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Author Topic: Help me beat this deck archetype  (Read 1893 times)
Fistandantilus
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« on: March 29, 2005, 09:41:35 pm »

I play in a casual environment where almost no card is restricted or banned, but nobody owns (or will ever own) any "power."

I keep facing off against a guy who plays a deck that uses goblin welders, sundering titan, winter orbs, spheres of resistance, and metalworkers to put me in a lock, destroy all of my lands, and then beat me down (welder recurs titan over and over).  Seems kind of like "Stax" but somewhat different.

I'm trying to figure out a good non-powered deck to oppose this annoying monstrosity.  Can anyone suggest some good decks/cards to use?  No power, please.  I want to make a deck that will majorly hose him, even if it loses to other decks.

I'm thinking maybe that using creature mana might be my best bet--elves, maybe.  

Any suggestions?
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2005, 10:19:26 pm »

If you're playing green, you should run 4 Oxidize and 4 Quirion Ranger. Maybe splash red for Artifact Mutation, burn (to kill welder) and possibly even Rack and Ruin.
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That0neguy
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« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2005, 11:30:44 pm »

I would try to basically go for the mirror match and go except add in rack and ruins or some form of artifact hate and maby cut some lock componets.
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Negator131
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« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2005, 01:27:20 pm »

Basically, any deck with lots of early creature removal should work relatively well. White Weenie with splash colors works really well for this. For instance, with WW/r you get access to 4 Swords to Plowshares, 4 Lightning Bolt, 4 Magma Jet and 4 Disenchant. Sooooo good against Welder and Metalworker. Also, with that strategy, you get another contingency plan for Metalworker in Whipcorder (tap him on the artifact player's upkeep), which is also a wonderful creature for casual in general.
Also, Devout Witness finds a home in this sort of strategy as well.

One solid weapon this deck has against the mana denial of Sundering Titan, should the worst come to pass, is Land Tax. It smooths your multi-colored manabase, and digs you out of a hole when the Titan comes into play.

I actually have a build of this deck lying around, though it splashes blue.

// Mana
6 Plains
2 Mountain
1 Island
3 Ancient Den
1 Great Furnace
1 Seat of the Synod
R Chrome Mox
R Mox Diamond
R Mana Vault
R Sol Ring
R Grim Monolith

//Creatures
1 Ramosian Sergeant
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Whipcorder
4 Raise the Alarm
3 Exalted Angel
1 Darksteel Colossus

//Artifacts/Enchantments
4 Land Tax
4 Skullclamp
3 Empyreal Plate
1 Zuran Orb

//9 Removal Slots
4 Shrapnel Blast
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Disenchant

(In your case probably more like:
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Disenchant
2 Magma Jet)

//Broken
R Balance
R Mystical Tutor
R Tinker

In general, this deck is quite solid against most things because of two factors: its total customizability, and its good answers against most of the field of multiplayer decks.
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Valdner
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« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2005, 12:50:56 am »

If you go with Green, Ground Seal works well too.
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warble
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« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2005, 11:23:02 am »

The strongest decks in an unpowered archetype are most likely:

Goblins/FCG
Oshawa Stompy
Red/Green Aggro
Affinity
Landstill
Monoblack
BURN
Unpowered keeper variants.

That being said, the easiest way to hose this guy is with a goblin deck.  If you have never seen a lackey in an unpowered environment, you need to test it.  The main idea behind these decks is that they all sport some sort of mana acceleration (Lackey, Elvish Spirit Guide, Fireblast, Affinity, Standstill, Dark Ritual) thereby putting your speed above your opponents.

If you didn't notice, your opponent is playing a very reliable mana source himself, namely metalworker.  Odds are you are losing mainly to metalworker and his secondary winter orb/Sundering Titan.  Your two options are

1) red variants and keeper, and black, all of which can remove his metalworker/welder and

2) Stompy/Affinity which will outrace him because his minimal disruption to your creature base should serve him a turn 3-4 loss pretty consistently.  

In either case, you won't find it hard to beat an unpowered deck mainly because these decks have been constructed and tuned to run NULL Rod, meaning they find alternate acceleration methods.

Additionally, you have the option of Landstill which will counter the early metalworker with Force, and odds are because your opponent is not running any other acceleration you will be in great shape to run him over easily while countering late spells (leave your mana open because you can't handle a winter orb drop) The only problem here is the goblin welder, so Landstill is actually not the best match here mainly because of the welder/titan 3-turn clock your opponent will likely put you on against Landstill.

As a long-time player in unpowered meta ( I love playing unpowered as well as powered ) my favorite decks are goblins, red/green aggro and monoblack.  The fact that unpowered monoblack can win on turn 2-3 because of the acceleration it runs is unbelievable, and the hymn/duress engine really annihilates any control that your opponent can have.  Additionally, because of unblockable creatures (I run shadow) you always have a very tight clock, and it is almost impossible to survive without creature control against monoblack (slaver obviously, but he's running aggro not slavery).  I'd say if I put money on any deck, it would be red/green aggro because of maindeck naturalize, fireblast, 2/3 for 1 drops, and a large enough portion of burn that your opponent won't get a metalworker OR a welder out against that deck.

So, I would really go for red/green aggro.  The main builds sport:

4x Kird Ape
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Incinerate
4x Kindle
4x Fireblast
4x Grim Lavamancer
4x Ghitu Slinger (against this opponent side this out and put in Flametongue Kavu)
2-4 Naturalize
0-4 Skyshroud Elite
0-4 Artifact Mutation (I mention this because it should be SB, and if you just want to completely annihilate your one opponent run them maindeck and watch him cry)
0-4 Werebear
2-4 Wasteland
Strip
15x Mountain
4x Taiga
1x Regrowth
0-4 Null Rod

As you can see, there's a bunch to change, but the basics are there.  Enjoy.
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P_f
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« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2005, 02:47:34 pm »

If you are playing a beatdown deck, winter orb and sphere of resistance can really put a dent in your capacity to play them out. Moreoever, an early titan is a huge roadblock towards your route to victory.

A heavy theme on artifact destruction is a fun way to annoying the crap out of this opponent, but you will probably die to everyone else. I suggest to take the best of both worlds, vial goblin, and see how it goes:

Roughly, the skeleton of the deck should look like:

4X Aether Vial
4X Goblin Lackey
4X Goblin Matron
4X Goblin Recruiter

Goblins lend itself comfortably to killing small creatures as well as destroying artifacts so you should go with some of these goblins:

Sparksmith
Goblin Incinerator
Keldon Vandals
Goblin Vandal

One of your 8 goblin tutors will allow you to get one of these cards reliably.

Then of course other very solid goblins like goblin warchief, siege-gang commander, and goblin ringleaders.

Or if you are a combo fan, you can always add green and play FCG.
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CCClark
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« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2005, 11:57:36 pm »

Horrid hosers work well just by adding them also.   Since the guy is playing oviously red and a pile of artifacts try some of the natural hosers for it.   Energy flux is hell on a Artifact heavy deck that can't get rid of it and if he's only got red, he's not going to short of running pyros.   

The welders and the metalworkers are the key to it so you need to target them first.   No matter what deck you put together make sure it can kill a first turn welder or metalworker pretty easily and you should be set.

Another old fashioned trick I still use to get around winter orb and Titan is a land called Undiscovered paradise.  It returns to your hand during your untap step letting you replay it untapped.  It also gets around the titan since it doesn't count as a Plains, mountain or what not.  Any color you like is a bonus. 

Playing your own Crucible of worlds drives these decks nuts also.   You can keep up w them.

As for a standardized deck I would go with Food chain goblins.  It's cheap to make and destroys people in an unpowered metagame. 
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