing they could've done for portal.

[Tristal]

I emailed him and mentioned Grim Tutor.  Deathlong with Grim Tutor instead of Wish itself would only get more powerful.  3 life instead of half and Yawgmoth's Will MAINDECK.  I mean, they restricted Cruel Tutor but not this?  Cruel Tutor should be almost always worse than Grim Tutor.  1 colorless instead of B, 1 life less, but card disadvantage.  I don't know why they would restrict Cruel Tutor over Grim Tutor unless it was just an oversight.

They're not restricting Cruel Tutor.

[Marton]

I emailed him and mentioned Grim Tutor.  Deathlong with Grim Tutor instead of Wish itself would only get more powerful.  3 life instead of half and Yawgmoth's Will MAINDECK.  I mean, they restricted Cruel Tutor but not this?  Cruel Tutor should be almost always worse than Grim Tutor.  1 colorless instead of B, 1 life less, but card disadvantage.  I don't know why they would restrict Cruel Tutor over Grim Tutor unless it was just an oversight.

They restricted personal tutor, not cruel tutor. Personal tutor is a mystical tutor, in sorcery, but that can only search for sorceries. It seems to me much better than cruel tutor, which I doubt will see any play at all.

[E Face]

Thanks BigChuck, i didnt realize that the link was for a new article, I assumed   it was the link for the email.

I agree with Mr. Fantazy's take on what the R&D is trying to do for our format. They are keeping it exactly what they call it, "our format". Type One magic is practically considered the Holy Grail of magic formats. The R&D, especially Aaron Forsythe after his attendance at SCGP9 2, knows that it is in "our" hands to keep the format healthy and fun.

[Cross]

What's interesting about this is, the hint of "this is your format guys, if there is going to be a problem, let us know so it can be fixed before you get stuck with it."

They already have done this with trini. If enough people whine they can get what they want.

I do feel that it was cool of them to wait awhile for them to allow people to find cards. If portal was just randomly legalized the prices for cards would have been more insane than they are now. A decent number of decks don't even run mystical and the much more terrible personal tutor is being sold on SCG for 20. Imperial seal would probably be at moxen level instead of library level price range.

[yespuhyren]

I emailed him and mentioned Grim Tutor.  Deathlong with Grim Tutor instead of Wish itself would only get more powerful.  3 life instead of half and Yawgmoth's Will MAINDECK.  I mean, they restricted Cruel Tutor but not this?  Cruel Tutor should be almost always worse than Grim Tutor.  1 colorless instead of B, 1 life less, but card disadvantage.  I don't know why they would restrict Cruel Tutor over Grim Tutor unless it was just an oversight.

ONLY personal tutor and imperial seal were restricted.  NOT cruel tutor

Grim tutor is great though

[Hi-Val]

There were some grumblings from players that Aether Vial was too powerful to remain legal, but it hasn't been showing up in enough winning decks to warrant action.

From the article. Just another hint that they use tournament results as part of the restriction criteria.

[Cyrrix_chipset]

I love that they are saying it's our format, but am still feeling a bit cheated.  When those portal sets came out they said they would not be Tourney legal.  So being the tourney player I am I bought NONE.  now years and years later they are all of a sudden All legal.  Prices have all skyrocketed and we the tourney players get shafted.  I think they should have stuck to their guns and left them illegal or atleast show signs or promises of reprinting the UNDER printed 3 portal set that was for some reason or another not made in US.

[policehq]

I love that they are saying it's our format, but am still feeling a bit cheated.  When those portal sets came out they said they would not be Tourney legal.  So being the tourney player I am I bought NONE.  now years and years later they are all of a sudden All legal.  Prices have all skyrocketed and we the tourney players get shafted.  I think they should have stuck to their guns and left them illegal or atleast show signs or promises of reprinting the UNDER printed 3 portal set that was for some reason or another not made in US.

You'll be alright. I rarely even play Vampiric or Mystical Tutor, and sorcery versions of them are inherently worse.

Barry

[Smmenen]

I emailed him and mentioned Grim Tutor.  Deathlong with Grim Tutor instead of Wish itself would only get more powerful.  3 life instead of half and Yawgmoth's Will MAINDECK.  *Stupid shit I posted deleted*

EDIT: Wow, I shouldn't post things at 1:00 in the morning.  Personal Tutor, not Cruel is restricted.

Grim Tutor does not deserve restriction barely anymore than Death Wish does.

[Moxlotus]

I emailed him and mentioned Grim Tutor.  Deathlong with Grim Tutor instead of Wish itself would only get more powerful.  3 life instead of half and Yawgmoth's Will MAINDECK.  *Stupid shit I posted deleted*

EDIT: Wow, I shouldn't post things at 1:00 in the morning.  Personal Tutor, not Cruel is restricted.

Grim Tutor does not deserve restriction barely anymore than Death Wish does.

I didn't say it did.  His article merely said to mention any cards with potential to be powerful and Grim Tutor is one of those cards.  I just said that the potential is there, whether or not it is deserving is something different.

[policehq]

I emailed him and mentioned Grim Tutor.  Deathlong with Grim Tutor instead of Wish itself would only get more powerful.  3 life instead of half and Yawgmoth's Will MAINDECK.  *Stupid shit I posted deleted*

EDIT: Wow, I shouldn't post things at 1:00 in the morning.  Personal Tutor, not Cruel is restricted.

Grim Tutor does not deserve restriction barely anymore than Death Wish does.

The synnergy with Yawgmoth's Will is insane.
1) If it's countered, you still have a chance to draw Yawgmoth's Will.
2) Once it resolves, it is not removed from the game, so it can be cast again with Yawgmoth's Will.
3) Unless you're at less than 6 life, you will lose less life than you would with Death Wish.
4) Death Wish = 4 copies of Yawgmoth's Will. Grim Tutor = 6 [at least] copies of Yawgmoth's Will (including Demonic Tutor and Will itself).

It needs to be restricted before ugly things happen. I don't really know what Stax decks are going to look like without the 3 extra Trinisphere, but if combo learns to play around Sphere of Resistance, Grim Tutor and Yawgmoth's Will are going to be broken.

Barry

[That0neguy]

Grim Tutor does not deserve restriction barely anymore than Death Wish does.

Hmmmmm could someone have a hidden agenda???

JK but it seriously probbably doesn't need to be restricted because it still requires quite a bit of mana to go supper insane with (3BBBB without a lotus led or petal)  If make another stupidly good mana producer like LED it needs to go otherwise I think it is safe to at least allow it to be played for at least a couple months in tournements before we see if it actually needs the axe.

[Smmenen]

I emailed him and mentioned Grim Tutor.  Deathlong with Grim Tutor instead of Wish itself would only get more powerful.  3 life instead of half and Yawgmoth's Will MAINDECK.  *Stupid shit I posted deleted*

EDIT: Wow, I shouldn't post things at 1:00 in the morning.  Personal Tutor, not Cruel is restricted.

Grim Tutor does not deserve restriction barely anymore than Death Wish does.

The synnergy with Yawgmoth's Will is insane.
1) If it's countered, you still have a chance to draw Yawgmoth's Will.
2) Once it resolves, it is not removed from the game, so it can be cast again with Yawgmoth's Will.
3) Unless you're at less than 6 life, you will lose less life than you would with Death Wish.
4) Death Wish = 4 copies of Yawgmoth's Will. Grim Tutor = 6 [at least] copies of Yawgmoth's Will (including Demonic Tutor and Will itself).

It needs to be restricted before ugly things happen. I don't really know what Stax decks are going to look like without the 3 extra Trinisphere, but if combo learns to play around Sphere of Resistance, Grim Tutor and Yawgmoth's Will are going to be broken.

Barry

Will it produce a viable deck?  Sure.  Does that mean it deserves restriction?  No.

[Mana Duane]

Has anyone considered what the changes mean for the future of Yawgmoth's Will? I believe that there is a critical number of playable tutors, beyond which the format becomes very difficult to control because there are enough good ways to tutor for restricted cards. With portal we gain Personal, Imperial Seal and Grim tutor. Assuming for the moment that grim gets the axe, we then have 6 playable tutors (VT, MT, DT, plus the three portal tutors). With Will itself that is 7. It must make the case for banning Yawg Will a lot stonger.

James

[E Face]

It must make the case for banning Yawg Will a lot stonger.

Are we at that point in Type One when one must start to say that Yawg's Win is just as noteworthy as the other pillars of the format? Yawgmoth's Will is just one of those cards that can't simply be banned because it is the Holy Grail of combo decks. Not only that, but the Will is found in many many other decks, making it just as important to the format as say Mana Drain, Workshop, and Fow...

While I do agree that Yawgmoth's Will is supremely broken, I just dont see any reason why it should be banned. Vintage is the home of broken cards, the format where sometimes one spell should just win you the game. Vintage is the format we play to play with our cards, not to ban them.

[ChaosTheory]

I'm glad they waited to legalize Portal and it's friends, especially since as said in the article, some of these cards are hard to find.
Imperial seal may just be one of those cards that I'll always proxy. The price on it is ridiculous now.
Anybody know if they're planning to reprint any of the sets like Portal: 3 Kingdoms to make them more accessible to us?