Illusive power

[Freelancer]

Oh my god I got power in my brains and my mind. Help me get it out into real cardboard.

Some questions to the TMD community:

1) I am a aggro/control player at heart, should I first purchase ancestral recall or time walk? (or maybe even a lotus instead of those two)
2) What is the best place I can acquire power safely and for reasonable prizes?
3) What is the lowest prize I can expect to get, and what is a general accepted huge prize?
4) Pointers to spotting fakes, need tips and tricks. I'm a little scared to damage whatever power I am planning to buy with a bendtest. So where should I look at?

Well thats quite a lot of questions, so for now I don't have any others.

[Revvik]

1) Time Walk would be a good bet.  Cheaper than Ancestral, at the least, and usable in every deck running  .  Oh wait, same could be said about Ancestral Recall 
Why buy the Lotus now?  Wouldn't spending the same amount of money on 2-3 other pieces be better?

My first piece was the Walk, over a year ago, and it hasn't left my decks since.

2) Best, safest?  Do you have any friends willing to sell theirs?
Having never bought any power off eBay myself, I'm not entirely sure about this one.  Retail stores will charge you pretty heftily for something like that, if they have them.
http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=12082
This might seem a little high, but considerably more secure than eBay.  I did spend $300 on mine, and I can't say it was in much better shape.
I think this answers 3) enough as well.

4) Fakes are a huge risk.  I would recommend buying in the company of someone who knows much, much more than you or I.  And never, ever bendtest a card before you buy it yourself - always ask the owner to do it (obviously).

[Tha Gunslinga]

MOTL T/A and Sales forum is your best bet.  Ebay is fairly safe as long as you pay with a credit card and are cautious.  Power isn't really difficult to get, at affordable prices, if you know what you're doing.

[kl0wn]

4) Pointers to spotting fakes, need tips and tricks. I'm a little scared to damage whatever power I am planning to buy with a bendtest. So where should I look at?

The bend test doesn't damage real power, it damages fake cards. If you're afraid of the bend test, then you shouldn't be buying power yet.

[rvs]

To question 1: get w/e you can if its a fair price.

Also, I found ebay to be reliable enough if you are not a moron. MOTL is always extremely overpriced on like, everything.

[Cab]

To question 1: get w/e you can if its a fair price.

Also, I found ebay to be reliable enough if you are not a moron. MOTL is always extremely overpriced on like, everything.

MOTL is overpriced if you buy from the idiotic dealers. Other than that, people actually sell their cards at what prices end at on ebay. Ebay is much harder to get a good price AND not get ripped becuase you will usually get a good price on low feedback people that could rip you.

Try MOTL, and if that doesn't work for you, then see if you can find a dealer that will sell it for relatively cheap.

[BurningIce]

eBay can work, but it requires a lot of patience.  Good deals will come up, but they might not come for months.  If you're not willing to wait that long, it's either going to be more expensive, or try somewhere else, like MOTL.

[Mykeatog]

I don't want to toot my own horn here, but I sell power relatively cheap - and I have an excellent reputation around these boards. PM ME if you are interested.

As far as where to get power goes here are my observations...

Ebay is better than it seems but still be cautious, there is no real way to be safe aside form paypal buyer protection.

MOTL isn't safe. If you have more ref's it is fine, but trading for power being new to motl is just asking to get completely destroyed. I know of a few 'evil' motl dealers and their antics.

Dealers - they may seem more expensive than the preceding, but you are paying for legitimacy, you get to see it, hold it, bend it before you buy it.

Floor Dealers - anyone at a show with a binder of power is just trying to fuck you for your money. Floor dealers have binders of power because of something internally called "free generation". Which means - they can get more out of you for the power because "after all - I am trading my type 2 cards for power". Don't let this happen to you there really isn't any point to sell your cards cheap to get a piece.

THINGS TO REMEMBER:

Bend Test is a great test. However, a card that has been tested more than 8 times will start to crease in the middle which may make it appear fake.

The best test is using an eyeglass, and having someone aroudn who knows. Everybody has a friend who knows, and if not look for the dealers that you recognize, or have a great reputation. Anyone who has the knowledge is often very happy to share.

If you don't want to bend it, and you don't have an eyeglass, then look for the blueline. Don't tear the card, just turn it on it's side and look for it.

Texture is the worst way to decide on the legitamacy of a card. Water damaged cards are still real - they jsut feel very awk. You shoudl be able to use this to get a discount.

Hope I was of some assistence.

[Freelancer]

To recap:
1) Time walk or recall first (probably gonna be recall, in MWS I always LOVED casting a recall )
2) MOTL is fine if you know your shit (which I don't so I will skip it)
3) Ebay is fine if you have the patience (which I don't have, not that I have the money to pay for a recall yet I just can't stand waiting for power when I do have the money)
4) A bend test is fine if the power is real (not fake) and if the dealer gives his consent.
5) Floor dealers are a not good for me. Bad floor dealers *slaps some floor dealers around the room*
6) Dealers are solid to buy power from
7) I am sending a PM to mykeatog for some more info, if all else fails (which knowing myself probably will ) I got a solid backup option.

Some additional questions:
1) Any idea's on how to convince my parents that buying power is a economical sound thing to do? (I can at least get my money back or something similar) I need to convince them because if I don't I will always get the look of 'you wasted your money you idiot' when I mention magic. And I hate that look. (I once bought a xbox game and lost it the same day, everytime I mention my xbox my mother gives me this look)
2) Mykeatog this is not meant to offend you in any way or form. Just making sure, I hope you understand. How trustworthy is mykeatog? If I buy power from him can I reasonably expect to get it? (my guts say I can trust him with my money, just making sure) Again take no offense it isn't meant like that, I just want to hear other people say it besides yourself.


PS thanks for all the great advice I am getting, this is probably going to be the biggest purchase in my life so far (besides getting my drivers license, damn thats expensive) so I'm really really carefull.

[ProZachar]

1) Any idea's on how to convince my parents that buying power is a economical sound thing to do? (I can at least get my money back or something similar) I need to convince them because if I don't I will always get the look of 'you wasted your money you idiot' when I mention magic. And I hate that look. (I once bought a xbox game and lost it the same day, everytime I mention my xbox my mother gives me this look)

I've been with my employer for 18 months.  During this time, I've put 5% of my salary into my 401(k).  It has grown 3%, tops.  Probably more like 1 or 2% (and I have an extremely aggressive, growth oriented portfolio at the moment).

For about a year (and ending with the paycheck 2 weeks ago, as we're about to get bought out) I've put 5% of my salary into our employee stock purchase plan.  Basically, we get to buy company stock at 15% below market value.  I bought about US$800 for about $10 a share.  I will be buying another $800ish at about $13 a share.  The company that's buying us is offering about $23 cash per share.  So this one's doubled my money, more or less.

If you hunt around and are willing to lock your money up for 3-5 years, you might be able to eek out a 4% APY in a certificate of deposit.

In the summer of 2003 I bought an Ancestral, Walk, and Ruby, paying about $180 for each.  Actually, I got the Ancestral for less than $150.  I bought 4 Drains just after Christmas 2003 for about $60 each.  I bought the rest of my power in the spring of 2004.  I paid about $600 for the Lotus, $330 for the Sapphire, $250 each for the Emerald and Pearl, and $275 for the Jet.  I know I at least doubled my money on the stuff I bought in summer 2k3.  I haven't kept track of the prices of the other stuff.  Plus, having cards to play with is infinitely more entertaining than some numbers on a Web page for your account.

Additionally, you "don't have to pay" taxes on capital gains for Magic cards.  Unless you have W connections you probably will in more traditional forms of investments.

So, that has been my investment experience with "typical" investments and Magic cards.  I would never have bought my power cards if I thought they would depreciate in value.  As always, your mileage may vary, and past success is not indicitave of future gain.

[Freelancer]

1) Any idea's on how to convince my parents that buying power is a economical sound thing to do? (I can at least get my money back or something similar) I need to convince them because if I don't I will always get the look of 'you wasted your money you idiot' when I mention magic. And I hate that look. (I once bought a xbox game and lost it the same day, everytime I mention my xbox my mother gives me this look)

I've been with my employer for 18 months.  During this time, I've put 5% of my salary into my 401(k).  It has grown 3%, tops.  Probably more like 1 or 2% (and I have an extremely aggressive, growth oriented portfolio at the moment).

For about a year (and ending with the paycheck 2 weeks ago, as we're about to get bought out) I've put 5% of my salary into our employee stock purchase plan.  Basically, we get to buy company stock at 15% below market value.  I bought about US$800 for about $10 a share.  I will be buying another $800ish at about $13 a share.  The company that's buying us is offering about $23 cash per share.  So this one's doubled my money, more or less.

If you hunt around and are willing to lock your money up for 3-5 years, you might be able to eek out a 4% APY in a certificate of deposit.

In the summer of 2003 I bought an Ancestral, Walk, and Ruby, paying about $180 for each.  Actually, I got the Ancestral for less than $150.  I bought 4 Drains just after Christmas 2003 for about $60 each.  I bought the rest of my power in the spring of 2004.  I paid about $600 for the Lotus, $330 for the Sapphire, $250 each for the Emerald and Pearl, and $275 for the Jet.  I know I at least doubled my money on the stuff I bought in summer 2k3.  I haven't kept track of the prices of the other stuff.  Plus, having cards to play with is infinitely more entertaining than some numbers on a Web page for your account.

Additionally, you "don't have to pay" taxes on capital gains for Magic cards.  Unless you have W connections you probably will in more traditional forms of investments.

So, that has been my investment experience with "typical" investments and Magic cards.  I would never have bought my power cards if I thought they would depreciate in value.  As always, your mileage may vary, and past success is not indicitave of future gain.

I have no idea what the hell you just said, but thats okay. I will try and explain to my parents that this is a good investment, and that collectable cards (or whatever collectable items) tend to stay at a steady value. And the whole doubling money over a couple of years will be good to. Thanks a lot for your reply.

[Machinus]

I might be sounding redundant here, but vintage staples are a really good investment. I have been collecting magic cards for something like 5 years now, and cards that I built playsets of a long time ago just because I could forsee play value in a particular environment, I have made a lot of money off (I'll get to power in a minute). I build sets of lame stuff like Orim's Chant and other crap that is horrible in Vintage, but that people now regularly pay $60+ for playsets of. Collecting old cards is a good idea for a lot of reasons, some obvious, others not. Something obvious would be that there are a limited number of older cards, yet the number of magic players is increasing. Combine that with the creation of new formats such as Legacy, and you can bet there are people making a lottt of money off magic cards. It takes time, however.

If you put in some time on eBay by tracking auctions, monitoring what cards go for and in what condition, that is one of the best ways to go. If you use paypal, they will protect any purchase less than $1000 USD. You have 30 days to file a complaint after the auction ends. So if you buy power over eBay with Paypal, you can take it to dealers or whoever you want, and figure out if it is real or not. If it isn't, Paypal will give you your money back and they will take it up with the seller. You have to pay attention though, a lot of people try to scam you, so just read everything before you bid on it, and follow all the auction and purchase rules (they are pretty simple). If you have patience, and get good at finding quality auctions, you can get great deals. Just a few months ago I got two moxes for less than $300 each. People work hard to earn high feedback ratings, so sellers with a few hundred feedback with a 99-100% are a good bet. It's hard to maintain a good rating (there are a lot of assholes on eBay) and you can check what people have bought and sold for the past 90 days. Highly rated sellers who deal in expensive cards would never intentionally sell a fake, and would prefer to refund you and get a positive feedback than to lower their rating and possibly get suspended. (People always talk about what you can get away with on eBay, but if you use the right channels like Paypal, it is pretty safe).

One last thing. I much prefer buying cards in real life, since I can hold them before I buy, and get the card as soon as I do. But if I waited to find people who would sell me a mox for less than $500 each, I would never get to play Vintage. Just be patient, and focus on ONE card at a time. Don't bid on the next one until you are satisfied with your last purchase.

Good luck.