[Premium] Revisiting Oath

[Jacob Orlove]

Revisiting Oath
By Stephen Menendian

There is something of a failure of imagination when it comes to Oath lists. Dr. Sylvan wrote a revealing article where he found that nearly all the Oath lists were merely variants of the Meandeck mold. The boldest move I've seen is one that we considered at the outset and promptly rejected: the addition of Black. There appeared to be little or no thought as to how to beat Platinum Angel and the hate that was present. Simply put, your maindeck must have some solution to Platinum Angel. In this article, I'm going to show you some alternate Oath configurations that we have been testing and report on our conclusions.

[Dr. Sylvan]

At one point Steve says that a resolved Chalice for one is practically game against TPS, but I'm not sure why he thinks so. It may slow them somewhat, but they have plenty of answers that feed the overall gameplan, typically including maindeck Rebuild(s) and Cunning Wish for other bounce. It's even less of a sure thing postboard, because they have Tinker for Colossus---bigger than the biggest Oath man. I wouldn't feel at all secure sitting behind Chalice for one, just somewhat better than in its absence.

Do those of you who are TPS players feel devastated when you sit across from it?

[rvs]

Do those of you who are TPS players feel devastated when you sit across from it?

No, you are correct Pip. HOWever, if you have a Chalice for 1, you have bought yourself enough time to setup an effective counterwall against TPS. When I was playing/testing my Chalice Blue list I played numerous games against TPS. The key is obviously to just stall them out so that your mass of counters gives them no window to break through. This is where Chalice=1 steps in, since they will still need to somehow get rid of it in order to win (to be fair, in about 90% of the cases this is true). I think Steve just didn't articulate well enough how Chalice=1 beats TPS in that particular sentence, but if you take the rest of his explenations throughout the article into account, I think he explained this very well.

@Steve, assuming he still occasionally browses this site: I think you did a marvelous job in providing the basis for the archetype.

[BigMac]

I played TPS a whole lot and as chalice for 1 is difficult it can be beaten.
First because of the bounce spells ye have yourself. Next to that you have FoW and duress, so it should be played turn 1 to have the real effect or it could be duressed out.

As i am not a premium member i am unsure if chalice was maindecked. But i assume it was (opposed to the monoblue deck rvs was talking about) a sideboard card. Assuming this is right oath has a hard first match, better 2nd match, and a third match (if it gets that far) where a duress could be the start of the TPS player.
Assuming chalice is maindeck it comes down to who starts, so the die roll.

As a TPS player i can also say i have 2 main deck orchards and side board 2 orchards for just this matchup. I am not regular this way but i can make my deck go oath as well after boarding. (latest version)

So all in all i think TPS still has a somewhat favourable matchup against oath.

[Mykeatog]

Didn't somebody come up with putting daze into oath to go all over combo's face?

[Klep]

Arcane Lab is probably a much better choice for Oath to deal with combo.  Oath has a large enough counter base that it can probably get through the 1 turn or so it needs to drop the Lab, and from there on the Oath player just has to be careful about what spells he plays and when.  I imagine the ideal combo game would be turn 1 Oath with Force in hand, and turn 2 Lab.  Once Lab hits, the combo player is frozen until he can deal with it.  Daze can't ever really do much more than slow the opponent down, as you're rarely going to have the chance to shut them down with it in the middle of going off.  Even then your tempo gains aren't that high because you have to bounce a land (unless you hardcast it, but at that point Leak is just better).

[JACO]

Didn't somebody come up with putting daze into oath to go all over combo's face?

Yeah, that was me. Force + Mana Drain + Duress + Daze + Misdirection all MAINdecked make it difficult for TPS to really go off before the quick Orchard+Oath kill puts them on a clock. After you add in Arcane Laboratory from the board, the DOA version of Oath that we designed seems to really be TPS' worst matchup that I've found in playtesting. Rebuild just does a wonderful job at bouncing artifacts, so if you're playing Oath and you drop an Arcane Laboratory, TPS really only has Chain of Vapor, and possibly a copy or two of Rushing River with which it can combat the Laboratory. I think you'll start to see TPS sideboarding multiple copies of Echoing Truth now also (for the people who haven't already), as that or Rushing River is the only realistic way to deal with multiple Labs on the table.

[forests failed you]

In my experience, I have found Chalice for one, (or even zero on the play to stunt an opponents Mana), to be an extremely effective way of fighting Tendrils based combo with Oath.  This is especially true if the Oath list runs Chalice of the Void in the maindeck, before an opponent has a chance to sideboard in solutions to obvious Combo hate strategy.  I've discovered in almost every tournament match up I've played with Chalice Oath that Combo has rolled at least game one to a resolved Chalice for one, because my opponent has to try and draw cards to find a solution; whereas I am able to draw cards and set up a counter wall to stop his Hurkyl's Recall or Rebuild. 
Aside from being absolute gold against Control Slaver, maindeck Chalice of the Void has proved to be a devastating turn one play against Gifts Belcher. Gifts tends to play even more Artifact acceleration than Slaver does, not to mention Chalice of the Void for Zero shuts off Moxen and Lotus from being replayed under a Yawgmoth's Will.  Usually, a Chalice of the Void plus a few well placed strip effects is disruption enough to allow the Oath player time to set up his or her combo and win; and, although it doesn't hinder combo as outright as Arcane Laboratory does, it still helps to slow Combo down enough, that an effective counter wall can be set up.  Most importantly, Oath's win condition only costs 1G, which is considerably less Mana than almost any other deck in the format.  Therefore, stopping Moxes and stunting Mana growth is far from symmetrical in almost any match up, because Oath benefits from it more than any other deck.  I think the fact that Chalice can be extremely tempo altering in these three key matchups should at least warrant Chalice of the Void's inclusion in most Oath of Druids lists.

[BigMac]

Just to clarify something. Chalice for 0 against TPS is not that hard to win over. First of all you can play the moxes but they are countered, still adding to you spellcount for the storm. If you have them in the graveyard and you are able to play will it will probably be of a dark ritual which you can play again together with you countered moxes that are in the graveyard adding to you spellcount even more whcih means you only need 3 lands in play, a ritual, will, and 3 moxes to get to a spellcount of 9 and still have mana for the tendrils. Hence, chalice for 0 is annoying but nowhere near devastating.

[forests failed you]

I was not saying that Chalice for Zero is a sure fire game over against TPS.  However, in many cases when Oath has the nut draw simply playing a Chalce for zero can slow your opponent down just enough to make you win.  I have found through extensive experience with the Chalice Oath list that many hands are good because of their ability to play the Mana Denial role just long enough to put lethal damage through.  On the play with a fast combo draw I would not hesitate to put down a Chalice for zero (especially beceause I don't know what my opponent is playing yet), and there is almost no doubt in my  mind that it would be good.  Also, Chalce for zero is good against TPS because it allows you to be even pickier about which spells you have to counter.  For instance, if you know that you only have to counter Dark Rituall to stunt TPS Mana production it makes the matchup much easier to play and predict. 

Cheers,
Brian