Hidden Laboratory

[Machinus]

I wanted to design a land that could help with draw/manipulation, but that wasn't broken like library. The first version is rather tame:

CARDNAME comes into play tapped.
Tap: Add 1 colorless mana to your mana pool.
Tap: Scry 2.

That seems ok but I'm not sure how interesting of a card it is. I like it though. The second version is cooler and more powerful.

Play with the top card of your library revealed.
Tap: Add 1 colorless mana to your mana pool.
Tap, Pay 1 life: You may play the top card of your library as if it were in your hand.

The drawbacks seem pretty weak, but playing with the top card revealed is significant. Also, in order to cast the spell that is revealed, you have to tap this land, effectively making all the spells you cast with it cost 1 more. The card doesn't get RFG since it is weaker if the cards you don't want to cast stay on top of your library, and in it. It would be too powerful if you could just get rid of them and then see your next card.

Any ideas?

Hidden Laboratory
Legendary Land
Play with the top card of your library revealed.
Tap: Add 1 colorless mana to your mana pool.
1, Tap: Put the top card of your library on the bottom of your library.

[Joblin Velder]

Scry 2 seems WAY powerful on this badboy.

[Matt]

Even at Scry 1 this would be a staple in like every deck.

[Jacob Orlove]

Compare it with Soldevi Excavations, which saw plenty of play in blue control decks as additional manipulation.

[Machinus]

Compare it with Soldevi Excavations, which saw plenty of play in blue control decks as additional manipulation.

Excavations is horrible because wasteland exists. I was wary of making a card that was too powerful, and I tried to make the ability harder to take advantage of with the second card. How about it modified like this:

Hidden Laboratory
Land
Play with the top card of your library revealed.
Tap, Pay 1 life: Add 1 colorless mana to your mana pool.
Tap: You may play the top card of your library as if it were in your hand.

One more aspect of this card - if it gets stripped in response to the second ability, you can't play the card since it isn't revealed any longer. A nice drawback I think, since the opponent can just watch all of your draws, and strip the land when you see something good.

[Nova442]

Power level concerns!  Isn't that one free card almost every turn, like once per turn future sight?  Stronger than Library because you don't have to have a full hand.  Just imagine 2 of these out drawing you a total of 3 cards per turn, uncounterable.

Even if that wasn't stronger than Library, most environments don't have wasteland to stop this and it would be auto 4 of anyway 

[Machinus]

It isn't necessarily stronger than library, because you have to tap the land to play the card, which means it can't ever be used to pay for the card, and you can't store up cards in your hand this way since you have to play them immediately. Any deck built with good tempo can compete with this card.

Perhaps there aren't enough drawbacks on this card anyway. What if I added CIPT?

[Necrologia]

Perhaps there aren't enough drawbacks on this card anyway. What if I added CIPT?

That's starting to get pretty close to the classic pit fall of "broken card with tons of random drawbacks tacked on" isn't it? If I were going to add any drawback at all I'd start with Legendary. This effect is certainly strong enough, and in the same way multiple libraries is just silly, multiples of this card seem like a no brainer. At the very least it'll have better flavor than CIPT which I've never really been able to understand from a flavor point of view anyway.

[Godder]

I think Scry 1 would be better than the other version. Mirage Block Tutors like that card very much. Even at Scry 1, though, I think Legendary would be appropriate.

[Jacob Orlove]

You could just do something like:

Legendary Land
T: add 1 to your mana pool.
1, T: Scry 1.

1 might be a little low for the mana cost, but it's a lot better than free.

I don't like the current version, though.

[Machinus]

What if I added an activation cost to the second ability? I like how playing with the top card revealed can be a drawback sometimes.

[Ephraim]

The way you could make the multiple abilities interesting is to give it the top-card-revealed ability, but instead of activating for the Future Sight ability, just have it activate to cycle the card to the bottom of your library (essentially Scry 1, but it could be worded differently, since you can already see the card.) That way, you get the good card-filtering, but also the penalty of your opponent getting to see the card.

Hidden Laboratory
Land

Play with the top card of your library revealed.
{T}: Add {1} to your mana pool.
{2}, {T}: Put the top card of your library on the bottom of your library.

[Machinus]

If it's going to be a scry ability, I think 2 is way too much to pay for it. Paying 1 and tapping for scry 1 means you are spending "2" mana to get rid of a bad card for a random card. I think the life loss can be safetly removed if you can't play the card from the top.

[Ephraim]

Oh -- if it's going to be a legendary land, I don't object to the activation cost being . Note that in the design I offered, the card was just a plain, old land, so you could still have multiple copies out. That's why I costed it at .

[Jacques]

This card reminds me of Darksteel Pendant, only in land form and with the ability to make mana.  At least most of its forms do.  You're simply reducing the cost by 2 and making it destructable.

[Machinus]

Any further objections? If not, I would like to start the clock on this.

[Ephraim]

I think Jacques' objection needs to be examined. I want to take a look at it, in any case, just to make sure. Functionally, the ability is very similar to that of Darksteel Pendant. However, as drawbacks, this isn't indestructible and it lets your opponent see every card you draw, and it occupies a land drop. As benefits, this can generate mana and costs less. Although in practice, I think this will behave more or less identically to Pendant, the subtle differences make strategies around this card a little bit different. I would say that it's different enough.

[Machinus]

This card is much different from pendant. First of all, pendant is a pretty bad card, whereas this is very powerful. The card's ability to double as both a mana source and library manipulation is invaluable, and is one of the primary reasons for the design of the card. To account for this power, this card reveals your draws, which can be a significant drawback, and costs life to use. Additionally, it is nonbasic and legendary, which makes it harder to keep on the board.

[Jacob Orlove]

This also effectively costs 2 mana to use, unlike pendant, because you have to give up the chance to tap it for mana.

[Machinus]

24 hour clock.

[Matt]

Closed and added.[/color]