[Deck] Slaver USA

[Toad]

But what if the imprinted card is Abeyance, or Squelch, or Brainstorm?  It would be more like this in your example:
Turn 1: Cast scepter, imprint (-2)
Turn 2: use (-0) "one usage, and a cantrip"
Turn 3: use (+2) "two usage, two cantrips"
Turn 4: use (+4) "three usage, three cantrips"

Even if you are Imprinting Brainstorm or Abeyance, you still need 3 Scepters activation to start generating card advantage.

Scepter + Imprint = -2 cards.
First activation (cantrip) = +1 card.
Second activation (cantrip) = +1 card.

With two activations, you are back to your original point, after having wasted 6 mana. 6 mana is a lot in T1. For 6 mana, you can, well, win the game.

Turn 1: Volcanic island, mox, Goblin welder
Turn 2: Island, at opponents EoT, cast thirst.  Draw 3, discard the scepter.  Activate welder and switch mox for scepter.  (no card loss), imprint mana drain (one card loss)
Turn 3: On your next single activation, you break even.  After that, it's positive.

Your logic is still flawed. On your first activation, by turn 3, you are still -1 card. You have lost a Mox and an imprinted card, and get a card from countering something with the imprinted Mana Drain. That's -1 card.

No matter how you keep tweaking your deck, It will be BAD as long as you don't run 4 Brainstorms. Brainstorm is one of the most powerful unrestricted card, and is a no brainer 4 off in every single blue based Control deck.

[Eandori]

Your logic is still flawed. On your first activation, by turn 3, you are still -1 card. You have lost a Mox and an imprinted card, and get a card from countering something with the imprinted Mana Drain. That's -1 card.

No matter how you keep tweaking your deck, It will be BAD as long as you don't run 4 Brainstorms. Brainstorm is one of the most powerful unrestricted card, and is a no brainer 4 off in every single blue based Control deck.

No, the logic is NOT flawed.  If you have 3 permanents in play (2 lands and a mox) and you trade a mox for a scepter, that is STILL 3 permanents in play.  That is NOT card loss.  Just the same as Brainstorm does NOT give card advantage, just "hand quality."  The loss of a card is when the imprinting happens. After the first scepter use, that is back to "normal" card usage. 

You also leave out the possibility that the cantrip card negated something your opponent did.  In that same exact analogy you just gave, what if the imprinted card was squelch, and I you sac'd a search land and I squelched it?  You lose 1 card, I lose 0.  I gain 1 card, so BAM!   1 activation, 0 net loss.

For 6 mana you can win the game?  Um, no, that is a bit un-descriptive and untrue.  That's 2 mana spent 3 times, not 6 in one chunk.  First of all, those are very different things.  Statements like that are so general, they are meaningless.  "oh my opponent spent 8 mana this game, he should have won 2 land taps ago..."  That's like stating "you invested over 1k in the stock market, you should be RICH by now..."  What stocks?!?  How long?!?  What's the current situation!??

Brainstorm is a great card.  I do not deny it's powerfull use, especially in Type 1.  But I fear the type of mentality I see in Magic players today.  The typical player seems to have far less creativity and deck building skill, and instead focus's on ONLY playing winning net-decks or draft tournaments.  Others have said it, and I agree.  Magic is in dire need of more innovation and creativity.  It's good for the game! 

It's worth considering, that perhaps a given meta game produces only certain "good cards" because so many other cards are not being played.  In the current type 1 meta, there are quite a few cards that players think you are crazy for not using.  If you use any deck but the standard 10 popular builds, your labeled a fool by some.  While it's fun to be competitive, I think that type of stereotype is running this game towards a demise of the format.  As a whole, I think we should be more supportive of new decks, and different strategies.  If more decks rise, the meta could change, and currently "bad" cards can become good.  More variety is a good thing!!!

Off my soap box for now.

Yeah, Brainstorm is a great card.  I may indeed end up playing 4 of them.  But I'm going to try other options first.  Who knows, I may run across something great that barely gets used.  That's a good thing for the format overall

[Kowal]

Innovation is usually just a big word for sucking.  Speaking of sucking, suck it up and run the best cards you can run.  Brainstorm IS that good.

[Eandori]

I'm going to respond to myself here to elaborate something before others make posts disputing it.

But what if the imprinted card is Abeyance, or Squelch, or Brainstorm?  It would be more like this in your example:
Turn 1: Cast scepter, imprint (-2)
Turn 2: use (-0) "one usage, and a cantrip"
Turn 3: use (+2) "two usage, two cantrips"
Turn 4: use (+4) "three usage, three cantrips"
Situationally, a single usage of Abeyance is just as effective as Orim's chant.  So it's card for card like that, the cantrip gives you +1 card.  Same with Squelch to Stifle.  Same with Brainstorm to lesser cards that don't let you keep on in your hand.

Imprinting cantrip cards with a usefull effect recovers the initial loss from Scepter really well.

Cantrip cards are very much a way of gaining card advantage.  It's not directly always doing that, but they can.  For example,

-You sac a Strip Mine, I Stifle.  You lose 1 card, I lose 1 card.  1:1
-You sac a Strip Mine, I Squelch, You lose 1 card, I lose 0. 1:0

Card advantage simply means having more cards then your opponent.  You can achieve that by two methods.  Gaining more cards then him, or not losing as many.  1 Wrath of God killing 5 creatures is card advantage from massive loss.  Ancestral Recall is card advantage from gain.  A cantrip is card advantage gained through your opponents loss.  Assuming you went 1:1 in effect for his card.

This of course is different if the Stifle counters something that does not lose a card.  Like stifling the pump ability on a Shivan dragon.  That's card advantage for your opponent.  Where as Squelch would be no less, just mana spent, storm count increased, etc.

I chose Abeyance over Orims chant, and Squelch over Stifle for this very reason.  Adding scepters to my deck knocked out some draw slots, so I get back into the "gain card advantage" and "make up for innate scepter loss" arena by imprinting cantrip spells.  It seems to work really well actually.

Innovation is usually just a big word for sucking.  Speaking of sucking, suck it up and run the best cards you can run.  Brainstorm IS that good.

Innovation is what produced respect for cards like Brainstorm.  It came out what, 7 years ago?  How long did that card remain "under the radar" to many tournament decks?

Again, I may end up running 4 copies of it.  But I'm going to give other things a chance first and not just follow the herd.  You will probably be right and I will end up having 4 of them.  But every now and then, Innovation will provide something you didn't expect.

By the way, aren't you glad that Richard Garfield chose to "Innovate" and combine trading cards with strategy games?  How many people do you think told him "just make a card game where you buy the whole set."  Innovation is a funny thing, you hit and you miss.  But if you never try it, you never grow to new things.

[Kowal]

Harsh reality:  innovation that isn't synonomous with sucking is done by people way better than you.

[Toad]

No, the logic is NOT flawed.  If you have 3 permanents in play (2 lands and a mox) and you trade a mox for a scepter, that is STILL 3 permanents in play.  That is NOT card loss.

You turned a permanent that does something (a Mox, producing mana) for a permanent that does nothing (an Isochron Scepter). If you are casting Isochron Scepter and imprint something on it, you will need 3 activations to start gaining something from it. No matter what you are imprinting.

The typical player seems to have far less creativity and deck building skill, and instead focus's on ONLY playing winning net-decks or draft tournaments.  Others have said it, and I agree.  Magic is in dire need of more innovation and creativity.  It's good for the game!

There is a limit to innovation. This limit is when you start cutting good cards from good decks, and adding bad cards instead.

Innovation is what produced respect for cards like Brainstorm.  It came out what, 7 years ago?  How long did that card remain "under the radar" to many tournament decks?

It remained under the radar until Wizard printed something called fetchlands, in Onslaught. After Onslaught, every single blue based deck that could run Brainstorm has been doing it in every single format Brainstorm is legal. Extended (Control and Combo), Legacy (Control and Combo) and Vintage (Control and Combo). Not running Brainstorm in a deck that can support it is not innovation. It's a proof of poor deckbuilding skills.

[Eandori]

It remained under the radar until Wizard printed something called fetchlands, in Onslaught. After Onslaught, every single blue based deck that could run Brainstorm has been doing it in every single format Brainstorm is legal. Extended (Control and Combo), Legacy (Control and Combo) and Vintage (Control and Combo).

Actually that combo has been around since Thawing Glaciers + Brainstorm, which was Alliances, right after Ice Age.  Search lands changed it a bit, but the combo was NOT original to Onslaught.

Not running Brainstorm in a deck that can support it is not innovation. It's a proof of poor deckbuilding skills.

Your statement is nothing more then a shot at me, since I already stated I realize the power of Brainstorm and I want to test with other things first.  It's too bad you take the conversation down to this level, being on "Team Meandeck" I had higher expectations of you.

Harsh reality:  innovation that isn't synonomous with sucking is done by people way better than you.

Your insult does not change my lifestyle, nor does it change my desire to do exactly what I'm doing.  It just shows that you are a shallow person willing to take a personal shot at somebody you don't even know.

You turned a permanent that does something (a Mox, producing mana) for a permanent that does nothing (an Isochron Scepter). If you are casting Isochron Scepter and imprint something on it, you will need 3 activations to start gaining something from it. No matter what you are imprinting.

Your statement is untrue, biased, and based on assumptions that are not the typical case.  We can break it down how you are wrong if you like, but it has already been done in this thread.

Is this what typical MTG players are like on these boards?    Too bad, sorry for the rest of you.

[warble]

Harsh reality: innovation that isn't synonomous with sucking is done by people way better than you.

Your insult does not change my lifestyle, nor does it change my desire to do exactly what I'm doing. It just shows that you are a shallow person willing to take a personal shot at somebody you don't even know.

Is this what typical MTG players are like on these boards? Too bad, sorry for the rest of you.

*snap* You hit the nail on the head.  Kowal PM'd me some shit talk recently too, because he just couldn't find a way to put it up on the boards.  Poor Kowal would get his ass kicked in a real fight so he likes to start ones online.  Don't worry, we like your attempts at innovation.  Don't let the assholes (Kowal) get to you.

Offensive language removed. You know better than to post flames like that. - Bram

As for Isochron scepter, the main reason it doesn't make decks is in something like 95% of the time you would prefer to have another of the imprinted card in your hand rather then the isochron.  Take, for example, mana drain.  Would it make a difference to your deck that runs blue mana to have two mana drains instead of mana drain + isochron in your hand?  The answer is yes, because 1) you can cast both mana drains at the same time and 2) You either waste a turn dropping the isochron and no longer having free mana to activate or you hold the drain that turn, use it, and then no longer can imprint mana drain on the isochron.  Add to that the fact that you're revealing what could be the pivotal mana drain (after a beefy drain it's hard NOT to win) and you have a perfect example of why isochron doesn't make the deck.

To reference the one deck that has played isochron very effectively, ancestral recall on a stick IS the best turn 1 play for a control deck.  Additionally, imprinting fire/ice on an isochron against a deck running utility creatures or weenies is a house in and of itself.  Should more then one isochron make a deck?  The answer is usually no, because not only is it a) conditional but it is b) not as strong as every broken card in your deck.  This means you're going to have to justify putting isochron in a deck over something half-broken.  Brainstorm is one example, but running 5 ancestral recalls in a deck is really, really powerful.  Another example would be mana leak, but again a first-turn counter is extremely powerful.  So, once you've come to grips with the fact that no deck can really support 4 isochron scepters, I believe your arguments for isochron scepter will merit a lot more attention from experienced deckbuilders.

[Eandori]

Cool post Warble, thanks a lot for taking the time to make it.

Yeah, that's true about the mana drain.  Another big thing you kinda hit on is losing the element of suprise that is really a big factor to counterspells.  I can slow my opponent down alot by putting drain on a stick, but there were probably times where I would rather he tried to cast that spell so I could jump out and counter it, then move on.

Well, adding the last 2 Brainstorms into the deck is pretty easy.  I would remove 1 Isochron and 1 Abeyance for the 2 Brainstorms.  That would leave 2 Isochrons and 2 Abeyance main deck.

One of the things I really liked about running 3 Isochrons in the main deck was I had a decent artifact to pitch most of the time when I cast Thirst.  On standard CS I noticed that I would often discard a mox/lotus/sol Ring/Citadel because I had no other decent artifact targets in my hand.  The 2 Slavers, 1 Pentavus, Angel, and Titan were in the standard build.  My deck has all that, but no Titan, and +3 Scepters.  So I had something I WANTED to discard more often then standard CS.

I really like Abeyance, but with less scepters, I desire less Abeyance.  I would probably end up using it more as a "suprise" factor on their upkeep with only 2 in deck, or Suprise on my turn allowing me to cast anything I want or bleed a counter proactively.

I try the 4 Brainstorm version with -1 Abeyance and -1 Scepter and see how it works.

Thanks again for your post Warble

[The Atog Lord]

Eandori,

Please please please don't let discouraging remarks from a few "higher ups" stop you from innovating. Despite what Toad may try to convince you of, innovation often requires doing something that looks awful to most "learned" folks. Because innovation requires outside the box thinking and that's exactly what the more entrenched members of a community are awful at. Master Tap took Burninator to a great top sixteen finish at Waterbury, and no one would have said that deck would work.

As I posted earlier, I don't agree with a number of things you are doing regarding the deck -- Brainstorm is a very strong card. But don't let that stop you -- if you just listen to people who say your ideas are bad, you'll never really know for sure. So, try them out and see how you do. When I first started talking about Control Slaver on these boards, I encountered a lot of flack too. And some useful suggestions. But I never let the fact that people were saying the deck was bad stop me from pursuing it, because I knew that it had potential.

It is a great feeling to win a tournament with a deck that people have told you isn't good.

[Joblin Velder]

It is a great feeling to win a tournament with a deck that people have told you isn't good.

I imagine its an even better feeling when they pick up the deck.

[Demonic Attorney]

I'm wondering why you people are still posting in this thread.  There comes a time when everyone must put up or shut up.  Either the deck generates results or it doesn't.  Harkening back to my post waaaay back on page one of this thread before it degenerated into a flamewar, if innovation helps you to do well in tournaments, you should stick with it.  If your innovation doesn't accomplish that for you, the only thing you're doing is keeping yourself from playing the best deck out there.

My advice:  If you are really this confident in the strength of your build, take it to a decently high-profile event advertised here, and post the results.  As a few other people have recently mentioned, that's the only argument in favor of a deck design that is beyond rebuttal.  As an added bonus, posting your tournament performance makes for less of a chance that your thread will spiral off into a limp-wristed slap-fest like what's happened here.  Nothing speaks louder than results, so make some, and end this foolishness.

[warble]

and if you really think you can play 4 isochron scepters, and you win, we will all play them WITH you.  We're copycats like that.

[Eandori]

You guys will have to be patient with me while I try to make it to tournaments.  The only local tournament here is bi-weekly, this weekend and my parents are visiting from California.  So I won't be able to play this until nearly 3 weeks from now in a tournament.  Big power tournaments are pretty rare in the Portland Oregon area.

I'll be able to post results from 1:1 games with friends playing net decks, but I know what you guys really want to see is the tournament results.  I'll get those as soon as I can.

SOMEBODY HELP ME GET VINTAGE GOING IN PORTLAND!!  PLEASE!!! lol!

[Freelancer]

If you download magic workstation I wouldn't mind testing with you.

I will probably be playing some form off fish or (if you ask nicely) TPS.

On innovation: Innovation is started when you think about god awful cards, and try them out. Than lightning strikes and you hit a card that isn't god awful, you design a deck around it and win a major tournament.
I think you need to design a deck around scepter instead off just putting it into a archetype. You seem to love the card, so it might turn up a interesting deck.


Aside: A while back you noted that people probably look up to me, well I doubt they do. I actually never won a big tournament (haven't attended one either) and the little tournaments I played in where all with awful decks. (although funny enough I always ended up coming in second or third)

[Eandori]

Yeah, I would love to play on MWS with any of you!  My parents are visitng my wife and I from Chico California this weeknd, but after next week I'll post some times I can be on MWS.  My name is Eandori there, same as here.

Talk to you guys soon,

[Eandori]

Just for completeness, here is the final decklist I'm playing now.

Spells 36
4   Goblin Welder
1   Yawgmoth's Will
2   Abeyance
2   Cunning Wish
4   Brainstorm
2   Mindslaver
1   Platinum Angel
1   Pentavus
2   Isochron Scepter
1   Burning Wish
1   Ancestral Recall
1   Tinker
1   Fact or Fiction
4   Thirst for Knowledge
4   Mana Drain
4   Force of Will
1   Intuition   

Mana Sources 25
2   Island
1   Plains
3   Tundra
3   Volcanic Island
1   Underground Sea
4   Flooded Strand
2   Darksteel Citadel
1   Tolarian Academy
1   Library of Alexandria
1   Black Lotus
1   Mox Sapphire
1   Mox Jet
1   Mox Ruby
1   Mox Emerald
1   Mox Pearl
1   Sol Ring
   
Sideboard
1   Tormod's Crypt
1   Moat
1   Triskelion
1   Timetwister
1   Time Walk
1   Balance
1   Death Grasp
1   Red Elemental Blast
1   Echoing Truth
2   Disenchant
1   Squelch
1   Stifle
2   Swords to Plowshares

[P_f]

Hey.

From my quick scan of some of your posts, it seems that the changes you are trying to make to slaver is adding abeyance and iso-scepter.

Might I tell you that scepter is a very mana intensive card in the world of spiketail hatchlings and dazes. Against a very tempo oriented deck (fish, bird, stax), you will have a lot of trouble trying to use the scepter.

There is other things at force against the scepter. Welders and Null Rods, both still very abundant right now.

And I haven't mentioned Oxidize and Rack and Ruin, other miscellanous artifact hates, and even the occasional chain of vapors or echoing truth.

Also, While scepter generates long term card advantage, you won't get card advantage unless you activate it 3 times (I believe toad said that).

The first activation, your imprint replaces itself but doesn't replace iso.

The 2nd activation, it will replace the scepter, but thats hardly relevant because your still not generating card advantage here.

However, if your opponent spends a card to deal with the scepter after you activate it twice or leave it alone, then you will rack up card advantage. In the current Vintage state, you will not very likely have enough time to use the scepter to this scope of effectiveness. Someone will either win the game before then or some kind of disruption will be played to negate the scepter before it does anything good.

I really don't like abeyance either. There is a potential to imprint it on a scepter, but by itself, its a bad card. I would much rather cast a duress and nab my opponent's best card instead. Duress is overall just more useful.

I think your changes makes the deck only slightly more powerful but also a little more random and a little less consistent than traiditional slaver. This slight power increase isn't a major boost either considering drainslaver is already playing a lot of the most powerful cards and its win condition is one of the most powerful win condition you can play with.

[Eandori]

Hey P_F,  Thanks for reading the thread and posting.

You really should take the time to read the full thread.  Each of the points you brought up were already discussed.  Specifically, the scepters do not always require 3 activations before they net you card advantage.  It depends on how they came into play, and what you imprint on them.  Mainly, this deck does not rely on scepter, there are only 2 in the deck.  Again, please read the full post.  LOTS of comments have already been made on the scepters.

Abeyance versus Duress is entirely situational.  Both of them have the potential to be superior in given situations and what I have found is that Abeyance wins counter-wars, shuts down combos, and allows me to set up whatever I feel like on my turn.  Consider for a moment, Abeyance on a scepter cast during my upkeep.  I can cast anything I want with no retaliation, my opponent cannot play effects on my EoT step.  That forces him to blast his card draw, etc. during his turn and keep his mana tapped.  Duress can indeed pull that one card my opponent needs and show me his hand.  Duress is super, but Duress does not do what Abeyance does.

I understand your observation on how my changes make Slaver USA different from the tradtional CS.  Let me give you my perspective after playing the deck for awhile.  Any match-up that was hard for traditional CS can still be hard for Slaver USA.  Once CS gets behind, the game can often be over.  Once my deck gets behind, it can still get the specific "answers" it needs to get back into the competition.  Neither CS or my USA have as many counter magic as Oath, Tog, etc.  But my ability to deal with stuff after it gets into play is another way of dealing with that.

I'm hoping to go to a power tournament this weekend up in Mount Vernon, Washington.  Hopefully if I can get up there I can try the deck in a big tournament and report it's results.

[P_f]

I totally understand your arguments (and I was too lazy to read 3 pages of CS stuff, sorry ).

I too believe scepter is and has always been a potentially powerful card. The emphasize, however, is on potentially. The card is actually pretty hard to disrupt and you usually want to have 4 mana before you cast a scepter. This means more often, iso can't come online until turn 2 or 3. And if you do that on turn 2 or 3, you're not casting a draw spell, which CS does best during those early turns. Of course, you can say thats why you are running 2 instead of 3 or 4. But then you still have to deal with the fact that iso is easy to deal with. a permanent based disruption usually renders the scepter useless unless, of course, you stop it.

I'm not trashtalking the scepter though, I just don't like it because I see too many situations where I wouldn't want it. But if you can secure it, its a total wrecking ball.

Abeyance  is only functionally the same as duress n the context of counter wars and resolving your own spells, for other situations, they are pretty much entirely different. However, the cantrip for abeyance is next to irrelvant as the card quality advantage duress generates is far superior. Abeyance is only good narrowly (it stops combo, will, and other set up turns) while duress is generally always useful. Another big downside to abeyance is that its white. If there's something in your primary color that can already fill a certain role of a card in a color you're not using, its usually just better to stick with the primary color so you don't weaken your mana base.

I'm not really trying to dissuade you from playing the build you have in mind, just some food for thought on my opinions for those 2 cards.

Also, small nitpick, CS is notorious for getting out of bad situations. Time Walk to make welder active, tinker, thirst, plat, will, intuition, these all get you back into the game.

[Eandori]

Hey there again,

I have still not made it to any big tournaments with this deck.  But mainly because PORTLAND, OREGON DOES NOT HAVE ANY!  Stupid East coast!

Anyways, I have been testing the deck out against Meandeck Oath, Psychatog, Dragon, Stax, and lots of custom built type 1 decks that are not your standard internet deckbuild.  The deck is remaining VERY Strong, and I have edited the sideboard and deck a bit more.  Not much in the deck, mainly in the sideboard.  I think the toughest matchup so far is Stax, but Dragon and Oath can both win if they get the right draw.  Here is the current deck list:


Spells 36
4   Goblin Welder
1   Yawgmoth's Will
2   Abeyance
2   Cunning Wish
4   Brainstorm
2   Mindslaver
1   Platinum Angel
1   Pentavus
2   Isochron Scepter
1   Burning Wish
1   Ancestral Recall
1   Tinker
1   Fact or Fiction
4   Thirst for Knowledge
4   Mana Drain
4   Force of Will
1   Intuition   

Mana Sources 25
2   Island
3   Tundra
3   Volcanic Island
1   Underground Sea
4   Flooded Strand
3   Darksteel Citadel
1   Tolarian Academy
1   Library of Alexandria
1   Black Lotus
1   Mox Sapphire
1   Mox Jet
1   Mox Ruby
1   Mox Emerald
1   Mox Pearl
1   Sol Ring
   
Sideboard
2   Tormod's Crypt
1   Moat
1   Triskelion
1   Timetwister
1   Time Walk
1   Balance
1   Red Elemental Blast
1   Reality Ripple
2   Disenchant
1   Squelch
1   Stifle
2   Swords to Plowshares

The Reality Ripple was added to help deal with Stax, and many other situations.  Phasing out a Smokestack with several counters on it during my upkeep is just awesome.  Or phasing out so many other permanents to mess up combo, deny mana, etc.  I was iffy about trying this card, but it has really proven to be usefull, especially on the scepter.

I added a second Tormod's Crypt, to help deal with Dragon, Slaver, Tog, etc.  Hopefully SOMEBODY in the Portland area will set up a power tournament so I can test this bad boy out finally in something bigger then 1:1 match up's with friends playing the Internet Archtypes.

[Ben Kossman]

You should play Orim's Chant in the side if you're going to play scepter. Abeyance is cool but it can't take away someone's entire main phase.

[Moxlotus]

Is there a reason that Demonic Tutor and Time Walk are not in the deck?

Also Burning and Cunning Wish really screws up your SB.  I'd like to see how you board against blue based control decks.  I honestly have no idea how you can handle the mirror match with 1 REB and 0 Fire/Ice and 0 Lava Dart. 

Also how do you side against combo decks?  You have 1 REB, 0 SoR, 0 Arcane Lab.

[crazynlazy]

your side board is very weird I mean timewalk? and please please take out disenchant, that card is not as good as other cards that could be there. IMO the good CS SB core cards are:
3 arcane lab
1 triskelion/lava dart
3 reb
I have never tested SoR against combo but anything to slow it down will help so:
2-3 SoR
anything else is based on your meta unless I missed something big which i probably did.

[SonataOfTheCathedral]

What do you need a Moat for? It is a four mana White Enchantment. Is there a reason for this? Even FCG will Sharpshooter you to death if you decide to mope around this card.

This deck looks far too inconsistent as well. And why do you not have Demonic Tutor and Time Walk in the maindeck?

[Eandori]

Many of these questions are specifically talked about earlier in the thread.  Like Time Walk in SB, no Tutor, why disenchant, etc.

How do I sideboard against combo?  Other decks?  Well that depends entirely on which deck you are talking about, right?  So which deck are you talking about?

Yes I have "weakened" the sideboard with wishes, but at the gain of strengthening the deck.  It's not a one way tradeoff and so far I like it.  Wishing for answers, threats, etc. works well and has been successfully done in other decks too.  (Tog).

I'll respond more later when I have time.

[Moxlotus]

How do I sideboard against combo?  Other decks?  Well that depends entirely on which deck you are talking about, right?  So which deck are you talking about?

I would say the ones that I mentioned-CS, storm combo, other bluebased control like Gifts.

Also Time Walk in the board costs 2RU, at which point Time Warp is almost as good.

Tog also runs 4 wishes, the same kind of wishes.

I still have no idea how you justify not running Demonic.  Tutors that find cards that win are generally considered pretty good.

[crazynlazy]

Yes I have "weakened" the sideboard with wishes, but at the gain of strengthening the deck.  It's not a one way tradeoff and so far I like it.  Wishing for answers, threats, etc. works well and has been successfully done in other decks too.  (Tog).

putting 3 wishes in the deck is not strengthening it. at least put timewalk maindeck there is not point in putting it in the sideboard. why abeyance? reality ripple is horrible, just don't run it. R&R is much better against workshop decks. I would consider cutting the intuition too because you have 61 cards (making it more inconsistent) and you are already running a bunch of 1 of's. Put a mystical tutor in that will make the deck more consistent and it will be easier to find a good scepter imprint.

[Eandori]

One of the reasons I can run without Demonic Tutor is because of Intuition, it allows me to go fetch a win condition that can be hardcast or welded out of the graveyard.  My most typical fetch with Intuition is (Pentavus, Platinum Angel, Mindslaver) or something similar to that.  If I have a welder in play and 1 artifact, casting Intuition on my opponent's EoT normally wins me the game.  That's not coming out

I agree that Mystical Tutor can be usefull to find that needed card, but that was the SPECIFIC question I was working on during my early testing of the deck.  I was worried about the lack of tutors until the Intuition went maindeck.  That seemed to solve that issue.

About the Timewalk, you guys are very stuck on having that main board.  With Slaver, an early Time walk does NOT often gain me an advantage.  In fact, it's sorcery trait taps 2 of my mana that if countered leaves me exposed since my opponent can cast what he wants.  The simple cantrip of Time walk in early game usually does not end up being worth it.  I discoverd that mid-late game time walks is what I wanted.  On that note, wishing for a time walk and casting it is MUCH easier mid-late game.

I wanted the Burning Wish main deck, and Timetwister, Balance, Time Walk in the SB because it keeps my deck thin and efficient by not taking up more slots for possibly dead cards like Balance.  Balance is THE MOST powerfull white card in the game, but it's VERY situational.  In the sideboard backed up by a wish, it's a power house.  In the main deck, it's often a dead card unless I'm losing already.  Most of the time, when I cast the burning wish I end up grabbing the Time walk.  But when that happens, I'm forced to ask myself "did the extra 2 mana spent really hurt me?" the answer 95% of the time is "no."  So I lost nothing I cared about and saved myself a card slot.  Other times, if I'm losing and I draw the wish, I can grab my Timetwister or Balance and put myself back into the game.  A time walk would have just cantripped and not helped me get back into the running.

In a nuttshell, I looked at when Time Walk was the most usefull for me, and in those situations getting the walk from a wish did not really effect it.  But at the same time, I gained the ability to pull myself out of a hole if I was in one.

Finally,

Having 3 wishes (2 cunning, 1 burning) makes sideboard MUCH easier.  Once I know what i'm playing against, I just pull out the wishes and add the ones I'm sure will help the most.  The wishes typically fill the slot of "answers" in my deck.  So replacing a wish for the specific answer I already know I want does NOT change the engine of the deck, and makes my "answering" that much faster. 

I'll have another reply soon stating how I sideboard against those decks you mentioned.  I'm doing this at work between meetings and don't have a ton of time.

"R&R is much better against workshop decks."  Sorry, what card are you referring to with R&R?

[warble]

Rack and Ruin.

Instant speed, takes out 2 artifacts.

Time walk is restricted and called one of the "power 9" for a reason.  Maindecked time walk is so good I can't begin to describe it.  Just run it!  Nobody's going to counter a turn 1 time walk.  Dude that's MAD card disadvantage.

Still interested in tourney results with red/white/blue slaver.