[Article] SCG Daily 5/31

[Whatever Works]

I am getting extremely ennoyed with constantly hearing about this 15 minute brainstorm thing by smennen. Most people forget, but it was in the 5 turn process! There was no real time limit, and though a few people were getting anxious about the next round (that took a good half hour to fix pairings anyway) most people were having a good time trading or eating food.

Overall,

It was a very very good read that was insightful and enjoyable. I dont mind playing against kids as much as you do, but anything under the age of 15 I start to dislike intensly. I also hate having to explain the rules on cards. I boarded out Chains of Meph. vs. a 12 year olding playing Sensei Sensei only because I did not want to waste 10 minutes explaining how it worked to the kid (and I felt confident that I would win the match anyway and I did).

The major point I agree on that I think people have misinterpretted is the concept of not designing cards for T1. The reasoning behind this statement is that good cards always leak through the cracks. I would rather have the design team ask themselves (about the best cards in the set) is this card to broken in T1 not is this mediocre card able to be minipulated into a T1 staple??? T1 players will get 4x of what is good regardless and the focus should be on not creating another mind's desire instead of creating another CoTV.

Kyle L.

[Negator13]

I can't help but take offense to the statement about kids playing T1, mainly because I am 16 right now and only 15 when i got 3rd at the January Waterbury. Making such a blanketing generalization is pretty fucking bigoted, IMO. You should judge players by their playskill, not their age- there are plenty of < 18 year olds who play better and have a far better understanding of the game than many adults.

And if you feel so bad about losing to a "kid", maybe you should see a shrink about ego/insecurity issues.

[onelovemachine]

And if you feel so bad about losing to a "kid", maybe you should see a shrink about ego/insecurity issues.

Whoa!  Easy there fella.... I think you misunderstood the point of the whole discussion about kids in type one.  It's not that "kids" are a bad thing, but generally speaking kids refer to people who are like 10-14ish who bring goblin sligh to a competitive type one tournament and know nothing about type one cards or how to play the game on that level.  You obviously don't apply.  Steve said that type one should be marketed to an older crowd, and he's right.  How many 15 year olds, generally speaking, can afford the cards necessary to play type one?  Friday night magic is great for the kind of people who are fairly casual about the game.  More so than cost of cards, the issue is that type one is an *arguably more complex format than type two.  Younger players generally cause more disruption to my eight rounds of swiss based on their lack of knowledge than should be.

I am getting extremely ennoyed with constantly hearing about this 15 minute brainstorm thing by smennen. Most people forget, but it was in the 5 turn process! 

W/e works: you must obviously be confused; I was not intending that comment to be about anything that happened to you.  Fifteen minutes is an exaggeration, I'll come right out and say that, but the unnecessarily long brainstorms are perhaps the better term.  And that's in general, not specifically.

What kind of cards are destracting him exactly...?  Poker cards? Pokemon cards..?  Certainly not magic cards? 

See... by reading the rest of my statement you would understand what I actually said.  Ahh....  this is why you don't just skim through the posts.

  I nice way to bring you upto pace on this thread is another great point...
 

Good follow up statement though, makes me think you did grasp things after all...........

Listen Josh, I love you man, but the first time I ever heard the term "Fifteen minute brainstorm" they were not talking about Steve M.
 

Ben, you are harassing me and attempting to get a rise outta me.  I hear there's a thread somewhere that talks about how you were drinking whiskey out of someone's belly-button.  And when I find it, I'm gonna get beligerently drunk and march out to Waterford and kick your ass, and maybe playtest.

[Negator13]

And if you feel so bad about losing to a "kid", maybe you should see a shrink about ego/insecurity issues.

Whoa!  Easy there fella.... I think you misunderstood the point of the whole discussion about kids in type one.  It's not that "kids" are a bad thing, but generally speaking kids refer to people who are like 10-14ish who bring goblin sligh to a competitive type one tournament and know nothing about type one cards or how to play the game on that level.  You obviously don't apply.  Steve said that type one should be marketed to an older crowd, and he's right.  How many 15 year olds, generally speaking, can afford the cards necessary to play type one?  Friday night magic is great for the kind of people who are fairly casual about the game.  More so than cost of cards, the issue is that type one is an *arguably more complex format than type two.  Younger players generally cause more disruption to my eight rounds of swiss based on their lack of knowledge than should be.

I think people are forgetting that Magic: the Gathering is a game. A Trading Card Game. Tournaments are open to everyone, and damn well should be. I don't know why the hell you would be upset about playing against a kid with Goblin Sligh, I thought people generally appreciated byes... and if you lose, well maybe the kid isn't such a scrub you thought him to be, maybe he just doesnt have the money/resources to play a more competetive deck.

[Methuselahn]

Apparently Steve could have been more clear regarding his opinions of adults, kids, and everyone in between in the context of MtG as it seems the issue has been raised multiple times on multiple website forum boards.  Although I do think he is evil incarnate, I don't think he hates kids.  

 I personally don't think you can do anything or expect anything that will change the type of player that shows up to tournies.  You have to take the old with the young.  Having to deal with other people's inexperience (usually seen in the younger folk) is part of the deal.  If you are going to enter a tournament, be prepared to deal with younglings.  Yes, I said younglings.  Whether or not kids are able to afford power/type 1 cards is irrelevant.  Whether or not they are good players is also irrelevant.  What is relevant is if they paid the entrance fee or not.

[Revvik]

I DID feel pretty bad about taking my fully-powered 'Tog against a 13 year old kid who had no idea what type 1 was about.  It wasn't the whole "getting beat by a kid and damaging my ego," it was "I'm gonna play Yawgmoth's Will here in a second and this kid is going to wonder why he even came."

I got into the format when I was 18, and I still feel a little young compared to some of the "dinosaurs" I've run into at tournaments.  No joke this is a more mature person's format - I'm just glad I've stuck with it this far, I'm now one of the people loaning Power out instead of trying to reach a proxy limit.

I agreed with pretty much everything mentioned here except for the teams - I think many major teams would be really cool  .

Paying an entrance fee shouldn't matter one damn bit.  What should matter is "are the younger ones in this because they played Magic before and thought 'Neato, tournament' or are they going to show the same passion that we show, that I've grown to show in my two years playing?"  I think that is what has made this come this far.

[Mixing Mike]

Personally, I do agree that Vintage needs to be marketed towards adults more so than children.  I agree because a child will believe whoever they trust the most, and not find anything out for themselves.  Nor will they probably reflect on game wins/losses.

That being said I like to see younger kids around (in general at M:TG events).  I treat them better than I treat some of the people I know from seeing weekly at events who are in their late teens/early twenties.  I do this because winning is not what makes the young ones come back to pay another entry fee, it's how they feel about people who have helped them (or mocked them) with their crappy little deck when their parents make them leave.