Katrina

[Vegeta2711]

Actually, she's in Alabama, and mentions that her place has been completely neglected because all the attention is on New Orleans.  I notified the NY Times about that page (not a lot of comments, so maybe not everyone knows about it), so maybe this can get some national attention.

Whoops, got my articles mixed up. Thanks for the correction.

[Magi]

oh man that's rough.

[Matt]

Why are they shooting at rescue workers? I mean I can understand the loosed prisoners not wanting to get reapprehended, but why would these people start fighting?

I read now that they were trying to get the resuce workers' attention, which makes a lot more sense. From the reports it seemed as if they were aiming at workers.

That class thing is SO stupid. It's not like these people's low incomes or minority race attracted the storm to them. What's that? Poor people were less prepared for the storm? Well that's true of poor people in ANY situation. They're not reporting on it because there's nothing to report.

Well, there is some egg on my face now, about the reporting: there seems to be an awful lot of reporting about race and class issues, though I still don't think that race and class had anything to do with the speed of the response. However, it's now clear to me that lower-income people got hurt a lot more by the storm because of their class - if you don't own a car, it's pretty hard to evacuate.

[dandan]

I am amazed that when I see coverage of this, there are cars all over New Orleans. Surely when you evacuate, you take the cars, don't you? Edit - the BBC has a good picture of a flooded bus lot with scores of buses, all unused for the evacuation

I am also shocked at some of the excuses from the authorities there ('We didn't know it was going to be as bad as it was' from the man who said on the Friday before the hurricane hit exactly what category of storm was expected, 'Who could have forecast the levees being breached?' from someone who presumably should have known what category of storms and water levels the levees could withstand, especially after training exercises in what do in the event of a breach, 'We came not long after we were asked to help' from a man who presumably would expect to do nothing if Washington got nuked unless he received an official request in triplicate). I particularly hated the 'We started to prepare, even before it became widely known how bad the effects of the hurricane were'='We started to prepare after the hurricane hit'.

It is crystal clear that the response to this hurricane was way too slow, initially inadequate and hampered by petty political (federal vs. state concerns, refusal to take foreign aid) issues.

Edit: The BBC puts it a lot better than me
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4216508.stm

[Matt]

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/012158.html

What a great story.

[Magi]

Posted by Paul in LA at September 5, 2005 05:14 PM

Bush went GOLFING on Friday.

If you're crying now, you ought to be SHOUTING next week.

This was in the replies.

What a derf.

[cssamerican]

I am amazed that when I see coverage of this, there are cars all over New Orleans. Surely when you evacuate, you take the cars, don't you? Edit - the BBC has a good picture of a flooded bus lot with scores of buses, all unused for the evacuation

Many families have more than one car; however, they usually just use one to evacuate. Seems dumb, I know, but we have had many false alarms due to the storm turning or weakening in the last 24 hours, and it is a real pain in the ass to try an drive one car out of New Orleans in an evacuation due to the limited ways in and out, much less two. Plus most people figure their insurance will cover it on the off chance something does happen to it.

Also I think the government screwed up by not offering bused evacuations, but as a lifetime resident of this state I can say with confidence, very few of the people left would have opted for that option if it was offered. So while it is possible some lives would have been saved (Which is obviously a good thing), I don't think that the situation we have now would be much different than it is currently, we would still have a quagmire.

I am not even upset by how long it took evacuations to occur after the flooding happened, simply because I know the area and what obstacles that had to deal with. What bothered me was the State Government refused to let food and water be brought in for the people who were stranded in the city. There is confirmed reports locally that the Red Cross and others had tons of food and water ready to go the morning after, but the State Government felt that it would tempt people to stay in the flooded city and prevented them from dropping those supplies to the thirsty and starving. There is just no excuse for that in my book.

[dandan]

I can understand a poor response, after all major natural disasters do tend to throw a spanner in most works, but going on TV and acting like everything is fine and that nobody could have foreseen stuff like the levees being breached in unforgivable. Anything run by the State is going to be inefficient but there is no need to treat people like idiots by denying the obvious (think back to Clinton!).

[Klep]

Also I think the government screwed up by not offering bused evacuations,

I just think it's important to point out that, contrary to the figure of "over 2,000" we've been hearing in the media recently, NO had fewer than 700 buses at its disposal to even attempt evacuations, with who knows how many of those inoperational.  Furthermore, city buses were used to get people to the Superdome before the storm hit, so it's not like they were all idle.

[Dr. Sylvan]

I have been having a field day with this meme, so I thought I would share it here, too: While I was just poking around the NYT historical database UIUC's library gives me access to, I picked the San Francisco earthquake of 1906 as a topic.

Not only was the federal government on the scene immediately, they even had 300 stewards' tents from Chicago and 200,000 rations on the train from another West coast base the day after, and another 200K the day after that. This was when SF, a city of about 400K (2000 New Orleans census: 485K), had more than half of its population homeless and 3,000-6,000 killed in a sudden natural disaster with much less warning than Katrina---and instead of being underwater, the whole city was on fire with people burning their own buildings to get insurance money they wouldn't get from just earthquake damage.

Apparently, they were faster 99 years ago in a disaster of almost the same scale, and much larger proportionate to the size of the country's population. Talk about getting outdone.

ALL SAN FRANCISCO MAY BURN; CLIFF HOUSE RESORT IN SEA
New York Times (1857. Apr 19, 1906. p. 1 (1 page)

"The city to-night in the face of appalling disaster, is fairly quiet and orderly. Liquor cannot be had anywhere and the formidable presence of Federal troops, militia, and naval reserves has had its effect on the element that might be disposed to be disorderly. [...] Artillerymen from the Presidio with their supply wagons and the army commissary wagons are aiding in getting the fleeing inhabitants and their baggage out of the threatened quarters."

DETAILS OF THE RELIEF.; Funston Says 200,000 Are Homeless -- The Government's Losses.
New York Times (1857-Current file). New York, N.Y.: Apr 20, 1906. p. 6 (1 page)

"Troops have been aiding police patrolling and maintaining order. [...] Working in conjunction with civil authorities. Have not interfered in the sending of any dispatches. You cannot send too many tents or rations. About 200,000 people homeless. Food very scarce. Provision houses all destroyed."
-telegram from General Funston, SF

"Confer with Gen. Funston at San Francisco, and if deemed desirable you are authorized to transfer to him any stores and provisions at the navy yard, keeping in view the necessities of the fleet."
-Sec. Navy to Mare Island Navy Yard in Vallejo, CA

"The War Department to-night directed the shipment of 300 stewards' tents from Fort Sheridan, Chicago to San Francisco. [...] President Roosevelt has issued instructions to the heads of the several departments that all possible assistance be rendered to the people of San Francisco.
   In response to his telegram of yesterday President Roosevelt to-day received the following dispatch from Gov. George C. Pardee of California:
   "The Mayor of San Francisco tells me he needs tentage, rations, bedding, and supplies for hundred thousand people. Can you order such supplies in from Government stations? Wire me Oakland."
   The President replied:
   "Telegram received. All available tents have already been ordered to San Francisco. Also rations. I have directed the Secretary of War to take at once the matter of bedding and supplies, and to do everything that you direct that it is in our power to do. THEODORE ROOSEVELT""

"Am shipping this afternoon 200,000 rations special train. Railroad promises to deliver early Saturday morning. Will ship 200,000 more rations special train tomorrow."
-Col. Davis, Commissary at Vancouver Barracks, WA

[dandan]

I note that the response to a hurricane hitting George Bush's state was much better.

[Limbo]

I note that the response to a hurricane hitting George Bush's state was much better.

Yeah, but it is not like the people would allow the state to fuck up twice in a month concerning the reaction to a hurricane...

[cssamerican]

I note that the response to a hurricane hitting George Bush's state was much better.

Rita barely grazed Texas. The eye came ashore in Lake Charles Louisiana so Texas got the weak side of a Category 2 Hurricane, which was extremely mild compared to Katrina. The media acted like Texas was getting the brunt of the storm because that is where it was first predicted to go; therefore, they placed all their people in the Houston-Galveston area. Then the storm took a northerly jog sooner than expected, and since the media didn't have anyone in the Lake Charles-Lafayette area, they had to to their best acting job to make what they had into a story. Hell, I saw more in Baton Rouge out my window (The far east side of the storm) then I saw in Houston Texas on TV.

In response to Dr. Sylvan I think it is probably safe to say the California Government probably didn't refuse help like the dumb asses that run my state. There was food, water, and medical supplies ready to go in Tuesday morning to the Superdome from the Red Cross and our State Government prevented them from delivering it. Everyone nationally seems to think the Federal Government drop the ball; however, most people in Louisiana are blaming local officials for incompetence. I think the reason for this is because we hear a lot more details of what actually happened. For example, the parish president of Jefferson Parish told this touching story about a friend's mother who was waiting for help that never came and she died on Friday. He was crying hysterically and everything, but as it turns out the story was complete bullshit...he made the whole thing up! I guess so he would get on TV and be remembered for the next governor's race or something. That is the kind of people running this state, that is why we are last in every national statistic that matters. That was only one example of many, beleive me when I say this has got to be the most corrupt state in the country.

[Matt]

[dandan]

Rita in Slovak means '(to your) ass' being the genative form of rit.