White Utility

[asmoranomardicodais]

I've wanted these cards for such a long time its not funny. This has been decided as a white ability, and they did it as such on otherworldly journey, but they still haven't made it for permanents. So, without further ado, the white counterspell, in two versions:

I'm better than flicker
1W
Instant
Remove target creature from the game, and then put it back into play under its owner's control.


I'm better than flicker too!
WW
Instant
Remove target permanent from the game. At end of phase, put it back into play under its owner's control.


I want the first one for mystic snake, and the second is so flexible it could find its way into many a deck. What do you think?

I'm better than flicker
1W
Instant
Remove target non-token creature from the game, and then put it back into play under its owner's control.


I'm better than flicker too!
WW
Instant
Remove target permanent from the game. At end of phase, put it back into play under its owner's control.

[Matt]

Yeah that's what I want Flicker to be too. Make them say "nontoken" though, and get a current wording post.

[Shadow-Walker]

Why bother with non-token?  Otherworldy Journey doesn't have that restriction.

[Matt]

I think it's because with OJ, there's time in between when state-based effects are checked. With Flicker, there's not (you don't check SBEs in the middle of resolving a spell) so you actually have a token existing in a zone besides the in-play zone. I think it's some rules confusion like that.

[The Atog Lord]

Matt's right. This would let a Token leave and then actually return -- and that's very illegal.

[Shadow-Walker]

Ah, right.

[Jacob Orlove]

That second one should read "at end of turn", because that's how everyone will read it anyway.

[asmoranomardicodais]

I don't want it to be end of turn, I want to be able to use it on my Eternal Witness on my upkeep, and be able to use the card the witness ges back main phase. Or save a creature from a dark banishing on the opponents main phase and still be able to block. 

[Matt]

I don't think we need the second one at all.

[asmoranomardicodais]

But one of the reasons to have this card is to remove blockers, which the first one can't do. As well, I wanted to get permanents with this, not just creatures. 

[Norm4eva]

There's probably no Flicker for permanents because of stuff like Parallax Wave.  Being able to re-Tolarian Academy/Gaea's Cradle for WW is a touch questionable, even if I have to move phases to do it.  Also being able to reset the counters on Parallax Wave is pretty sweet when you couple the card with its other various applications.

[asmoranomardicodais]

I don't think you can reset the counters on Parallax Wave, just like you can't Flicker a spike drone and have it come back with counters. At least that's the way I hope it works (while still triggering comes into play effects, like Man-o-War and eternal witness). If it doesn't work that way, how can we word it so it does?

[Godder]

When a permanent leaves play, and later returns to play (excluding phasing), it's considered a new permanent i.e. would be untapped, and also triggers all leaves play and comes into play abilities, so a Parallax Wave would have five tokens, a Spike Weaver would have three tokens etc.

Making stuff happen at the end of main phases is bad, because you both pass, it triggers, resolves, and then it's the Main Phase with an empty stack i.e. not the end of the Phase at all.

At the beginning of the next Phase works, although then there might be problems with the Beginning Phase (i.e. Untap Step).

[Norm4eva]

Anytime something would happen during untap, it happens at the beginning of upkeep.  There's a rule for this somewhere but I don't recall the site to reference it, thought I had it bookmarked.
Doing the standard end of turn thing might make the second card less weird, but it's still untapping things that shouldn't untap for WW.  That's decidedly Blue, even though Flickering is White (but that's why it only does it to critters - they return to play with summoning sickness and so barring circumstance there's less opportunity for untapping tricks).  You could put a weird clause on it like "That permanent can't tap and its activated abilities can't be played until its controller's next upkeep" but that's wordy as hell.

[Shadow-Walker]

Or "into play tapped".