Tutor Lands (cycle)

[Odern420]

Ivory Cliffs
Legendary Land
comes into play tapped.
t: add W to your mana pool
WW, t: Sacrifice Ivory Cliffs to search your library for an enchantment card. Reveal that card and shuffle your library. Put the revealed card on top of your library.
--
Boulder Pasture
Legendary Land
comes into play tapped.
t: add one R to your mana pool.
1RR, t: Sacrifice Boulder Pasture to search your library for a sorcery card. Reveal that card and shuffle your library. Put the revealed card on top of your library.
--
Worldly Pond
Legendary Land
comes into play tapped.
t: add one G to your mana pool.
G, t: Sacrifice Worldly Pond to search your library for a creature card. Reveal that card and shuffle your library. Put the revealed card on top of your library.
--
Coral Barrier
Legendary Land
comes into play tapped.
t: add one U to your mana pool.
UU, t: Sacrifice Coral Barrier to search your library for an instant card. Reveal that card and shuffle your library. Put the revealed card on top of your library.
--
Unmarked Grave
Legendary Land
comes into play tapped.
t: add one B to your mana pool.
BB, pay 2 life, t: Search your library for any non-land card. Reveal that card and shuffle your library. Put the revealed card on top of your library.



I like the idea of these tutor lands because I am a child of type 1. Anything to make the game go faster and gain some sort of edge. I feel like making them come into play tapped is enough of a draw back along with them taking a land drop and also depleting your mana pool with the sacrifice. I feel they are well balanced but then again other people probably wont. So, let me know what you think. Also I'm new to Mana Drain, so if I have made some errors in my post please let me know so I can correct them.


Ivory Courtyard of Scholars
Legendary Land
comes into play tapped.
t: add W to your mana pool
WW, t: Remove all copies of Ivory Courtyard of Scholars in your hand and library from the game to search your library for an enchantment card. Reveal that card and shuffle your library. Put the revealed card on top of your library.
--
Cave of Unearthed Pain
Legendary Land
comes into play tapped.
t: add one R to your mana pool.
1RR, t: Remove all copies  Cave of Unearthed Pain in your hand and library from the game to search your library for a sorcery card. Reveal that card and shuffle your library. Put the revealed card on top of your library.
--
Worldly Pond of life.
Legendary Land
comes into play tapped.
t: add one G to your mana pool.
G, t: Remone all copies of Worldly Pond of Life in your hand and library from the game to search your library for a creature card. Reveal that card and shuffle your library. Put the revealed card on top of your library.
--
Coral of Knowledge
Legendary Land
comes into play tapped.
t: add one U to your mana pool.
UU, t: Remove all copies of Coral of Knowledge in your hand and library from the game to search your library for an instant card. Reveal that card and shuffle your library. Put the revealed card on top of your library.
--
Unmarked Grave of the Demonic Saint
Legendary Land
comes into play tapped.
t: add one B to your mana pool.
BB, pay 2 life, t: Remove all copies of Unmarked Grave of the Demonic Saint in your hand and library from the game to search your library for any non-land card. Reveal that card and shuffle your library. Put the revealed card on top of your library.



I agree with the flavor of the names, i hadnt thought of that so i did a little brain storming and changed them up....... also since i admit i made these cards to be restricted, I added "remove all copies" to balance them out..... seems far, cause you'll only get to use them once and then they are gone, but you can still run 4..... let me know what you think of these changes !




Ivory Courtyard of Scholars
Legendary Land
comes into play tapped.
t: add W to your mana pool
WW, t: Target Opponent removes all copies of Ivory Courtyard of Scholars in your hand and library from the game to search your library for an enchantment card. Reveal that card and shuffle your library. Put the revealed card on top of your library.
--
Cave of Unearthed Pain
Legendary Land
comes into play tapped.
t: add one R to your mana pool.
1RR, t:Target Opponent removes all copies  Cave of Unearthed Pain in your hand and library from the game to search your library for a sorcery card. Reveal that card and shuffle your library. Put the revealed card on top of your library.
--
Worldly Pond of life.
Legendary Land
comes into play tapped.
t: add one G to your mana pool.
G, t: Target Opponent removes all copies of Worldly Pond of Life in your hand and library from the game to search your library for a creature card. Reveal that card and shuffle your library. Put the revealed card on top of your library.
--
Coral of Knowledge
Legendary Land
comes into play tapped.
t: add one U to your mana pool.
UU, t:Target Opponent  removes all copies of Coral of Knowledge in your hand and library from the game to search your library for an instant card. Reveal that card and shuffle your library. Put the revealed card on top of your library.
--
Unmarked Grave of the Demonic Saint
Legendary Land
comes into play tapped.
t: add one B to your mana pool.
BB, pay 2 life, t:Target Opponent removes all copies of Unmarked Grave of the Demonic Saint in your hand and library from the game to search your library for any non-land card. Reveal that card and shuffle your library. Put the revealed card on top of your library.




yes, i know the wording is a bit choppy, but i'll change it once i see the response to these. I guess the only way to make these balanced and printable is to allow your opponent to go through your hand and library to remove them. Soooo here is Version 3.0 !

[Matt]

Hello, and welcome to the forums. Since you're new, you get cut some slack, but you should know that your post is nowhere near up to our standards. Please check out the rules, paying special attention to the sections about a current wording post and how you need to have some explanation of your idea accompanying the actual card. Tell us why you think this would be a good card to make, or how you came up with the idea, or maybe how you expect players to try and use it.

[Odern420]

24hr Clock......... so come on and take your shots....

[Matt]

No, you can't get a clock started with no discussion whatsoever.

[Aeneas]

These lands would blow Type II wide open.  The drawback of coming into play tapped hardly offsets the powerful ability granted by these lands, as is evidenced by the success of Bosejiu in Tooth and even Mono-Red.  Also, these lands being legendary is not nearly the drawback it would be for other lands, since in the case of multiple copies, the prior copies could be sacrificed for tremendous gain.  I could see control decks in Type II packing 3 or 4 copies of the appropriately colored lands in their decks.

[Odern420]

I agree with you to some level......... but (and this might be against the rules) i made these cards knowing they would get restricted if they ever saw print..... so, with that in mind, if they were restricted they would still be an awesome card and the tappign drawback would balance them dotn you think ? I mean it is hard to makea good tutor with out it gettign restricted..... sooooo..... i made a good one that is balanced when restricted

[Matt]

Yeah, we do really want to make cards that are printable. We don't have to tiptoe around the oldest formats - Vintage and Legacy - because the deep cardpools there mean that they can take care of themselves. If something is broken with Yawgmoth's Bargain, who cares - Bargain was broken anyway. But these lands are too good on their own. The legendaryness of them isn't really a drawback when you'd sacrificing them to use them.

Also, what advantage is there to these being lands? Why should lands help you find specific spells? I can see why a wise old sage might help you (Enlightened Tutor), or a demon could bring you perfect knowledge (for a price, i.e. Demonic Consultation), but what is there about a cliff that helps you know what spells to cast? These abilities just don't seem to make much sense on a land.

[asmoranomardicodais]

I agree with Matt's flavor issues with this cycle, but to make these fair, here is my suggestion:

Name, Mother Tree of Yavimaya
Land
~This~ comes into play tapped.
Tap: Add one colorless mana to your mana pool.
GG, Tap, Sacrifice ~this~: Reveal cards off the top of your library until you reveal a creature card. Put that card on top of your library and remove the rest from the game.

For the black one, you'd have to do it this way:

Nevinryrral's Tomb
Land
~this~ comes into play tapped.
Tap: Add one colorless mana to your mana pool.
BB, Tap, Sacrifice ~this~: Name a card. Reveal cards of the top of your library until you reveal the named card. Put that card on top of your library, and remove the rest from the game. You lose life equal to the amount of cards revealed in this way.

Does anyone else like the sacred guide/demonic consultation/spoils of the vault angle?

[Odern420]

Hmmmmm good idea, i think i'll work on some changes.....

[Matt]

Sacred Guide is awesome, the black ones not so much.

[Norm4eva]

'Removing copies' isn't a very good way of doing things.  If you're searching your library you can just choose to miss the rest of them.  I think as long as these are CIPT and mimic Worldly/Enlightened/Vampiric etc they aren't broken.

[MrZuccinniHead]

the names feel too long.  Even for ChK standards.

[Odern420]

'Removing copies' isn't a very good way of doing things. If you're searching your library you can just choose to miss the rest of them.

That wouldnt make sense........ if you use one, and dont remove the rest, you'll lose the game when you play another one, i think i would realize it if you tried to play it twice..... also why wouldnt yuo want to remove them if you cant play them? they would just be taking up space? there is no need for extra cards uin your deck if you cant play them.

[asmoranomardicodais]

'Removing copies' isn't a very good way of doing things.  If you're searching your library you can just choose to miss the rest of them.  I think as long as these are CIPT and mimic Worldly/Enlightened/Vampiric etc they aren't broken.

What are you talking about? "Removing Copies"? Are you talking about my version of the card? I was basing those off demonic consultation, removing cards of the top of the library.

[Matt]

That wouldnt make sense........ if you use one, and dont remove the rest, you'll lose the game when you play another one, i think i would realize it if you tried to play it twice..... also why wouldnt yuo want to remove them if you cant play them? they would just be taking up space? there is no need for extra cards uin your deck if you cant play them.

No, I think you misunderstand. When a card's effect asks you to search a hidden zone (like the library) for a card or cards matching a specific criterion, you can simply choose not to find them even if they're there (this doesn't work for a card like Demonic Tutor, because it just asks for any card with no criterion to match).

From the comprehensive rules:

Search
If you're required to search a zone not revealed to all players for cards of a given quality, such as type or color, you aren't required to find some or all of those cards even if they're present; however, if you do choose to find cards, you must reveal those cards to all players. Even if you don't find any cards, you are still considered to have searched the zone.
     If you're simply searching for a quantity of cards, such as "a card" or "three cards," you must find that many cards (or as many as possible). These cards often aren't revealed.
Example: If an effect causes you to search a player's library for all duplicates of a particular card and remove them from the game, you may choose to leave some of them alone, but if an effect causes you to search your library for three cards and it contains at least three, you can't choose less than three.

[Odern420]

OK, that was really confusing... So, how am I suppose to word this ? Am I suppose to let the opponent look thought your library to remove all copies? And I still don't see the reasoning behind leaving and copy of a card that is suppose to be removed in your library.... cause if you try to play it, don't you forfeit the game ?

[Matt]

No. It is perfectly fine to fail to find what you looked for. There's no game loss at all.

There are a few situations where this comes into play. The best example is Gifts Ungiven: you can fail to find four cards with different names, and only grab two cards, and your opponent is forced to put those two in your graveyard. In this fashion Gifts Ungiven can be used as a double-Entomb (or single if you really want).

[Odern420]

but if the card says "remove all copies" and you dont remove the copies, then what happens when you try to play that card again ?

[Matt]

Nothing whatsoever.

[Odern420]

So, what your saying is, even though the card states you must remove all copies from your library, you don't have to, and then you can just play the remaining copies as if nothing happened ? I still understand how that is legal..... in order for you to use the ability you have to comply to the comand of the card.

[Norm4eva]

So, what your saying is, even though the card states you must remove all copies from your library, you don't have to, and then you can just play the remaining copies as if nothing happened ? I still understand how that is legal..... in order for you to use the ability you have to comply to the comand of the card.

It's legal because of human error.  Nobody's perfect and sometimes when searching, saying during a Haunting Echoes, cards get missed.  I used to play GW Madness like a fiend because I was a damn little kid during OBC and I can't tell you how many Monoblack Control decks refused to find cards like Phantom Flock and Glory.
Compliance with the card is necessary, yes, but the rules have defined what it means to 'search' for items, which the proper wording of your card would imply doing.  Go reading Matt's quote from the Comp. Rules again, maybe that'll clear things up.

[Odern420]

So should i make the "remove" part of the triggering cost ? make them remove in order to even set it off ? And maybe add, "If you dont, you lose the game" ? because that rule just seems stupid.... If a card says "remove all copies" you should have to remove all copies, and if you try to play a copy later , you should be penalized.

[Godder]

You could let an opponent conduct the search.

[Norm4eva]

It doesn't matter whether it's part of the cost or not, either; searching as a cost is no different than searching as an effect.  You also have then created a decidedly clunky card as it would require you to shuffle not once, but twice; once for the cost, once for the ability.  This would only really come into play against a player using Stifle, or a complete rules jerk, but there's a real pull to stay away from a multitude of shuffling effects.
It'd really be better for your cards if you just designed them to work in a less broken fashion.  This "remove all copies" idea is just inherently bad.  The guys are right though, Type 2 probably can't handle these unless they reprint something like Wasteland or lots of LD.