TheManaDrain.com
October 05, 2025, 01:25:11 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: 2 decks. Seeing what I can accomplish with B/U  (Read 1306 times)
Khahan
Basic User
**
Posts: 454


View Profile Email
« on: March 13, 2005, 09:14:20 am »

Whenever I try building a T1 deck, the cards I want to play with that seem like they should be working fall into 2 colors: Blue and Black.
Now, I'm not the most serious T1 player (probably 90% of my play time is in limited), but I would like to have 1 or 2 reliable and competitive decks to take to an occassional tournament (I have made it to Waterbury before and t1 is starting to pop up in my area a bit more).
So, without further ramblings, here are my decks (playtested by myself on apprentice sine I don't have a huge meta game in my area):

These are both for a 10-proxie environ. I've marked my proxies w/ P

B/U RFG
Creatures:
1 Darksteel colossus
2 Rootwater thief

Spells:
1 Ancestral Recall (P)
4 Cranial Extraction
4 Dark Ritual
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Diabolic Edict
2 Eradicate
4 Extract
4 Force of Will
2 Haunting Echoes
4 Mana Drain (3 P)
3 Quash
1 Time Walk (P)
1 Tinker

Artifacts
Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet (P)
1 Mox Sapphire (P)
1 Sol Ring

Land
1 Boseiju, Who Shelter's All
4 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
3 Swamp
4 Underground Sea


The sideboard needs a good bit of help but what I currently includes:
3 Planar Void
2 Engineered Plague
3 Energy Flux
2 Stifle


This is currently a 9 proxie deck.
I usually win by decking my opponent or making them scoop by taking their own win conditions.  
Here's where I need some advice:
1) What non-mana cards would you change?  
I feel the weak card slots are Rootwater Thief (just cause he fits the deck concept doesn't mean he belongs...though he does extremely well vs fish I have found and I can't explain why). I could also do with 1 less Quash (though a resolved quash via boseiju wrecks my opponents control when I quash their mana drain or fow, but 3 seems unnecessary due to the casting cost) and 1 less haunting echoes.
This is 4 slots open potentially. I figure Yawgmoth's Will needs to be one of them.

2) With Tendrils rising, is Stifle worth maindecking?  

3) Would you change up the mana base?
The decks strength:
Boseiju makes this deck work.  Cranial Extraction is the main spell I want to resolve against most decks and a turn 1 extract for Tinker vs most decks eases the pressure a bit.


Deck 2:
Tendrils, my own build

4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall (p)
2 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Force of Will
1 Gush
4 Hurky's Recall
4 Mana Drain (3 p)
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Retract
4 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Walk (P)
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Artifacts:
1 Black Lotus (P)
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet (P)
1 Mox Pearl (P)
1 Mox Ruby (P)
1 Mox Sapphire (P)
1 Sol Ring


Lands
4 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
5 Swamp

I opted not to go the Strip/waste route in the lands on this deck. Quite simply, I want my mana on the table turns 1-3. The decks runs much smoother and more consistently.
Again, SB I'm still working on, but would rather focus on some main deck advice right now. And again, can Stifle help this deck maindeck or does it belong in the sb?

I've played this against the meandeck build. When I have FoW in opening hand, I can stop MD, when I don't it goes off before my build. Its simply a faster build. But it gains speed by sacrificing protection. I opted for a tad less speed (often turn 3 I can go off) for more counter back up protection.
Logged

Team - One Man Show.   yes, the name is ironic.
Gort32
Basic User
**
Posts: 60



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2005, 04:35:15 pm »

With your first deck, the biggest thing that I notice is that you are pretty mich limited to topdecking - you have no real draw engine.  Honestly, I would drop the thieves and the quashes for some more draw.  Skeletal Scrying comes to mind, but Brainstorm and/or Impusle wouldn't be completly out of place.  Quash isn't worth keeping the mana open for when you are running Cranials - Crainials are ify themselves, but Crainums AND Quash is overkill.  If you need the couterspells go with, well Counterspell or maybe Misdirection.

I'm seeing a lot of other questionable choices here - Haunting Echos, Extract, Boseiju draw my attention immediatly.  Could you give some insight and explination?

I'm no combo guy, so I'm not even going to comment on the second deck.

On a completly unrelated note, if you like Blue/Black, give 'Tog a try Wink
Logged
Khahan
Basic User
**
Posts: 454


View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2005, 10:08:31 pm »

Thanks for the input Gort. I guess a bit of deck explanation would be useful for the first one:
Simply put, its a different control deck.
Typically, people think of control as: hand disruption, land, disruption, counterspell.
I'm going to remove threats from the deck before they even get that far.
Hence, the heavy emphasis on cards like cranial extraction, haunting echoes, extract, quash.

Now, this is a bit of a slow deck. I tend to build mana quickly with it and can usually do a turn 2 or 3 cranial extraction. Working up to that turn, I can often do a turn 1 extract. I have mana drains and force of wills for turns 2/3.

But again, the whole idea is to cripple a deck before its engine is even drawn.

Why
Cranial Extraction: Best card to accomplish this job. Hit all 4 welders at once. If their gone, can hit FoW, or tendrils etc, depending on the deck.

Extract: Its a one shot deal. Turn 1, against most decks, I'm taking their tinker away. Against non-tinker using decks (Oath for example), I'm going for "1 of" win conditions.

Quash: Countermagic is prevalent in T1 and so many decks rely on FoW or Mana Drain to back up their pieces. Being able quash a FoW and remove all 4 copies of it from their deck has been well worth the mana investment.  This plays almost like a Draw-Go deck. I usually have no issues with mana.

Boseiju: Again, this is card in there to help with the prevalent countermagic in T1.  It helps the quash. It also helps the Cranial Extraction go through.

Rootwater Thief: He kind of fit the deck idea. Continual chipping away of my opponents resources before they are drawn. But he's played out to be a weak link in the deck.  Will probably drop him for brainstorms. -2 Thief, +2 brainstorm

Haunting Echoes: There is really only need for 1 of these, not 2. But its graveyard hate at its worst.  I know the casting cost is a big reason this doesn't get played in t1 much. But, again, I tend not to have mana issues with this deck. I'm able to control the early game enough to get to the point where this is simply devastating.  Will try -1 echoes, +1 Brainstorm

And finally, -1 swamp, +1 Brainstorm to bring the brainstorm count to 4.

As for win conditions: DSC/Tinker is there for a secondary win condition. But as stated earlier, most of my wins come from my opponent scooping. Occassionally, I get an obstinate player who stays in until his library is drawn out.

Instead of 4 brainstorms, would it be worth considering:
Memory Jar
Timetwister
x2 skeletal scrying?
Logged

Team - One Man Show.   yes, the name is ironic.
Gort32
Basic User
**
Posts: 60



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2005, 11:24:04 pm »

Quote from: Khahan
Now, this is a bit of a slow deck. I tend to build mana quickly with it and can usually do a turn 2 or 3 cranial extraction. Working up to that turn, I can often do a turn 1 extract. I have mana drains and force of wills for turns 2/3.


Wrong answer.  If you are going to depend on a Cranial it had better be on turn 1 consistantly.  You've got some expensive stuff here - you've either got to dump some of the expensive stuff or go balls-out mana accelleration.  Grim Monolith, Lotus Petal, maybe even some Elvish Spirit Guides if you want to keep that many things in your deck >4cc.  Proxy off the rest of the moxen.

Quote
But again, the whole idea is to cripple a deck before its engine is even drawn.


Not a bad theory (not the greatest, but we'll deal with that later).  I guess the only question if what are you going to do if they drop a threat 1st turn?  2xEradicate isn't going to cut it for 4cc.  Echoing Truth may serve you well here.  DIabolic Edict is ok too, but you need to worry about more than just creatures.

Quote
Why
Cranial Extraction: Best card to accomplish this job. Hit all 4 welders at once. If their gone, can hit FoW, or tendrils etc, depending on the deck.


You aren't going to cripple any halfway-decent Teir-1 deck.  Not going to happen.  At least not consistantly enough to matter.  If by some chance you do cripple my win then I'm gonna play the game out and time draw you.

Quote
Extract: Its a one shot deal. Turn 1, against most decks, I'm taking their tinker away. Against non-tinker using decks (Oath for example), I'm going for "1 of" win conditions.


A better strategy than the Crainials.  Like I said, you can't cripple them, but if you can disrupt enough to take advantage you might be ok.  Extract works a whole lot quicker than Cranial and, although Crainial is devastating if you can pull it off, by the time you can pull off a 4cc card your opponent is likely to have a counter for it.  Extract is a lot quicker and taking out one copy of a major piece of their deck makes it that much less likely that he'll topdeck it.  However, decks like Belcher won't care - it'll just tutor for whatever it wants and spack you around.  Feel free to play around, but I would be running Extract before I ran Crainial.

Quote
Quash: Countermagic is prevalent in T1 and so many decks rely on FoW or Mana Drain to back up their pieces. Being able quash a FoW and remove all 4 copies of it from their deck has been well worth the mana investment.  This plays almost like a Draw-Go deck. I usually have no issues with mana.


By the time you can afford to leave 4 mana hanging out during your opponent's turn he's already going to have a threat on the table.  Take a cue from him and have a threat out yourself instead of turtling up.

Quote
Boseiju: Again, this is card in there to help with the prevalent countermagic in T1.  It helps the quash. It also helps the Cranial Extraction go through.


I guess...I think that I'd rather see wasteland/strip and go on the offensive though.  You are going to need massive mana accelleration as it is - a land that comes into play tapped is not likely a wise choice.

Quote
Rootwater Thief: He kind of fit the deck idea. Continual chipping away of my opponents resources before they are drawn. But he's played out to be a weak link in the deck.  Will probably drop him for brainstorms. -2 Thief, +2 brainstorm


Not a bad call.  Ophidian wouldn't be a bad choice either.

Quote
Haunting Echoes: There is really only need for 1 of these, not 2. But its graveyard hate at its worst.  I know the casting cost is a big reason this doesn't get played in t1 much. But, again, I tend not to have mana issues with this deck. I'm able to control the early game enough to get to the point where this is simply devastating.  Will try -1 echoes, +1 Brainstorm


Realistically, it's not going to be able to be played very often.  If you really want it, yea drop it down to one (yes, we all do need our toys - I have been known to run some crazy stuff in my control decks too).  If you are really concerned about graveyard stuff, a Coffin Purge or Tormod's Crypt is a whole lot quicker.

Quote
And finally, -1 swamp, +1 Brainstorm to bring the brainstorm count to 4.


Wait a bit for this - make a few changes to your spell load then decide if you need to mess with your mana.

Quote
As for win conditions: DSC/Tinker is there for a secondary win condition. But as stated earlier, most of my wins come from my opponent scooping. Occassionally, I get an obstinate player who stays in until his library is drawn out.


Keep in mind that naturally decking an opponent isn't a viable strategy in tourney play.  All it takes is a quick beatdown in game 1 and you can Crainial him all day and he can just sit there taking up time for a draw.

Quote
Instead of 4 brainstorms, would it be worth considering:
Memory Jar
Timetwister


Very good cards, but I don't see you winning off them with this deck (Control decks usually don't).  Your opponent will win quickly if you don't.

Quote
x2 skeletal scrying?


Not a bad call.  You need *some* kind of draw engine here somewhere

On the plus side, you don't have to worry about Trinisphere with this deck!
Logged
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.032 seconds with 18 queries.